Part of the reason Hiroshima was chosen is it was a small japanese town, so the civilian casualties would be lower than if, say, Tokyo were bombed. Also, as many people don't know about Dresden, so to do many people not know that Japan bombed the continental US BEFORE we declared war, before pearl harbor. That's right, many people say we have never been attacked on our home soil after the civil war and before 9/11, but that's not true. The government asked reporters not to mention it in the papers so the public didn't find out about it, and as a result, the Japanese thought that it wasn't effective and stopped the bombing (and in reality, it wasn't effective). Maybe I can dig up a link later. Anyway, just trying to get all the facts out.

Now, onto modern times. The major problem I see with America is the mentality of "If it doesn't effect me, I don't want to know about it." The public rationalizes "I'm not a terrorist, so the Patriot act doesn't effect me." They say "I live in America, the middle east is complicated, why should I care about foreign policy?" And, this is why we have the problems Micheal has so well defined--People, in general, don't care. They say they have patriotism, but to them that means not questioning the government. I say it means the opposite.

Stephen

umm....No.
That is completly wrong.

Japan never bombed the continental United States.

A few days before Pearl Harbor, the Japanese foreign minister was in Washington talking of peace.
Another thing, FDR was looking for a way into the war to help England. Lend-lease was all the public opinion would allow, until Pearl Harbor.

I am starting to believe all the studies saying that American students today are ignorant of history.

gar

Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~~
/me is listening to E:\David Bowie\David Bowie - Moonage Daydream.mp3

Agreed.

I am fairly certain I am correct. The Japenese put bombs on parachutes, and let them drift through the jet stream to the US. As I said before, it was not very effective. I did not back myself up with a source, so I can understand your response, however. I'm in class right now, but when I get home I'll get a link for you.

Stephen

[edit]
Ok, here's a link for you.


And here's the relevant material:
[/edit]

You'll note, however, two things.

First, 6 people were killed. Ever. Further, if those people hadn't gone pokin' around, they'd be fine. Not a single forest fire was started by these bombs.

Second, this occurred in the final moments of World War II, in 1945. Of course, this was well after the United States declared war on Japan.

I'm also confused about its relevance.

I want to point out one quote in that: "Fighting doesn't solve anything." Now, try telling that to the people of Carthage. Wait a second, you can't. Carthage was wiped out by the Romans. Okay, a more modern version: lets tell all Americans that. Of course, if there wasn't any fighting, there would be no Americans to tell that too: Britain would still own us. You could try telling the Confederecy that. Then we realize that the Civil War eliminated the confederacy. How about telling the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that fighting never solves anything. Then we get to the point made several times in this thread: they were both nuked and destroyed. What people fail to realize is that the US is the only country in the world to ever use a nuclear weapon. And I agree with Ian: the US has been the most agressive country since WW2. So saying that violence never solves anything is the worlds biggest lie. You ever think that if extraterrestrials visited this planet, they'd think we're savages and give up on us?

And I am not a do-mas!

Oh really? I'm going to go and kill all the people I don't like now because I now know it will solve my problems. Fighting causes more problems buddy. The Japanese military bombed Pearl Harbor, we blew them up as a response. That sure solved their problems with us didn't it? Actually I have no idea what I'm talking about, I just think hurting people is bad. Actually, what does it matter? We're all just some atoms and stuff put together a certain way right? So killing people doesn't matter right? Nothing matters any. I like pasta. MOO MOO I'm debating about war and fighting and such and in a thread intended to show respect to people who lost their lives MOO MOO!!! WAR IS BAD!!! STOP THE FLAME WAR!!! EVERYONE IS RIGHT!!! Peace.

***silence***

Hey, I said violence solves everything. I never said that was a good thing.

Violence does not turn world opinion in your favor.
Violence does not stop the violence.


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~
DDR 5th Mix - Right Now

Hmm... I agree, for the most part, but I also believe in being specific...

When one nation, organization, or state instigates violence against another nation, organization, or state, I would say that "world opionion" typically would sway away from the aggressor (though I don't think this sort of thing is absolutely predictable). If you're the aggressee, then one might argue that "world opinion" would sway in your favor.

As for violence not stopping violence, I can see a possible end of the Cold War that would have stopped all the violence... Violence used as a tool is despicable, in my humble opinion, though I'm sure one could come up with a variety of situations where I might rethink that statement...

I'm sorry, Wetzel. I know what you meant. I just have an inane habit of picking apart language...

I hadn't heard about Dresden until is was mentioned here, but even though there were massive casualties, they can't match up to Hiroshima, in my opinion.

700,000 phosphorus bombs killed about 500,000 people. that's not even a 1 to 1 ratio of bombs to people.

Just Little Boy killed about 70,000 from the initial blast and about 70,000 more from radiation burns and poisoning and aftermath effects. That's a 140,000 to 1 ratio.

Hiroshima was just 1 bomb. Dresden was hundreds of planeloads of bombs (or at least a whole lot of planes.).

I realize that the nuclear attack situation was probably necessary to avoid massive invasion casualties for both sides, and it ended the war. It doesn't matter that it was in times of war. I think just the whole nuking thing should be enough to have some kind of memorial "Nuking in Bad" date just to show why no one has been attacked with nuclear weapons after WW2. When you drop a nuke, you REALLY have to mean it.

Well, this thread has gotten so broad that I don't feel like commenting the topics brought up, even though I have strong opinions about them. What I do wanna comment is how surprised and pleased I am with some people's replies: it's great to see that some people aren't blinded by America's power and realize how this power is being used against other countries in the world, sometimes causing violent responses from those countries.
To finish, I wanna say that, if 1/4 of America's young population is formed by smart, open minded people like Michael Krass, by the time those people get in the government the world relation with United States will be severely improved, helping to stop all this anger that is aimed at your country.

Just an opinion from a proud citizen from a "country in development".

:)

Manoel:
What's sad is that the majority of those smart and open minded young people that live in this country will be too disillusioned with our government to serve in it.

*Sigh* Sorry Robomama, I tried. I feel I've done my duty, so back to the stimulating commentary. I just can't sit back and say nothing to all of this.


Too true......But there is hope.

I had a friend that often repeated the phrase, "Be the change."
What he meant was, that if you wanted to see a change in society, start by being an example yourself, like Mr Krass.

Be strong. don't give up. We need you.