How do I help my area move to districts?
 

As requested by both cadandcookies and JABot67, this has been moved to a new thread.

I've titled the thead as "How do I help my area move to districts?", as that seems what the general question/topic discussion was about in the Districts 2017 thread. I also believe it would be beneficial to the readers of ChiefDelphi to have a discussion on how you can help your area move to districts. Who do you contact in your area to join the RPC or train in Key Volunteers? How do you become involved at the planning level and what are some best practices to do this?

I've also included the original comments below.

Sometimes trying to join the RPC or help train in key volunteers isn't as easy as it should be.

I was pm'd this document by recent alumni in the state of Minnesota. I am told that it is given to all of the recent FIRST alumni attending a specific University by the RPC. I was also told that these students have all but stopped volunteering at FRC events in the state because they feel that they are not wanted/liked. The document seems fairly professional but I could understand how if it was presented in the wrong way it would burn some bridges.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

As a Senior Volunteer Coordinator, I look for volunteers who are always willing to help. The people who arrive early to help set-up and who stay late to take-down the field often become great Key Volunteers later, because they are willing to help with the grunt work when there isn't an audience to watch.

This year we are also doing a lot of training for roles. We have three different people training for FTAA roles by helping in various positions around the field.

I've noticed that sometimes Key Volunteers become possessive of their roles, feeling like they spent so many years volunteering that they earn the right to the position, and they don't like when new people start training or moving their way up the ladder. It's important to remember that almost every area needs more volunteers, and just because someone new is training or being moved up, doesn't mean your key position is going away.

So, how do you help prepare your area for Districts?
1. Be willing to do the grunt work, like staying late and packing fields.
2. Be willing to train other people for roles, including your own.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

As someone a bit more familiar with the Minnesota situation, this document is extremely concerning.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

What volunteer roles have you served in the past?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

This seems to be Minnesota's biggest problem. They're actively holding back districts by not training new key volunteers. There seems to be a major power struggle by MN FIRST and the volunteers that want to help. That document posted above basically proves that. I'm sure there are more volunteers that would want to help, but they are getting actively denied. It seems like CA has the same issue too, which is bad because MN and CA are the 2 regions that NEED to move to districts ASAP. Hearing stories from these areas that the Regional Committees are trying to implement gag orders on CD about those areas does not help either.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I would be interested (and likely saddened) by the number of alumni that received this document and subsequently decided to stop their involvement in FIRST.

While I find a hard time believing that is the intent of the document, I also find it hard to imagine I wouldn't be turned off from continuing my involvement upon the receipt of this.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Collin would you give some advice to us, we want to follow the way Indiana went to districts we have 50 teams now and have growth potential but all schools see are the outrageous dollar signs. As for me I was the head of the planning committee for our off-season event and we realized that by training our seniors and alumni in volunteer roles as well as getting help from the local Air Force base we were able to fill the volunteer positions quickly but our biggest downfall is getting more teams in our area that will do FRC.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

....

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Regardless of the wording, this is saying at best, even with the benefit of the doubt, "We need meat to fill meat positions. Don't expect to be meaningful meat, because you're still just meat".

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

duplicate

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Maybe this thread is trolling, but I honestly do not see the document in a negative light. Basically, I see it as setting reasonable expectations for volunteers.

Face it: You're not going to be a LRI the first or second year you volunteer, particularly if you are under 21. But be an RI for 2 years, shadow the LRI one year, and then speak to your LRI and VC and see what they can do. If that's what you want, you can do it.

For all who are complaining: Tell us your experience volunteering and if you have volunteered in VIMS (for what/where/when?) and not been asked to attend.

I am not as twitchy about anonymous user accounts, but please understand that it is highly frowned upon, and not a sign of courage. You want change, stand up and name yourself.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I don't see anything disturbing or off-putting about that document. It seems quite reasonable to me. It basically says not to think that you "deserve" a Key Volunteer position before you've demonstrated yourself, and suggests how you can go about doing that. Unless there's something else that people are being told beyond what it says, I do not understand why anyone would be upset by it.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Here's what was off-putting to me.

As a college student, I am unbelievably lucky to live 2 blocks from an FRC team. However, not every student has that opportunity. Their only lasting connection to FIRST may be volunteering.

Like I said in my post, I am not saying that this post is blatantly saying "We don't want you."

HOWEVER, what this document does do is make a college student like me feel not welcome. The sheer tone of this is terribly off-putting.

A region (especially one that is hoping/should be hoping to move to districts) should always be actively seeking volunteers. Beyond the active seeking of volunteers, they should be actively training new people to fill new jobs, as more events will require more key volunteers.

Furthermore, I have countless friends my age, or just older than me, that ARE key volunteers in their areas (FTAs, Refs, planning committee members). There is no reason to discourage a student from seeking a position like this. While not every college student is as great as Dave Givens (New England FIRST'S future), we can still contribute and (apparently contrary to popular belief) be leaders with key positions.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I would agree.

The main interesting parts of this documents are the parts that explicitly lay out things that should be obvious.

What is the reason for this paragraph? It seems to be a reference to specific events. It doesn't seem likely to me that this is a repeated problem that needs to be addressed in a blanket statement to all FRC alumni at a university.

Most volunteers are very unlikely to "screw up". Why bring this up with all college-aged volunteers? If you have a problem with only a few college-aged volunteers, perhaps it would be good to talk to them on an individual basis.

If you have a problem with more than a few of them, perhaps there is a bigger conflict.

It doesn't seem like there's good communication between the sides here. If this document has really left some alumni with a bad taste in their mouths, perhaps it would be good to make amends and create a culture of understanding.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

This document is extremely appalling and not in the spirit of FIRST.
As a region struggling to get volunteers, Minnesota should not discourage young adults from contributing.
In fact, young adults just out of FIRST are some of the most passionate and empathetic to the needs and challenges facing teams.

Volunteering as a college student and getting into those key roles is a great way to maintain FIRST alumni's connection with the community.

I'm two years out of high school and have key positions within FIRST California. I am honored to have those positions based on hard work, but the fact that my fellow alumni in Minnesota don't have the opportunity is disturbing.

With Minnesota moving to districts soon, the board should look into encouraging college students to become key volunteers.
I have friends from all over the country in college that are FTA's in Michigan, head refs in Canada, regional committee members in NE, and more.
These regions are doing well in the eyes of inspiring and maintaining teams, Minnesota should strive to do the same.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I honestly don't see anything there that gives a "not welcome" tone. On the contrary, it starts with the command DO volunteer often and energetically.

Isn't that what the document is about? It is a guide for how you should work toward becoming whatever kind of volunteer you want. It makes that explicit in the first paragraph.

Seriously, what's going on that I am not seeing? Every Key Volunteer I know was a "regular" volunteer for at least a couple of years first. That's what the document is saying. It isn't telling anyone not to aspire to a Key Volunteer position. What it's telling people is how to become a Key Volunteer.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I have to ask, how many volunteers see teams only when they are smiling?

As an inspector and ref (and a CSA, but I am unsure if the intended audience of the document would be eligible for that position) I have had to tell teams things that were at the very least disappointing. Things like "You received a foul because your robot extended too high in that match" or "Your bumpers do not meet the 8 inch requirement, you need to make them larger or build new ones". According to the document something needed to change after I made those statements because someone on the team frowned. I guess that means I screwed up and that puts my quest to be a LRI or Head Ref back one or two years of volunteering in a lower profile position. As important as the safety glasses table position is, to move someone there from inspecting will probably make them frown.

I know I am applying the document somewhat harshly, but for someone who has never been a volunteer, I would be scared to tell a team any bad news.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I tell ya, kids these days...

Wait, crap.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Volunteer #1: I am a volunteer who has been trained in a key position and served as a diligent volunteer spending hundreds of dollars in hotel costs who is now told I can only run safety glasses and the practice field. Without anyone telling me what changed or why I can't serve in my key position.

Volunteer #2: I'm an alumni that can run and coordinate a district event when I'm at college but when I travel home I can only run safety glasses.

Volunteer #3: I'm a graduate from a FRC team in Minnesota who has volunteered as field reset for four years after graduating but still isn't given any other field position no matter how many times I ask.

Volunteer #4: I'm a volunteer who registered to help queue but I'm told there are not any positions available, followed by an email to coaches the next day requesting more queuers to volunteer.

Volunteer #5: I am a volunteer who has been a robot inspector since graduating high school 6 years ago. In Minnesota I have expressed interest in FTAing, CSAing and score keeping but have never been assigned. I then am offered spots as a FTA or CSA in other areas around the United States.

Volunteer #6: As a student, I was spoken to about my social media posts, as they were showing MN FIRST in a bad light and told to delete what I posted. Now I've only been offered spots as Field Reset.

This is a small sampling of volunteer stories from the Minnesota Regionals.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

It's a combination of what this document says and what is actually happening with the intended audience of this document (which I assume is the GOFIRST group at the University of Minnesota).

There's been friction between the alumni of MN FIRST and the RPC. A big point of contention here is the current double-regional event format of Minnesota. The young alumni want to switch to districts, and want to get involved and start the conversation and the planning required to get there. Everyone is aware this is a big undertaking that requires several years to implement right. However, the leadership in MN is very attached to their double regional format, knowing they run the "biggest and best" regionals in the country. The alumni want to get their teams more bang for their buck, but the RPC doesn't want to lose the media attention for FIRST that these events gain. Of course, on top of this, there are the normal concerns that everyone has with transitioning to districts (finding venues, volunteers, etc). Due to all of these factors, it appears that the RPC believes their current system to be superior, and therefore does not want to pursue transitioning to districts at all.

Like Bailey said, one of the few ways that college students can reasonably stay involved in FRC is volunteering. However, students who sign up to volunteer are repeatedly being assigned to more menial, untrained roles or just being told that they're not needed. A dear friend of mine (who already had previous experience volunteering as an inspector in New England), was assigned to the practice field. When she showed up to the regional, the volunteer desk was empty. After tracking one of the event staff down, she was told they had enough volunteers for that day, and she should come back tomorrow.

Honestly, the purpose of this document seems to be to deter any of these alumni from believing that they could make a real difference in the direction Minnesota is heading. The overall message seems to be this; "Play by our rules, listen to everything we say, and don't say anything about it."

Now this may sound cynical, but this is how I'm reading this document given the situation. Each number refers to the subsequent DO and DONT in the letter.

1. If you really care about FRC, you'll do whatever volunteer position we assign you to, regardless of what you aspire to be.

2. This seems to be specifically targeting the fact that college students will often have class on Wednesday and Thursday.

3. Do whatever the RPC and existing KVs tell you to do.

4. Don't talk about any of this publicly, no matter how discontent you are.

5. If you do volunteer, always do what your Key Volunteer superior says.

6. Don't expect to get a more important volunteering position anytime soon.

7. Re 6: Probably at least 6+ years before you're a key volunteer.

8. Now this is the real kicker. Many of these disgruntled alumni have been switching to volunteering for FLL and FTC events, and have been much happier since. A different nonprofit organization, High Tech Kids, is the FIRST partner for FLL and FTC in Minnesota. Many young alumni agree this group is more effectively run. There have been talks of HTH and MN FIRST merging, as MN FIRST does not have nonprofit status necessary for MN to switch to districts. However, there's rumors that this merger is halted due to conflicting opinions over who would actually be in charge after the merger. This paragraph is basically saying "Don't expect MN FIRST to be like High Tech Kids."

9. Most of the kids who want to continue supporting FRC are enthusiastic about the program. This is basically telling these kids that they need to tone down their enthusiasm if they want to volunteer?

10. So you screwed up...
This seems pretty clear to me. If you don't play by the rules, you're not getting any volunteer positions past field reset or practice field.


Yes, a lot of what is in this document is generally good advice for new volunteers. However, given the scenario, this basically seems like a letter from the dictatorship telling the people to not challenge their authority.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I am very confused. I feel like I asked a fairly easy question to answer. The answer will help form my answer to the original question.

Perhaps I was asking too much from an account that uses a fake name?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Hi - Great question. You're absolutely right that the investment in FRC can be overwhelming to some.

Your experiences are a great start. Hopefully your off-season event was a success.

Perhaps the largest initial hurdle is a state (or district) wide 501c3 non-profit who can act as the "Headquarters" for FIRST in that state. In Indiana, that non-profit is IndianaFIRST. FIRST HQ signs a Memorandum of Understanding with that organization, who then executes FRC in the area.

That non-profit has to show FIRST that I can represent the interests of teams in the entire area, as well as fundraise enough to support events and a local staff. How large that staff is varies by area.

My suggested first step: Start holding district information sessions at your regionals and off-season events. Listen to feedback from people. Shockingly, most people involved in FIRST are not on Chief Delphi. Odds are that there are many in your area that don't understand what "Districts" are. Also, be prepared for pushback. There will be some who do not see this as a net positive for them. As an example, in Indiana, many of the teams around the Chicago area were used to going to the Midwest Regional as their "home" regional. So the whole "this will save travel costs" argument didn't really apply to them. We, as IndianaFIRST, need to take that into consideration.

Please, continue to ask good questions. There are lots of people here to help.

Thank you!

-CF

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I'd like to start by stating that these are my own thoughts and opinions, and do not necessarily reflect the views of any groups I am or have been a part of.

I was a student at the presentation at which this document was distributed. In my opinion, the document itself is not inherently negative and would not, on its own, make me feel unwelcome or uncomfortable volunteering as a part of Minnesota FIRST. That being said, the context in which the document was distributed made me feel uncomfortable and has discouraged me from seeking volunteer roles as an official regional volunteer.

As a student who attended the presentation, I was surprised for several reasons. The meeting at which the presentation occurred was part of a regular sequence of meetings in which university faculty and outside corporate employees give talks about their work. That particular meeting had been advertised as a "an inside look into life as an engineer and success after college from *speaker name redacted* who works at *company name redacted*", and was something I had genuinely looked forward to based on the extensive industry experience the speaker seemed to have and my interest in the company they work at. Unfortunately, once the meeting began it quickly changed focus to discussing FIRST volunteer feedback.

Overall, the demeanor of the meeting felt very negative towards volunteers, specifically college age students. Perhaps I misunderstood the speaker's intentions, but as someone who was on an MN FRC team in high school and was looking forward to potentially volunteering at a Minnesota regional, the impression that I left with was that the authors of the document felt college students were likely to screw up and should not be trusted with positions of responsibility. There was a strong emphasis (at least in my opinion) that we were unable to separate our volunteering from our past connections in FIRST, and that we shouldn't expect to be given any meaningful positions due to our age.

I hope to volunteer for FIRST in the future, but unless things change, I doubt it will be in Minnesota.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I'm in Michigan and am a college senior (you know all the warnings to freshman about overextending? the warning really should be to seniors). I'm lead mentor for 1 FTC team and 1 FRC team, and was head ref at an FLL event and ref at FTC state champs. If I wasn't so busy right now, I would strongly consider being an FRC ref as well (and probably will next year).

From my same university is another senior who is now an FTA (and the only one based in the UP). Other college students there have been CSAs, lead queuer, defense coordinator, head ref, emcee/game announcer, and maybe safety adviser?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Looks like this person was a robot inspector for many years in the past (bold), wants to be a queuer or something else if they can't be an RI (underlined), but has grown weary of the scenario they have to deal with in terms of the what the RPC in Minnesota "operates" (under the guidance of HQ as they are not an independent NPC).

I don't operate anywhere close to Minnesota and I will not speculate what may or may not be happening but if it looks like x and smells like x, I don't want to see if it tastes like x.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Can you suspend your disbelief and assume that these are independent stories that correspond to some number of actual people? Is it possible to form an answer then?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

You know how in real life you have a conversation with someone but they don't listen to you, but just hear enough to make some counterpoint that is just supposed to put you on your heels?

It's really annoying in all media of communication but it is especially silly on the internet when some sort of on demand text or audiovisual conversation can be guided at will.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Don,

I agree with you that most everything in that document is technically correct and I'm sure it was well intentioned attempt to level set expectations.

However, I think it also comes across as tone deaf. Do you sell FRC to incoming freshman by saying, "Well, our robot is probably going to be a box on wheels for a few years, and you won't get a chance to do any of the limited cool work on the team until maybe your senior year."?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

All of these stories are very troubling.

I hope that enough complaints from alumni in the state will change the attitudes of these individuals running the show up in MN. Maybe the "Rulers" of MN FIRST will realize they're shooting themselves in the foot by treating prospective volunteers this way.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Yes, usually the kindest to students, and also professional and competent. It's awesome to see some of these college students in Michigan excelling in key positions!

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I'm not surprised that there are a lot of people upset with what position they got as a volunteer. In the end though someone is always going be upset because there are only a limited number of positions.
However a few of the details where volunteers are being left in the dark with information is rather troubling...

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Collin, I apologize if I caused you any confusion. Each paragraph is an individual account from a different volunteer, if you have additional questions or clarifications feel free to PM me.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Ok now I'm with Collin and a little confused...

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I can attest to this. I go to college in Western Kentucky and there are 0 active FIRST teams anywhere in my area, much less a competition. By happenstance I will be in town for North Star this year and was very excited as this will be my only contribution to FIRST this year. After reading all of the volunteer positions my top request was to be a judge assistant. I did FRC all 4 years of high school and was the head captain of my team. I know the in's and out's of the awards given and figured this would be the perfect entry-level position. I eventually got assigned flags (MC assistant) which I am more than happy to do and completely understand that the judge assistant roll might have already been filled by someone who has done it in the past. However, it would be nice upfront to be told that first year volunteers/college students can only apply for certain positions. Advertising a role as "no prior volunteer experience needed" when you want someone with experience to do it seems misleading to me.

Call me a drama queen but these are all deeply saddening. No one should ever feel demoted, degraded, or left out in an activity that is suppose to be for everyone. As a volunteer you are essentially giving a piece of yourself to FIRST. There are a million other things these people, especially college kids, could be doing on the weekends but they are choosing to donate their time and efforts (and in some cases money) to FRC. The fact that there are so many of these stories depicting negative volunteer experiences breaks my heart. I hope things change soon and/or they let the public know what we can do to help.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Are...are you guys serious?

Don and Alan, I respect you guys tremendously, but I fail to see how you don't think this document would leave a sour taste in the mouths of young mentors and COLLEGE GRADS.

This document explains so much about why mentors in MN are always telling me that the key issue in MN not going to districts is a lack of good volunteers. Even more experienced mentors have brought up this issue.

If you're going to call out someone because of their age, I can do the same thing and say that older mentors can't see as well, or maybe they can't hear as well. The age has nothing to do with the volunteer experience, but if we're going to use age, why not say ridiculous things?

It's like a 50 year old versus a 22 year old interviewing for the same job, neither of them have experience in it, but the 22 year old is told that they're just not going to be good at the job because of their age.

By the way - this is one of the few times I don't give a crap about a fake account. This document is real, that is literally all that matters. Stop giving the OP crap for not posting real names because clearly Minnesota is a little screwed up and they would probably be ripped apart within their community for raising this issue.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

There are lots of ways to help your area move to districts.

One of them isn't using a bogus CD account to create a passive aggressive thread that has a superficially laudable intention, but is actually used to winge about not getting to what you want to do, and to attempt to "turn someone in".

Sit down with whoever you need to meet with and talk.
- Ask them to write down any complaints they (or anyone else) have about you (use actual paper).
- You write down any complaints you have about them (and about anyone they represent).
- Bring those lists to your meeting.
- Do not show them to each other, but instead tear them up in front of each other and toss them into the trash.
- Get down to work.
- Start with small, short assignments.
- After establishing a good rapport with each other, after successfully completing (together) the several small assignments, and after becoming a team instead of adversaries; start working (together) on bigger, longer-term projects.

Nothing will get better so long as people are glaring at each other (or sniping at each other on CD) instead of talking to each other.

Along the way, younger folks (like college students) might be surprised to notice (when they participate in the nitty-gritty, stupifyingly boring, detailed planning necessary to prepare for and implement something like an FRC District) that the District implementation plans extend past their expected graduation dates.

If Minnesota college students today are like Kentucky college students were, they scatter to the four corners of the Earth after they graduate. That isn't something that can be ignored by anyone involved in putting a sustainable District organization in place.

Blake

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

This thread is asking how to help move an area to the district format.

The content of this thread is mostly hearsay and bickering regarding the wording of a letter. Very little productive dialogue has taken place.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

...Referring to a letter that was sent out isn't hearsay though...

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

The reason this thread was started was this account is claiming they can not have the proper key volunteers fill district roles in Minnesota because college students are not allowed to take these roles on. These students are the basis of many great district regions, like FiM, where most of their FTA's are college students, or like Canada, where a lot of refs are college aged, and all other district regions (NE, PNW, ect)

I think you should take a look at Rahul's post (Knufire) on this thread for a better understanding of the whole situation before claiming this thread is counterproductive.

This thread is literally pointing out a key problem into why a region can not change to districts.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

If anything i read about MN is true, I would also be using a fake account. Too much drama to associate myself with that could blow up in your face.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

As a college student volunteering in Minnesota I feel the need to post. I don't personally have an issue with the document that the OP has linked. It doesn't (and didn't when I initially read it) push me away from volunteering.

Volunteer Experience: I've been a Robot Inspector for 2 years and I've inspected at 3 official events, soon to be 4, and 2 off-season events. I've also coordinated 30+ college volunteers at the Duluth Regionals earlier this year, and will be doing the same at Minneapolis.

Speaking for all of my volunteers, I can say they had a very positive experience at the Duluth Regionals. The consensous that I get is that basically all of them will be returning next year.

As college volunteers we served in many different volunteer roles: 4 CSA's, 4-5 Robot Inspectors, 3 Referees, a bunch of queuers including a Lead Queuer, and also people working the safety glasses station. There are some who wish to try different volunteer roles next year, and there are some who want to "level up" and become a Key Volunteer in their respective volunteer role. We are comfortable with the knowledge that we can't start at the top.

As for districts, I'd love to see them happen. I've been fairly vocal about that on this site. I'd love to see it happen soon. I think the only way for that to happen is to increase the transparency of the decision making process at MN FIRST, so people know who is making decisions, why they are making them, and more importantly, so the people making decisions can get educated feedback from the people and teams they are serving. Right now, I'd be willing to bet that over half the people involved with FIRST in the state of Minnesota couldn't tell you what a district is, and what the pros and cons for districts are. The general FIRST participant in Minnesota is very uneducated on the topics that we argue regularly, and that is a large part of the problem.

If there is transparency in the process, things will operate better.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

this is just a placeholder for a lazy and pontificating post about the status quo being just fine and the current scenario being incapable of setting off any alarm bells in the heads of any properly enlightened person, please move along

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

How many of these volunteers were part of Bison Robotics (North Dakota State University) versus GOFIRST (University of Minnesota)?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Dude, your post was probably the least productive of them all.

The thread is discussing potential issues holding back MN FIRST from districts, exactly what the OP wanted. What else do you want to make this more productive?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

All of the volunteers that I coordinated were from Bison Robotics, as I am the Service Coordinator for Bison Robotics. There were also a couple of members of GOFIRST at the events, but I had nothing to do with that.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Discussion generally involves two sides. If there was an honest attempt an engaging the issues preventing Minnesota from transitioning, that would be one thing. Rather, this thread is largely piling on against an absent second party. There is little point in continuing to pour on hearsay and anonymous bashing until MN FIRST gives their side of the story.


More generally, while the OP linked a document specific to Minnesota, this thread is not simply about Minnesota. My post, quoted in the OP, is about districts in general. There is a potential use for this thread regarding what logistics are involved in the creation and administration of districts, and how concerned teams and individuals can assist in the transition from a regional system to a district system. That is the type of productive conversation that should be happening. Mud slinging is not productive.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

A couple more cents from me:

There is way too much fussing in this thread about what any one volunteer is/isn't happy to do in any one year, and not nearly enough discussion about both the (really large) number of important roles in a District, and how to consistently fill all of those important roles year after year, for the next decade and beyond.

Blake

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

The key to running any event is making sure you're not incredibly condescending to one of your largest sources of volunteers.
Key volunteers are not those that need to be in the positions for "decades." To have a sustainable program you need to constantly be training people and have them fill necessary positions. Districts are about sustainability, and with that you cannot rely on people who you expect to always be there, but have enough people trained in those roles that many people could fill in key roles. The biggest market for that is FIRST alumni.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I think I touched upon this earlier. One of the key things the document seems to be discouraging (in my PERSONAL opinion), is the active training of new people to fill roles, especially key roles. The document seems to state that if you want a key position, or one with responsibility, you have to wait your turn.

Maybe the following is more along the lines of what Sean is looking for in this thread.

As a participant in the districts system for my third year now, I have seen new key volunteers with every event I have gone too. This is what is key to the expansion into the District Model.

In New England, we grew from 5 Regionals to 10 Districts and a District Championship, more than doubling the events. This obviously requires more volunteers. The first year was rough on the volunteers, many people going weeks in a row in their positions because no one in their area/state else knew them. Now, I have seen new referees, FTAs, Head Referees, Inspectors, and Committee members. This new generation of volunteers is the future of the region, trained and mentored by the key volunteers before them. This is pleasing, especially since many of these new volunteers are friends and peers.

Back to what i find concerning.... The document linked provides a negative shadow over exactly what I have described as one of the main reasons I think New England Districts are beginning to operate so well; a new young generation of volunteers helping to run and sustain our region. If Minnesota can open its doors to something like this, I think the region will greatly benefit from it. If they begin training this new set of volunteers now in more positions, a District Model transition will go very smooth, with enough volunteers to help run the necessary events.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Over here in Michigan we currently have 5 college student FTAs, including a sophomore and a junior, both under 21. This year two college students were asked to be an EC (they declined on account of being busy college students). College students have been CSAs, I can think of at least one who's been a HR, MCs.. I think we're doing pretty okay. It's ridiculous to use age as a big negative factor in volunteers, especially when you complain at the same time of too few volunteers.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I understand all of that. It doesn't contradict what I wrote in either of my earlier posts.

Also, "how to consistently fill all of those important roles year after year, for the next decade and beyond." doesn't mean the same thing as having one person in any given role "for 'decades'".

My consistent point is, service *before* self.

Blake

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

MN should start by giving their volunteers the respect they deserve. Odds are that if you have a volunteer that is college aged, they themselves are FRC/FTC alumni. If they are coming back it means they love FIRST. Other regions and districts thrive from their alumni no reason MN can't.

When it comes to the argument that they will not have enough volunteers, I find that plain wrong. Granted I do not live in MN nor have ever been to the events, but from my experience, if you have the event, volunteera will come. Here in PNW I know that we have had students from teams competing at the event take volunteer positions such as field reset and robot queing. Local teams will help with setup and takedown.

Let the college age students handle key roles at district events. They are adults, MN should treat them like it. The only reason I can imagine that MN would not have enough volunteers for districta is because letters like this are driving them away.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I wrote that folks should be discussing how to consistently fill important roles, instead of talking about themselves.

I wrote that folks who feel they are in different camps need to flush the past, and start talking to each other (not sniping in forums).

Are you disagreeing with those two suggestions?

Blake

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Nope, just trying to steer away from hearsay and get to productive discussion on how to bring MN FIRST to the next level.

I believe you and I are in agreement that something has to be done in order to fill the requirement of more volunteer positions in a district model. I suggested trying out what my region has done, and others like FIM, which is training a new generation of volunteers.

This new generation is ready to go and even organized into their own organization at GO FIRST. There does, however, seem to be some concerning relationships between them and their region, as shown by the letter linked by the OP.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Recruiting Volunteers 101 - What Not To Do -

Include a section in your recruitment material called "So you screwed up..."

Who thought that was a good idea? :confused:

Also - Where else are people supposed to bring up issues they've encountered from their personal experiences in Minnesota when they don't feel they're being taken seriously? Some other public FIRST forum made for discussing these issues? (I'd love to see a post on r/FRC on this.) Nah let's just not talk about anything and keep everything as-is because that's how FIRST grows & improves right?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Who is this "MN" you speak of, if not a group of hard-working and dedicated, in-it-for-the-long-haul volunteers?

Was the "MN" in your post maybe the OP, and the other Minnesota folks who were annoyed by the roles they filled or didn't fill at events? Were they the group you called "MN"? Is that group failing to give other volunteers the respect those other volunteers deserve?

Bottom line: When you think about things from more than one viewpoint, sometimes you notice interesting stuff.

Blake

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Showing a tolerance for mistakes is something that you should do when trying to get people to participate in a role with responsibility.
Albeit the header was poorly phrased, that section could have just been titled "accidents" or something.
The idea was fine the execution of it was horrible.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

FTFY

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I totally agree that tolerance is absolutely necessary. I've managed our volunteers for the past 2 years at the FRC off-season event that I founded and always make it a point to thank them all for giving up their personal time to help make our event run smoothly. None of this is possible without volunteers and we all make mistakes from time to time. We're all just trying to do our best at something we care a lot about.

I've never had volunteers 'screw up' enough to mandate an entire paragraph on what to do in case they 'screwed up.' Did a bunch of Minnesota college aged volunteers burn down a building or something? Seriously though what happened? I would think if you had a few isolated incidents that you would handle them privately and move on... instead they addressed it vaguely in a document and made everyone wonder 'oh boy, wonder what happened?'

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I have gone from being on Teams, Mentoring, Judging, Coaching, and Running Tournaments now for JrFLL, FLL, FTC, and FRC.

I have been on both sides of the fence in this situation, so hopefully I can add something to this. While I don't know the whole background on what is happening in MN I know a bit of what has when on.

When I went to college I was then done mentoring and coaching some younger FLL teams. I was invited back as a volunteer for FLL events in our area. I was happy to help where ever I could. There was always roles I wanted, most of the time I was assigned something else. Looking back on it I was grateful, since I was able to work every volunteer spot before I took over as the FLL Tournament Director, which quickly expanding to several local school communities in the area. With this experience I feel I was better prepared to help serve the teams in my area.

I now know what I look for in my volunteers and what areas a person might best fit due to this experience. Looking at the "Do's and Don't" list they sent out, the info on there is valid, but at the same time I can see how some of the word selection comes across a bit brash and rough at times.

For me personally I love having college students help with any of my events. At the same time, for my Key Roles at any level of event I look for those with experience that I know of personally. As a tournament director if something goes wrong, even if someone else caused it, it comes back on you.
(Side Note: There is no such thing as a "perfect event", something will ALWAYS go wrong, it is how you handle that set back that makes your event good or not)
So when I look for those Key Role people I normal look for 21+ aged, with at least 2 years of experience, or know them from another event in which they did they same role, or if another Key Role person/Higher Ranking FIRST Person can back them up, I will feel comfortable giving them that position. When I have a someone that I do not feel is perfect for that Key Role position that they wanted, I will pair them up with that person that I know has experience. This way I can have some trained for the next event. (Those Key Volunteers wont be around forever you know!)


I know that my main background came from FLL and the JrFLL realm, since there was no FRC team at any of the local schools around me at the time, and FTC was not a thing yet.

I still got the chance to be tournament directors for both. And while I followed FRC since 2000 and FTC since it started I had not bee through any of the volunteering roles.

I will tell you, leading up to running a FRC and FTC tournament, I was at as many different tournaments I could get to, making connections, sitting in backrooms, talking to Judges, Volunteers, Key Roles, the Tournament Directors. And if that was not enough I was either emailing, calling, texting one of those people I had met at all of those event asking questions and getting answers and feedback. I went through every volunteer manual for FTC and FRC as well as all the online training that I could. I did not have the years to try out each of the roles at the event like I did for FLL/JrFLL. I learned as much as I could so I could run a successful event.

If I could go back and have time to work through all of the positions I certainly would have liked to do so, but running these events at all levels I can respect that each spot is very important to the tournament. (When you have people back out, or call off sick you realize how important those roles REALLY are)

I can say it is true that running a JrFLL, FLL, FTC, and FRC event is very different, each taking it's own set up and group of people to make it work. And each role is important at every event.


I guess my take away on this is, I am still not 30 and have experienced SO many more parts of FIRST Robotics than I ever would have thought. At the same time people that do not know me sometimes might look down on me due to my age, so I get the whole "Don't write me off, just because I am young!" thing. And on the other hand I see people within our generation wanting "Instant Gratification" to what they want. With both of these being said I know that neither is what we want to strive for within FIRST we have to keep in mind those Core Values they instill within us.

If you are able to get certain Key Roles at certain events, that is Awesome! Keep up the good work and keep helping out with those events! At the same time there will be events where you won't get the Role you want, be happy to help with anything. Like Carolyn said, those that come in early to help and stay late to pack up are some of the biggest help! I know if I need any last minute help my Key Volunteers are always the first to help, and those others that show they are there to help as well, even if they might not have a Key Role, I DO take note of that.

So keep volunteering, and know that every time you help is important, and I hope the discord within MN improves and Districts is possible for you in the near future. I know when IN switched last year to Districts it has set FRC in IN on a new path which has been a pretty great improvement. It was a great effort by IndianaFIRST to get everything in order to ensure it worked smoothly.


- Brian Boehler

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

At this late hour I must chime in - because I have dealt with most of the Minnesota contingent at one event or another. I do this as I have a 4 year old screaming next to me because she has an ear infection and the childrens tylenol has yet to kick in... life gets in the way.

What saddens me about all of this is that there are so many great people (that have the same intentions) being lambasted on this forum. I can say that because I have experience with putting my foot in my mouth from time to time on CD.

GoFIRST - a great group of energized college students that are willing to advance FIRST in Minnesota. What they do with SRS, SPLASH, and their other events furthers FIRST in Minnesota.

MN FIRST - a great group of people that have created an incredible organization where there once was none. These people put in time to hone the organization that most other states would be envious of.

Volunteers in Minnesota - no one can argue that any volunteer is worth their weight in gold. Thank God most volunteers do not frequent this site.

All of this boils down to two things:
1. The direction that Minnesota needs to go in the future
2. A document that was presented to college-aged people.

I cannot state when or how this document was presented or received - but knowing the two parties, I think that both read the document differently.

If you read it from the party sending it out, it reads as a "how to volunteer at a FRC event and what to expect"

If you read it from the receiving party it may read as "do it our way or else..."

Again, what I think that what is missing in the creation, transmission, and translation of the said document is that all parties need one another in order to further FIRST in Minnesota.

I pray that all of the discussion on this thread can lead to a better organization in Minnesota - because that is what I believe all parties are truly for in the long run.

What we don't need is conjecture and bias playing into all of this. Minnesota does have a tough road ahead as we transition into the future - whether that be regionals or districts. Yes, Minnesota has some of the greatest regionals in FIRST; and yes there are concerns with the future of Minnesota and what comes next.

What we do need is more constructive conversation from all parties with interest in making MN FIRST the best organization in FIRST - clearly this is not how this thread has progressed.

Again, I am loving that we have CD to air our differences - but please lets keep this from being a site where we flame ideas or people with good intentions.

/walks off soap box/

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I completely agree with this. Transparency would have prevented all of this.

As someone who is involved in MN FIRST and is aware of the districts debate, it saddens me how little information is made available, let alone even the acknowledgement of districts even being a remote possibility.

Something from being on several FIRST teams has taught me is that communication along side transparency is very effective in meeting a goal. And here, I believe we all have the same goal which is to do what is best for FIRST.

Unfortunately, here in Minnesota communication is deteriorating and this clear goal is being blurred. The ones suffering from this are the events that are now missing some incredibility dedicated alumni.

Transparency of all sides is the key.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Ok, that helps. It certainly seems as though there are potential volunteers who have had negative experiences. I took your original post as more a question about you specifically ("How do I train key volunteers?"), which is why I asked what volunteer experience you had. I apologize for misreading this.

Thinking on the letter, I can absolutely appreciate both sides' viewpoints. I do think it's a little troubling that so many people's response to "This document is a little offensive to me." is "No it isn't." instead of "That was not our intent at all. How do we fix it?"

It almost seems like it's gotten to the point of needing some type of mediation between the two groups (which I'm assuming are the GOFIRST students and the MN Regional Planning Committee). Certainly, you both share the same goal: To continue to grow access to FIRST programs throughout your state, so that every student has the opportunity to participate in this life-changing program. A neutral, independent mediator may be able to help both groups build on their own success and move forward. Honestly, I have friendships with people in both groups, former GOFIRST leaders and the RPC members in MN. They are all some of the best people in FIRST that I know. We even snagged one to lead us here in Indiana.

There are many, many things that precede an area. What could you start doing this year, right now, to help? My first idea would be to start more off-season events. The two years before we made the switch (2013 and 2014), we hosted 4 off-season events each summer in the state. That gave us 6 events a year for a state of around 50 teams. Two of these events were strategically placed in locations to determine feasibility as district host sites. The 2013 off-season state championship was at Perry Meridian HS, which is hosting a district event this year.

These off-seasons are a great opportunity to show that a location can provide a planning committee, fundraise to support an event, pull volunteers, and provide a location suitable. It also gives more people the opportunity to try different volunteer roles in a low-stress environment.

The most important thing, I think, is to come at this from a place of common ground. If you approach the situation negatively, I think you're more likely to get a negative reaction. If you approach it positively, I think you'll get a better response. Disagreement can be both healthy and productive, as long as it's done in a respectful, gracious, and professional manner.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

Thank you!

-Collin

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

OK,
Time for a little background to be added to this thread...
First, key volunteer roles require level headed, mature people with specific abilities and experience. Some of the wording in this document is directly lifted from my requirements for Lead robot Inspectors and for Inspectors. While Inspecting may look easy for the casual observer, it is not. We just make it look easy. The Inspection staff is tasked with insuring that robots are ready to take the field and compete. We regularly assist teams with robot and team issues and I depend on that staff at every event to be able to deliver bad news and get the team working towards a successful weekend. We train LRIs to recognize when a smile is turned into a frown and to correct it, immediately. In talking with other key volunteers, their desire and training are similar. My requirements for inspectors at a minimum is that they have actively worked on a team building a robot for at least two years. That means I want them to know how to read and interpret rules on the fly to assist teams. Inspectors must pass a test to be allowed to inspect. Even then, each inspector will be evaluated by the volunteer coordinator, the LRI and the regional committee for future volunteer assignment. In addition, any complaints lodged by teams will also be considered. In rare cases, a volunteer may not be the best fit for that role for a variety of reasons.
Any LRI is also expected to fulfill the role of Inspector for several years before being considered as an LRI candidate. During training, that individual will again be evaluated by the LRI and volunteer coordinator under which they train and shadow. It is only in this way can we insure that an event will be successful and the students each volunteer works with receive the highest possible experience.
As to maturity, that is also judged by how a volunteer presents themselves outside of FIRST events as well as when volunteering. While social media seems to be a benign entity, it is not and it is public. When a volunteer expecting a better role, complains in public, degrades staff or committee decisions and purports to know "the real reason" behind certain activities, that is never a secret. Volunteer coordinators need to know that they have the best person in each position because we are putting students at risk if we don't.
Some volunteer positions do not require the level of maturity or experience that other roles demand. We still need volunteers and I am sorry if you think you deserve a different role. My recommendation for everyone is to self evaluate their daily activities as a future employer. Would you hire someone who complains in social media (including CD) about their current employer, decisions made and activities for which they have no real knowledge? I would not.
While many posters, presenting themselves as knowledgeable students in Minnesota, are arguing that the Minnesota committee is preventing a move to districts, you are not in position to know what the committee is doing. You have no knowledge of what it takes to move to districts, the restrictions placed on the committee by FIRST, the state and local jurisdictions, the financial needs or the on the demands for volunteers, including local committees. If you think that the committee is doing a bad job, I would point to the explosive growth in Minnesota, now at 208 teams. I would point to four regional events serving well over 50 teams at each event. I would point to the high standards for volunteers, especially judging staff and inspections. I would point to the expectation that more events are needed and the work they are doing to assist Iowa and Wisconsin. I would point specifically to the great LRI and inspection staff I observe at MN events. I would point to the preparation of rookie teams that allow them to have a great first experience. I think that Minnesota is doing a spectacular job for FIRST and I hold them up as an example for others to emulate.
It is rare to find someone who is still in college or recently entering the workforce to be able to handle the stress and demands of any Key Volunteer position. It is actually hard to find that in someone who has been around for years.
Want a real test? How would you handle a team who shows up for your event at 142" frame perimeter, weighing 130 pounds, with no way to mount bumpers to the front of their robot and a pickup mechanism that extends outside of the frame by 2 feet? Think about how you would deliver the news, how to keep the team engaged, how to get the team working towards a compliant robot. How would you keep the smiles coming and allow the team to keep their pickup in a compliant fashion. That is what our LRIs and Inspectors are facing every week. Compared to Judges working with Chairman's teams or Engineering Inspiration or Rookie Allstar, our job is easy.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Frankly, I think some of the most short sighted and unprofessional posts on this topic both on CD and social media have not been from the MN alumni and their supporters, rather from the established adults chastising this group. Al's point about the perils of social media is absolutely appropriate, however this is something that everyone should be considering, not just the group of alumni who are regularly being called out.

This reminds me a lot of how millennials are regularly called out for simply being younger and having different perspectives. In the end it's the ones who are calling them out in unprofessional in ways that end up embarrassing themselves and looking uninformed.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

That last part is what is really bothering me right now. When older mentors who don't inherently have more experience due to age are talking down to college aged volunteers and implying they are inherently immature, I have very little sympathy for any region craving volunteer growth.

As a mentor, I try my hardest to never pull the age card on my kids. Having been through it as a student, I know that it can feel like one of the most condescending things to hear.

Last post for me in this thread, it is really not worth it. PM to comment on my posts.

.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I don't believe I'm one of those students who has said that the Minnesota Committee is preventing a move to districts. I know for sure that I'm not one of those students who believes the Minnesota Committee is doing a bad job, to the contrary, I believe they've done a great job as evidenced by some facts you reference.

I would, however, like to be in a position to know what the committee is doing. Their decisions affect my involvement with FIRST, and the involvement of everybody else in Minnesota.

You are mostly correct in stating that I have no knowledge "of what it takes to move to districts, the restrictions placed on the committee by FIRST, the state and local jurisdictions, the financial needs or the on the demands for volunteers, including local committees." I say mostly correct because I do have some knowledge, but not nearly enough. I think everyone in the state would benefit from having a broad knowledge of the situation that MN FIRST is dealing with. There is no reason, that I can see, that would make secrecy a requirement.

If the general population has a broad understanding of the situation, we will be more equipped to help. If we understand what is going wrong, we can become a part of the solutuon. If the general public understands the issues, we can provide accurate, and educated feedback with an understanding for how difficult some issues are.

The fact is, people don't understand how the transition to districts will work, nor the problems associated with such a transition. Once that problem is resolved, we can start making real change happen.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

As this thread approaches a point where it is best off locked up from the denizens of this corner of the internet, I just want to make sure that it's pretty clear it's now impossible to buy into the meme that Minnesota can't move to the district system because of a lack of a volunteer base.

Sure, my only experience with Minnesota comes from
a) flying up there to canoe one summer (it was great, thanks nature!)
b) the Saints beating the Vikings in the NFCCG (sorry Vikings fans)

but I live in a region that really seemed to hate the idea of moving to districts. Just couldn't seem to find x or y. New executive director for the state's 501c3 comes in and says "yo, we're doing this now" and people FREAK OUT. WE'RE NOT READY! HOW WILL THE EARTH CONTINUE TO SPIN WITHOUT HAVING A DEEP BENCH OF GAME ANNOUNCERS [or other KV position here]."

We're going into our last week of districts and hell yeah, there have been growing pains. We had to wait 3 hours to get inspected at our first event. But hey, my first thought was "wow, guess we need to get some of our to-be alums trained up to be RIs" not "wow, guess I need to tell the internet how much districts suck." We went to the first event to spectate and hoo boy, some stuff was rough. But hey, first district, a lot of KVs brand new to their positions, refereeing is hard this year and the barrel plugs on these radios are nightmare fuel. The only problem was the grotesque number of the infernal FRC parody videos everyone had to sit through.

The biggest victory of the district system? Coaches got an email a week before the district saying "hey, we NEED people for these positions." I ring up a couple alumni from the local college and they leap right into it. We had one alum get the opportunity to go from high school senior last season to Game Announcer this season. And he KILLED it. One of the clearest, most enthusiastic and confident GAs I have heard in a long time. Sure I'm biased because I know him, but also I know that he was very green but wanted to do the job well. He will be doing the job this weekend and I expect great things.

If he was a Golden Gopher instead of a Hokie, he would be told he wasn't even old enough to run FIELD RESET this year. How are you going to engage your alumni to further advance your program when you tell them to man safety glasses until someone almost quite literally dies? MN's RPC has triggered an aggressive expansion of teams but seems to balk at the idea of aggressively expanding their volunteer base. Why?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

It's quite amazing how far the document diverges from the one published by GuamFIRST. I compared the two documents so you can see for yourself-- it's almost eerie how the two letters have the same format but vastly different messages. Not half as destructive or offensive. Great job GuamFIRST!

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Nate,
I disagree, the messages are almost identical down to the actual wording.

Happily, when students graduate from teams and/or from college, they often want to give back to
the FRC program!
With the growth of FIRST Programs in Minnesota, many students are graduating from teams
and/or from college and wanting to give back to the FRC program.

GuamFIRST staffs our events with people who volunteer often and energetically.
DO volunteer often and energetically.

In your personal communications (including social media), maintain an awareness of how
your voice may be heard by your audience.
When not at an event, be aware that everything you do reflects
on FIRST. This is especially true with social media – Tweets, posts, or blogs can easily cause
issues for volunteers. Stay positive, think about how your post will be perceived,

It is just written in different style because it was written by a different person. It is the same message.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

3Spooky5Me!

So now that this thread has brought to light the falseness of Minnesota's "lack of volunteers" problem, are there any actual problems preventing Minnesota from transitioning to districts??? The last two threads I read about MN and Districts, this was unequivocally the primary/only problem cited by many individuals. Argument doesn't look so strong now.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I respectfully disagree. Only one of those documents makes me want to volunteer.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Yes, they are different styles. One of which is vaguely insulting. The other is more encouraging.

More bees with honey than vinegar.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

From an outsider's perspective: One problem I think MN has is that the entire state is run by one RPC. Most other districts took several RPCs, and combined them, allowing for a wealth of expertise. Unless MN starts to divy up the load on to more planning committees before the switch, the transition in that regard could be rough.

Getting the volunteer base is a struggle every district goes through, but having to grow planning committees by 10 in the first year isn't.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

The message may be the same, but the presentations are completely different; night and day. Two salesmen can present the same pitch for the same exact product and get drastically different results.

GuamFIRST: Tells me waht they look for and how they staff their events. Insiteful!
Minnesota: Tells me how I should volunteer. You don't know my journey, Minnesota.

GuamFIRST: Reminds me that as a volunteer, a represent the community, and people will look up to me.
Minnesota: Scares the $#!& out of me by guilt-tripping me into not making a social blunder, because "they're always watching!!!".

HUGE tone differences.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I'm obviously not picking up on what people are seeing as "destructive or offensive" about the document supposedly* published by MN FIRST. The two letters look to me like they have exactly the same message. The only substantial difference in style I see is that one is written in an active and instructional form, while the other is more passive and conversational. If I were just starting out as a possible volunteer, I know I would appreciate the specific guidance of the first one more.



* It was presented here as second-hand information, and I don't see a reference to it on the mnfirst web site.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Considering the letter discussion has continued to dominate this thread (to my dismay), I do have a question. How was the letter published/distributed? Was it posted on a MN FIRST website for prospective volunteers? Was it e-mailed to all volunteers on the VC's list? Was it emailed to a specific group of volunteers? Was it released for public consumption at all?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Was distributed at a presentation by a guest speaker of sorts.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

If you have not done so, please read my previous post #75.

I think the biggest tone difference between the two that particularly strikes a negative cord with the college aged audience is in the following passage:

GuamFIRST: We will help you get to where you want to be.
Minnesota: You're not mature enough yet, but if you work toward it, maybe you might be some day.
College kids LOVE to hear that one!

You have to be blind as a bat to miss this one.

Sometimes districts are annoying. It's one more step to get to St. Louis

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

ok

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I don't think this post positively contributes to the discussion in this thread.

Please try and bee a bit more productive next time!

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

sorry man this thread just isn't what i want it to bee about

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

That's kind of an immature way to think about it.

What is it exactly that you want this thread to be about?

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

This is a real concern for some teams. In the regional system, you can qualify for the World Championship after 1 event. With districts, it takes 3. This is a turn off for some mentors.

We try to balance that by having some events on Saturday-Sunday, helping limit the time off from work required by mentors.

It's a balance. There are positives and negatives to districts. I think that the positives greatly outweigh the negatives. I don't think that means that those negatives should be ignored.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Decided to pop in and see what the buzz was all about.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

why im right and everyone else is wrong, obviously...

that is why we have the internet right? to tell people they are wrong and we are right

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Ryan explained the context in full here. Although I know GOFIRST members and participated in GOFIRST's Ri3d, this thread was my first time seeing the letter.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.That one was a good one. I almost thought you were being serious for a moment.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I think the difference is goals that teams and organizations have. Generally, a team's prerogative is to compete and qualify for the FIRST World Championships (Admittedly, who doesn't want to qualify for that?), whereas the RPCs want to maximize the amount of matches and experience overall for teams. The disconnect, it seems, is the work it takes to be successful in a District model. (Things like time, necessary steps to qualify for Worlds, etc.)

Regionals seem better for teams because it looks "easier" to qualify for the World Championships.
Districts are better from an "experience" standpoint because it gets teams the nearly double the amount of matches (or triple if you qualify for District Championships followed by World Championships).

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Solomon,
I am trying to understand your viewpoint. Can you explain the difference you see in the two messages addressing volunteers...
GuamFIRST staffs our events with people who volunteer often and energetically.
DO volunteer often and energetically.

or


In your personal communications (including social media), maintain an awareness of how
your voice may be heard by your audience.
When not at an event, be aware that everything you do reflects
on FIRST. This is especially true with social media – Tweets, posts, or blogs can easily cause
issues for volunteers. Stay positive, think about how your post will be perceived,

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I'll just post Sean's followup for him: What about this presentation indicated this was a MN FIRST document? Was the presenter a representative of MN FIRST? The document itself is seems entirely generic outside of the introductory paragraph.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I can tell you that districts have made it easier for my team to qualify for the World Championship(s). Where before we had to win an event to qualify, now we just have to rely on good performance to qualify.

This "it adds one more level to be able to qualify" comes from people that don't understand how districts work.

To answer the original question about how you can help. One of the original goals of the Rumble in the Roads offseason event was to prove to VA FIRST that our area could support district events. We wanted to use our offseason event to grow our local volunteer base and show that an even that size could be hosted in the area.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

No way man, I'm just here to make troll posts that drive people away from CD, and keep certain parties out of relevant discussions. I have never provided anything of value like the fine upstanding people in this thread and FIRST abroad that also just happen to have more experience in FIRST and the industry™. The team I coach for is invalid because it is run partially by some snot-nosed 21 year old brat that won't shut up and let the olde--smarter people talk. Sorry, everyone.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

With a select few exceptions, it does add an additional level to be able to qualify. Very few teams are able to gather enough points in their first two events to not need additional points at their DCMP to reach CMP. For budget conscious teams, there is a significant additional cost associated with having to compete three times prior to CMP rather than just once.

I don't think that concern outweighs the benefit of districts in most regions, but it is a legitimate concern.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

Oh, I completely agree that Districts are the way to go. Districts, in the best way that I've heard them described "promote consistency over moments of brilliance." At the very least, you aren't paying some $600 a match.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

My point was supposed to be that it is not inherently harder to qualify in the district model than in the regional model.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I invite any members of GOFIRST who were actually attending the presentation this was distributed at to give a first hand account of what happened. I've seen a few of these members describing what happened on other social media platforms but seem to be afraid of posing here lest they be crucified, which is exactly the problem at hand.

The issue isn't specifically volunteering. These kids just want to get involved and have their voice heard on the directon Minnesota is going. Volunteering is simply the avenue they have of being involved. This document, along with the general culture, has implied to them that if they voice views that don't agree with the leadership, their only method of getting involved (volunteering) will be relegated to more menial roles.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

The speaker is a long-time member of the MN RPC and an MN KV who was invited to speak about his engineering experience at the tech company he works for. GOFIRST has meetings for this purpose on a biweekly basis to provide networking opportunities to any student at UMN (so these meetings are attended by FIRST alumni at the U and students who have no idea what FIRST is other than that 2 regionals and an off-season state championship for FIRST are held on campus yearly).

I know a couple members of Bison Robotics also received a copy of the document, but I'm not sure if it was presented to them at a general meeting meant to introduce students to a specific company or if it was emailed to them for review/some other reason.

With regards to Knufire's comment, I'll just say that I had been considering making a CD account for a couple weeks now (starting from the 8 plays thread) and held off because I'm worried that voicing my PERSONAL opinions here will cause me to no longer be allowed to volunteer in MN though I have volunteered as a ref for the past 3 years (1 year in MN & at Champs, 1 year in MN & CO, and this year (for now) in MN). Additionally, all of my comments are my own PERSONAL opinion and do not reflect the opinions of any of the organiziations I am involved with now or have been involved with in the past.

Re: How do I help my area move to districts?
 

I can't blame them after reading this thread. If I were them (a college alum eager to volunteer... wait a minute) I wouldn't want to get lampooned by some of the people in this thread either.