Learn to type in proper English... I don't agree with you, and your lack of ability to read/write is really depressing.

ouch, little bit harsh there don't ya think?

Didja want to run that past me *one* more time?
 

Our people? So, exactly, what are your purporting here? Is is that Americans are better than anyone else because of birth circumstance, or because of race, religion, or government?

I'm a bit confused. Surely, you're not suggesting that the life of a Japanese person is any less valuable than your own.

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The Nuclear attacks in japan we do not memmorialze b/c they attacked us @ Pearl Harbor. We do not reward those not deserving. Japanese attacked us @ Pearl Harbor. We were Devastated. We Moved On. A Few months later we caught the Japanese off guard by Nuking Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. Pear harbor a Day which will Live in Infamy.

A few months? The first atomic bomb dropped on Japan was on August 6, 1945. Just shy of 4 YEARS later. There's a significant difference.

There are myriad reasons why the United States used the atomic bomb during World War II. We didn't catch anyone off-guard. Read the Potsdam Declaration, please. It says, essentially, that Japan should surrender immediately or we'll beat the snot out of them.

The casualties that would've occurred during an amphibious assault of the Japanese mainland would've been astronomical; assuming that the United States would've succeeded at all.

Further, the atomic bomb was dropped on two cities - populated by civilians. These were not strategic military targets in any sense beyond the message these acts sent to the world.

First, it showed that the United States had won the race to the nuclear age, and was now capable of unleashing wanton, rampant destruction. This was most important, of course, and eventually caused Japan's surrender.

Second, and nearly equally importantly, it sent a clear warning to the Soviet Union (our ally, at the time) that we were not to be messed with. This had as much to do with maintaining our position as a fledgling world superpower as it did with ending World War II.

It was not, however, about retaliation, deserved or otherwise. It was about sending a clear, concise, fearful message. Terror. Terrorism. While it was done under the declaration of war, the motivation does not change.

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2001 WTC attacked by Alqueda. Another sneak and low blow to the US. We were Devastated. We Moved On. The US will hunt down and kill all Terrorist Groups. Sept 11,2001 A day in which will live in Infamy.

In 1991, the United States cut off electricity and water supply to Iraq, killing over 100,000 civilians.

In Nicaragua, the United States supported a coup to overthrow a democratically elected government. Where does your freedom stand there? This isn't about freedom. It's about politics.

In 1945, the United States killed over 200,000 civilians to send a message. The only reason we don't consider it terrorism is because it'd be pretty hard to live with ourselves, and certainly impossible to justify the zealot-like steadfastness that our government and our populace have shown toward those who 'wronged us'.

What you, and they, don't realize is that the reason we were attacked in the first place is precisely because of that attitude - that apathy toward the world socio-political climate, and the arrogant assumption that we can and should overpower anyone or anything that doesn't match our philosophy.

Oh. Pre 9-11, that attitude was more subdued than it is now. When this country needed humility, it displayed hubris. When this country needed acceptance, it displayed arrogance. The American public was so shocked to learn that they were so admonished. Who was really caught off-guard? It wasn't the Japanese. It was us, and it was our fault.

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All in all. Those who choose to try and take away our Freedom lose their right to live in my book.

Perhaps you need to take a long, hard, critical look at your neighbor. Recently, a poll showed that 40% of Americans (that's 4 of 10 people, to make it more intimate, of course) feel that our First Amendment rights go too far. Perhaps you should lend a critical eye on our President, who's signed into law legislation that strips away our basic rights to privacy. The terrorists didn't need to do anything to take away our rights, really, because they had the forsight and intelligence to realize we'd do it ourselves.

The mob rules.

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Any Country willing to attack the US and win has another thing coming. We will strike harder faster and much more efficiently. Thats my feeling on it. Attack if u wish be prepared for the outcome though. The results will surprise you.

The results don't surprise anyone. Afghanistan, Iraq, and Al Qaeda all realize that warfare with the United States is an exercise in futility. What nobody seems to realize however, is that the destruction has reached far further than the 16 or so acres of the World Trade Center site, and the attacks continue, each and every day, as our country slowly crumbles, collapses, and eventually destroys itself.

Who needs guns when you have fear?

Let's keep the focus of this thread to it's intended purpose yeah?

1st: There is a great debate that America had knowledge of the attack on Pearl Harbor before it happened...why do people say that? Its simple, America was caught in the middle of the Great Depression and a war time economy would bring about the end of the depression era when partnered the New Deal policies of FDR.

2nd: It took a few more then a few month to drop the bomb on Japan because of some 'lil place known as Europe and some guy named Hitler :rolleyes:

3rd: The US admits its nearly impossible to hunt down and kill ALL terrorist groups

4th: many countries don't engage the US in war. Look at the wars of the past: Korea, Vietnam, Dessert Storm, Dessert Fox, WWI, War of 1812 (if memory serves me right...which it rarely does) are results of the US either being agressive or issueing warning and then haveing to back them up.

5th: Remember Iraq was an ally of the US during its war with Iran (just had to throw that in there)

The final thing I have to say is that the Nuclear bombs only killed civilians. Although the cities were producing military supplies they did not have adequate materials to produce them.
-Evan

p.s. And people wonder why I'm happy to be from Manhattan

um, guys, i believe that Hiroshima was a stratgic city to destroy. i have heard that it was second in the line of command. that means, if tokyo was taken, or destroyed, the 'center' of japan would become Hiroshima. therefore, Hiroshima was a legit military target, under the whole rules of war (which really makes no sense if you think about it, but that's another topic). if i'm wrong correct me, cause i don't remember where i heard this.

This thread should not be a debate over Hiroshima. Does robomama want to step in and say something?

ROFL!!!

...beside the fact that it was POPULATED BY CIVILIANS.

That's all I have to say.

i forget which city it was but, either Hiroshima or Nagasaki was bombed as a result of the target city having a heavy cloud cover

Fat Man, the second atomic bombed dropped on Japan, was originally for Kokura. That city was covered by haze, and the bomb was redirected to Nagasaki.

That was August 9, 1945.

With all due respect, Sandrag, I strongly believe that we should let a discussion flow. I'm here to see opposing viewpoints, do a bit of educating, and maybe even learn a few things in the process. If we narrowly adhere to short description that is the title of each thread, I fear we'll stifle our development, discussion, and education.

Ian - while Hiroshima may have held some military significance, the prime reason for dropping the bomb was wholly symbolic. Military benefit was a justification rather than a cause, in this case.

I am so proud of you all for expressing yourselves boldly. Whether I agree with you all or not, I respect you for having the guts to honestly speak your minds.

Out of respect for Robomama's origional post, I have posted a new thread where you ladies and gentlemen my debate your issues. It is entitled "Patriotism and Politics"


Thank you as well Sanddrag for reminding us about the origional purpose of this particular thread.

I'm so proud of you kids!

Everyone loves a good argument. I have many points I could make but I'll only make a couple.

You say Japan attacked the US. Japan didn't attack, the Japanese government did. The citizens of Japan knew nothing about the attack. On a side note, Hawaii wasn't even part of the US when it was attacked.

And... it's what parents always tell you, and what teachers always tell you, and what the law always tells you, and what all other people of authority tell you.....

"Fighting doesn't solve anything."

So why don't people practice this? What does blowing people up actually solve? If someone hits you, and you hit back, and they get knocked down, they're going to be even more pissed when they get back up. Maybe they'll get their friends to back them up next time. How about if poor Peter and Sally get in the way when the big guys are fighting?

Of course people are too thickheaded for a warless world to actually happen. Dumasses.*

* It's pronounced Do-mas ;)

and so once again i opened my big mouth causing a peaceful thread to go into debate over why we actually bombed japan and why they came after us so on and so far. as a catholic i believe that no one person should die because of retaliation. as an american i feel that yes freedoms were taken; our privacy went out the window so that US can make sure we don't get attacked again. no matter what you do though to prevent an attack. its still is going to happen thats why it would be called inevitable. where theres a will theres a way.


the last post i did here pretty much would be my teachers personality that if you attack us u deserve to die. my personality is different. those who are innocent and died w/o cause should be honored. and i firmly believe that from time to time the US sticks its nose in other countries business a lil to much causing us to get into more trouble then we were b4.

once again i apologize for turning this thread upside down.

Hiroshima hiroshima hiroshima

Does no one remember Dresden?

We droped 700,000 phosphorus bombs on a city of 1.2 million, turning the great city into a great firestorm.
250,000 bodies were counted. Estimates range upwards of 500,000 dead.

In one night.

90,000 to 125,000 died instantly in Hiroshima from the blast,


"Precision saturation bombing" we called it. Always did like them precision strikes. The second wave was 3 hours later, and killed many as they were leaving shelters and trying to rescure others.

No one remembers Dresden. :(

Perl Harbor was attacked December 7th, 1941.
Hiroshima was bombed on August 6th, 1945. (45 months later)
We did not catch them off guard. We told them, stop the war or we WILL destroy a city. And in the middle of a war, the bombing of Japan had become rahter regular.


Freedom is precious. I have and will continute to stand up and defend it. I have and will continue to protest the unconstitutional actions the current administration is taking. I will use my voting power this comming election. I have and will continue to write letters to my congressmen expressing my views on the priceless value of ALL American freedoms.


September 11th
We havn't forgotten.
We will never forget.


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/me is listening to E:\Carbon Leaf\Echo echo\Carbon Leaf - 12 - Toy Soldiers.mp3

Too true... I seem to have found the same piece that Wetzel cited...

In my book, the US government doesn't have a pristine record, when it comes to international affairs... Right now, off the top of my head, I can name two people, whom the US government consider immediate threats to national security, and our safety, but who were also, at one point (two, because these people are independant of one another) supported by the US government, either monetarilly, tactically, or by means of equipment (though it's by no means limited to these). These two people seem to be rather popular, at the moment...

Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden...

Think it's crazy? Well, it was.

Under Reagan, the DIA (Defence Intelligence Agency) "provided detailed information on Iranian deployments, tactical battle planning, plans for airstrikes and bomb-damage assessments" to Saddam Hussein, in support of anti-Iranian actions.

As for Osama bin Laden...
http://www.library.cornell.edu/colld...ast/lacost.htm


Horray for the Cold War! Without it, this world would be a different place!

...though probably for the better