Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

Take a step back for a moment. The life of an adult (mentor) is quite a bit different than the life of a student. The last thing you do to a volunteer who is spending their own time to help is to tell them they aren't doing enough. I don't want to come down hard on you, but you seem pretty thankless toward folks who just spent 6 weeks devoting all their free time to helping you.

While 15 minutes, 30 minutes, or even 1 hour may not mean much to you, that's the difference between seeing my kids and wife or not seeing them (I get home 15 minutes before their bed times). Likewise, as an engineer, I have to be in at work at hours that blow most team members minds. 1 hour is the difference between getting some sleep or continuing to accrue a sleep deficit that ends up with me getting sick at least once a season.

Take it easy on your mentors. Make it fun so they come back, and try to develop MORE of them so you don't burn out the ones you have.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

As an insanely dedicated mentor on 1678, I have this to say. I have lost too much sleep this season to remember how much sleep I have lost. I'm certainly on the younger side of FRC mentors, but it really just comes down to what each person is able to take on. Everyone has a different level of personal bandwidth for their lives and sometimes they just can't do everything, so they have to choose where their energy goes. Most people tend to favor older commitments and obligations and there is nothing wrong with that.

I work at a job where I can tell my boss that I am taking a day off for robotics and it's no big deal. I can come into work between 5 and 10am work 8 hours and leave for the day. My boss understands how important the team is to my life and that my mentoring continues to push the bounds of my knowledge and skill as an engineer. I am so ridiculously lucky and thankful as an employee, but not everyone can have or find that level of flexibility in their lives.

When I lost my wife in 2013 I was lost as person and I just needed something to focus my energy on to distract myself from having lost her. So I made the decision to help people, do something I was good at, and surround myself with people who care about me. And with that decision I poured my heart and soul into mentoring 1678 and making as much impact as I could. I believe that most of the fanatically dedicated mentors out there have similarly profound emotions in regards to their teams and FRC. So I guess my point is that it's always a complex and personal issue where someone decides to spend their time and with whom.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

We have had similar issues this year. At the end of the day, mentors are usually under appreciated. Believe it or not, mentors are REAL PEOPLE and have lives. Be grateful for the time they give you. For next year, I would talk with them BEFORE build season to create a rough timeline so you know the time you have and the speed you need to work. Maybe overtime if they see your dedication, they will naturally dedicate themselves more as well. I wish there was a magical answer to give your team the support they need but this is just something you will need to work around. Most importantly don't treat your mentors like they aren't doing enough. sass and attitude will make things worse. Hope everything works out with your robot
- Andrew

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

I apologize in advance for those that will not agree with what I am about to write and if you have issues: be aware on this I speak for myself.

I -REALLY- dislike that the 6 week build season opens up mentors to criticism that they don't 'spend enough time' with their students. It's frankly insulting and sometimes actually dangerous to the scale of the opportunity mentoring presents and I think it hurts people sometimes physically.

I am personally a very busy person and it is possible that a personal crisis for me could have a global economic impact. During a build season I often have to pick between simply finding 10 minutes to do anything and going to help someone. Then I take the chance that when I go there: now I can help, but maybe the students have other priorities. Worse I spread around my e-mail, try to get on Slack, check ChiefDelphi and yet I have noticed that people do not consider me available to help unless I am physically present at a place that reduces my access to the Internet in such a way that I am then in jeopardy of creating personal risk. Even more frustrating if I get interrupted while I am there, again, who am I to have responsibilities.

I manage engineering teams on an International level. Do you think it would be acceptable for them not to work unless I am standing on top of them? Has anyone seen my name or any of my company logo on any MORT robot, or any FRC robot at all, despite my money pouring into FIRST on and off for 20 years? I often don't even get a receipt for my donations and I am hardly the only one.

The only thing I have come to dislike more than this 6 week build season over the 20 years I've been involved with FIRST is that it's -NOT- really a 6 week build season at all. So it's not like telling the people that depend on me outside of FIRST it's -just- 6 weeks is true. No it's easily 20-30 weeks for me with periods of much lower activity during the summer because we run into April and we start up again in September.

-THIS- is the reason I have decided to be more a sponsor and mentor in a less 'always on way'. I personally refuse to accept the pretense of the 6 week build season any more. It may work for some of you but this is toxic to me. I can rally my resources to build a Makerspace with the necessary resources to work whenever it is possible in a year. Freeing myself to actually have a life. I can still give FIRST money and volunteer. Heck I can even create opportunity for the students like this they don't have now.

At least this new approach for me allows me to think of this in hours committed to mentoring versus hours being dragged into a crisis beyond my control with implications far beyond the understanding of other people.

I don't know the OPs team. I do not know how many other commitments to FIRST your mentors may or many not have. However at least for me I do know that Mount Olive High School is now one of the few, possibly the only school anywhere, that hosts jrFLL, FLL, FTC, FRC and has 2 FRC teams in the same school. So to my fellow mentors and students that read this and for those outside of our MAR circle: when you think someone is just not giving up enough - it is a commendable thing to sacrifice for another in little ways (a meal, a hug, a trip to the store in your car) let alone bleed for them, often in silence, as I have seen some mentors do. Just never you mind if you win - it is often literally that you tried at all and if more people gave just a little this world would be a better place. Some of us have time, some of us have money, some of us are just positive people to be around - whatever the balance of the sacrifice is - this should not be about a few people cleaning up the mess of millions.

Signed,
The digital janitor

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

Before you ask others for their time, make sure you are maximizing the time you already have. If that isn't enough then consider looking ahead and saying "well we aren't meeting these goals so we should see if we can stay later do any mentors have any time in the future that they can stay later." Sometimes mentors say no because they can't not because they want to.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

As a student I never really appreciated just how hard it was to be a mentor while working full time. Let me tell you, it's freaking exhausting. And if I saw students whining "oh they don't put in enough time" I'd quit. In fact, if I were your mentors and I saw this thread, I'd probably quit.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

The easy solution to this is recruit more mentors. The school could be a road block, but more mentors would probably solve your human capacity issue.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

Sounds easy.
The town of Walton had 1,049 citizens in 2010. It is a rural community; Lewis Cass posted a population of 718 students last year across the six grades in the school.

The struggle is real, but there are options.

There are several teams within a short drive of 5402 headquarters. I have found all of the Howard and Cass County teams to be very helpful and friendly. Feel free to reach out to them for any assistance you may need.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

If you are just looking for more time to build I would have to agree with Ryan, try getting the parents involved. Not all mentors need to have an engineering background, they just need to keep the team on task, safe and quell any personal conflicts. The engineering mentors can provide guidance before they leave for the day.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

So, your mentors don't want to stay late? You should thank them for being there at all, not complain about them not meeting your expectations. If you only have 3 hours a day to work on the robot, then you plan accordingly and work smart and quickly with the time you do have.

Remember that your mentors are people too usually with lives outside of FRC that they would to at least maintain during build season.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

I have to agree with everything listed above....

I am one of those insane teachers who puts in way too much time with the club. Consider:

There are 24 x 7 = 168 hours in a week.
Teaching takes 60 of those hours
I put in another 50 with robotics during build/competition season

This leaves me with about 58 hours a week...Let's say I try to sleep 5 hrs a night... I now have 13 hours a week to:
Talk to my wife
Spend time with my kids
Help around the house (chores, repairs)
Eat
Relax
Oh... I do have few friends, too...

What do I get paid? $2000 for the year... This does not cover the extra I spend on gas and meals out...

One of the biggest challenges of keeping FRC teams going is finding enough mentors to keep it all moving without burning them out.

Be kind to you mentors. They are exhausted and you need them.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

Agreed MrJ but I don’t get a stipend. It is all volunteer on my end.
OP I can only speak for my team and myself. I am a teacher and the only school related team leader. We have three engineering mentors. I am in my 9th year of FRC and our mentors have been with us for at least five. In past seasons we have all been of the mindset, 'Let them work until...' This year is different for us and I am going to tell you why.

Last year more and more often I would look up at 9 or 10 to see engineers working and students playing games. Two of our mentors have children. One of them has a daughter who has had medical issues since she was born and last year was diagnosed with Asperger; to top it off he is a full time engineer AND working on his Master’s Degree. By the end of build season last year he was exhausted.

Over the summer the mentors and I came to some decisions about build season schedule this year. Originally it was supposed to simply transform to, 'if you are playing then go home'. Then my personal life blew apart in October and November so badly that we almost did not field a team this year. My mother-in-law died of cancer in October. In November my husband was diagnosed with cancer. I struggled with my decision on what to do with team this year. I wanted to take a break but my husband insisted that we field a team because he knows how much it means to the kids; kids just like you. I agreed on one condition; build season schedule was drastically altered. Instead of working ‘until’ they got 4 – 6 M – F and then 10 – 5 on Saturday. I told the team up front and was honest with them and they understood. I stayed late with them on a total of three nights this year; two week nights until 7 and one Friday until 10. I have fought teenage drama between some team members worse this year than most. I am already tired from teaching roughly 100 students per day, sick with worry about my husband who is still working full-time and gets home more and more tired every day, and to top it off have been fighting a cold myself the past two weeks.

On Monday I sent an email to the parents and formally told my team that for the first time ever I will not be able to attend our only competition event with them because about that time my husband will be undergoing 4.5 weeks of radiation therapy. I will not leave him to go through that alone for one day let alone three. I love my team but right now my family has to come first.

I understand that you don’t feel heard by your mentors. I understand that you don’t feel like these mentors are as ‘dedicated’ as your mentor last year because they haven’t stayed late. But please ask yourself and your team these questions;

1. 1. What happened to your mentor who would ‘stay until’ last year? Did they move schools or just leave the team? If they just left the team then why? Was it because they didn’t feel appreciated or that their time was valued?
2. 2. What is going on in the lives of the mentors that you currently have? Is there something that maybe you guys don’t know?
3. 3. Is your team using their time with the mentors wisely?
4. 4. Do you realize that your teacher mentors have jobs that require a tremendous amount of time outside the school day to plan for the next school day and grade assignments? None of that happens in a vacuum. The time we spend planning, grading assignments, and attending required conferences is insane.

I do not mean for this to be a rant OP I just want you to look at this from a mentor perspective. I want you and your team to open your minds and hearts to what you may not know about your mentors. How many times did any of your team leave early or not come to a build meeting to study for a major test the next day?

TLDR; Have your or your team taken the time to really understand the lives of your mentors and what is happening in them? Do they have a sick family member? Do they have a child involved in activities that they don’t want to miss? Do they have big projects going on at work? We are people just like you and the decisions we make impact our families, teams, and jobs. We do this because we love this. We do this for you. Please, try to understand the toll this takes on us personally because every moment we spend with you is a moment we are missing in the lives of our spouses, children, grandchildren and other loved ones.

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

3 mentors is not enough to effectively run a team. You'll want to pull more mentors into the fold and find a way to get mentors personally invested in your team.

I don't know how your team operates, but I've noticed increasing intrusions from smartphones and other devices. As a mentor this infuriates me. Your mentors may feel that "if the students waste all of their time during build season, I don't want to stay late to help them make up for it." Would you continue to invest in a company if they squandered your initial investment?

This may not be the issue at all... just a possible one.

There may also be more going on behind the scenes that you don't/won't know about. Mentors have been threatened with divorce, gotten extremely ill, fallen behind at work, etc due to their time commitments on FRC teams.

Remember that it is MUCH easier to be a student on an FRC team than a mentor. However hard the season has been on you as a student, imagine at least double that challenge for your mentors. I say this having been a student for four years and a full-time mentor for six.

The way it has worked for us in the New England district is we get the unbag time the week before the event. Now the matches do not start until Saturday morning for us, and load in isn't until 5:00 pm that Friday, and pits are open till either 8:00 or 10:00 depending on venue

Re: Mentors not wanting to stay
 

I can only wholeheartedly endorse this sentiment. Do your team parents believe that the program is a babysitting service, or are they willing to put effort into raising their children? The strongest indicator of educational success is parental involvement. If the parents are not willing to get involved, then the program is less likely to be successful. Check with the school district about screening parents (in California it requires getting fingerprinted). I started as a parent and have continued on.