Pit Scouting Questions?
 

I was wondering if anyone has made a formal list of questions or a pen/paper spreadsheet for pit Scouting. I just finished making my field Scouting mock-up electronically and I'd like to add in some pit Scouting, but this is my 1st year in FIRST, coming from one year of VEX, where at State VEX, all I did for pit Scouting was walk around with our match schedule and take notes next to their name.


TL;DR
Does anyone have Pit Scouting Questions/Spreadsheet that I can look at for an idea.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Honestly, there is very little to be gained by asking questions during pit scouting. All that matters is what teams demonstrate on the field, not what they tell you they intend to do.

On the other hand, scouting during matches is extremely valuable. This year especially, it's valuable to know which defenses your opponents are able to cross in both autonomous and teleop.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

We have a scouter carry a small laptop to do pit scouting, and they just take pictures of robots with their phone. Our sheets consist mostly of yes or no questions- it's objective and easy for the scout to type. Here's the fundamental questions we're asking this year:
-what type of drive train does the robot use?
-can you attain a reach or cross in auto?
-can you score a ball in auto? From the spy box? Low or high goal?
-we then do what I'm calling "rapid fire defenses." It's a bit of a game for the pit scouters, and it speeds up the process, too. The scout asks the team what defenses they can cross, one at a time. The team must only answer yes or no. When asking about the Sally port and drawbridge, we are asking if a team can open it from the neutral zone.
-we also ask about high goal/low goal abilities in teleop. We ask this separately from the auto shooting because there actually are teams that can only shoot in auto, can only do high goals, etc.
-valuable questions that seem to get forgotten a lot are robot weight, and, if you're interested in cheesecaking, what programming language the team uses. Make sure you ask if they're using command-based or object-based Java, too.

Personal suggestions: the old lenovos with the batteries that stick out the back are great for pit scouting, cause the battery makes a nice little handle for holding it with one hand while you type. Any laptop under 13" is usually okay for pit scouting, larger ones work but they aren't as comfortable to hold. To speed up typing, make the possible responses for each question as short as possible, and use no capital letters or special characters. Use the data validation tool in excel to make sure responses all use the same syntax, and if you're using a tablet, the dropdown menus are great.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Only question worth asking for pit scouting.

Can I take a picture of your robot?.


All other questions will be answered as to what the team designed/hopes their robot will do on the field and won't be helpful Friday night.


Now going up and talking to a team to learn about their robot and how they came to the decisions they did and any cool designs that they came up with is always beneficial. It's just not information your going to use to determine if they are a good alliance partner.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

I typically don't rely on pit scouting but its nice for the first 2 matches, but for questions I try to rely on my eyes because they won't lie to you. Most people don't lie on purpose its what they believe there robot can do. So I look at the drive train the wheels, if they have a shooter, scaling mechanism, how tall they are etc. Also pictures are nice for reference as said by Eric.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

My team used pit scouting to get a general idea of what we should expect robots to be able to do.

• We gave three options: Shooting, breaching, and defending, and asked teams to rank their priority to them.
  
• We had teams check off any defenses they knew they could cross reliably.
  
• We asked about any obvious weaknesses they knew of (taken with large grains of salt)
  
  
• We asked what their autonomous could do.
  
• We asked where their human player preferred to go,
  
• We left a space for notes and a space for if their robot wit undergoing significant modifications.

We found this helpful for pre-match strategy, for both partners and opponents, and for putting together a list of teams to pay closer attention to that may complement us.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Ask questions like an engineering award judge. Don't bother until after qualifications are already half way through. Ask for honesty (fact check with field scouting, ie - you say you can shoot 7 in the high goal, but I only saw 1 in the low goal all day), know why people are struggling and respect the brilliant designs.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

[quote=EricLeifermann;1558124]Only question worth asking for pit scouting.

Can I take a picture of your robot?.


All other questions will be answered as to what the team designed/hopes their robot will do on the field and won't be helpful Friday night.


i think this year pit scouting is somewhat more important.
1. you can see if it has a manipulator to do the SP, CDF, or PC.
2. by looking you should have a good idea if it can go over other obstacles
3. is it a low bar bot
4. is it a low goal shooter , high ,both? this effects defense.
5. can it block?
all of this can be done before the first match

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

One of the most important things on our pit scouting sheet is how wide the robot is with the bumpers. Many teams struggle to scale because their alliance partners are wider than the tower wall with bumpers on.
Also, knowing what side of the batter a team prefers to scale on is important. A wide robot that prefers to scale in the middle of the batter will just get in the way of everyone else attempting to scale on the left and right side.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Basically, this is the plan for pit scouting. Can you cross ______? We ask that for all 9 defenses. We also ask, can you scale? I put Yes's into our database as 1, Maybe's in as 0.5, and No's in as zero. I use a pit scouting defense predictor that analyzes the other 3 teams statistics to determine which 3 defenses are best to put out It's a very simple excel function that took about 30 minutes to make if even. If you have any questions about that (like want help making it if you desire to or want to see a screenshot of it), PM me.

Also, at our last event, we took pictures of every robot and our awesome media team edited the photos and created a scouting board with pictures of every robot. They then set up the poster board by the monitor that displays current ranks in the pit so everyone can see the pictures.

With those pictures, we also dragged them into our excel sheet on each teams "profile" so I could see them on the field on the laptop I use for alliance selection. I am personally going to see if we can get 2 pictures of every robot this event. One for the overview like last time. And hopefully a pic of every drive train too.

That is basically the pit data we collect and how we use it.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

I will continue to disagree with people who think pit scouting is worthless. the key is to ask them objective questions (which defenses can you cross, how many motors are on your drive, size of the robot, can you shoot high & accuracy percentage, would you be willing to defend, that sort of thing). because just because a team can do something doesnt mean that they will do it in every match - a good team will do what their alliance needs to be as successful as possible, not just to peacock themselves to potential allies, so they might not be able to do all of their cool tricks.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

We ask a lot of questions that aren't directly about the robot:

How many batteries do you have? (Will we need to lend them batteries?)
How many speeds do you have? (Helps us differentiate teams for defensive roles)
What programming language do you use? (Can we help them with programming if they need it)
Do you have pneumatics? (Can we cheesecake pneumatic mechanisms onto them?

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

I can get all those answers from the picture.

Like I said we encourage our students and mentors to go and talk to teams to learn, but its not pit scouting.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

I agree with you on some of these points. However I don't think that asking which defenses a team can cross, and shot accuracy, can be answered objectively. I know my team hasn't measured our shot accuracy, and would give you a ballpark estimate that was gathered in our shop without the pressure of competition and robot defense. What value does that give you? Similarly, many teams this early in the season have only practiced crossing the team versions of defenses. These behave differently than the field models. As we get to later and higher levels of competition, some of these answers may have more value.

What weight are people giving to pit scouting data if they collect it? Say a team claims they have 90% high goal shot accuracy, but fail to show it in a single match, instead opting for low goals. If you were in a picking position and looking for a high goal shooter, would you rather pick a team who SAYS they can shoot high with 90% accuracy, but have failed to display it, or go with a team that has visibly showed a 70-80% accuracy in qualification matches? If I was seriously interested in a team's ability, but haven't seen it yet, I might be inclined to talk to them and ask if they are capable of showing it off, either on a practice field, or out at their next match.

I feel that this game requires teams to flaunt their stuff. The way to rank high in this game during quals is not the way to play this game in Elims. I would feel more comfortable picking a team who has visibly shown their ability rather than saying they can do it.

That being said. I agree with the other points made. Take pictures and get measurements if you want. The tower face constraints are going to be a real issue that we really haven't really seen come to light yet.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

RE: Scaling question in Pits

Yes= 1,
Maybe= 0.5
No =0

May I suggest a tweak to your assessment technique..

Visually witnessed in game=1000
Visually witnessed in practice or on tape=100

In pits....
Yes = 0.5
Maybe= 0
No=0

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Basically, we only use the quantitative data for the first day of Qualifications. It helps us decide which defenses would be the best to put out. Day 2 qualifications and Eliminations, we have the same exact defense predictor but use our stand scouting data instead of pit data. We also use the pictures on day 2 to help us decide which teams would be the best to pick for our alliance (assuming we will be a captain because it is always better to be prepared than relying on being picked). Hope this sort of answered that question for anyone who was wondering.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Stand scouting allows you to get to know the robot.
Pit scouting allows you to get to know the team.

Keep that in mind, and let that guide your pit scouting questionnaire.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Haha. Read my post that is at the top of the second page (the one right above this post). We only use that pit data for day 1 defense selection. Day two, our defense predictor gets moved to Stand Data Mode. Then we use our day 1 quantitative data for day 2 (quals and elims) ;)

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

At the end of the day teams can and will say what they designed the robot to do, not what it can actually do. They are not saying these things to be misleading, its what they designed the robot to do.

But at the end of the day if you don't do it on the field in an actual match you cannot do it.

1678 showed a 2 ball auto in a video but didn't do it in a match. Therefore they can't do a 2 ball. When they do it in a match(which I have every confidence they will) then I will say that they can do a 2 ball auto.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Also, "What's your current weight/Are you open to cheesecake?"

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

One thing that would be good to ask since a picture does not make it apparent is "what defenses (if any) can you cross in autonomous?" This would allow you to prepare for collaboration in mutual qual matches, and prepare to pick defenses that they don't cross for any matches you have against them. Again, no promise that they will tell you the truth, but it's nice to have an idea anyways.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

What I've found to be useful in pit scouting is asking what the team prefers, not what they can do. As many others have said, a team can't be relied on to give accurate performance starts on their robot.

On the other hand, you can find important info on what their preffered role is. "Would you rather shoot or handle defenses" and "do you wish to focus on getting a breach or capture" gives you their preferences, which they won't be wrong about. This can help a lot when looking for alliance partners.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

This is the pit scouting questionnaire that my teams use. You can use it as well if you choose.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6z...ew?usp=sharing

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

sometimes robots can do certain things that they never get a chance to do (like when a portcullis is broken and nobody uses it, but its "gonna be fixed" for the last day, i.e. elim matches...)

Aye, There's ↑ the rub!

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

I run pit scouting on our team. Our operations generally run like this:

On Day 0, I go around to every team's pit and get pictures of their robots. These pictures then get uploaded to a Flickr account (from my phone if the Internet's good enough, otherwise at home that night after the pits close). From there, the pictures get put onto spreadsheets which are printed and used to record pit scouting info, with each being for a different team and having their number and name on the spreadsheet.

On Day 1, I and typically at least one other pit scout divide up the teams and circle around the pits to ask questions. We have separate boxes for robot nickname, distinguishing characteristics, low/high goal shots, defense (against other robots), climbing, each of the various defenses, and goals and defenses in auto. Scouts aren't given a script, but I generally ask questions in the following manner:

• Does your robot have a nickname?
• Which defenses can you do?
• Can you shoot high/low?
• What's your drivetrain like? Are you good at pushing other robots around?
• Can you climb?
• What's your auto like?
• Anything else cool or interesting about your robot?

From there, the forms stay in the pit so that they can be accessible to drive team. As drive team plays matches, they use a separate box to record interactions with their alliances drive teams, plus anything else unique they notice.

When we go to rank teams for desirability, we use the pit scouting forms to see if they potentially have any other valuable skills that they advertised, or if drive team has problems with them, or whether they have abilities which have not been demanded in their matches.

This data usually advises decisions secondarily as a means to cross-reference, but they also serve as excellent look at a team at glance if anyone picks up on something and wants to check over a team's basic skills and robot image.

Your scouting shouldn't rely on data you get from the pit since many teams exaggerate/lie, but it can be a useful addition to your scouting process.

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

here's what my team has generally done:
[Click this link to seeee the sheet im talking about]

It is very specific information, but when asked in the right tones, the feedback is remarkable (yeses and no's are still information, are they not?)

after the first day of pit scouting, we have a lot of down time, so we all (we = scouts) go around the pits and write down one interesting feature that is unique to the teams' robots. If two teams share a feature, the one who works better trumps the other.

We also find our favorite bot in general and make predictions on who will be successful, who will not, based on the design aspects and performance on the practice field.

of course, prediction isnt everything... which is why we have match scouting!! the link to that stuff (which i made myseyuf) is [HERE] (in the case that anyone might want it...)

Re: Pit Scouting Questions?
 

Not necessarily. There was a team at Midwest who's bot was so close to the ground that their wheels weren't even visible. At first glance, it seemed like they couldn't do any defenses, and even the low bar seemed questionable with how low that thing was. However, they were somehow able to do the group Ds, as well as the low bar. We use the pit scouting data for the initial sort (i.e. "who can do the moat?") then cross-reference that with actual crossing data. It just makes the whole process a bit faster.