Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Hi, my team has $5000 to spend on parts, tools, and machinery for next season so what should we purchase? I know we won't know exactly what we need for next season until then but we need to spend this money by tomorrow. We are trying to purchase machinery for our new workshop but are unsure as to what would be the most useful. Are there items that will be necessary that we do not receive in the KoP next season (e.g. roboRIO)? We're interested in purchasing a new laptop so feel free to recommend one as well. Thank you!

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

It would help to know what you already have.

A lathe, CNC router, etc can all be helpful.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

QFT. We can't help you unless we know exactly what you need help with.

Though I suppose I would start with the basics of drill press, table saw, band saw, bench grinder / belt sander.

OP mentioned as well buying a second (assumedly second) RoboRio, and that would be a good investment as long as you intend on utilizing it for either a full fledged practice robot or testing bed.

I would focus on sustainability first; buy all of the parts that you know that you'll need and utilize first, then get tools that can help you advance to the next level of building.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

We do not currently have any machinery whatsoever. We have items that came in our Rookie KoP and our standard KoP and small tools that we've gathered from our garages. We began with a $0 and ended up spending about $300 after kickoff.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Small tools gathered being, at minimum:
Wrench set
Screw driver set
Battery operated drill and assorted drill bits
Hack Saw
Allen set


Next I would acquire tools that are more specific to FRC that your average garage wouldn't have; mostly electrical tools and supplies would fall under here:
Various spools of 12/16/18 gauge wire (In both Red and Black/Blue)
A decent crimper (Preferably a ratcheting one)
Soldering set
Assorted insulated connectors
Assorted motor controllers (REV Sparks are cheap, though seems like Talons are the Tier 1 controllers)

Afterwards, I might start looking into getting some stock building materials that you know you will be using, whether that be plywood, sheet metal, box tubing, 80/20, assorted fasteners, etc.

From here, I would start grabbing some of the more advanced tools that I listed, such as:
Band Saw
Drill Press
Belt Sander / Bench Grinder
Welding set/station
Compressed Air station
Laser engraver
3D Printer
*Note - you could go a bit more on the "expert" end of the spectrum and replace the Drill Press with a Machining Mill.

On the very far side of the spectrum, if you're really comfortable (and have the space), utilize what Mr. Gregory suggest and buy things like:
CNC Router
Lathe
Plasma Cutter (If you extensively utilize metal)



Addition reading on the subject.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Look at the end of this document, it's a bit out dated but it has a pretty complete tool list.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3138

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Before buying equipment decide what you training resources are. If you buy tools like a lathe and have no person to use or teach operating the lathe it is not a good investment at this time. Look into used or donated used machine tools. You also must plan for the space you will have. In our machine shop the tools take up 1/3 of the shop space, work benches take about 1/6, and clear space takes up 1/2. The clear space was increased from 1/3 and much of the robot assembly and testing is done there.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Thank you so much! The input and resources are greatly appreciated and helpful!

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Definitely bandsaw, drill press, socket wrench, and 2 hand drills + batteries for starter. Then 2 fractional drill bit sets (you really need both). Allen wrenches (AKA hex wrenches), at least 2 imperial and 1 metric set, preferably 3 and 2 instead.
A few fine or general-purpose metal files for deburring. Maybe a set of needle files for getting into hex bores. A deburring tool with the little hook-chaped blade is great for circular deburring, as well as countersinks (82*, not 90*).
A medium size bench vise and low-profile mini vise are helpful.
You definitely need a rolling toolbox. One with ball bearing drawers will last an age compared to regular ones. Tackle-box-like boxes are fantastic for organizing screws and small parts. Start organizing immediately or you will regret it.
A shelving unit, also rolling if you don't have a permanent space for it, will come in handy later. So will a few 2015-style totes for storing large items or projects as long as you make sure to keep them uncluttered. Magnetic tool/parts dishes also help with cluttering.
If you want to use #25 chain, the Dark Soul chain tool is great to avoid paying for masterlinks.

The first major tool I would buy would be a mill, but the associated accessories like collets, drill bits, endmills, and vises can run a pretty penny, at least $1000 to get set up well imo. But a mill with DRO is one of the most useful tools a team can have imo after they have the basics.

Stock up on things like aluminum stock tubing, preferably versatubes for the ease-of-use, and hex shaft.

EDIT: Holy cow Spectrum's list is amazingly perfect, definitely take a look at that above.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Thanks it's on my todo list to update this summer. We have a few new favorite tools that aren't one there. A good pair of Aviation Snips and a small cordless reciprocating saw are two things I wouldn't want to work without anymore.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

If you were to buy a second roborio, I'd buy the rest of the control system too. PDP, VRM, PCM, radio, and some motor controllers. FIRST Choice and the virtual KOP are good places to get these closer to and during the build season for free. (I would even use this year's voucher from CTRE (before April 30) to get more Talon SRXs or Victor SPs if you use either of those.)

As for the RSL and breaker switch, you will get another in next year's KOP, but if you want more than 2, you can probably ask some teams near you that have been around for a few years, as they would most likely be willing to let you have one or two (they pile up quickly).

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

^^ And RSL's are extremely expensive to buy new for some reason.

I definitely recommend the second, or even third, RoboRio and control system. Depends on how your team is set up, of course, but we had many subteams vying for time on the robot(s): the drive team, the autonomous team, the controls software team, the vision processing team, and of course fab/electrical wanted to keep working on stuff.

To the OP, have you thought about your longer term strategy for how your team is going to run? It's great that you found some money and there's a long list of things you could spend it on, but to spend it wisely you should have a plan for what your program is going to look like over the next few years. An obvious question, for example, is where you work out of, how much room there is, how much storage space you have. You obviously shouldn't buy a mill if you don't have a place to put it.

When my team started we decided pretty early on that we would always try to build a practice robot in addition to our competition robot. Knowing this helped us set our fundraising/sponsorship targets, and guided us to purchase our first RoboRio control system early in the fall. This helped because we could then start teaching students how to use it, knowing that a complete second system was coming in the rookie KOP. And of course they are now both in use in two identical robots.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

I'm going to offer up this thread with discussion of recommended tools.

I'm going to agree that a second RoboRio and associated power/control components is a good idea. For the shop tools, keep in mind what your mentors know how to use and how much space you have in your shop. You will need a fair amount of assembly space, and you need some clear areas near the fixed tools for safety.

We do pretty much everything with a drill press, chop saw, bandsaw, and belt sander because we don't have enough space to safely store/operate a lathe or mill. Also make sure you get the right blades and so forth for cutting aluminum (presuming that's your main material of choice).

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Definitely the rolling tool box. The red "Pro" cabinets from Harbor Freight are probably one of the best things they carry. One or two like this http://www.harborfreight.com/tool-st...net-68784.html are very nice since you can put a workbench top on them. It seems to me that they would make a nice addition to both your shop and something you could probably fit in your pit. The only caveat is to check the cabinet at the store, when you get one that isn't damaged they are great, but I recently bought their 26" cabinet and I had to go through 3 of the top boxes before I found one that wasn't significantly damaged.

For small parts storage, these http://www.harborfreight.com/tool-st...ase-93928.html, http://www.harborfreight.com/8-bin-p...ase-93927.html are very nice for the price. When closed they do a very good job of not getting parts mixed up between bins and you can take one of the bins with you when you need a bunch of 1/4 20 bolts, or whatever. Also look online for ideas for making rolling cabinets to hold a bunch of the cases. Adam Savage has a Tested video about the storage cabinets he made for his Sortimo cases.

Of course being Harbor Freight items make sure you look for coupons before you buy anything.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

I'll also add that, as much as we all want a dream shop, what you need to do robotics is nowhere near what you want. We just got through our first build season, and we worked in an area where we had to set up and tear down at every meeting. We did have a 26" rolling toolbox and a copious amount of shelving for bins of parts and equipment, but our only real shop tools were an 8" drill press and a 10" compound miter saw. We also had a few cordless drills, a jigsaw, an angle grinder, a Dremel, a compressor and a rivet gun, and a variety of hand tools.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

I want to echo this. Buying aluminum from the hardware store is very expensive. It is much less expensive to buy in larger quantities online.

We buy from OnlineMetals.

Consider buying:
1"x1" angle
2"x2" angle
1"x2" tube
1"x1" tube

Depending on the game sometimes you need stronger the .125" thick and sometimes you need light weight .060" thick. We buy a mixture.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

I recommend against Online Metals; even with the occasional 25% off coupons it costs more than places like Speedy Metals, and local places are far cheaper than either because you don't have to pay exorbitant shipping costs.
We go to Alan Steel locally, and a few others go to Coast Aluminum.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

This season we actually worked out of our school's computer lab. We built makeshift walls and occupied about 1/3 of the room but we managed to make it work for us. Our school (Young Women's Leadership Academy) is extremely small with about 150 high school students. Thus, our team consisted of 10 members this season. The good news is our storage room on campus will be our new home in a few weeks. A storage room might sound small but it's about the size of 3 classrooms.

We plan on hosting workshops and encouraging our younger students to participate in FLL events next year. We would like the workshops to be a way to encourage other students to join our team as well as teach students about FIRST and the control system. Team 457 allowed us to use their KoP from last season to teach us before going into our first build season and that definitely helped us. We went ahead and ordered a second control system to teach new students about it and we have decided on building a practice bot alongside our competition bot next season.

We're currently working on more forms of outreach and hope to gain more mentors and sponsorship soon!

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Here is a massive list from Mcmaster carr I put together for a rookie team in the area. It is based off the infrastructure team 5059 already uses. There are quite a few things on here that i would much prefer to source from a cheaper source but are essentially place holders at the moment. Maybe someone will find it useful...

I'm struggling to find a good solution to a metal cutting band saw. Anyone have any thoughts on a good all around saw? we've used a 10in miter box with an aluminum blade but it's blown a few pieces out and generally seems sketchy. Maybe one of those portable band saws with a table attachment? is the small throat an issue?

Also not shown are:
-PWM (servo) cable, male/female servo ends and crimpers from readymaderc.com
-Plywood and 2x4's
-sheet rock screws

you can probably import this into excel... or if your really interested i can send you the spreadsheet with hyperlinks and cheaper sources...

Any input appreciated.

Line Quantity Product Unit Price Total Price

1 1 Each 6659A23 Heavy Duty Blind Rivet Tool Kit with 200 Rivets, Packed in a Plastic Box $43.93 $43.93

2 2 Packs 97447A025 Aluminum Blind Rivet with Aluminum Mandrel Domed, 1/8" Dia, .188"-.25" Material Thickness, Packs of 250 $7.76 $15.52

3 1 Pack 97447A145 Aluminum Blind Rivet with Aluminum Mandrel Domed, 1/8" Dia, .501"-.625" Material Thickness, Packs of 250 $10.07 $10.07

4 1 Pack 97447A055 Aluminum Blind Rivet with Aluminum Mandrel Domed, 3/16" Dia, .251"-.375" Material Thickness, Packs of 100 $6.52 $6.52

5 1 Each 5874A7 Forged Steel Nail Hammer with Hickory Handle Straight Claw, 16oz Head Wt, 13" L O'all, Painted Head $8.95 $8.95

6 1 Each 3417A6 Center-Marking Punch with Hex Handle 1/16" Point Diameter, 4" Long $4.00 $4.00

7 1 Each 39755A85 Bosch Jigsaw Model NO. JS470E $166.44 $166.44

8 2 Packs 4131A38 T-Shank Jigsaw Blade for Mtl, Fast-Cut Lg-Life, 11-14 Teeth Per Inch, Packs of 5 $11.50 $23.00

9 2 Packs 4131A71 T-Shank Jigsaw Blade for Mtl, Fast-Cut Lg-Life, 17-24 Teeth Per Inch, Packs of 5 $11.52 $23.04

10 2 Each 4077A1 Light Duty Hacksaw 10" Blade Length $13.90 $27.80

11 2 Packs 6927A18 Fast-Cut Lg-Life Hacksaw Blade, Packs of 5 $8.65 $17.30

12 1 Each 5256A1 Rotating Multijaw Bench Vise with Swivel Base 5-1/8" Pipe Jaw Width $225.69 $225.69

13 10 Each 7122A46 Hex L-Key 5/32" Sz, 4-7/16" O'all Lg. $0.34 $3.40

14 10 Each 7122A22 Hex L-Key 3/16" Sz, 3" O'all Lg. $0.29 $2.90

15 1 Each 37095A35 Ball-End T-Hndl Key Cushion-Grip, 5/32" Sz $3.54 $3.54

16 1 Each 37095A36 Ball-End T-Hndl Key Cushion-Grip, 3/16" Sz $3.63 $3.63

17 1 Each 2007A9 Combination Square Blade & SQ Head W/Level and Scriber, 12" SS Blade $11.13 $11.13

18 2 Each 2157A11 Scriber for Hardened STL and SS Straight Fixed Tip, Includes Pocket Clip $6.74 $13.48

19 1 Each 4253A16 Fixed Lg. Hvy Dty Deburring Tool w/ 5 Blades $11.43 $11.43

20 2 Each 2522A759 General Purpose Tap for Starting Thrds, 10-32 Thrd Sz $4.96 $9.92

21 1 Each 25605A63 Economy Tap Wrench for SQ Shank Sz 0.110" to 0.191", W/T-Hndl $5.95 $5.95

22 1 Each 1413K42 Tap Magic Cutting/Tapping/Threading Lubricant for Aluminum, 4-oz. Squeeze Bottle $3.57 $3.57

23 3 Each 3163A54 Double End HSS Drill Bit for Sheet Metal 1/8", 1-15/16" Overall Length, 9/16" Drill Depth $1.91 $5.73

24 3 Each 3163A75 Double End HSS Drill Bit for Sheet Metal 1/4", 2-5/8" Overall Length, 3/4" Drill Depth $3.71 $11.13

25 2 Each 2901A194 Black-Oxide HSS Jobbers' Drill Bit Wire GA 21, 3-1/4" Oal, 1.9" Drill Depth, 135Deg Point $1.84 $3.68

26 2 Each 2901A178 Black-Oxide HSS Jobbers' Drill Bit Wire GA 7, 3-5/8" Oal, 2.13" Drill Depth, 135 Deg Point $2.38 $4.76

27 1 Each 8875A14 Uncoated HSS Jobbers' Drill Set 15 Pcs, 1/16" to 1/2" X 32Nds, 118 Deg Bit Point $64.58 $64.58

28 1 Each 5386A8 Black Adjustable Wrench Standard, Plain Handle, 4" L, 1/2" Jaw Capacity $14.48 $14.48

29 1 Each 5386A2 Black Adjustable Wrench Standard, Plain Handle, 6" L, 15/16" Jaw Capacity $16.05 $16.05

30 1 Each 5386A3 Black Adjustable Wrench Standard, Plain Handle, 8" L, 1-1/8" Jaw Capacity $16.98 $16.98

31 2 Each 27875A51 Makita Cordless Tool Drill/Driver, 18 V, 1/2", 0-600/0-1900 NO Load rpm $186.25 $372.50

32 2 Each 54515A57 3/8" Nutdriver Bit, 1/4" Hex Shank $2.94 $5.88

33 2 Each 54515A55 5/16" Nutdriver Bit, 1/4" Hex Shank $2.25 $4.50

34 5 Each 83445A42 Slip-Rst Phillips Bit 1/4" Hex Shank for Power Tools, NO. 2 Sz, 2" O'all Lg. $1.89 $9.45

35 1 Each 4600A1 Hvy Dty Bench Grinder W/Wire Brush for 6" Whl Dia $393.55 $393.55

36 1 Each 9801T2 Mini-Tank Wet/Dry Vacuum 1 Gallon Plastic Tank, with 1-1/4" Dia Accessories $45.83 $45.83

37 1 Each 32605K44 Economy Heat Gun Selectable-Temp, 750 & 1000 Deg F, 1200 W $31.69 $31.69

38 1 Each 7123K1 Terminal Assortment Vinyl-Insulated, 490 Pieces $133.65 $133.65

39 1 Each 69555K62 Ratchet Crimper Standard, for 22-10 AWG Insulated Terminals $61.45 $61.45

40 2 Each 7294K14 Plier-Nose Wire Stripper for 24-14 AWG Solid/26-16 AWG Stranded $14.28 $28.56

41 1 Each 7872A91 Lead-Free Wire Solder for Electronics with Rosin Flux, 0.031" Diameter, 3/8 oz $6.55 $6.55

42 1 Each 7734A18 Variable-Temperature Soldering Station Analog $141.18 $141.18

43 3 Each 68025A55 10 ft./3 M Lg. High-Visibility Lufkin Tape Measure $7.20 $21.60

44 1 Each 5369A46 Vise-Grip Locking Plier 3-Piece Set, 10", 6-1/2" & 5" Sizes $29.74 $29.74

45 3 Pairs 53545T27 Cut-Resistant Kevlar Glove with Nitrile Palm Coating, Cut Level 2, Small $7.68 $23.04

46 5 Pairs 53545T27 Cut-Resistant Kevlar Glove with Nitrile Palm Coating, Cut Level 2, Medium $7.68 $38.40

47 5 Pairs 53545T27 Cut-Resistant Kevlar Glove with Nitrile Palm Coating, Cut Level 2, Large $7.68 $38.40

48 3 Pairs 53545T27 Cut-Resistant Kevlar Glove with Nitrile Palm Coating, Cut Level 2, X-Large $7.68 $23.04

49 2 Packs 54725T34 Roll Up Flared Bullet Earplugs W/Cord, Packs of 100 Pairs $31.80 $63.60

50 15 Each 54185T602 Economy Panoramic Safety Glasses W/Blue Polycarbonate Frame $2.32 $34.80

51 10 Each 62065T32 Eyeglass-Fit Visitors' Safety Glasses $2.73 $27.30

52 1 Each 5797A32 Economy 5-Piece All Purpose Pliers Set Cushion-Grip Handles, Packed in a Vinyl Pouch $40.73 $40.73

53 1 Pack 1661T11 Firm-Tip Ink Marker Fine Tip, Black, Packs of 12 $13.73 $13.73

54 4 Each 5133A18 Compact Iron C-Clamp 6" Max - 0 min Opening, 1200# Holding Capacity $13.29 $53.16

55 1 Each 5720A84 Cushion-Grip Screwdriver 6-PC Slotted and Phillips Set $24.96 $24.96

56 2 Each 52985A14 Precise-Control Screwdriver 0.118" Slotted, 5-3/4" O'all Lg. $4.06 $8.12

57 1 Each 4093A81 Hole Saw for Sheet Metal Kit with 7 Saws, 5/16" to 3/4" Diameters $79.67 $79.67

58 1 Each 4344A15 Kit, Dremel 4000-2/30 Electric Straight Light Dty Grinder for Bits and Burs $119.47 $119.47

59 1 Each 7351T14 Dust Brush with Plastic Bristles Gray, 8" L Brush, 2-1/2" L Bristle, 13-1/4" L O'all $6.45 $6.45

60 1 Each 7250T13 Economy Plastic Dust Pan 12-1/4" W X 8-1/4" D X 2-5/8" H, Black $6.23 $6.23

61 1 Each 4625A12 Heavy Duty Belt Sander 4" Wide $651.72 $651.72

62 4 Packs 95615A120 Zinc-Plated Grade 5 STL Nylon-Insert Locknut 1/4"-20 Thread Size, 7/16" Wide, 5/16" High, Packs of 100 $4.22 $16.88

63 4 Packs 90631A411 Low-Strength Steel Nylon-Insert Locknut Zinc-Plated, 10-32 Thread Size, 3/8" Wd, 15/64" Ht, Packs of 100 $3.21 $12.84

64 1 Pack 91251A537 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 1/2" Length, Packs of 100 $10.45 $10.45

65 1 Pack 91251A542 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 1" Length, Packs of 50 $7.84 $7.84

66 1 Pack 90044A123 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 1-1/2" Long, Fully Threaded, Packs of 50 $10.89 $10.89

67 3 Packs 90044A125 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 2" Long, Fully Threaded, Packs of 25 $6.85 $20.55

68 3 Packs 90044A127 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 2-1/2" Long, Fully Threaded, Packs of 25 $9.07 $27.21

69 1 Pack 91251A342 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 1/2" Length, Packs of 100 $9.25 $9.25

70 1 Pack 91251A345 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 3/4" Length, Packs of 100 $10.28 $10.28

71 2 Packs 91251A347 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 1" Length, Packs of 50 $8.10 $16.20

72 3 Packs 90044A118 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 1-1/2" Long, Fully Threaded, Packs of 25 $6.82 $20.46

73 4 Each 5163A14 Ratcheting Combination Wrench 3/8" Size, 6-11/16" O'all Length, Full Polish Chrm $18.96 $75.84

74 4 Each 5163A15 Ratcheting Combination Wrench 7/16" Size, 7-1/4" O'all Length, Full Polish Chrm $19.94 $79.76

75 4 Packs 92141A011 Type 18-8 Stainless Steel Flat Washer Number 10 Screw Size, 0.203" ID, 0.438" OD, Packs of 100 $2.33 $9.32

76 4 Packs 92141A029 Type 18-8 Stainless Steel Flat Washer 1/4" Screw Size, 0.281" ID, 0.625" OD, Packs of 100 $3.37 $13.48

77 1 Each 7893A21 Soldering Flux for Electronics NO Clean Pen, 0.3 oz $8.19 $8.19

78 2 Each 2521A571 General Purpose Tap for Starting Thrds, 1/4"-20 Thrd Sz $5.35 $10.70

79 2 Each 6334K41 Multi-Color Heat-Shrink Tubing Assortment 133-Piece $75.54 $151.08

80 1 Each 4996A52 Economy Electronic Caliper 0-6" (0-150mm) Range, 1-1/2" Jaw Depth $89.28 $89.28

81 1 Each 2742A515 Countersink for Aluminum, Brass, and Bronze 3-Flute, 120 Deg Angle, 3/4" Body Dia, 1/2" Shank Dia $29.79 $29.79

82 1 Each 28015A51 General Purpose 10" 5-Speed Bench Drill Press 620-3100 rpm, 115 VAC $213.82 $213.82

83 1 Each 3902A4 Sheet Metal Cutter 10" O'all Lg. $19.83 $19.83

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

You're definitely on the right track trying to find a cheaper place then McMaster. I would recommend a few things:

- Make sure the soldering iron you get has a stand or you get a stand for it
- The tin snips won't be much help cutting 1/8" sheet. They're designed for much thinner stuff
- You'll probably chew through those 1/8" drill bits really quickly if you ever drill out steel rivets. If you end up getting steel ones, stock up on drill bits.

Also, do you have a tool box/chest to store everything? If not, look into getting one so you can keep all of your stuff reasonably organized. And as far as the bandsaw, try looking for a used one. You might be able to get one for way less then new.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Adding onto the rivet thing, I highly recommend just using all-aluminum rivets. They are far easier to drill out than steel, and in the event that a rivet is set badly (the mandrel breaks well above the head) it's still easy to remove. With steel rivets in that situation, you are basically screwed.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

After having to remove a bunch of steel rivets this year with cheap-o 1/8 bits, I think we'll be moving over to aluminum. Thanks for the tip.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Aluminum rivets with steel mandrels are just as easy to remove, but install more reliably and are a smidge stronger. If you have the choice I'd get these.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

We used some of those this year and had issues removing them, both 3/16" and 1/8". Especially because some of our riveters are a little old/use swivel heads, they have trouble setting 3/16" aluminum w/ steel mandrel rivets.
We set some 3/16" rivets of this type on our original cheval de frise mechanism this year and when it came time to remove them, the portion of the mandrel still left in the rivet stopped use from being able to drill through, and we had to make a new part after having to drill a massive hole to fix the situation. Aluminum rivets are far safer IMO especially because more often I've had to deal with steel problem than with rivet shear problems. If I really need the extra strength I'll use screws.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

The most important things to have in order of value
1. Bandsaw
2. X-Carve® ( can cut aluminum, BUT you need to get the correct formulas
before doing it, this was designed for wood but it can cut metal so don't treat
it as a metal cnc mill)
3. Mill or jig bore
4. drill press
5. chop saw with metal blade
6. belt/disk sander are nice but files work the same.
7. CNC plasma cutter (this is the one machine i have not used so that's why it's at the bottom, and i would highly suggest getting another view on it)

After you have got the more cost friendly machines, i would suggest this \/\/
if you have around $7000-8000 dollars the next year. I would totally invest in a Tormach PCNC 770 Series 3 or PCNC 1100. You can go look at NYCNC on youtube, he's a machinist that uses this machine and shows you how to use it. it's worth taking a look at https://www.youtube.com/user/saunixcomp

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Why would you recommend getting a mill and CNC router before a drill press?

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

I think most people have overlooked, the fact that this $5000 budget isn't just for tools but it is also for parts.

It sounds like this year you mainly used parts from the KOP, going forward you might like to look at some of the COT’s offerings available from ANDYMARK and VEXpro. There are plenty of parts that can be used nearly every season and some which are a bit more specialised.

If your looking for things like gearboxes to operate robot mechanisms, the Versa-planetary range from VEXpro is good. Unlike other planetary gearboxes on the FRC COTs market they are completely customisable allowing a huge range of reduction options. They can also utilise a large range of motors allowing you access to the most powerful motors allowed in FRC. They are of higher quality, and there are a number of different output shafts available although ½ hex is probably best for what you are doing.

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/mo...planetary.html

The purchase of a set Versa-planetaries, and motors like bag’s and 775pros will be a good investment and something that you’ll be able to use for many seasons providing you take good care of them. Buy a few base-kits and various reduction stages in the off-season and you’ll be able to have a bit of practise assembling them and perhaps use them in an off-season project.

I would put aside at least $1500 for robot part related purchases during next season.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

I would just like to say that the automatic wire stripper we got this year was the best $10 we spent all season(at least for the electrical team :rolleyes: ). It is just a small thing, but it made wiring the robot so much easier.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

-I recommended the Hakko FX888D Soldering Station from spark fun though i haven't used it. Any thoughts?

-As far as the snips we plan on raiding the remnant section of our local metal supply store. ~1.59/lb is MUCH cheaper than the cost of new sheet, its actually a 80 mile drive for us to our metal supply store and it is worth it! We can fairly consistently find decent sheet there thin enough to cut yet thick enough to use as gusseting I usually compare it to the thickness of a credit card. we also pick up thicker stuff (about 0.1") that we cut with the jig saw. the thin stuff works really fast but can leave an ugly burr an easy solution is to just wrap the sharp edge with adhesive back neoprene Mcmaster carr # 8694K78 .

-As far as the Drill bits, we've had them through two build seasons and have yet to break one (or even burn one). The advantage is that they are short so it reduces the risk of blowing through the back side of a hole and into something that can bend and snap the bit. It helps we run all aluminum rivets, i don't like the steel because it can make the hole walk.

-pick up a few scrap lengths of aluminum about 3/8 in dia 15-36" in lenght. if you need a super long drill bit just place the desired drill bit size in a vise and put the Al rod into the drill and drill it as straight as you can onto the drill bit. (this keeps the hole parallel on the rod, centered will be up to you) then take the drill bit out of the vise and superglue it into the hole on the rod. Viola long drill bit in any size you need...

-for storage I've found that roll around tool boxes can have a fairly high $/usable storage volume so I prefer Harbor Freights 8 bin plastic cases ( Item#93927). They are cheap, reasonably durable and the bins can be partially or completely removed to store larger items/tools. plus bins can be separated into lighter quantities so you don't end up rolling a 300lb monster into the pits. Also I prefer bins and shelves over tool boxes because it is scale-able. you may have barely one box of hardware your first year but soon enough you'll have several boxes of 1/4-20 and 10-32.

-As a side note I avoid taking hardware out of their original packaging, you never know who may be trying to re-order and being able to look at the part number on the box saves everyone a lot of time.

- Also I totally agree with roboruler and wish I would have known about Versa-planetary gear boxes a long time ago. One thing to consider if you are with a school is; getting vendors added to your schools purchasing system and getting Open PO's (PO is Purchase Order basically an agreement to buy/do business between two companies) in place before build season starts for key vendors i.e. andymark, Vex, Mcmaster. Especially during build season by the time you get a quote, turn it into a requisition and have the school purchasing dept approve and send the PO to the vendor you may find your item is long out of stock. Open PO's basically allow you to spend up to a specific amount and can be fulfilled much faster. Get your stuff in 1 week rather than 3 or not at all

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Has anyone used the Harbor freight 14in 4 speed band saw?

http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-4...saw-60564.html

-The lowest blade speed is 568fpm which seems reasonable, though I think lower would be better... would it?
-93.5 blade so it should be pretty easy to get blades.

Does anyone know of a comparable 120V 14" saw that runs slow enough to cut metal that isn't unreasonably huge or $1800?

Or am i getting to hung up on blade speed? should I just get a small woodcutting saw and toss a metal blade on it and assume it is ok? I feel like I'm missing something and that there should be a better market for a benchtop metal cutting band saw.

Also can anyone specifically recommend an economical drill press? My team bought one off of grainger and right out of the box it had some disgusting run out, so bad that we hardly use it. I think we would have gotten the same or better at HFT.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

A lot of the 14" bandsaws are more or less the same, but a few have some notable differences. The step pulleys for multiple speeds on the Harbor Freight unit you linked are rather unique. I've looked at the saw in the store several times, and it doesn't seem like a bad saw at all.

For cutting aluminum, a somewhat high blade speed with the right blade is actually preferred. We cut aluminum on a wood-cutting bandsaw all the time. We've owned the Grizzly G0555X for about a year now and it has served us very well. It's powerful and smooth running. In fact, I don't think we've ever even broken a blade on it. Some of the unique features here are a pretty large 1.5HP motor and full ball-bearing blade support (6 bearings) and the nice fence, the heavy base cabinet, and worklight.

At home, I have a Delta 14" 3/4 HP with the sheet metal base stand. It's probably the most popular model of 14" bandsaw of all time, and there's a lot of aftermarket support for it through vendors like Rockler. It's not a bad saw at all. I like the blade guide adjustments on it and the quick release blade tension lever, but the 3/4" HP motor can be a little weak at times and the rigidity of the base could be better. The newer offering from Lowes is this Porter Cable which I've looked at in the store, and seems pretty decent.

The big thing with all bandsaws is you really want to look at how all the components relating to adjustment of any sort are made. Blade guides, blade tension, blade tracking, and the table trunnions. Differences in these areas are where certain saws outperform or outlive the others.

If you want to cut steel, you will need a much slower bandsaw, and the 568FPM of the Harbor Freight saw is likely still far too fast. When you want to cut steel, it becomes a whole different type of saw you need.

On blades, stick with Lenox, Morse, or Starret bi-metal blades. It makes a big difference on any saw.

On drill presses, we've owned the older DP1500 model of this Ridgid one from home depot for the last 15 years and it has served us very well. But, I can stall it on bigger drills and hole saws.

Lowes has a Porter Cable that looks pretty decent for the price, and I like the keyed chuck better.

Students really seem to like variable speed drill presses, since none of them realize how easy it is to change belt speeds (lazy bums :-) ).

One thing to look at on drill presses is the area where the column attaches to the base. On many drill presses I've seen and owned, this area does not have enough material, and it can flex.

For large drills, hole saws, and countersinks, on both of those listed above, the minimum speed of 300 RPM is still a little fast. For that reason, the next drill press I buy might be the Grizzly G0779.

Finally, the Harbor Freight 20" 12-speed drill presses at least on paper seem to offer a lot more than the Lowes and Home Depot offerings, for not a lot more money, especially if you use one of their always-available 20% coupons to buy it. And it goes as slow as 180 RPM, which is important, especially if you ever plan to work in steel.

One last thing you want to look at is how drill presses handle the depth stop. Some do it in different ways, and not all of the ways to do it are real great. It's an important feature not to be overlooked.

As with any machinery purchase, they say to buy the biggest that you can afford and can fit in the shop (and through your doorway), because there will always be a bigger job that will make you wish you had bought the bigger machine.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

I see this hasn't been brought up or mentioned but I want to throw it out there.

Is your team or have you considered being incorporated as a 501(c)3 tax exempt organization (team!)? Yes, there are requirements and steps have to be followed but 237 has been one since shortly after it was formed. This has enabled us to get donations of equipment, including Bridgeports, one right from where I work when they upgraded to Prototraks 11 years ago. A donation to the team and a tax write off for the company. Even was able to get a local autobody shop to donate 1.5 hours of their time and a rollback to move it.

It's just something to consider that can help in the long run.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

when it comes down to it. you can use a hand drill. Out of all the 5 years iI have built robots, I've only used a drill press a handful of times (less then 20). I prefer a mill over drill press as it's far more accurate :D it may take longer but the end results are far better, and if it needed to be quick, I used a hand drill, once you get good at it, their isn't that much of a need for it IMO.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

OK, now here's a question...

You have limited budget for tools, and nobody knows how to use a mill.

Does the mill still come before the drill press?



(Hint: the answer isn't "yes". BTW, my team is still working on getting a mill up and running--we've got 4 drill presses, and they see heavy use.)

A drill press is useful for drilling lots of holes, and most particularly for precision thru-holes. Can a mill do that, sure (and I'll concede that it can probably do some aspects better). But if you ain't got the budget for a mill and all its tooling, get a drill press, a couple of punches, and a really good pair of calipers. Oh, and a vise for the drill press, if you've got anything left over. Should be a lot cheaper, and do the hole-drilling job just find. Don't try milling with it, though.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Very extensive list! As for the band saws, I've used a Delta vertical band saw for cutting metal. Not sure of the model, but it performed well, though it currently has some issue where it's not reaching the set speed, and can be stalled with anything. I've also used this Harbor Freight saw, which can be vertical or horizontal. It's good for cutting metal, and will go through thick 80/20 fairly quickly. While I didn't use it myself, I saw no problems with a JET vertical bandsaw. Ryobi has a decent vertical, but I've only used it to cut wood(which it does very well!) It's similar to this one, but the older blue color. The cordless portable ones are surprisingly useful, but the small throat is definitely an issue if you need to cut something long/big/wide. I would advise getting a large bandsaw first, unless you only need to do small stuff. It's great for shortening screws!

Yes, but belt sanders are big time savers. If you have a long piece of metal with a lot of big burrs/sharp points on one side or you need to flatten or round a corner, that would take a while filing by hand...It's like trying to cut a think steel bar with a hacksaw. Hand files are good for smaller jobs and/or precise work, though.

Some power tools/machines I would recommend, in no order:

Chop saw - Good for quickly cutting almost anything from HDPE and PVC to aluminum and probably steel, though a bandsaw is probably better for cutting metal, as the noise produced by a chop saw on metal is bothersome after about 10 seconds. And a bandsaw is far less likely to turn your workpiece into a bullet. ::safety::

Reciprocating saw(Sawzall) - Like chop saws and bandsaws, they can cut a lot of things, but they're much more maneuverable. Especially good for cutting long workpieces that won't fit in a saw. However, the vibrations can cause the blade to jump out of the cut, but once you get the cut started, it goes right through. If one or more ends of a workpiece need to be held in place, use a vise. DO NOT hold it with your hands, especially not against a table/bench/any surface while it is being cut with a recip saw unless you have on VERY thick gloves. ::ouch::

Angle grinder - Useful for deburring steel or iron, rounding corners, cutting, making flat areas on motor shafts, removing protruding screw threads, anything else there's a grinder wheel for. Probably one of the most satisfying tools in existence, if not THE most satisfying.

Dremel - Is there anything Dremels can't do?

Cordless drills are always in use - make sure you have enough batteries! Just avoid nicads. And don't forget screwdriver bits.

Air compressor - Use it for cleaning, inflating tires, drilling, grinding, stapling, nailing, riveting, cutting, whatever there's an air tool for...

Maybe a jig saw if you do any intricate cutting and a circular saw if you use a lot of wood. Table saws are good if you need precision for woodcutting. I haven't cut anything on a table saw that couldn't have been cut with a circular or reciprocating saw, but it did save time and the cuts were more accurate than they would have been otherwise.

I think that's all I can think of for now...

TL;DR: I've used a lot of bandsaws, belt sanders save time, chop saws, Sawzalls, and Dremels are great, angle grinder = Most. Satisfying. Tool. EVER.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

In my experience a Dremel or similar rotary tool has never been a preferred tool in any circumstance. I have not encountered a situation where it gave a favorable outcome over a more proper tool. I'm kind of wondering why I still have one taking up drawer space honestly.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

When I have to cut the end off a screw, the main thing I go to is a dremel because of the small form factor and ability to get into tight spaces. They are versatile enough that we take them to the comps with us instead of angle grinders and the like.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

When I was on my older team I got to lead a group of my fellow students to rebuild a lathe and a jig bore, which can be used as a mill.
These machines were honestly, really cheap. For this lathe we paid $700 ( and fixed it up for about another $150 most of it was spent on the paint, oil, and a ACME tap) and the same amount for the jig/mill. http://imgur.com/a/BZheX (I could not find the mill unfortunately)

Here's the website we got it from, this company can be negotiated with to lower the price, https://hgrinc.com

lastly, I'm not saying that a drill press isn't important to have, what I am saying though; is that having a mill can do what a drill press can and more. So instead of spending more on both machines, get the mill first, or just by a small bench top drill press at harbor Freight for about $200 Again this is just my view on the matter

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

I am assuming that you have already purchased your equipment - no matter what you settled on, it will be beneficial.

Now that the season is over, I hope you have a plan to bring in more sponsors. If not, you are already behind. Here is what you do:

Create three lists:
The first list should be of possible sponsors. Find a connection to each of these (members, parents that are involved on your team that know a person). Then go after them ruthlessly. Beg for a presentation by your team and then march out the best students that can spout the ethos of your program. Make certain you bring a working robot that they can see.

The second list is what you need to be competitive in the next five years. Once you know this, you can start knocking off the machines as you gain more sponsors.

The final list is of possible fundraisers and outreach events. Never discount the energy of your members and how creative they can be. Figure out ways to raise money and ways to get in front of the public.

Good Luck!

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Here's a metal cutting saw that I have used for our team for small pieces typically used with a FRC team (1inch by 2 inch rectangular tubing). http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...4829&category= This saw can be brought to an FRC event. We also have a larger metal cutting saw in our workshop area.

This season we used a Ryobi chop saw TS1345L and stand A18MS016 donated from Home Depot with a 100 tooth non-ferrous cutting blade http://www.amazon.com/Oshlun-SBNF-10.../dp/B0012YMVBE with much success on the many thin pieces of aluminum used with the KOP chassis build. For safety we purchased a face shield http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Clear-...0025/202195394. If you use a cheap chop saw blade to cut aluminum you end up with a lot of flying debris that requires the use of an inexpensive face shield ($14) in addition to standard safety glasses.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Honest question: are there advantages of a horizontal bandsaw over a vertical one other than the automatic feed?

I would think the cost. A machine tool supplier near us has horizontal bandsaws under ~850CAD. The cheapest vertical bandsaw they have is over 3500CAD. Now, these are both purpose built for metal cutting so you could still possibly convert a vertical wood bandsaw for much less.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Automatic feed is a huge advantage. When cutting thicker materials it makes a big difference in blade life.

A horizontal is also more likely to have a wider blade, which is going to cut straighter and withstand more blade tension.

Most importantly it's going to give you a much straighter cut than a vertical purely because the material is static and the blade is moving. This is important for anything going on a mill/lathe.

If you can only buy one though, the vertical is the way to go.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Why? A lathe or mill that is properly trammed should be setting the standard for machined surfaces both parallel and at a sever. A ground surface is a level above that for flatness.

I would think the only way that is true is if your cut is very close to target material size leaving nothing to further true-up.

We've been known to rough drive train plates on the CNC plasma cutter because it's fast but the cuts are nasty. We then clean up on the mill.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

One other advantage of most horizontal saws is that you can cut long objects. Many vertical saws have a "throat" that only allows for 12-36" depending on the saw size. Most horizontal saws tweak the angle of the blade such that the saw can cut any length of material. Long material may require additional supports to keep cuts straight and material from falling.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Obviously a lathe / mill is going to give you a flatter face than any saw, but it's still nice for roughing out stock to start with a semi-flat face to clamp on.

I like horizontal band saws - if I was starting a shop from scratch and could only have one big saw, I would probably get a portable band saw with a table stand for vertical cutting and then a full size horizontal for cutting out stock and whatnot.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Important for a number of reasons. Minimizing stock size needed for a part. Minimizing variation in size from part to part, which is more important for CNC since you're taking a fixed number of passes and you don't want to program for the length of Part A then find out Part B is .125" taller (an exaggeration, but it can happen). An easier scenario that will screw everything up is a part that has left and right edges that make it a parallelogram, due to non straight cuts, which can no longer act as registers for a fixed stop on the vise, since your origin is moving dramatically with each part change.

Sometimes based on the size stock you have on hand, you need to hold the cut faces in a vise, not the stock edges. The more parallel they are to each other the easier that is. Sometimes you cut bar stock and you need to stand it up on the edge that was cut. Again, the more perpendicular to the stock edges, the better.

When using the lathe sometimes you'll have pieces that are too large in diameter to hold with jaws in their standard configuration and you end up flipping the jaws and holding the part on the stepped portion of the jaws. If your bottom surface sitting against the step on the jaw isn't flat you end up with a lot of runout on the part, which is a PITA. Likewise if you're cutting something too short to be clamped by the full length of the jaws you don't get proper self centering of the part and you need to stick parallels or something else against the face of the chuck and seat your part flat against them. If the part doesn't have a flat face you get the same runout problem.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Okay I can see that.

However usually if I want 2 or more pieces to be extremely close in size I palatize or stack them and that way any runout is likely uniform.

For your lathe example with, I assume is a 4 independent jaw chuck, I can see that you're trying to save an operation.

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Even if you stack two pieces and cut them on a vertical bandsaw that doesn't mean the cuts are actually straight. Anyone who is cutting any quantities greater than 2-3 of barstock or tube to go into a mill or lathe would be much better off with a horizontal from a cut quality, squareness, and time standpoint.

I'm referring to a 3 jaw self centering chuck. If you are only clamping onto say 1/4" of length on the part you can easily end up with the part skewed in the jaws. You need to be clamping onto substantially more to guarantee that the stock is coaxial to the jaws (at least without tapping it into alignment).

Re: Workshop/Tools/Parts
 

Sure but if you stack and bolt 2 or more plates to the surface of a sacrificial plate on a mill that usually doesn't matter.

As a matter of practice I usually try to run an indicator (coaxial, reference object, edge finder, or dial test) against anything I put in a lathe chuck. Either on the outside diameter or the inside diameter where that is applicable. I've worked on too many saws that wouldn't cut straight enough I could trust them. For example a cheap Chinese horizontal bandsaw with no hydraulic down feed even under proper tension might not cut straight from the pressure angle of the blade changing from the weight of saw assembly around the blade. This becomes less an issue on that same saw if you put a hydraulic downfeed retrofit on it like I did in my home shop (it's a surplus pneumatic piston rigged with hydraulic fluid).