Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

So question, if a team is obviously shooting high arc lob shots over a blocker's height limit, will the refs call the messing with sensors rule if the blocker attempts to "block" the shot but is really just blocking the camera? Especially if the blocker wasn't "intending" to block cameras but just block shots.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

This Q&A is an inspection issue, not a match play issue. If you violate this rule it would be during inspection, not during a match. There is no gameplay associated rule that penalizes teams for standing in front of cameras or whatever.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

I am the original poster of the QA question. I phrased the question the way I did because when we went to reinspect our drive team told the RI that we added the device to block a camera's vision. My interpretation of rule R9-C is that it prevents a team from using something to "trick" an opponent's sensor. (Using reflective tape on the robot fro example) I did not think the intent of the rule was to prevent defense by obstructing vision and said as much to the RI. I have no discontent with his decision but I wanted to get the rule clarified because it might be an issue at another time. At the time I thought about R9-A but the blocking device was only 36" tall so that didn't worry me.

I can see where a 4'6" device could be in violation of R9-A, especially if it was up against the castle wall.

The ruling was very disappointing to me because of all the things mentioned in this post. It could mean that any type of shot blocker would be illegal if deemed that it also prevents a sensor from working the way a team wants.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

At CVR, the LRI left it up to the Head Referee's discretion. Teams who had passed inspection were later forced to modify. After helping an alliance partner install a blocker, the LRI "suggested" that windows be added because the head referee would rule it a violation of R9-A.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

This is just like pre-crime in Minority Report. Is a shot unblockable if said shot hasn't actually been taken yet?

-Brando

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

Except in this instance, Rules for Intent(even supposed intent) have been laid out.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

If my intent is to block your shot (not your camera) - how do we know I couldn't block your shot until you actually take your shot?

Every shot is different - some will be clearly unblockable, others will be right on the edge, but unblockable and others will be right on the edge, but sometimes blockable...

Oh and in doing all of this, your camera was completely screened because I was trying to block your (maybe) unblockable shot...

-Brando

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

So then even if the shot misses but makes it past your blocker, you just gave that team, and their alliance, a viable reason to argue for a rematch and you having to take off your blocker because you didnt block their shot but you did block there vision system.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

I fail to see how. You didn't violate any game rules. You already passed inspection, as your device was not specifically designed for blocking camera vision.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

Yes, LRIs are usually not random, but that doesn't correlate to all rules being interpreted the same way. Same for Safety inspectors, Referees, etc.
Hopefully, FIRST will address this further and soon since CD has exploded on this topic.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

Your "blocker" didnt block my boulder, therefore, its not there to block boulders. I could very easily go to the Head Ref with this Q&A and convince them that your blocker was used to impede my vision tracking.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

But my blocker wasnt specifically designed to block vision systems, it was designed to block boulders. The fact that it prevents line of sight to a target is just a fortunate-for-me side effect.

By the logic above then, even a 12" tall robot that blocks a camera someone has stashed UNDER their bumpers for whatever reason can be flagged for blocking a vision system and subsequently induce a replayed match - this time the 12" 'blocking robot' must now, not even drive near that team? remove their, i dont even know what?

The tail is wagging the dog - mount your cameras low and demand replays if there is any vision interference is not something I think any of us want to see...

-Brando

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

Sadly, that's what this Q&A opens up.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

Your first sentence is a logical fallacy. Just because something didn't do X does not mean it did not intend to do X.

Re: Your tall opaque robot is now illegal
 

I just can't see how FIRST can implement a rule (or in this case Q+A response, which is really just a rule) that talks about intent. You could lie through your face to the LRI about how your intent for your large 3 feet long piece of plywood was just to catch the wind of other robots moving to help you move faster, but on the field it could block 118's camera which is mounted at the front of their robot - how does anyone make that call? Does 118 go to the Head Ref to ask for the plywood to go away? Then your robot can't play defense! Must all defensive robots have completely 100% transparent non-vision blocking, non-light refracting, borderless pieces of glass on their robots to comply with the vision blockage rule? What if 118 also uses a LIDAR or ultrasonic sensor to judge distance-to-goal? Then any defensive piece of equipment that blocks 118's shooter is illegal, right? I mean, it also blocks the sensing capabilities of that robot!

So many unanswerable questions, so many events already played.