Originally Posted by Tem1514 Mentor (Post 1563646)

The only time the Q&A answer becomes official is when it causes a team update to occur that causes the game manual to be changed. Not all Q&A answers cause team updates. Again please see 1.6 in the game manual.

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 1563647)

Threads merged

Originally Posted by bachster (Post 1561913)

Hi Glenn,

I'm not sure if the Head Ref was involved prior, but from what I witnessed (I forget which round), a field-side RI noticed that 359's bumpers had zip-ties around the bumpers and notified the LRI. The LRI checked the robot on the field and had the drive team remove the zip-ties since these aren't considered a rigid fastening system and aren't part of the legal bumper cross-section. I was on the field next to your robot when the zip-ties were removed and it was clear that the front corners were not very rigidly attached. I'm not familiar with your bumper fastening system, but it seemed like something must have broken or loosened during a previous match and the zip ties were added as a temporary fix. The LRI allowed 359 to play that match and required that the bumpers be more rigidly attached for the next match, which is when you added the wood screws. Maybe during that same match the Head Ref also noticed them sagging and also gave you a "warning," or maybe the Head Ref had noticed them sagging after the fastening system loosened and that's what prompted the zip ties, but either way, this does seem like an appropriate application of G19-1 (and as far as I know, you weren't fouled or disabled, just asked to fix it for the next match).

Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 1564780)

Sorry for not responding earlier, I just read this.
The zip ties on the sides of the bumper is our fault. One of my kids put them on for the sake of doing it which was not neccessary.
As for the corner in question, he did that because the corner in was somehow bent a little after a much earlier previous match and he used zipties to try and straighten them out. After being asked to secure it with screws, we did it in the heat of the moment because I didnt want to miss a match. I do still believe that the bumper was within the height requirements though. The robot passed reinspection.
Was it measured on the field?
I think it was more of a cause and effect seeing the zip ties.

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1564793)

What doesn't make sense to me is why zip ties can not be used as a supplementary mounting system. Say you had 2 wood screws that were a little loose what is the problem with adding a few zip ties to help you out. The front of our 2015 off season bot was held to the drive train with zip ties held up fine through 5 quals and all the way through 3 final matches. The things are definitely strong enough in bulk to hold on a bumper.

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1564797)

Zip ties are SPECIFICALLY not counted as a rigid fastening system (they're called "cable ties" in the manual as I recall).

Also, depending on the application, you could get called for "hard parts beyond 1". Either one of those two is grounds for a reinspection/repair.

Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 1564780)

Sorry for not responding earlier, I just read this.
The zip ties on the sides of the bumper is our fault. One of my kids put them on for the sake of doing it which was not neccessary.
As for the corner in question, he did that because the corner in was somehow bent a little after a much earlier previous match and he used zipties to try and straighten them out. After being asked to secure it with screws, we did it in the heat of the moment because I didnt want to miss a match. I do still believe that the bumper was within the height requirements though. The robot passed reinspection.
Was it measured on the field?
I think it was more of a cause and effect seeing the zip ties.

Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 1564780)

Sorry for not responding earlier, I just read this.
The zip ties on the sides of the bumper is our fault. One of my kids put them on for the sake of doing it which was not neccessary.
As for the corner in question, he did that because the corner in was somehow bent a little after a much earlier previous match and he used zipties to try and straighten them out. After being asked to secure it with screws, we did it in the heat of the moment because I didnt want to miss a match. I do still believe that the bumper was within the height requirements though. The robot passed reinspection.
Was it measured on the field?
I think it was more of a cause and effect seeing the zip ties.

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1564797)

Also, depending on the application, you could get called for "hard parts beyond 1".

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis (Post 1564848)

Please note that reinspection is NOT another full inspection. During reinspection, we don't measure bumpers, or check frame perimeter, etc. We specifically look at what had changed. In the case of an elims reinspection, this is based on weight of the robot and talking with the team. Just because you passed reinspection does NOT mean everything is 100% legal, and when it comes to bumpers, the Head Ref does have some say on the field as to their legality.

You would not believe the stuff I've found at champs on robots that had passed inspection and reinspection at 3 or more prior events...

Originally Posted by bachster (Post 1564887)

Glenn, hopefully your team didn't leave with the impression that rules were applied incorrectly or unfairly. Thanks for being willing to make the quick modification!

Apologies for the extreme tangent to the thread. :)