Scoring/game issues
 

I know this has been mentioned in earlier posts however, I am frustrated to learn this morning that our team lost one of our qualification matches because our scale points were given to the opposing alliance. How that mistake could happen is crazy as we were the only team at our even to even attempt a scale. Shame on us for not catching the point mishap but, we were so stinking excited to scale again that we didn't catch this until early this morning. We knew there were a lot of scoring issues going on all day long and weren't sure if it was due to the field system or lack of training by the referees. I definitely feel like this game this year is pretty complicated for a referee but, shoot! That was a 30 point swing and honestly didn't think it was possible to screw up the scale points as those are added after the match and well, no one else was even trying.

How do your teams handle the point issues? Are we incorrectly understanding that we cannot question points after a match? Or was that just about fouls? I am thinking that we need to appoint a couple of students that just focus on points and make sure we get the points we deserve so we don't walk away missing some well deserved points or match wins. Then if something comes up, we can question right away in an appropriate manner. I know a lot of your teams are more established and better organized than we are so, we are appreciative of any insight you can give.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

See section 5.5.3 Referee Interaction. T19 states:

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

We lost 2 breach RP... first time we left the field then asked "too late"
Second time we asked they denied it even though it was obvious from the stands

I sent a message to FRC to try to get video replay decision of any RP challenges before end of day 1 to help correct rankings ...it really messed up the ranking scale in San Diego we were way lower ranked than we should have been..but as consolation we beat #1 in two games decisively :) #8 alliance was captain was thrilled to have us available at their pick and we got another great bot the pick after..so it all worked out. To the detriment of alliance 1

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Are you sure that the scale points were assigned incorrectly? Because the way you're describing it is kind of impossible. :confused:

The refs that score scales happen immediately after the end of the match, but the ones that score red side don't even look at or score blue side, and vice versa.

I can't say for sure what happened, but I don't think they awarded your scale to another team without some very serious mistakes. It would involve a ref walking to the other end of the field to put in your scale on a different ref panel, then have that scale be corroborated by the other ref on that end of the field saying "yup, that scale happened"

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

I agree, it feels really crazy! Are scores reported accurately on The Blue Alliance? I thought those were accurate scores. This is where I found the error. We are 4980.
https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2016waspo_qm45

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

While 4980 was not successful in this match, they were the only ones scaling at west valley, as the match video for this match confirms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p7j...QJu4n&index=45 (at least this one was posted, many from here are mislabeled or outright missing.) Its fairly obvious they were the only ones scaling that match, and thus the Blue alliance should not of gotten the scaling points.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Are you sure no foul was called because those can add scaling points to other alliance.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Another big issue this week:

Teams clearly crossing defenses 5 or 6 times, before the defense is scored as damaged...

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Wouldnt fouls be called as fouls and not a scale?
https://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2016waspo_qm45

Another issue is defenses being counted as damaged incorrectly, as in match 1 for the same event (watch 4513's bot and the low bar during the beginning of teleop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iik...hQJu4n&index=1) At least this match was replayed the next day.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

G28, for those that need a reference.

G17 may also apply if someone's jumping the gun.


The combination of those two could easily generate that result.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Yup tell me about it :( cost us 2 RP by end of day 1, I wish there were sensors lots going on its hard on refs but affects ranking we beat alliance #1 2-0 because #8 alliance was loaded with quality bots ..that should not happen if ranking is not skewed by missed RP's which put us about 6 places back from where we should have been ranked.

I get where First is coming from but this explains in part why lower alliances are doing really good this year . They ARE good and using the "extra time not wasted on crossing defenses again and again" instead on elimination alliances scoring. Not very fair to #1 and #2 alliances if stronger top 10ish bots are artificially ranked lower.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

It got counted, but not until the timer reached 110 seconds left.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

I can't really speak for the accuracy of TBA scores or where the blue alliance scale points came from, etc

The only thing I really can say is that it's highly unlikely that they counted your scale for blue instead.

After watching the video of the match, your robot (4980) was not actually high enough to score a scale. You have to have ALL of your robot lifted above the top of the opening for the low goal ;)

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Watch around the 90 second mark. That should not of counted.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

So, here is the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p7joyGrT8g

MikLast is right. We didn't make it up high enough for the scale. And, while the video doesn't show our third player, the robot is clearly in their own courtyard at the end of the match near an opposing robot. I'm guessing they were playing defense well into the last 20 seconds and cost us that 15 points. This is really good to know as it's a HUGE penalty and would explain why there are scaling points all over the place even though no one else is scaling. It would be nice to have it labeled as a penalty instead of a scale. That would help us trying to figure out the scoring stuff.

The final score for them gives them a scale but no challenge. So, I don't know what robot was hit but, it would seem like the red bot had to hit the blue one on the battery for red to not pick up 20 points total instead of the just the 15.

I appreciate the help in this!

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Where is the video? You only need your bumpers to be over the low goal to score scale points.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

I noticed that as well. Seems like the refs are very occupied to notice.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Its a little up in the thread, but here it is again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p7j...QJu4n&index=45

They were not high enough, that was established. It was their first try at scaling also. The issue there WAS a scaling awarded, and to the wrong alliance.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

edit -- MikLast beat me to it!

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Yeah, I agree that would be pretty outrageous to give a scale to another team. I think we are getting this figured out. I honestly did not realize G28. So, learning moment for me. Thanks for the input on how the referees score those. I wasn't sure how the referees keep track of stuff. That's good to know!

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

In our regional, we are only aware of one issue. We had breached the defenses but it was not counted as a rank point. We had a student immediately go to the challenge box. Within 2 minutes, they corrected the score.

I do know the referees were very picky on certain defenses but they warned all of our drivers about at initial driver meeting. Very rarely could a team on their own damage the sally port unless they showed a big gap between the robot and the door. I had no issue with most of their no damage calls. I am sure when we get the replays, we will see many instances where a robot separated from door by a couple inches but a tough call for the referee. Again, no issue on my end as this was explained prior to the start of the contest.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Where was 3876 at the end of the match? They're not in the shot that closes in on 4890's scale attempt. They could have very well been down at the other end of the field, came in contact with a blue robot, and earned blue a free scale per G28. They get credited with a scale even if none of their robots are capable of scaling.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Any team that picks by rank only gets what they deserve. ;)

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

You lost 2 RP which sucks. However, you and your alliance partner(s) for that match lost 2 RP for the match which any of you may or may not have contributed to. The good teams are not ranked lower because of scoring issues, but because of the nature of random alliance partners and whether they chose to build a robot that plays for the qualification rounds or the elimination rounds. Many years in Los Angeles, teams ranked quite low would be chosen for alliances because they were built specifically to play the elimination rounds and compliment other team's abilities.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

True but its the difference in us being Alliance captain or a very strong first pick of another very strong bot. Not sure if it would have changed the outcomes but it is something to consider

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It was two separate matches breaches were not scored and yes good teams do get ranked lower when RP is a first order sort

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The only obvious error I found with the Sally Door is when 1 robot holds the door for 2 to cross and it doesnt count as breached.:confused:

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

At Waterbury, it was stressed at the Sunday morning driver meeting that the robot must completely clear the defense in order for it to count. Then they proceeded to award numerous autonomous crossings that shouldn't have been. I could only see one side of the field, so I don't know if it was happening on both sides. If it was only happening on one side, the red alliance had the advantage.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

I think they do that because that is the same as the infinite height time to scale and most bots need full 20 seconds to scale. So they count is as scaling because who knows what would have really occurred without an interfering defensive bot?

Going to have to remind our drive team to remind our alliance partners to tag bots when they hear the 20 second warning if in our courtyard..that's a lot of points.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Beware of G11 here. If you run into an opponent in their courtyard on your way to the tower in the last 20 seconds then G28 will grant you scale points, but if you are clearly chasing down an opponent in their courtyard just to 'tag' them, then G11 kicks in and you could earn yourself a penalty instead.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

While I agree it is very annoying that points get scored incorrectly I do feel the need to correct you here in saying that you lost the match because of it. LEt me elaborate on that:
1. A scale rewards an additional 10 points to the challenge thus making it a 20 point swing and not a 30 point swing. (You did get rewarded 5 points for your challenge which was the correct call)
2. Since you didn't succesfully scaled as stated before the "only" wrong dicision made was awarding the blue alliance 10 additional scaling point (which is odd indeed)

The final scores should have been Red 42 - 50 Blue which means you would still have lost that match.
So however I do agree it is a big issue that there are multiple occassions were points were scored incorrectly it is unfair to say that you lost because of it.

Re: Scoring/game issues
 

Ok thanks for the reminder

AS for scale points from original OP was that a G28 last 20 second contact in opponents courtyard...that adds scale points