Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1541484)

With limited time in the game I do not see how a defensive bot shifts the odds in their alliance's favor overall. There are 16-18 scoring plays that either involve crossing a defense twice or cycling a SINGLE ball. All in 135 seconds. For either ranking or huge elimination points.

With only two bots that puts cycle times in into the danger zone to do 16-18 plays with 16 single actions that take 8.43 seconds average for one bot to complete 16.43 seconds for two bots 25.31 seconds for three bots working together.

16.43 average cycle is asking a lot of two bots to either cross a defense twice -or obtain a single boulder (perhaps from opponents castle location to your secret passage) and successfully deliver a boulder accurately to weaken the opponents castle again. OF course if every bot every time crossed and shot it would be more doable but still very difficult to ensure it happens every time with one bot let alone all three bots.

Also consider last 20 seconds is endgame time not a lot of scoring going on as teams are scrambling to get on batter and climb.

Its the same as 2014 just different, more to do and no obvious multiplier action, more single actions that all take time and I think a well coordinated team of 3 beats 2 and a defender...we'll see.

Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1541484)

With limited time in the game I do not see how a defensive bot shifts the odds in their alliance's favor overall. There are 16-18 scoring plays that either involve crossing a defense twice or cycling a SINGLE ball. All in 135 seconds. For either ranking or huge elimination points.

With only two bots that puts cycle times in into the danger zone to do 16-18 plays with 16 single actions that take 8.43 seconds average for one bot to complete 16.43 seconds for two bots 25.31 seconds for three bots working together.

16.43 average cycle is asking a lot of two bots to either cross a defense twice -or obtain a single boulder (perhaps from opponents castle location to your secret passage) and successfully deliver a boulder accurately to weaken the opponents castle again. OF course if every bot every time crossed and shot it would be more doable but still very difficult to ensure it happens every time with one bot let alone all three bots.

Also consider last 20 seconds is endgame time not a lot of scoring going on as teams are scrambling to get on batter and climb.

Its the same as 2014 just different, more to do and no obvious multiplier action, more single actions that all take time and I think a well coordinated team of 3 beats 2 and a defender...we'll see.

Originally Posted by Louisiana Jones (Post 1541590)

. Has there been any clarification on whether a defender can park behind a robot that has driven into the batter? A defender could effectively delay that robot indefinitely if legal. Not a bad tradeoff if the robot you block in is the other teams high scorer.

Originally Posted by Dezion (Post 1541104)

Considering that most high shooters also seem to be going underneath the low bar, it will be easy to block shots with the right design. I can't state how many robots will be designed for this, but those that are designed like this will probably go into eliminations. After a team has two good high shooters and breach bots, a defensive robot would be a great option for the last member of their alliance.

Defensive drivers will have to be cautious though as to not incur penalties (of course, all drivers should be cautious regardless of their posistion on the field.) Pinning an opposing robot and pinning too soon may be very common penalties for a defensive bot. As well, defensive drivers must ensure they are out of the courtyard in the last 20 seconds, which I would not believe to be too much of an issue, as they would more than likely have a scaling device, due to the fact they would not be under the constraints of the low bar (meaning, depending on their design, they would have to raise their robot less or it will br easier).

A strong breach bot may fall back to defense after most of the opposing alliance's defenses have been damaged. This would occur more often if the breach bot could not score a high goal. I know that this will probably be our teams strategy if we are not needed to continue scoring goals or crossing defenses.

For example, an alliance may have a robot that can do the Low Bar, Cat B, and Cat D; a robot that can do Low Bar, Cat B, and Cheval; and a third robot that can do all defenses (or the vast majority to qualify as a breach bot). The breach bot would damage all the defensss the other two could not do, then play defense. As the other two robots went and scored goals, they would go over the defenses that they can, breaching all defenses, and scoring.

Strategies that utilize each robots' strengths and makes up for their weakness through collaboration will be the ones that succeed and win.

Originally Posted by Type (Post 1541603)

I don't really want to talk that much about my teams strategy since we haven't finalized it but we were thinking for our robot we could cross all of the defenses (including low bar), then also shuttle balls back and forth in the process so a taller, more accurate shooter could shoot quicker and not have to traverse the defenses to get another ball. We designed our robot to shoot high goal but it may not be as effective as a taller shooter.

Originally Posted by Dezion (Post 1541592)

Refer to Q733 for clarification.

Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 1541333)

Yes, with a pool noodle, it will easily do the job.
That high goal opening is just way too small to have any kind of deflection not be effective.

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor (Post 1541690)

My point that is that the energy the boulder is carrying is related to the effectiveness of a blocker. We had a pretty significant interference in practice the other day and still hit a shot. A small action camera, heavier than a GoPro went flying across the room after being ripped off a mount and the ball still hit its target.

We attached PVC and strung across a t-shirt in 2013 and it worked pretty well as a deterrent, but that shooting position was pretty concrete. A team capable of shooting from the defenses from any position 1-5 can gain an advantage in that way. Also, if you can shoot quickly, it makes it harder. A robot that pops across and rips a ball off at the goal presents a scary defensive situation, because you have to basically guess at being out of range for penalties.

1747 has a pretty strong defensive legacy.

But that's just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor (Post 1541800)

This whole line of questioning is leading more towards a Q&A involving robots on top of other robots, which may be a startlingly common occurrence with all the short robots and the ready-made ramp that is the CDF. That is assuming someone decides to take the interference penalty(s) in trade for preventing a breach, which at some levels of play might be a possibility.

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1541688)

Care to provide a quote? Q733 is not included in the last Q&A PDF.

Originally Posted by Question

What constitutes as a pin in this year's game? Does the defensive robot have to initiate contact? If an offensive robot is on the tower battens trying to score in the tower and a defensive robot parks behind them without initiating contact and the offensive robot cannot get off the batten is this considered a pin?

Originally Posted by Answer

There's no FIRST Robotics Competition specific definition of "pinning." From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary: a pin can generally be defined as "to prevent or stop (someone or something) from moving." There is no requirement of contact for pinning to occur. While we cannot rule absolutely on hypothetical game scenarios, generally speaking, parking behind an opponent ROBOT that is on the BATTER would be considered pinning as the dividers on the BATTER, combined with the pinning ROBOT, would prevent the opponent from escaping.

Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 1541762)

A good question here now is what happens when the opposing alliance puts a team out of the 15" max extension. I dont think the answer is clear cut and dry unless I missed a rule. In the past, that was a subjective call.
Also, I know all about the defensive history. That's why I chose you in 2013.:)