Chief Delphi - Defensive robots

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Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezion (Post 1541128)

How will they be scoring 35 points?

Individual scoring potential is not directly tied to the value of the robot. A kitbot on the right alliance is worth at least 35 points, maybe even 40. While netting points by removing direct offensive value to indirect defensive value can quite literally be a zero sum exercise in theory, in practice that is not always the case.

Theory can give you a great strategy but it does not win a lot of matches by itself.

Re: Defensive robots

I think standard shoving and shot blocking defense will be effective all the way up to champs. At high levels though, I think stealing balls and feeding will be the most effective role for a third bot. Especially if the two main scoring robots shoot from the outerworks and are unlockable. Of course at champs a repeat of the 2013 championship alliance can happen where all three robots are just unblockable cycle shooters and they just outscore everyone every match.

Re: Defensive robots

A hard defensive robot better know the rules.
You can still get points from secret passage by playing defense, but you can lose points by playing defense too close to the outerworks.
I'm not an advocate for defense this year but it is certainly possible. However one thing that I over looked at first is that if a defensive robot finds itself where a robot plans on landing after a breach it could take some serious damage. Defensive robots need to be built so well this year its kinda ridiculous.
If you run hard defense then I'd imagine you would be tailored ONLY for defense and play as maybe a sapper of some sort.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJohnston (Post 1541178)

How effective will a good defensive robot be?

It depends on what the robot is trying to defend. A cycling bot that specializes in going under the low bar, taking boulders from the secret passage and shooting from a specific sweet spot will be easy to shut down - the defender really just has to plant itself in the scoring bot's path the tremendously shut down its scoring capacity.

An offensive bot that can shoot accurately from multiple locations on the courtyard becomes more challenging to defend. If said robot can fire very quickly upon arriving at one of several different shooting locations should be able to score despite the best efforts of a good defender. If that offensive robot can also cross multiple defenses will be nearly impossible to stop.

In lower level competitions, yes a good defender will often be of extreme value. However, as the competition gets stronger, the value of defense - and therefore the tactics - much change. I suspect that the best defenders at higher levels of play will primarily focus on taking boulders away from the offense: Picking up missed shots and returning them to the other courtyard (or scoring them); stealing boulders from the secret passage; etc.)

I don't see a tall-lumbering defensive specialist with minimal scoring ability doing well past district level competitions...I anticipate that the ideal defensive bot at Champs will be a quick low-bar cycler with a fantastic intake that can run interference on defense and win races to loose boulders.

I agree, it will be important to see how three robots work together in the offensive zone and to see if they end up being productive or just get in each other's way. That will dictate strategy in the elims - whether it is better to use three offensive bots or two offensive bots and one defensive bot.

Just comes down the effectiveness of the strategies, week 1 will decide this.

Re: Defensive robots

I think you will see by week 3 that there will be a hybrid bot that can be 4ft tall and be able to shoot high low and go under low bar....its easier than you think once you start to think outside the box.

As for good defense in the first two and a half weeks I think just shoving will be enough, a lot of teams will be straight shooters and not have a turret design so simply hitting the front corner of a robot will be sufficient enough. Thus saying that defense bot will have to be fast and agile.

In the weeks following it will be blocker sticks like on 1114 in aerial assist and pool noodles like ultimate accent.

We are in the works of being a hybrid bot for our first regional in Arizona week 2 I think after people see our design it will be on every robot.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboAlum (Post 1541218)

Why week 3? I guarantee there will be a robot that fits your description week 1.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboAlum (Post 1541218)

In the weeks following it will be blocker sticks like on 1114 in aerial assist and pool noodles like ultimate accent.

Yeah, I think this could be another year of lots of blocker sticks, especially on robots without low bar.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1541179)

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were implying that a kitbot would SCORE 35 points, not be worth 35 points. Kitbots can serve uses to an alliance if posistioned properly.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginger Power (Post 1541237)

Why week 3? I guarantee there will be a robot that fits your description week 1.

I don't think there will be a bot who is both offensive and defensive as well as a low bar bot.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboAlum (Post 1541251)

I don't think there will be a bot who is both offensive and defensive as well as a low bar bot.

Our robot is Low Bar capable, capable of crossing every defense and playing defense. We can only shoot towards the low goal currently, but may work on modifying it to a high goal shooter if we get that chance.

I gaurantee you there will be a team that will design a robot that can do (almost) everything; offense, defense and low bar capable. Those teams have ingenuity.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilum40 (Post 1541092)

I'm a little concerned how a match that contains only "low bar" robots able to breach defenses without hanging will be anywhere competitive.

I disagree.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginger Power (Post 1541237)

Why week 3? I guarantee there will be a robot that fits your description week 1.

I cheat, I know there's one competing week 1.

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1541269)

I cheat, I know there's one competing week 1.

Same

Re: Defensive robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenGuy (Post 1541242)

Yeah, I think this could be another year of lots of blocker sticks, especially on robots without low bar.

I think that some robots that were designed for Low Bar will be cheesecaked to have tall blockers if there are alot of teams that shoot high goal shots along a low trajectory from the "safe zone" of the outerworks.

Re: Defensive robots

I'm of the impression that "good defensive robots" will be rare. In fact, for the most part, I see defensive robots being a liability to an alliance rather than helpful. There are so many protected areas of the field that I think they will be of limited use. Furthermore, teams capable of operating a defensive strategy effectively are more likely to play offense (that is, good teams won't concentrate their efforts on building defensive robots).