FIRST hinting at 2003 Game???
 

I was reading through the veteran and rookie section on the FIRST website and found what I belive are clues to this years game....

1. In the rookie section paragrah one the say "ramp up". Is this just FIRST's own way of saying getting ready or are they hinting that there will be some sort of a ramp returning to the 2003 game?

2. In both sections when mentioning Gracious Professionalism they mention:
"...through its team members balancing competition..." Again is this just wording or is it a hint that the aspect of balancing will be returning to the game?

Jay

Hmmm... interesting... I guess we'll have to wait and see! :D

- Katie

... 114 days til kick off ...

I think you're just flakier than dried potato mix :D

If you look at the team forum notes, FIRST already confirmed that field is flat with no obstructions. Further more they also revealed that this year's field will not be rectangular.

They could be referring to the 2001 game. I don't really know.

i wouldnt mind seeing a balancing act return in 2003. that was probably the hardest thing most teams could do since a majority of teams went with treads rather then wheels. .

when did they mention changing the dimensions of the field? is the shape change a pretty much guarantee? w00t!

I really hated the balancing act, I had to pick up the robot with the arms to many times, and the fields were very inconsistent.

I would like to see obstructions. It would make the game more exciting. Zones work too but that shouldn't be the whole focus of the game like Zone Zeal.

I never heard the comment about field shape or obstructions before but from all the "facts" posted on these boards we have the following so far:

Spectator and TV friendly
Not rectangluar
No field obstructions
(other facts???)

Keep in mind that the following must also be considered:

Cost
Ease of assembly - disassembly
Durability

Can anyone derive a playing field from this little information we have? Possibly a bi-level section. Will there even be the same idea for goals? Only on January 4 will we know .

Also look at near the end of both sections of those pages where it says "This dynamic tension" Hmmmm. Could their be a spring loaded door/bridge/etc? I think we're on to something here.

I also had thought that FIRST had pretty much guaranteed us that the field dimensions were to stay the same for the most part from year to year. This may become an issue because there are many teams with limited space when it comes to creating the field. I know that RAGE has barely enough room for this years field. How are we supposed to create a new one if it is going to be larger? That would mean that our donated practice facility/ meeting facility would be half useless, especially because most of the building is done at one of the high schools. And I know since our facility is be donated to us and the relator(sp?) still has it up for lease that they definitly will not allow us to do any major construction/destruction jobs. As it is now to get to the practice room from the meeting room you have to go throught the bathroom. And when we had asked if we could make a door in between the two places they immediately shot the idea down. So they would definitly would say no to allowing us to tear down some walls to accomidate a field. So basically what i am saying is that it will probably be a pain in the arse to try and get any of the high schools let us use the gym etc. to practice in. And i hope that FIRST decides against this bad idea.

Ha. We have never had an arena. We used 2 half-built goals, a peice of carpet, and a large wooden frame. (The large wooden frame was a very crude and unstable player station :P)

It _could_ be possible that they do something like this:

If my drawing is too crappy, they may just put barriers in the old arena to change the shape. *shrug*

I doubt that would happen due to visibility problems...stupid spectators :)

wow... you people have way too much free time, i just wanna wait till the 4th to find out!!


Badjokeguy

Could be triangular, and still leave room for spectators.

I meant for it to be equilateral, but I'm sure you get the idea.

So has it actually been officialy said that the field will not be rectangular this year?

A new shape would be sweet! And throw the hp's out of the player station! Give them their own again!!! :D

I hope there will be an elevated "driver's stand" or alliance station. Even a foot or two above the field would be much easier to see what's on the other side of the ramp, goal, etc.

Hhmmmm. I had heard we were going back to a hexagon-shaped field (Dean's favorite shape - just look at his house), with four different levels and a moat. I could find that believable, but I am not sure about the aligators in the moat...

-dave

I heard that the field would be octagonal (sp?) in shape.

Mike Rush (an extremely gifted engineer and an outstanding guy) made an interesting observation last year at LA. We were gathering ideas for the Arizona Regional and he made the observation that the field size and shape would stay the same because so many teams now have fields. He also said that the robots would stay the same size so the spectators (whose numbers are growing) would be able to watch all the action.

Every fall for the past five years, I have tried to figure out the new game and every year the "Twisted" minds at FIRST come up with something I never expected. Keep the guesses coming. They make the time until 1-4-03 go quicker.

Ken Loyd

The playing field is going to have a moat with alligators!? WOOO! (Sorry...it's late...and you ended your parentheses too early :D)

Sweet!!

And the driver station is over the moat, right? Of course, the alligators have to be fed, so a trapdoor opens and the losing team's drivers become lunch.

Ok this could just be my crazy patriotism showing through, but what about a pentagon shaped field???
Do you think any of the future first games will have a patriotic theme and or dedication to the shape of the pentagon due to 9-11??? Just a thought......

Hmmmm......It's a nice thought. But I kinda doubt it since there weren't any people at DEKA (Dean's company accross the street from FIRST) that we know of that did anything special (moment of silence etc.) on 9-11. On the other hand, the people at DEKA are so obsessed with their work, that they hardly notice anything going on in the outside world.

FIRST might be a little different considering their contact with the teen element now that I think about it.

Not a bad idea Mr. Clock.

A hexagonal field. Hmm it could be robotic sumo if its a cirular shaped field but what would be the fun in that unless the robots are autonamous.

I've been listnening to you guys for a little while, perhaps I can be of some assitance:
I WAS AT THE FORUM!
Ha.
Ok sorry.
SInce I got to prticipate in FIRSTS First Summer Camp, We also got to hear the rusults from the Forum event. The Forum was a time where Rep's from first came in and answered questions, as well as listned to convers/comments from team leaders.
I can confim the following:
1. The music will still make your ears bleed:
FIRST Has made it clear that, and I do quote, "Dean Likes His Music Loud. It Keeps the crowd excited and brings a certain energy to the competition."
2. (Ok, you might actually make something of this one) The Game will be very simple:
Let me start out with a story:
Since Dean had such a fun time at kickoff not directly answering teams questions, the Nationals turned into a nightmare. Because of this, FIRST is kicking him in the Butt. Now, instead of Dean Coming up with the game every year, there is now a Game Commitee within first, Assigned to come up with the game each year. Dean will be included, however the comitte will have more influce, and will be watching dean with hawk's eyes.
Since the Past few yeas have been a bit complex (especially for rookies), first has said that the 2003 season's game will be simple. Here's another Quote:
"Dean Kamen's Mother should be able to enter an elevator with another person, and explain the 2003 season's game before the exit to their destination." It was noted that this was on a basis of an average 5 minutes.
Now, that's 2 things for you, here's number 3 (And I Don't like it):
There is the Possibility that there will be no Pneumatics.
Yep. It's true folks. First has said that since the events of 9/11 they have had a strain on money, and that Pneumatics may be out of the picture if they continue to have money issues.
So, Think of it like this:
A game that has been made by a "Comitte" of people (who haven't made a FIRST game before), that can be explained in roughly 5 minutes, and might not involve pneumatics.
I know it's a tough cookie to chew guys, but this is the Face of FIRST you don't see.
Now:
I'm NOT saying that first will not have a different field and the possibility of the teeter-totter, ect. Think about it, you can still use all those field elements with just motors...
And you could make a fairly simple game with them.
So, beware 2003 teams. We are now being ruled by a New Kind of FIRST...

HeHe.
Sorry about all the spelling mistakes, I try to type REALLY fast. Just ignore them...

BREAKING NEWS GUYS
Sure Enough, I beleive you were right on the Ball about FIRST hinting! If you look under the Veteran Info you will find this:

"To those of you who attended our Team Forums, we want you to know that we have listened to your feedback and are implementing many of your suggestions. We hope you find the following introductory information evidence of that. "

That Introductory information could also lead to the Rookie Section...
I think we are on to something guys, and we ought to examine more FIRST resources a little more closely...
Here's a good question to ask:
Has anyone noticed FIRST hinting the game in earlier years?

I'm assuming you mean a little more in advance than during the kickoff but before the game is actually revealed?? Or even before they hand out a parts list like they did last year???

Personally I find this is no big deal. Just convert whatever extra motors you have into linear acuators. Most of the stuff we used on our robot that involed pneumatics last year probably could have been replaced with a motor alternative.

Yeah, I know. But still Pneumatics are a little more fun to tinker with :) (Gives more of a challenge)

Pneumatics
 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

They can't take away my pneumatics! Not after I've devised my MASTER PLAN (R) that took six months to perfect on paper, let alone test mechanically... Dean can't do that to me. I might die or something...

By the way, pneumatics are faster and can maintain constant pressure better than a motor and linear system.

Enough with whales, Save the PNEUMATICS!

-Paid for by the Save the PNEUMATICS! foundation, LLC-

Yeeeeesssss another Pneumatics Beleiver!
I think that if First can't get enough for Bimba, they might look into other companies...
I sure hope so.
(PS, your plan wouldn't happen to have been an arm, would it.... I spent summer doing that as well.....)

Save the PNEUMATICS! foundation?

I thought that the game was always devised by a commitee of like college students or something like that????:confused:

i beleive the game is thought up by a bunch of professors from MIT and people that work for FIRST. any misinformation... sorry

I have always thought that the games were devised by a group of old men with excess kegs of beer and way too much time on their hands simply to agrivate the youth of today.

KL

interesting idea i think i is possible although i cant really picture Woody drunk

/me likes pneumatics

Don't take them away from us!!

:(

- Katie

i like pneumatics to but to make something NEW they can take away pneumatics AS long as they replace it with some more/new motors.

Yeah ... but you can do some things with pneumatics that motors can't replace - think of what we did this year, heehee. Remember the arguement about our caster being pneumatic or on a lead screw? Remember why pneumatics won...? :) Maybe FIRST can keep pneumatics [u]and[/a] put some new motors in! I'm sure that would make almost everybody happy!

- Katie

no pneumatics whats the FIRST world coming to. Pneumatics is every teams favorite because its fun to use and program. i can not see my robot using a motor to shoot out an arm. just can't. Im in on the Save the Pneumatics Foundation

true.
SAVE THE PNEUMATICS!!!:D

Hey, we could serously like try to help raise money and donate it to FIRST for Pneumatics?
Heh. I'd be a little wierd, but we could like ask FIRST how much they could use, and then divide it among the teams...

some of us don't even have enough money to convince the school to let us exist

Here's another one of those "some of us." How 'bout you donate the money to my team?

Hey I was just kidding. Geez, I'll have to be more carful about what I say; You guys take me too seriously...

i couldn't see first taking away pneumatics. They are so useful, and they are HUGELY used in 'real' robots

Sachiel7: No, my supreme pneumatic plan does not involve an arm per say, though it can be adapted to such, It's really versatile, and you'll see it here FIRST. ** Bad pun action, I know, but I can't resist a bad pun when I see one. :p ** Pneumatics will live on. Save the PNEUMATICS!

Last Year
 

I remember that last year one of my team mates pointed out to me that a team had found out the game early and built their robot early. So if we can remember who that is, then we should be able to find out the game. But then again, we might just wreck Dean's fun in trying to surprise us. I'm waiting till the kickoff, I consider it a 13 day early b-day preasent.

Re: Last Year
 

I highly doubt this.

remember
 

FIRST can always do last minute changes to their schedule. I wouldnt worry about the balancing or etc. Youl figure it out eventually.... start finding ways to make reliable systems for a good gear system/ driving system, or just start attracting some sponsors to ur team.....

I still think robots that can't move but are placed stationary on the field at the start of every match would be cool. Just think, it would level the playingfield for those teams that haven't spent 11 years of competition perfecting their drive systems. ;)

Giant dueling arms reaching across the field. How exciting.

Of course, we'd need to keep the pneumatics, and we might need more motors...

Ohh the possibilities!

It might be cool, but to an outsider to robotics (and if you were explaning the game to someone) it would seem rather boring. Having the robots move will always be a part of the game (i think).

Look at 71's 'walking' bot from last year. One dosn't need wheels/track to move. All you need is an idea

I think a game without motion would lead to more such creativity. More innovation. The Beatty Bot still blows my mind every time I see it. (I wish I had gotten to see it in person).

I know FIRST would never adopt such a game, because as you said it's "boring" to most normal people. I think the new TV oriented FIRST is a good idea, and I love exciting games (2001 just always seemed a little off). But I think a stationary game would be an interesting challenge.

~JVN
Team Leader
Clarkson University
FIRST Robotics - Team 229
"Division By Zero"

omg therese a diffrent game this year?!?!?!?! why?@?!?!?!
ive got the bestest idea evar on how to win now!!!!!!!111
sorry

Work on shock absorbers. There will be bots that go airborne this year. Anyone want to make a bet?
Ramps involved. Wheelchair like to another level or scoring area.

Remember, Dean uses FIRST as a think tank for ideas on how to solve real world problems.

Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~
It dosn't have to make sense.
Its a rumor.
::Shifty Eyes::

My thoughts exactly.

I really don't know...
 

I see these quotes as possible hints- but they also sound just like natural speach

Like a trap door?
a trap door would totally rule... but i don't know...

Or maybe it's like a halved field with a door... highly unlikely, but still cool...

You've got to keep in mind, FIRST has no money ... ... ...

- Katie

Ok, the conversation has taken a left turn, but I'm commenting on the start of the thread.

I've been here since 1996.

1992—Maize Craze

1993—Rug Rage

1994—Tower Power (i think this was a hexagon field)

1995—Ramp n' Roll (Definantly not a hexagon)

1996—Hexagon Havoc (Hexagon field, it was my favorite Name)

1997—Torroid Terror (hexagon)

1998—Ladder Logic (Hexagon, final year (for Now))

1999—Double Trouble (first rectangular field, but not final dimensions)

2000—Co-Opertition FIRST (Rectangular field)

2001—Diabolical Dynamics (Rectangular field)

2002 - Zone Zeal (4th year of rectangular field, 3rd year in this dimension)

Anyone else seeing a pattern?

My guess (well...really a hope)
 

I think the scoring objects should be Krispy Kreme donuts.
Maybe a hundred of them on platforms/tables around the field which have to sorted into dozens of regular glazed, sprinkled, or filling.
If the donuts are passed by the robot to the human player, bonus points for all the donuts they eat before the time runs out.

only major change is that "post" high school aged people should be allowed to be human players.

Seriously - it would increase teamwork (I know I'd help the human players on the other alliance or mine).

Being a human player, i don't know how many krispy creme doughnuts i can ear

Re: My guess (well...really a hope)
 

That might actually kill Dave....:eek:
I'm sure he'd like it though.:D


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And having to use them every meeting for pratice..
:)

Re: My guess (well...really a hope)
 

OH MY GOD YES PLEASE! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!




(dave faints in anticipation of a sugar rush the likes of which the world has rarely seen...)

easy fella, don't get your donuts in an uproar!!!

KrispyKreams are an uproar!!! Bring on the glazed!!!

Ken Loyd
Team 64

hmm.....how about human players be on segways (Dean said FIRST would be on Segways sooner than we think)

Pneumatics actually aren't used very much on real industrial robots because of accuracy, payload, & safety, right now we only use them on weld guns, and eventually those will be changed out for servo weld guns as technology allows. For the accuracy we require, we use electric servo's. In fact modern day robots get a bad rap from the old hydraulic days where a broken hose would cause the robot to take off out of control, servos will not.

water.. definately ;)

I was thinking whipped cream, but I guess water's okay, too...

If you see me walking around looking disappointed at a comp, it's because there's no whipped cream on the field...

:(

There can be whipped cream on the field...

/me exhibits shifty eyes


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~
It's a non-functional decoration, I swear!

*blinks*
 

that could be insanitary.:yikes: