Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

I don't disagree with this but I don't think it is the right analogy. If the self-driving car engineers had come up with a self driving jet pack it would be amazing and cool and not what they were asked to do. I am all for trying to find crazy ways to play the game and coming up with really innovative mechanisms and designs that are fantastic and effective. And honestly I don't think a team that put two robots in the bag with the intent of one being spare parts for the other did anything wrong at all. It's pretty brilliant, particularly for a game as rugged as this one is likely to be.

In this situation, and in pretty much every situation where we start a discussion like this about what is the right way to do things or what is fair in FRC, I think about what makes the competition fun and exciting for the most people. The mission of the organization (in regards to FRC) is to change the culture by providing a competition that makes STEM exciting and fun for high school students. So while I do think FIRST is not necessarily setting out to make things "fair" they have pretty solid reason to keep things "fair enough" that people (kids and mentors) stay interested.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

So the rest of your robot weighed about 30lbs?

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

Anything they built at the event didn't count in the weight allowance.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

2 drive rails + electronics panel weighs what maybe 30lbs + 30lbs from withholding, so that means they build about 50-60lbs at an event?

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

tyvm for adding the emoji

Since I wasn't at that event and I assume you were, could you tell us if 1815 came to the event with the deflector in their crate or not?

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

This is possible, but no one did. They just made variations to fit there existing robot. It wasn't like can grabbers or mini bots ramps, it required a full design change.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

Definitely possible. I watched 836 bring in a ton of raw materials to Chesapeake last year and completely rebuild their robot. They practiced building it at home so they knew exactly what they needed to do.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

I believe you are missing the point. With a bag day, yes it was hard to do. Without a bag day it becomes all to feasible.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

Paynes initial comment was with "Bag Time".

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

Why dont you just drop the "feasible" thing and say what you are wanting to. You are hiding "they will do it" behind the word feasible.

Just because they can, doesnt mean they will. Nor could most.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWHw...ature=youtu.be

Here's 118's robot. Show me your design for a similar version of what they did that is equally as effective if not more effective than their solution. You have four weeks.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

Nevermind, I got it now.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

30lbs of fabricated parts is allowed to be brought in, most of the robot is COTS now a days. Motors, gearboxes, pneumatics, etc. We used some pieces from the previous "robot" but mostly just as raw material because it was powder coated. The total robot weight was about 90lbs last year.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

You are absolutely right. But it only takes a couple successful copies to start changing FIRST's culture from a make our own design decisions to, lets just copy the robot. That shift has already started to happen. For example:

Minibots/233's deployment 2011
Stingers 2012
10 point hangers 2013
Goalie poles/33's hulahoop 2014
Cangrabbers/intakes 2015

You are completely entitled to your opinion, I just feel differently.

My answer to you is: (feel free to sub out 1114 for any xxxx team you feel like)

Also, since this isn't legal for an FRC game, I don't forsee any team taking you up on this offer to copy 118 (or any robot), spending plenty of manhours and thousands of dollars for an illegal robot just to prove you wrong.

Re: Team Update 14 (2016)
 

DITTO!!

Sorry to derail this... but I can't help myself

I didn't used to be in favor of this, but these past two seasons have really made me re-think my position. I'm tired of raising money for VEX, AndyMark, and McMaster. Don't get me wrong, I love these vendors but the amount of extra parts we purchase to build multiple robots and to also have spare parts is getting ridiculous. This money could be used to help pay for student travel to competition, tools, etc... But we do it to stay competitive and it extends our build season.

For the first time this year, we planned on developing a "scaling" system post bag n tag. We figure after the first couple weeks of competition, we will be able to better determine which method is easiest, lightest, and reliable. So the "bag n tag" restriction isn't really a restriction since you have withholding allowance.

Bag-n-tag is keeping underfunded teams from being competitive. My team is practicing at a location setup by another team that doesn't have resources to build second bot. They unlock the facility for us and watch us practice, which is incredibly gracious of them, but I feel bad for them... they need to practice too!

Get rid of "bag & tag" / "stop build day"... it has lost the significance it used to have.