------Tell me, do you feel more secure now that airports conduct random searches and prevent you from taking anything sharp onboard a plane? Sorry, I don't. Random searches are nothing but a PR stunt. On most of the flights I've taken, the people pulled aside have been white-haired old men and ladies. ------

I feel no safer because they're taking away sharp metal objects, but I know that there is no chance that a plane is going to be hijacked again, at least not successfully, unless the hijacker has something that will stop everyone on the plane. I feel safer because NO moron is going to rush the cockpit now. If anyone tried that, even if they had a gun and a knife, that person would be dead before he made it within 20 feet of the cockpit. People arent going to take any more crap, they're pissed off and if anyone tries that junk again, they're going to die.


-Just a thought.
Rob

Very good point. Maybe I should rephase what I said above. I do feel safer from terrorists on a plane. But if there is a mech./electrical problem on the plane...

I disagree. Sure people will attack someone if they think they're up to something, and I don't see why they didn't attack and take down the terrorists on September 11, all they had was box cutters... supposedly. It's still possible for someone to hijack a plane though, they'd just have to be ninja about it. I'm not quite sure what they've done with the cockpit doors, but if they could slit the pilots throats, the plane is pretty much screwed.

Yes I know, blah blah blah... but it is still just as possible.

EDIT: Deleted post myself. Could smell a fight brewing.

too bad
 

a simple request for a moment of silence (1. the absence or sound;stillness. 2. the absence or avoidance or speech of noise.) requires some to become so..ya i'd better edit too.

sorry, but everyone started saying their opinions and feelings, so i thought i might as well too. my school had a moment of silence today, and i respected it. but beyond that, i dunno, just read my first post...

In the vein of this thread, here's a quote from Benjamin Franklin that I don't hear nearly often enough;

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety''

Yes, he's white, he's rich, and he's dead, but in this case, he's also correct.

I do not need, nor see the significance of, any moments of silence, memorials, ceremonies, or fanfare in rememberance of this day; or those events.

I remember what happened every day; every moment. Always. I have seen the footage, the skyline, and the city. I have seen the people who lived, worked, and died there. The memory of those buildings, those people, and those ideals that have been ransacked, exploited, and bastardized since are fresh in my mind.

You'll understand, perhaps, why Jack's assertion in another (deleted?) thread that I should post a short reply to his message to show that I had actually thought about the events of one year ago angered and offended me so. There isn't a single day when I don't think about them.

Heaven forbid there be controversy surrounding a subject that's long been the trumpet of American solidarity, unity, and freedom.

Forgive me while I vomit.

In my mind, these services, memorials, moments of silence and tributes are an egregious insult to the memory of those who died unknowingly and without a chance to defend themselves. It mocks their memory, and their history, in the name of freedom, patriotism, and the United States of America. These ceremonies don't pay respect to the dead at all, but rather serve as an attempt to justify our country's own fear, arrogance, and fallibility.

I don't claim to understand what its like to have lost anyone on that day, or ever, for that matter. I am blessed in that respect. My intent lies not in disgracing the mourning of those so personally affected, but in criticizing and challenging everyone else to consider some of the other forces at play in our country - both before and after 9-11-01.

Fear, not patriotism, compassion, nor concern, drove millions to fly their American flag that day, and for months to follow. Fear of change, fear of improsperity, and most importantly, fear of a lessened quality of life fueled the fires of 'patriotism'. This was the same fear that drove Americans to assault other Americans in the following weeks, and the same fear that suddenly made 'racial profiling' the subject of serious consideration.

Furthermore, I have seen how everyone from the President to the University police at Stony Brook have perverted and capitalized upon the fear, insecurity, and misunderstanding that erupted on that day. Rather than use these events as a springboard for change, in foreign policy and domestic matters alike, the government, media, and American public have turned a deaf ear to the truth. They refuse, adamantly and with flags waving, to face the reality of their country's 'behind closed doors' policy-making, military and political action, and blatant propaganda campaigns. Their sympathy and outrage at the inhumanity of flying a loaded airliner into a building are put to pasture as suicide bombers kill people every day in the Middle East. Where was that humble sense of humanity during the Tiannamen Square events, or during the Civil Rights movement?

Nowhere to be found, largely.

In the past year, this country has begun to slip into a frightening mob rule mentality that the basic tenets of its foundation are designed to prevent. It's obvious, I think. Remember, though, that we live in a country with a voter turnout of less than 50% in most cases, and I think that's highly reflective of its reaction post-9-11. Things changed, certainly. The global economic climate was effected, and American foreign policy changed. The one thing that remained constant, however, was our people. They retained their arrogance, their entitlement, and their ignorance.

The mob took over. Stripping away basic rights outlined by the Constitution became okay, so long as you were a member of the flag-flying, Pledge-reciting, US-lovin' mob. Immigrants recognized this faster than anyone else, and likely because they had the benefit of realizing how life in this country is different. They, too, flew the flag, but not from the same fear that drove patriots. No, they flew the flag as a method of self-preservation, and with true respect for what this country used to stand for.

Political figures rode the wave of the mob, circumventing checks and balances, established precedent and laws, and ensuring the success of their careers and the solvency of their future.

Allow me to introduce a portion of a conversation I had recently with someone;

Julia: I've decided to donate 9.11% of all my orders through my online store from 9/11-10/11/02 to the Red Cross.
Julia: That might get some people interrested.
Me: in buying stuff?
Julia: yeah

That is the climate of this country. It's not new, it's not concerned about human rights, and it most certainly hasn't changed since these tragic events.

You all take your moment of silence. I'll use the opportunity to voice my opinions and exercise my rights - before I no longer have them.

I understand a lot of the posts that have been made, and as an American you have those rights. However, just a comment from me.... I am very religious, and in my mind, by having the moment of silence, I am somehow paying a bit of respect through silence and prayer.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Over 210,000 dead in the first year.

WTC attacks. About 3000 dead in the first year.

We memorialize the WTC attacks. We don't memorialize the nuclear attacks. Hmmmmmm.

true, but that was in retaliation of another cowardly sneak attack, which happened to be on troops, instead of inocent civilians.

We memmoralize WTC attakcs because we lost our people. The Nuclear attacks in japan we do not memmorialze b/c they attacked us @ Pearl Harbor. We do not reward those not deserving.

Japanese attacked us @ Pearl Harbor. We were Devastated. We Moved On. A Few months later we caught the Japanese off guard by Nuking Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. Pear harbor a Day which will Live in Infamy

2001 WTC attacked by Alqueda. Another sneak and low blow to the US. We were Devastated. We Moved On. The US will hunt down and kill all Terrorist Groups. Sept 11,2001 A day in which will live in Infamy.

All in all. Those who choose to try and take away our Freedom lose their right to live in my book. Any Country willing to attack the US and win has another thing coming. We will strike harder faster and much more efficiently. Thats my feeling on it. Attack if u wish be prepared for the outcome though. The results will surprise you.

Ok so Trash 20 broke it down.
I agree


We should not feel sorry for those who attacked us first.

Trashed:
I'm not sure I follow your logic. The nuclear attacks killed civilians too. I'm with MBiddy on this one. We all care about innocent lives, right? So why not give the deceased civilians that our military has killed the same respect and commemoration that our country has given to the victims of the terrorist attack? This is a point I hadn't thought of before, but it makes sense to me.

Although, I'm of the opinion that we should be paying more attention to our rights (or lack thereof at the moment) as citizens of this country (as well as Canada) as opposed to side-tracking our lives thinking about things that we had no control over that happened one year ago.

-Bill

PS -
Michael: Very nice posts.

<edit>
It doesn't make sense to me... just because a country or a group of people attacks and/or kills members of our military, I don't believe that gives our country lisence to kill civilians.
</edit>

<edit #2>
George W. Bush, John Ashcroft, and the rest of the U.S. Congress want to take away quite a few of our freedoms as American citizens. Read the Patriot Act. So they deserve to die?
</edit #2>

<edit #3>
Do you really believe this? How can you hunt down what you can't see? The world will never be rid of terrorism until the standard of living, and the value of human life that we have in this country and other "civilized" nations is replicated across the globe. This will take decades of hard work and determination, in addition to a copious sum of money. The way you defeat terrorism isn't by killing terrorists... it's by making people across the world content with their lives... by making them productive members of the world. But this logic isn't easily sold to those governments/people in the world who have large amounts of money, because it involves them parting with some percentage of their holdings. They feel that they can pass off the job to younger generations so that they can remain wealthy. It's human greed... we are so screwed...
</edit #3>

~500,000 American soldiers died in WWII.
~400,000 English soldiers and civilians died in WWII.

~20 million Russian soldiers died...

(If these figures are wrong, please alert me to this at once, thank you.)

I am of the opinion that America, as a whole (I speak for no individual), is a very self-centered state.

The values in American society can be observed by looking at some of the reactions to the Attacks (yeah, you know what I'm talking about). A main reaction to them was sorrow, and grief, for all who lost loved ones, which I can understand, I felt the same way. However, another distinct feeling was "patriotism".
I do not see how the actions of Islamic fundamentalists should make me want to serve my country. I am not a person who thinks war is a good thing, in general. I have a lot of opinions, but I pride myself on being openminded.

I'm going to give up writing this out. Too many complex ideas to transcribe... I've never been good at this type of thing. If you want to know what I think and how I feel, please contact me by some other means. AIM, Tigerbolt, whatever...

Ugh...

I'm saying that the Japanese started it, and knew that an attack was going to come. That was in war time, and we were in a war that they made us join. I'm not saying that civilians weren't killed in any attacks, im saying that hiroshima was in retaliation, while the twin towers was similar to pealr harbor (in being a surprize). Comparing the 2 i don't think is relevant. I am not discrediting anyone's lives as I believe that a person is a person no matter who they are.