Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

I've been hopping between a few feeds today and I'm seeing quite a few violations on the field...

• One spy had powered signaling devices (gloves with blinky lights) that he turned off after the match
• A robot that starts it's climb by jacking up the back of it's frame by a foot to get the right angle to the bar (R22)
• Various and sundry team members crossing defenses during match reset that don't get caught
• A fair number of illegal bumper numbers (Blue on Blue background?) (R28)
• Major structural failure of robot causing bumpers to be dragging, but not DISABLED (R19-1)

Be careful out there teams, and notify your alliance partners if you see a violation, even if they get away with it. This is not a request for tattling, but more of a GP request to make sure the playing field is fair and safe. Future alliance partners will thank you.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

To add to the list, I saw several instances of:

• Extending higher than 4'6" before the final 20 seconds. At least once, a team had finished scaling before 20 seconds left. That 30 second noise is to warn you that 20 seconds is coming up people.
• Robots exiting an opponent's courtyard through the secret passage. The only legal way in AND out of the opponent's courtyard is over a defense.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Well, technically, you can exit their courtyard to their secret passage, but your point is taken.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

GDC should've yellow striped the secret passage border that's not courtyard adjacent, then called it the SECRET ENTRANCE. Then that rule would've been much easier to understand.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

At least one tower capture that was credited even though at least one robot was not able to stay on the batter at the conclusion of the match (couldn't quite see if another one that rolled back managed to hang on the lip). Saw many credits for a challenge that way as well.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Were their bumper numbers outlined in white? This would be allowed per rule R28-A.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Maybe? The numbers may have been clear enough in person to satisfy the rules, but they were hard to read know the webcast.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

I would have a hard time believing they would be able to pass inspection if they weren't outlined. Additionally, the refs should be able to spot a violation and report it to the LRI to have the issue taken care of.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

WOW!! They just announced the correction of the invalid capture from Match 6 at GTCR that I was referencing...~23 hours later.

Mulling over internally how I feel about that and would like to know what the information that led to the deliberation was in regards to changing it after the fact. Was it initiated entirely by the ref crew via notes of talking the match over later?

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Wasn't on a webcast but I witnessed a robot running a pair of linear actuators with illegal motors all day today.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

how do you know they were illegal?

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

They openly told me the motors came with the actators, they were not dart actuators, and they were clearly not an frc approved motor

EDIT: See related picture - http://i.imgur.com/5Rod9e6.jpg

On a related note, the climber the actuators were attached to gave the alliance the 10 points they needed to win the final match of the event.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

That's unfortunate. The inspectors should have caught that.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

I watched a cast where I couldn't tell if it was me being fatigued, or if the spy was actually wearing gloves which emitted light.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

It was initiated entirely by the refs via match notes. The head ref individually reviewed that match (among many others) overnight and discussed it with the rest of the crew the next morning. There was no team input at any stage.

Hopefully that alleviates any concerns you might have.

How were they allowed to play in elims with illegal motors? Did you bring it up to the inspectors or the referees?

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Must be an automotive motor.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

It was brought to the attention of inspectors during the course of eliminations, who, after a brief check of the robot in question, examined the manual, discussed it amongst themselves, and subsequently opted to take no action. Why they chose not to I can only speculate.

I would love to see the car that has a linear actuator on it.


I'm not trying to point fingers at the team in this case, my guess is they just didn't know any better, but if inspectors cannot identify illegal motors or can but choose to not intervene, there's a problem somewhere.

Also, I'm pretty sure the actuator in question is one of these, and per the discussion in this thread, could be used but only if the motor was switched out for an FRC legal motor and the internal switches bypassed.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Can't say it's too hard to figure out who the team is...

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

It is worth noting that my team was NOT competing at this competition, I was just there as a spectator. And like I said, my beef is not with the team, it's that the inspectors allowed a robot with illegal motors onto the field that may have given it's alliance an unfair advantage.

To be honest, the alliance probably would have won the event anyways, they had put up enough points in previous matches that the mechanism didn't make any difference in the outcome, had the match been replayed, even with the mechanism disabled, the outcome probably would have been the same.

I guess it's more the principle of it than anything, and that if something so obvious like a motor that CLEARLY looks nothing like any legal FRC motor is allowed to play for an entire competition, what else are teams getting away with? On top of that, now this team may think that their robot has nothing wrong with it, so when they go on to their next event and an inspector does catch it, they'll have to scramble to find a fix instead of having time during the out of bag window to deal with it.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Ye I saw countless fouls that were never called. Which would be ok if it was like that every game but then you get some games with 40 points in fouls..... There is just no consistency. the refs can directly determine the outcome of games and regional winners completely depending on how many fouls they chose to call... or not call....

I don't know how much of a factor volunteer bias is but that may also be a possible factor

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

While not fouls, during the end of elims at west valley a couple teams lost their bumper numbers.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Here is an example of a legal automotive linear actuator motor.

It is much smaller than the device in question, but I thought you might love to see it :D

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

We shot a ball straight up and out (driver hit button inadvertently) it was not called a foul.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

I think it more getting used to the game rules. The refs got much better the second day in SD but did miss a foul or two.

I don't think refs have favorites. I was asked to ref today so I "may" be one of them in orange county week 5.

I would do it just because:

They need help desperately ( several regionals are short refs) its a 90 minute drive for myself over three days .
I know all the rules
We got RP taken away over not registered crossings yesterday ( I would watch that teams get proper credit)
More cool bots to watch! Many teams whom I know and watching them play in a new regional is enticing.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

I've seen power liftgates on minivans that looked to have linear actuators doing the lifting (such as the late 2000's/early 2010's Chrysler vans).

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Well played sir, well played. :rolleyes:

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

I am not one to be a stickler about numbers and bumpers but I am watching 5310 in qualification 71 in Mount Olive and they should not be allowed to compete like that.

I only saw 3 sides of there robot and the numbers on two of the sides was 530, and another was just 3.

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

That is very good to hear and yes, concerns gone. I'm in final prep for my FTA'ing duties starting this coming week and that one made me perk up.

Thank you for the update!

Re: Rules violations spotted on webcasts
 

This just happened again twice in a match in the QFs at PNW. Team opened the drawbridge from the neutral zone, and shot high goal without completing the crossing (exiting back through the drawbridge). The refs did not score the crossing, but also did not penalize the shots.