OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Yesterday during our six hour unbag window we were working on our competition bot and ran into issues with our wifi disconnecting. We found that when the robot would get bumped, the wifi would disconnect. First we thought this was surely a wiring issue. We checked all connections and they were all good. We let the radio sit undisturbed for a bit and after about 80 seconds the wifi dropped out. We then decided to replace the VRM in case that was the issue. We still experienced the same issue. Have any other teams experienced similar issues? It is to be noted the radio never lost power...the lights remained lit on the radio the entire time. One thing we do question is that our wifi light never lights on our radio.

This radio had previously been used on a test electronics panel and did not exhibit any wifi drops. We finally gave up and ordered a new radio as we are competing at a week one event.

We are very frustrated because instead of finishing up the competition bot we wasted 2/3 of our unbag time on troubleshooting the radio.

We are looking for any kind of suggestions at this point. We left the radio out of the bag to continue testing on in hopes of a solution.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Is the radio near a battery or a lot of metal. Try exposing it more.

Check all connections maybe test it on a robot from another year.

Are you running on the 2.4ghz band or 5ghz band?

Are your battery terminals all secure?

Also, I do not know if leaving your radio out of your bag after the fact is legal. I am going to let some people with more knowledge comment for sure but its worth noting.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Thanks for the input, but the radio exhibits the same behavior completely outside of the bot.

I'm not sure how the first configuration tool sets up the radio, but I'm guessing we configured for 2.4

Definitely not a battery issue as the unit never loses power

Also the radio is a COTS item so it is completely legal to leave out of the bag.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Can you post the log file, or image of the file loaded in the viewer?

The school network is pretty crowded, the DS laptops only do 2.4, and sometimes the OpenMesh decides to setup house on channel 9, or 4. This leads to lots of retransmissions on wifi and to bursts of packet loss that would cause the robot to be disabled and disconnected.

A wifi channel scanner app will help you identify whether the channel is the problem. Mac laptops have this built in. Connect to the robot and option-click on the wifi symbol. It will list how it connected to the robot. But this may not be how the DS laptop is connected. If you choose to Open Wireless Diagnostics, then go to the Windows menu, you can choose Scan and see both the 2.4 and/or 5 channel that the AP is on, and you can compare it to the others in the area.

Greg McKaskle

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Greg I will look into this tomorrow night as we have a work session, but I highly doubt wifi congestion is the cause as we are in a rural area and have never had issues with robot wifi before.

Also I forgot to mention once wifi drops out it take approximately 2 minutes to reappear.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

It may be worth running ipconfig when this happens and again when it comes back. You can also try ipconfig /renew while disconnected. With it taking two minutes, I'm curious if the laptop and router are not doing what they should to get your laptop an IP.

Greg McKaskle

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Will try that as well. Fairly certain it is not the laptop as we monitored the wifi with several devices. Thanks for all the good suggestions

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Not too sure about that, it is definitely a grey area.
As a team going to a regional I could not a week early dive into our bag and take out the radio to troubleshoot. If you had the radio out of the bag to begin with I would have a different opinion but IMO its not in the spirit of the rules.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

I am well aware of the rules. We are in a district system. Please read the rules.

I am also well aware of the rules and aware you guys are in a district system. What I am also aware of is the fact that it says no where in the rule book that you can un bag your robot and take out parts to troubleshoot with.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

In the week leading up to district events, district teams are allowed to take the robot out of the bag for 6 hours. And, if I look up team 222, they have a week 1 district event, so what they have done is completely legal. If them counting it as part of the withholding allowance is what is bothering you, they essentially have returned it to its KOP state, and if that is a 'gray area', consider that they could consider it part of their static set of 30 pounds, and they just originally bagged part of their withholding allowance.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Please don't quote something as fact if you haven't read the manual.

Please see the administration manual under section 5.5. "Robot Access Period"

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

5.5 “Robot Access Period” – For Teams Attending District
Events
Two-day district events for the 2016 season include:

■ Mid-Atlantic Robotics District (DE, NJ, Eastern PA)

Teams attending these events will not have as much time to work on their robots at events as teams
attending traditional three-day regional events. Due to this, teams are granted an additional “Robot Access
Period” to un-bag their robot between the “Stop Build Day” and their two-day district events.
Teams attending Traditional Regional Events are NOT granted a “Robot Access Period” after
“Stop Build Day.” This section only applies to teams attending district events
.
5.5.1 ‘Robot Access Period’ - Permitted Actions

During the Robot Access Period, teams may perform any activity they would normally do during the build
season, including practicing with the robot.

5.5.2 ‘Robot Access Period’ - Schedule
Teams may unlock their robot for a total of six (6) hours during the 7-day period preceding any two-day event in which their team will be competing with their robot. The six hours may be broken up in any way the team wishes, with the exception that no single access period may be shorter than two (2) hours. The robot must be locked up in between sessions and this must be documented on the Robot Lock-up Form each time.

I do not see an exception anywhere allowing you to remove COTS parts from a robot bag during an access period. I had no problem calling it a grey area but, you can not simply say its completely legal without either a Q/A ruling or a rule in the manual.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

If they had originally bagged it as their withholding allowance I would have a very different opinion. I think they should have left the radio in the bag. As, I cant legally reach into the bag a week before my regional event and take the radio out to fix it.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

The Robot Access Period is a replacement for the practice day at a traditional 3-day regional. As the manual states, teams may do anything they would normally do during Build Season during the Robot Access Period. This includes adding, removing, and replacing parts. The radio is also a COTS part, and it does not count against the Withholding Allowance.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

yea but, if this was a practice day at a regional a team would not have a week to fix an issue with a part.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

I don't even understand why people care... Honestly I'd rather have these guys ready to go and kick butt vs spend the entire day debugging a radio...

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

I do agree with that. I also think Bag day should be revised. But, that is a discussion for a different thread.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Then there is no need to post that information here, we should keep posting about how to fix their issue. I'm sure many teams will have radio issues this year.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Please let's get this back on topic. Thank you to those who have already made helpful suggestions.

Also don't worry the radio in question will not end up on the competition bot as we would never trust it for competition.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Could there be a loose connection inside the radio?

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Everybody seems to be ignoring this clue.

You're sure the green light doesn't come on at the end of the radio boot sequence? That would mean the OM5P either is not properly configured, or is just plain broken.

I'd start by making doubly certain that the firmware and configuration are correct. Then I'd take apart the router and look for debris or damage.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

The wifi light never came on during our robot access period.

We did take apart the router and found no issues or metal chips.

We did notice that the router was "singing". I am not sure if that is normal or not.

The students did update the firmware. We will have to double check to make sure it was done correct.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Update: We have tried just about all the suggestions so far. We wired the radio into our practice bot and are now 99% sure we have a defective radio. We left the radio completely alone and it would stay connected as long as we wanted. The original 80 second time was probably due to somebody that was holding the radio moving. If we tapped on the center of the front of the radio we could instantly cause a reboot state on the radio. The tap that caused the reboot takes less force than it takes to click my mouse button. Reboot time of the radio in case anybody is wondering is one minute twenty seven seconds.


We took the radio apart looking for loose connections and everything seemed good.

At this point we are dead ducks sitting in the water hoping Andymark ships our replacement in time for our week one competition. :eek:

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Hey Cliff - have CC'd you on a PM connecting you with the CSA at Mt Olive this weekend....he's planning on having extra spares available so hopefully no matter what happens you'll get up and running. I'm CSA'ing at Hatboro so won't be there but I'm sure there will be plenty of help to get you up and running. Best of luck!

- Ron
Team #2607 controls mentor

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Thanks Ron!

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Again Thanks for everybody's help. Fedex delivered our new OM5P yesterday and everything seems good to go. We also contacted open mesh and we are sending the problem unit back to them in exchange for a new unit.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Now THAT is awesome!
Glad to see Open Mesh is standing behind their product.

You must admit, we don't really treat these radios as they were intended. I really doubt the design team ever considered mounting these on a mobile platform and pounding the snot out of them.

Maybe it is time for FIRST to consider creating design specs for a radio and seeing if anyone would be willing to manufacture something specific to our needs. Something secure, and can handle LOTS of shock load!

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

The unit we had had no run time on it. It was installed on the robot, but it had never been driven.

Our team is less than impressed with the new radio this year. The power connection is at best weak, takes longer to connect than the previous radio.
Here is to hoping andymark vex or cross the road makes a radio meant for our application.
Imagine a small chassis radio like this years, but with waggo connections, and a zip tie mounting option.
One can dream.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

I would like to echo the problems that camtunkpa and dradel are experiencing with these radios. We are having very similar problems with these radios being finicky when the robot moves around (like going over a defense). Two out of three of our radios are experience this issue. I am hoping that Open Mesh can solve this issue. Not liking these radios so far.

UPDATE: After extensive testing it seems that our issue was a loose wire connecting to the VRM which was causing the radio to drop the connection.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

We attended our first event this weekend and while we had not noticed an issue with our radio, the inspectors told us it was defective and handed us a loaner.
Now we have to BUY (???) a new radio due to a defect. Is this something that is being covered by FIRST? If so where do I need to go to get one?

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

Thanks for the update Deeek!
I have a feeling many teams may be having this same issue. This game will expose those problems really quickly. Finding the root cause is another issue entirely.

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

I saw this (and similar issues) with tons of teams at the Northern Lights regionals.

When an FTA(A) or CSA tell you that your radio lost power during a match, the first thing you should check is your VRM and radio power wires. I had a few teams who thought this meant they just needed to add more electrical tape to hold their radio's power plug in place on the radio, but the power kept dropping out because the wires were shorting out.

Double check:

• You have the radio plugged into the 12v, 2 amp rail (one team had it on 12v 500mA)
• There is no copper showing on the VRM's power wires or the radio's power into the VRM
• The above wires are also securely inserted into the terminals

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

We are having a similar problem with our practice bot (and our comp. bot before bagging). Whenever we hit a bump, coms is lost for 4-5 seconds and the ethernet lights go out on the rio. Oddly, the Axis camera, which connects to the other port on the OM5P continues streaming without interruption.

Our workaround is to swap ports on the OM5P. Now the rio stays connected after bumps, but the camera drops out for a bit. Really strange that one port seems to have a loose connection on two radios. Anyone else have this issue?

Re: OM5P-AP wifi dropping out
 

A dropout of 5 seconds sounds like an ethernet cable or loss of link. See if wiggling and tugging either end of the cable causes the link light go out. Try a different cable too.

We have certainly seen roboRIO ports broken off the board, but not often. I haven't seen whether the OpenMesh is soldered through the board or to the board. See if either one of them wiggles within the device and causes the issue.

Please let us know what you find.

Greg McKaskle