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Are Fans Pneumatic Devices?
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Let's Discuss! Is 4060's Hook Deployment Mechanism Illegal? Please try to present opinions with rules from the 2016 FRC Game Manual (Preferably in American English?) |
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No.
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I'm all for it I don't see anything at all in the rules that would hint at it being illegal in anyway, and on top of it passed inspection once and will most likely pass inspection again if it goes to another event. A+ for the creativity aspect to it
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I wonder if our prototype mechanism for opening the sally port would have been considered a pneumatic device?
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Their fans move air! |
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Using some of the definitions in the other thread, every robot on the field uses a pneumatic device to get around: the drive train (hereafter known as "device"). It sounds crazy, but hear me out!
Motors propel the device in such a way to create a high-pressure side and a low pressure side, wherein air on the high pressure side imparts a non-trivial force onto the robot and the surrounding objects. Conversely, high-speed robots can use this device to intentionally create a higher-than-normal pressure situation on the leading edge of the device, which could then be used as an interference mechanism for any lightweight objects nearby - objects comprising of but not limited to:
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Is this a pneumatic device?
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As I recall, if your pneumatic systems remain under a certain pressure you don't need any lisence or regulation for safety (for things like baloons or other similar low pressure things, I forget the specific threshold and may be wrong). These baloons are therefore legal as they meet all relevant safety standards. Using fans might not be so legal because it can surely pump more than 1.10CFM and would therefore be an illegal compressor.
This is also the first year pneumatic tires have been "legal" without the rest of the pneumatic control system, as there is now a specific exemption. No one cared in previous years despite being illegal by the rigid, literal interpretation of the rules. W tread Versawheels are illegal per R6 but noone will call that either. There are likely other ways to interpret the rules that will shift "legality" one way or the other. Regardless, I can't imagine an inspector calling any team out on this particular system. |
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![]() We can make the Hover Van. ![]() |
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Then we would add a shell in the shape of a van to the top of the device. And yes, you would get your hovervan, paint job and all :D |
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If a team is really really bad does that make them a pneumatic device because they suck?
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Serious question....
The fan is not a pneumatic device but the tube being filled with air is right? |
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Source: we suck so much were not even making elims this weekend :( |
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You think that would fit in the prematch screen?
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This thread blows...
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Obviously fans are pneumatic devices. The definition of pneumatic is of or relating to air, gases, or wind.
The definition of fans is any device for producing a current of air by the movement of a broad surface or a number of such surfaces. I see a relation. /sarcasm |
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This thread reminds me of our defensive fan development for 2013...
I am still not doing a very good job.... https://youtu.be/9lj7asPtflY |
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Traction devices must not have surface features such as ... hard plastic studs, cleats... W tread versawheels are hard plastic, and have what could be described as studs and/or cleats. This was tangential to my point. It was an example of "illegal but not going to be called". |
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I am thinking it must be a slow day in Chief Delphi land.
Fans were used in Lunacy to help push robots around. |
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[1] Sox fans are obnoxious enough without a win. |
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I think the attempted "discussion" was more about whether it is worth $188 or more to measure the air inside the tube in order to determine if the smidgen of increase in pressure due to the fan even registers on the tool (which has a margin of error of a lot) that may then be used to say that this particular device generates more compressed air (that is accurately measurable) than any of its other "devices" through normal play. It's pedantic and demeaning to the team which took the idea from concept through to to a working point-scoring mechanism. |
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The thread created because another thread was derailed has been derailed. Or should I say de-air-ailed?
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I completely didn't mean to do that... |
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Bailey, I love you, why would you start this...
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Welp, we finally reached that point of the season. Everyone has gone mad.
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This topic is blown all out of proportion.
It seems you are all at the point of over pressure. So you just need some release or valve to dump that pressure. I will reserve any further comment and hope the topic tanks. :p Sanity is overrated: open your mind to the possibilities. |
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Are all the airheads in California pneumatic devices?
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Cheesy Poofs illegal? |
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Novelty Sumo Suits on Einstein at dawn Saturday of CMP? Wait, crap those are pneumatic devices... nvm. |
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Moment of silence for the first time I've been taken seriously on this board in years. |
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Based on, again, prior logic, does not any object that moves on this earth become a compressor? Think about it - those objects, when moving, can move painfully small amounts of air, an action that could be misinterpreted as compressing air. Everybody, next year's game will only be software - no moving parts.
#programmersonly /unreasonability |
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In other news, to get with the tone of this thread: ![]() |
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Is that fan a pneumatic device? |
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Don't worry Sean, you're here just in time.
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Is mayonnaise a pneumatic device?
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/thread
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Re: Are Fans Pneumatic Devices?
There are such things as pneumatic fans.
I am not kidding. They are explosion proof. Google not for the animated GIF but for knowledge of how not to go boom in a room of combustible vapor. |
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How much air does a bench grinder move?
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So one could convert those linear cylinder movements to rotary movement. Anyone see a rule to prohibit converting linear cylinder movement to rotary? ![]() |
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Here's my loco motive. At 125MPH now we need a FIRST sized pnuematic version :D |
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Pneumatic (leaving out descriptions of people) generally means "containing or working by compressed air". The game manual expressly excludes (via R77L) pneumatic tires (which usually do not do work beyond acting as springs), vacuum-producing devices (which can be argued as non-pneumatic according to the general definition as they work on the difference between ambient and rarefied air), and closed-loop shocks (which act as springs) as pneumatic devices. It does not expressly exclude fans, radial flow pumps, axial flow pumps, gravity pumps, or impedance pumps. If any of these devices create compressed air that does work (and there is no minimum PSI limit defined by the GDC for compressed air), then by the normal definition of pneumatic in the English language, I consider them to be pneumatic devices -- until and unless the GDC rules otherwise. For the record - I am not trying to tear down any team that is using fans as pneumatic devices, just giving a warning that until/unless you get a solid ruling from the GDC that what you are doing is somehow an exception to the pneumatics rules, you may find your creative solution shut down at your next event. |
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However in this case more than one inspector including the LRI at the Auburn event took a look at their wind sock and we all agreed that it was legal and it certainly would have passed had they moved on to DCMP. |
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So is the whole robot a pneumatic device? |
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*Trigger warning, may include some satire/sarcasm
I don't really see any issue with the fan. Now the wind bag (what I like to call the device catching said air) may be a different story. Can someone ask the GDC if Wind Bags are legal? I don't have direct access via Q&A. Here is some sample wording: On CD, I came across a lot of posts about Fans and Wind Bags. While fans seem perfectly legal, wouldn't the Wind Bags referenced on CD be illegal? With all the attention they are getting, I am afraid that those that follow CD might cause the Wind Bags to multiply. It could get bad enough that most teams at the championship might have a Wind Bag. If wind Bags are legal, then carry on...** *Just so anyone that is not a regular know this is mostly sarcastic **Added so that anyone reading this post realizes that this post is mostly satire. |
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As a windbag myself, I resemble that remark. |
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Who needs a bag of winds? Just use David Hasselhoff as your human player.
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