So is he saying he doesn't want to live in the US anymore? Since he's SO ashamed of it an all.

I'm not putting words in other peoples mouths, in fact I am summarizing what was said of Fox News a from a former weapons inspector.

As for growing up, I may only be 17, but at least I don't have to resort to personal assault to get my point across in a debate.:rolleyes:

For whoever asked for the proof of Saddam paying his people for being suicide bombers, I'm sorry, I was wrong, he is paying Palistinians to blow themselves up. Follow the link below.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48822,00.html

PS: I'm done with this, not because of the arguing and debating, but because of the persoal attacks that some members are making on those with differing opinions. And, all of you who are against this, when there is a dirty bomb sitting in the middle of times square, then say we shouln't have at least made a forceful effort to stop this. And for all of you who hate Bush that bad, your free to leave. I'm sure you have a great life waiting for you in Canada or Mexico.

And once again GO BUSH!!!!

i did not say this. i will not put words in jim's mouth (unlike bill :p). i'm just pointing out that everyone is saying America gives us all these freedoms, but according to Locke, whose philosophies make up a majority of the constitution, we already have these freedoms. the government just takes away some rights, like the right to avenge, and protects you in return. so instead of an angry neighbor killing you for borrowing a lawn mower, the police come after you. if the government stayed the way it was back when it was created, it would be much better, but it has evolved to represent the wealthy more than the majority.

I bash the vices of my country, the shortsightedness/ignorance of its leaders. The principles of the system are great. If those principles could be upheld properly (though this would only be my opinion, I'm sure not everyone would agree with my definition of "proper"), I'd have nothing to bash, as you put it.

As for what I am ashamed of, the main reason that I feel shame for being an American is the fact that it seems that a huge proportion of the population of the United States of America is ignorant of current events and problems. I am ashamed to be associated with the ignorant and the racist. I am an American, and I value the opinion of the world. If they think we're a domineering force which seeks to oppress foreign nations for our own economic benefit, then it makes me sad to be an American, for those are not my feelings, and they are not indicative of my way of thought. I don't particularly appreciate being prejudged.

The world does not know me as a person, but they know that I am an American, and that alone seems enough for resentment, on at least some of their parts.

Just for the record, I still love freedom.

I think you overestimate the power of our Air Force. Unless, I'm mistaken they still do not possess a bomb capable of knocking on a door and checking whether or not there are armed Iraqi army soldiers in a building. Sure we could level the building, but what would happen to the other people inside who are their because the other guys holding a gun to their head. And the difference between the Northern Alliance and the Iraqi's rebellion is their not as well armed and they do not have territory that was under their control at the outset like the Northern Alliance had.

As to the energy thing if you read
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/cti127.htm
http://www.energy.ca.gov/releases/20...standards.html
(towards the end in both)
you will see that California is building nine power plants with 13 more in the works. A company can't raise the prices artificially unless the demand is so high that you need to buy from them. The lack of powerplants in California caused the problems that allowed Enron to take advantage of ithe Californian.

Oh! Oh! I want some action....

The former weapons inspector said that through the almighty news portal of Fox News? IT MUST BE TRUE! Give me a break, Bill had every right to say what he said to you. Do you believe everything people say? That's just that one guys opinion. I seriously doubt he 'craves' weapons like drugs. Sure Iraq may have a large arsenal, but so does the US, and so does every other powerful country in the world. The weapons are what give power, even if they're not used. Don't even talk about his big ego, take a look at your ego, you... you... AMERICAN! Don't be mean to Saddam, he didn't hurt you. You don't attack everyone who doesn't like you and could possibly hurt you. Lot's of people don't like the US, do we murder them all? You know why they don't like us? The US in general has the Biggest. Ego. EVER. We don't own the world. Grow up. Not in age, in intelligence. Most people in the US feel the same way you do, so don't feel too bad.

Since when do spokespeople get all the credit?

And whats this you say about "One day that ego is going to get so big, we will use this arsenal." we? WE??!? I see how it is now. You're on their side aren't you?

P.S. - RAAAARRRRRR!!!!!!!!

There was a day when nations had a sort of code of conduct. A set of mostly unwritten rules they lived by. Sometimes they even formalized them in treaties. Under that code a deliberate attack on any country's military installations or warships was considered an "act of war".

There was no need to declare a war, as of the moment the attack began, a state of war already existed. The only question was whether or not the attacked country had the means and the will to pursue the matter.

I submit that deliberately crashing an airliner into a country's military headquarters is an "act of war" under the above definition. The ethical question is not whether or not we should go to war. We ARE at war, the questions are who are we at war with? and how far are we willing to pursue the attacker?. We are at war with whoever planned, executed and FUNDED the attack on the Pentagon until such time as another arraingement is made, ie some sort of formal peace treaty or other settlement.

IF (and I admit I haven't seen any conclusive evidence but then I'm not likely to either) there is sufficient evidence to tie Saddam and Ben Laden together, then it is the Presidents responsibility to hold them accountable by whatever means necessary. That's what he is there for, what his position's basic responsibility is: to hold wrongdoers accountable. It does not matter whether they are internal or external to the country. That's why he is Commander In Chief, so he has the authority to respond to criminal behavior by nations as well as individuals.

I am thankful that Mr Bush seems to be taking the time to be sure he's attacking the right enemy and that when he does the blow will land swiftly and surely. If he is not right, if Ben Laden acted on his own, or if he unnecessarily hurts the wrong people, then I hope that the voters of this country will hold Mr Bush accountable for his actions.

But let's not forget the basic truth that as a nation we are already at war, and we have been since at least Sept 11, 2001, if not the attack on the Cole or the barracks in Saudi Arabia, and we will be until the enemy is identified and neutralized, one way or another. We didn't start it, but we'd darn well better finish it, and convincingly, so we don't have to go through this again for a long time.

BTW I don't think wholesale bombing is the answer either. Too many ordinary people who had no say in anything get in the way, but I wouldn't mind sending Saddam a couple of 500lb presents down his chimney, that is if he's the guy we're looking for.

Most of what I had to say about my stance about this issue or rebutting some people's opinions has already been addressed some lengthy but poignant responses already.

What has been bothering me is how people who are supposidly "bashing" America are basically branded as traitors or unpatriotic people who are unappreciative of the great American system government. I'm sorry, but the sedition acts that banned saying anything inflammatory against the government were thrown out a long time ago. Part of what makes our government so progressive and great (well at least in my opinion) is the fact that people are allowed to question what the country is doing and protest to their politicians when they think they see wrongdoing.

Its unfortunate that most of the American society are simply passive about what's going on around them. In our country we actually have the chance to speak out against what we don't like, unlike many of the dictatorships or undemocratic societies around the world. Yet instead, many Americans just absorb what they hear in the news [many of which are biased...like the very conservatively biased fox news] or from their parents, etc. Given, there may be some citizens who are extremists and take out their issues with the country through violent actions but simply speaking against the President or popular view in an educated manner should deem a person an active participant of politics, not evil.

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!! :eek:
I ment to say "he would use this arsenal", "he", not "we", that little typo made changed the meaning of that whole statement. I didn't see it until you pointed it out, sorry.


BTW I am sick of people make the US to be the bad guys in this situation, and Saddam the viticitm. Tell me again, who gasses their own people? And what's with bashing the US all of a sudden, don't you like the way you live? Have somemore respect for the country in which you live, and the freedoms you enjoy.

I'm not trying to convince you that Saddam Hussein is a great person, much less a respectable one. He's not either.

Speaking of gassing their own people...

http://www.infoukes.com/history/famine/index.html
Interesting, eh? Slightly parallel, perhaps? Slobadon Melosevic was already mentioned... Megalomaniacal leaders aren't very alien to the use of force to quash rebellious factions... And I do not condone it.

Hrm... as for your comment about "bashing the US," take few minutes out of your life and read Doanie8's post. Until you do that, and exhibit some understanding, I will not consider you worthy of any more direct replies...

When George H. W. Bush was in office he had 3 big blunders:

1. Not taking Saddam out of power completely (The army did an excellent job of neutralizing the Iraqi's)

2. The Economy

3. Dan Quaile as his VP :p


W.'s Big Blunder so far

1. The Economy

but on the other hand he is trying to get Saddam out of power...and he kept this country together after the incidents of 9/11/01...

G.W. is doing a pretty darn good job..the economy can be fixed...lives cant.

How would you feel if New York, Chicago, DC or LA were attacked with Chemical Weapons beause nothing was done???

Also, if Saddam calls the shots he can easily hide weapons....we have to be forceful, but not too forceful that the Inspectors get tossed out for good and war is all we have left.

Face it everyone, he [Saddam] needs to be stopped now before something else bad happens.

Bah Im not racist. I really didn't mean that what I meant was that you can't start making up stuff just to make a point. I really should try and make a point while I am half awake then I'd be ok. Im sorry:(Sigh. Yet you prejudge other people.

ARGH...yeah...do what Jim said and please just read my post that is directly above yours. I explained what was "with bashing the US all of a sudden." This is exactly the kind of post that I was responding to...it would be nice to know that the people I am addressing actually read what I wrote.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! D.J.

And FotoPlasma, yes Stalin was probably the most evil man to ever walk the Earth, worse than Hitler and Saddam put together in my opinion. But I don't understand, are you comparing the US or Iraq to Stalin, or both. I could see the parallels either way, but US stopping Iraq, to Stalin stopping oppositition? Isn't that streching it a bit?

Also, I read the post and agree with it 100%, but what makes you think I am "worthy" of a reply? Is this a prize or something?:rolleyes: