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Mr V 14-04-2016 16:52

Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
With all of the discussion about areas moving to districts I thought it would be a good idea to start a poll and thread for those who have just made the transition to post their satisfaction with the switch and relate their experiences. For the best info it would be helpful to know a little background on the person responding. So I believe it would be helpful to include that, so if possible please include the following.

# events per year your team attended in the Regional system.

Time to drive to the Regional(s) you had attended and if your team had to arrange for lodging because of the drive.

Time to drive to both of your District events and if that included lodging for one or both of those events.

Did your team qualify for the DCMP. If they did, the travel time and if lodging was needed.

Finally please tell us the specific things that you like or dislike about the District or Regional system.

KMeyers 14-04-2016 17:17

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
We attended 2 regionals last year- one was an hour away(no lodging), and the other was 3 hours away(required lodging).

This year, we attended 2 district events and one regional. Our first district was one hour away and our second district was 3 hours away, so with the exception of the regional we didn't experience any change in driving/lodging.

We did not qualify for DCMP, but if we had it would have been about a 1.5 hour drive, and lodging would have been preferable but not required.

Overall, I was fairly pleased with the district system. The 6 hours out of bag time instead of a practice day allowed us to make more efficient use of the time and iterate on our design. The additional matches(our robot played about 40 this year) definitely took a toll on the robot; major breakages during matches were a large part of the reason we didn't qualify for DCMP. I think this season was a learning experience for our team- we will definitely build a more robust robot next year.

Collin Stiers 14-04-2016 17:25

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
We attended 2 events each year under the regional system, with the district model we attended 3

Regional drive times: 3hrs, 1 hr, we arranged lodging for one event

District drive times 2 hrs, 45 min, 1 hr(district champs) We arranged lodging for one event

we did qualify for the district champs, it was a 1 hr drive, we did not arrange lodging

I enjoyed the district system more than the regional system. The increased play time, and decreased cost are clear benefits. There are also some more subtle ones, the judging seemed more in depth, we received multiple visits from different judging teams, each one wanting to talk about different aspects of our team for different awards. I also think that a huge benefit of the district system is rewarding mid level teams. My team has often been in the middle of the pack at regionals, just missing out on eliminations, and there was no reward for us. At a regional event, if you don't win, you loose, there is no reward for second place. However at the district system, strong and consistent performers are rewarded by qualifying for district champs. District champs provides a great opportunity for mid level teams to get to experience a higher level of competition, and it provides an intermediate step between the local level and the world championships.

Dezion 14-04-2016 18:59

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
In 2014 and in 2015 we attended two regionals each year, all of which required lodging.

In 2016, we attended all four of the NC District events and the NC DCMP. The four district events ranged from 2-3 and a half hours and lodging was required.

The DCMP was in Charlotte, was about 30 mins away, and required no lodging.


When reading everything below, keep in mind I have never attended a Regional event.

In the district model, we played a total of 80 matches. I believe that's more than 2014 and 2015 combined. Playing 80 matches is rough on our robot, but we managed to keep it together. We suffered three issues on our robot, one of which was resolved before our first event. The second issue was our arm, which allows us to do the Cheval and Portcullis. With very limited time to do repairs on it, we unfortunately had to play about one match each event without it (except at Campbell, where larger issues caused us to not play with it in Eliminations at all). Some of these matches we won, some we lost. You don't have a lot of time to fix anything, but it never developed into too large of an issue for us. The third issue was our rhino track coming off, which only occurred once throughout the season... in our 80th match. But, playing all of these matches was very fun.

The first two NC events, Guilford and Wake County, were held at high schools. The field was set in a gym, which was packed with teams. This made these two events very loud, especially Wake County. In my opinion, that only contributes to the experience though. The pits were still located close, and the events functioned well. The second two NC events, Asheville and Campbell, and DCMP, UNC Charlotte, were held at Universities. These events featured larger arenas, but the pits were still located close to the field. All five district events were either ahead or on-time for the majority of the event.

Since districts are smaller, you tend to know teams better (especially if you attend every competition). It's really great to see teams improve throughout the season (5854 and 900 being great examples). Teams you align with in eliminations at one event you may be playing against them in the next event (3336 and 5160 for us). It seems the personal relationships between teams is very high at district events.

District points provide a way to reward consistent medium to high strength teams. You don't have to win anything to move on, but doing so rewards you in district points. Teams that were consistent in their first two events, but not too strong at States, still moved on (2655 and 2642). And earning a lot of district points at states, but not winning can still push you to St.Louis (5518 and 4561) With 4935, we performed well at our first four events (our lowest seed was 11th, and we were an alliance captain or first pick at every event), but because of our somewhat-lacking performance at States, we did not qualify based on district points. Earning District points at States is critical.

tl;dr Districts provide a unique, personal experience with other teams and allows consistent teams to move on to St.Louis.

Matthew Levis 14-04-2016 20:15

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Though it was a bit tricky dealing with repairs with the quick turn around time, partially a problem simply due to the aggressive nature of stronghold, i really liked the district system. More matches, closer events, and a higher level event to compete at was great. And though there was less teams that we interacted with, i found myself actually getting to know a lot more teams a lot better. Though in the end 1719 was fairly bad at chmps due to voltage issues, it was so much fun. cant wait till the district events next year, possibly on another team that hasn't been competing in a while...

indieFan 14-04-2016 20:22

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
1 Attachment(s)
I spent 12 years in the Los Angeles area doing Regionals at Silicon Valley, Sacramento, San Diego, Arizona, and Los Angeles. Some of these were smaller regionals in the beginning, such as Sacramento, but most were larger numbers of teams.

I spent this year in the WA state area doing Districts where my team, but not the robot, advanced to the District Championships as a Rookie All-Star winner at a District event.

I personally am torn between the two, so I made a Pros/Cons list, as I see things.

ehochstein 14-04-2016 20:34

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by indieFan (Post 1573279)
I personally am torn between the two, so I made a Pros/Cons list, as I see things.


Thanks for putting together a list! I have a similar list in a spreadsheet on my Google Drive and this made me think of a few items I missed.

One thing I would like to note - there is no price difference between two district events and a regional. They will either cost you $6000 for rookie teams or $5000 for veteran teams, this is why your registration fee was more expensive this year! http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...ng-and-payment

*Edit: rtfgnow corrected me below

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1573281)
PNW does costs a bit differently. PNW website about it is here. The FIRST website touches on it on this page.

Quote:

Teams in the PNW District will be presented with an invoice for $10,652 for the 2016 season participation fees (Don’t panic! Read on). Teams in the PNW District will be presented with a list of offsetting grants from Washington FIRST Robotics and Oregon FIRST Robotics to lower this cost to between $5,000 and $6,800. All FIRST payments will be made to Washington FIRST Robotics for the 2016 season. The participation fee includes all registration fees up to and INCLUDING the District Championship registration fee. Washington FIRST Robotics and Oregon FIRST Robotics will be actively working to help decrease the costs to teams. If we do well, we will be able to lower your net costs to below $5,000. All payments for FRC will be directed to Washington FIRST Robotics.
So whatever the total cost for FRC teams in PNW was, included everything for the year (KoP, 2 district events and DCMP, provided they qualified).

ATannahill 14-04-2016 20:37

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochstein (Post 1573280)
Thanks for putting together a list! I have a similar list in a spreadsheet on my Google Drive and this made me think of a few items I missed.

One thing I would like to note - there is no price difference between two district events and a regional. They will either cost you $6000 for rookie teams or $5000 for veteran teams, this is why your registration fee was more expensive this year! http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...ng-and-payment

PNW does costs a bit differently. PNW website talks about it here. The FIRST website touches on it on this page.

I thought the practice fields were the same. The practice fields at the AZ Regionals looked to be about 1/4 field with a wooden tower, a wooden hanging bar and a single defense platform with ramps and the third set of defenses. I haven't been to a district this year, but can someone provide some information.

KMeyers 14-04-2016 20:50

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1573281)
I thought the practice fields were the same. The practice fields at the AZ Regionals looked to be about 1/4 field with a wooden tower, a wooden hanging bar and a single defense platform with ramps and the third set of defenses. I haven't been to a district this year, but can someone provide some information.

Our first district had no practice field. I know our second district had at least the tower and scaling bar; I'm not sure if they had the defenses as we never made it to the practice field.

indieFan 14-04-2016 20:57

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1573281)
I thought the practice fields were the same. The practice fields at the AZ Regionals looked to be about 1/4 field with a wooden tower, a wooden hanging bar and a single defense platform with ramps and the third set of defenses. I haven't been to a district this year, but can someone provide some information.

I was going off of previous years at Regionals since I didn't attend them this year. Thank you for the correction.

MikLast 14-04-2016 21:14

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1573281)
PNW does costs a bit differently. PNW website talks about it here. The FIRST website touches on it on this page.

I thought the practice fields were the same. The practice fields at the AZ Regionals looked to be about 1/4 field with a wooden tower, a wooden hanging bar and a single defense platform with ramps and the third set of defenses. I haven't been to a district this year, but can someone provide some information.

Both district events had some team made towers and defenses, but the DCMP had an actual field with FMS and everything (check out the photo that Darren posted here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochstein (Post 1573280)
So whatever the total cost for FRC teams in PNW was, included everything for the year (KoP, 2 district events and DCMP, provided they qualified).

A little over $6000. I can confirm many smaller teams (especially in Eastern WA) did not like this at all. Im not expecting this to stay honestly. (In case you are wondering, though we didnt qualify we still liked it.)

Mr V 14-04-2016 21:24

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by indieFan (Post 1573288)
I was going off of previous years at Regionals since I didn't attend them this year. Thank you for the correction.

Thanks for the great list with your perspective.


Your team did a great job this season and showed some excellent improvement for your second event.

Which brings up the point that under the Regional system very few rookie teams are able to come up with the additional $4000 for a second event. In this case the next nearest event would have been either 2+ hrs and over the pass to Ellensburg or 3 1/2 hrs to Portland.

wilsonmw04 14-04-2016 21:25

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
I would love an option of, "The jury is still out on Districts."

So far so good. I'm concerned about volunteer burnout. The extra layer of competitions to get to World's, more directly the added cost, is annoying as all get out.

Mr V 14-04-2016 21:30

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikLast (Post 1573294)
Both district events had some team made towers and defenses, but the DCMP had an actual field with FMS and everything (check out the photo that Darren (the best MC) posted here)

Actually the person who posted about the second full field is a different Darren, he is the Lead Mentor Bear Metal 2046. The Darrin that is the MC with the most energy and style in the PNW is with Hi Tekkers #3574.

I wasn't sure about taking the complete second field, I'm glad that it was done and I hope that we can do it again next year.

Mr V 14-04-2016 21:39

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04 (Post 1573301)
I would love an option of, "The jury is still out on Districts."

So far so good. I'm concerned about volunteer burnout. The extra layer of competitions to get to World's, more directly the added cost, is annoying as all get out.

Sorry I didn't think about that particular option.

PayneTrain 14-04-2016 22:41

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
We attended 2 regionals in the traditional system. We walked (yes) to one of them every year. We traveled anywhere between 2 hours by car to 5 hours by plane to go to our second regional. The travel event always featured lodging. The travel event had a wide range of costs from under $100 per student including meals and lodging in DC to "I'm way too embarrassed to release that number, holy hell, we paid that much for a regional and no one fired me?" for Alamo. The BBQ was pretty great though.

We attended 3 district events. Week 2 and Week 3 were travel events while Week 4 was a local event. Both events cost a little over $100 per student. Week 2 was within our system and a 3 hour drive and the Week 3 was outside of our system and carried with it a 6 hour drive. Also I stopped for Fuddruckers, so it was closer to 7. Apparently I was not supposed to stop at Fuddruckers but I was very hungry. Our Week 4 event required a 1 hour drive so we didn't do lodging. I don't know if it stopped smelling like horse manure on the second day or if I just got used to it.

Our DCMP was about 2.5ish hours away without traffic, through the bustling construction project known as the DC Beltway. We stayed at a hotel there, obviously. I think the cost there was around $175 because of geography and extra nights we stayed there compared to other events.

According to The Blue Alliance, 422 competed in 93 matches and walked home with 5 trophies in my time as a student (2009-2012). In the 2016 season, 422 has played in 70 matches --so far-- and has walked away with... 5 trophies.

"Bbut Wil, it's not about the trophies or the matches!"

It's a measuring stick I can use that is indicative of multiple things.

We put in a rookie driver and human player this year with ZERO offseason experience. For a variety of reasons, I would have found pushing bamboo into my nailbeds to be a better use of time and energy than competing in an offseason in the 2015 season. We decided to flip our offseason budget into and OOD event pretty easily and boy did it pay off. The kids loved that event more than Championships! We were able to develop our drive team over the entire season.

That leads into the two big things for me. The ability to actually have a comprehensive season helps me as a coach both chart the development of our program and use milestones that parallel that of traditional sports to leverage additional support of my program. The district system format also axes the dreadful "win or die" mentality that comes with the traditional regional format. We would have NEVER had an opportunity to have the students who grinded out that robot design win an Industrial Design Award at a regional. The talent pool is too thick at the top for technical awards. In the regional system, we would be staying at home after finishing as semifinalists at 2 events and finalists at the other 2; instead we finished 5th in our district system and are advancing to championships.

The coverage and support from the school has started to blossom again for the first time in years, and I have the pleasure of watching the kids come back and retool the team after every event to help get the results they want.

I really do worry about how the extended cost and support requirements are going to affect teams and volunteers long term. Stan and the VirginiaFIRST team are turning into fundraising machines and I hope that means that FIRST Chesapeake will use that to transfer the region into the PNW model. I know we can afford the fees but we know that is both a rare position to be in and a difficult one to stay in. Volunteering long term presents both threats and opportunities. I saw a lot of the same faces at events and those same faces tended to look a tad more beaten as the season progressed. VirginiaFIRST has an opportunity to engage with the larger teams near the district sites to identify and train up volunteers of all ages, talents, skills, and importance if the lines are open so the same people aren't stuck doing events 12 weeks a year until they are ready to turn to dust.

Michael Kaurich 14-04-2016 22:43

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04 (Post 1573301)
So far so good. I'm concerned about volunteer burnout. The extra layer of competitions to get to World's, more directly the added cost, is annoying as all get out.

You are not the only one that is worried about the volunteer burnout. The events did an alright job of bringing some new people in but for long term sustainability is is on the community to help out with the key/technical roles. I am really looking forward to having some one shadow me next season for all of the extra equipment needed to set up an event.

As far as the costs are concerned, I am hoping the PNW's model is successful and becomes a model for things to come. If the districts can fundraise enough to drop costs for teams down to 5k for the district events and district championship (at least on the registration side) that is a huge win. Also, as more folks see what we are looking for on an event side hopefully it means closer events for a majority of teams.

Maldridge422 14-04-2016 22:53

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
In its final two years, the Virginia regional was the only event Team 619 attended. We would drive an hour down I-64, stick around for 8-9 matches, then go home until next season. As a low resource team, we really couldn't build a high performing robot in six weeks.

The district system (along with some AMAZING students, parents, and mentors) just gave us the best season in the history of our team. The district system gave us TWENTY-FOUR qualification matches, which is three times more than we played in 2015.

We purposefully spread out our competitions this year, attending a week 1 and a week 4 event. Using this spacing and the unbag time before the events gave our team the opportunity to do something we hadn't been able to do in the regional system: iterate. Through iteration we bulletproofed our drive train, locked in our vision tracking and high goal shooting, reinvented our defense manipulation, and prototyped several climbers.

Through this iteration, and the smaller tournament sizes, we created a robot that competed in more elimination matches than every other 619 robot combined.

Do I miss competing alongside 60+ other FRC teams in an impressive arena in the coolest city on earth? Absolutely--but my students are much more inspired by a system that gives us more competition and more design time.

PayneTrain 14-04-2016 22:56

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maldridge422 (Post 1573333)
In its final two years, the Virginia regional was the only event Team 619 attended. We would drive an hour down I-64, stick around for 8-9 matches, then go home until next season. As a low resource team, we really couldn't build a high performing robot in six weeks.

The district system (along with some AMAZING students, parents, and mentors) just gave us the best season in the history of our team. The district system gave us TWENTY-FOUR qualification matches, which is three times more than we played in 2015.

We purposefully spread out our competitions this year, attending a week 1 and a week 4 event. Using this spacing and the unbag time before the events gave our team the opportunity to do something we hadn't been able to do in the regional system: iterate. Through iteration we bulletproofed our drive train, locked in our vision tracking and high goal shooting, reinvented our defense manipulation, and prototyped several climbers.

Through this iteration, and the smaller tournament sizes, we created a robot that competed in more elimination matches than every other 619 robot combined.

Do I miss competing alongside 60+ other FRC teams in an impressive arena in the coolest city on earth? Absolutely--but my students are much more inspired by a system that gives us more competition and more design time.

matt if you wanted to compete with 60+ other FRC teams in an impressive arena you could have just beaten us in quarters <3

Maldridge422 14-04-2016 23:03

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1573334)
matt if you wanted to compete with 60+ other FRC teams in an impressive arena you could have just beaten us in quarters <3


Mr V 14-04-2016 23:18

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Kaurich (Post 1573331)
You are not the only one that is worried about the volunteer burnout. The events did an alright job of bringing some new people in but for long term sustainability is is on the community to help out with the key/technical roles. I am really looking forward to having some one shadow me next season for all of the extra equipment needed to set up an event.

As far as the costs are concerned, I am hoping the PNW's model is successful and becomes a model for things to come. If the districts can fundraise enough to drop costs for teams down to 5k for the district events and district championship (at least on the registration side) that is a huge win. Also, as more folks see what we are looking for on an event side hopefully it means closer events for a majority of teams.

The First year was tough for the PNW district core volunteer base for certain. We gained a few for the second season and few more this year and we have another group that has inquired about stepping up next year. So at least in our case it has got better every year. I hope it does for you as well.

MikLast 14-04-2016 23:39

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V (Post 1573307)
Actually the person who posted about the second full field is a different Darren, he is the Lead Mentor Bear Metal 2046. The Darrin that is the MC with the most energy and style in the PNW is with Hi Tekkers #3574.

I wasn't sure about taking the complete second field, I'm glad that it was done and I hope that we can do it again next year.

Thanks for the correction. Good to know, i was not totally sure myself.

Peyton Yeung 14-04-2016 23:50

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
While I'm not from the CHS, NC, not PCH districts I can tell you about the IN district.

# events per year your team attended in the Regional system.

2 regionals (2 in state while a college mentor)

Time to drive to the Regional(s) you had attended and if your team had to arrange for lodging because of the drive.

5 mins and 2 hours. Hotels for the out of town events event

Time to drive to both of your District events and if that included lodging for one or both of those events.

15 mins for event 1 and 1 hour for event 2. Slept at home for event 1 and had a hotel for event 2.

Did your team qualify for the DCMP. If they did, the travel time and if lodging was needed.

Qualified for DCMP and it was an hour drive. We're staying overnight.

Finally please tell us the specific things that you like or dislike about the District or Regional system.

Likes: lots of matches, short drive to events, more likely to advance to worlds

Dislikes: Playing the same teams every event (we're playing against the no 1 ranked team in Indiana this weekend 3x and last year we played against the no 1 seed 3 times at the same event as well), having to win major awards 2x to qualify for worlds, small/cramped events with limited air conditioning

Anupam Goli 15-04-2016 01:28

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Take a look at my custom user title.

The only thing I disliked was having very little pit time at DCMP before matches started. we had a very rough first day and a half and we're still trying to get all of our robot functional again.

Michael Kaurich 15-04-2016 07:40

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V (Post 1573340)
The First year was tough for the PNW district core volunteer base for certain. We gained a few for the second season and few more this year and we have another group that has inquired about stepping up next year. So at least in our case it has got better every year. I hope it does for you as well.

There are also a lot of changes that happen with some of the roles. IE, Robot Inspection. It is crucial to have more inspectors on hand for Day 0 at the earlier week events. There isn't nearly as much time as there is at a regional to get teams through an inspection process. This role can be filled by mentors who are at the competition with their team and then shift to being with their team full time the rest of the event.

We are hoping some mentors will be willing to be trained as Inspectors on their own robot before the season starts so they know what the LRI is training inspectors to be on the look out for and how to teach their students how to build a better robot. Hopefully this is successful and is a win/win for both our teams and the events.

notmattlythgoe 15-04-2016 08:13

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
# events per year your team attended in the Regional system.
2

Time to drive to the Regional(s) you had attended and if your team had to arrange for lodging because of the drive.
1.5 hours and 3-7 hours depending on the second event. WE arranged for lodging at both events.

Time to drive to both of your District events and if that included lodging for one or both of those events.
30 mins and 3 hours. We arranged for lodging for one event.

Did your team qualify for the DCMP. If they did, the travel time and if lodging was needed.
Yes, 3 hours, and lodging was arranged.

Finally please tell us the specific things that you like or dislike about the District or Regional system.
I have been a supporter of VA switching to districts for many many years. There is nothing worse than a team spending $5k to attend an event after spending 6 weeks building a robot to play 8 times and then go home just to repeat the next year. Even if a team elects to only sign up for a single district event they are getting a 50% play increase for the same cost.

The system allows for several stages of iteration on the robot. We went into our season planning on having a low goal breaching robot that can climb for week 1. We succeeded with the low goal breaching bot but the climber did not work as well as we would have liked. For week 3 we got the climber tweaked and working. Then for the DCMP we added a high goal shooter at the event. This system is only going to grow teams and make the areas more competitive.

The system will also open communication lines between teams as you see the other teams more and more. By opening communication resources and lessons learned can be shared.

The downsides are more time and more money. But as I said, this can be alleviated by only signing up for a single event (however I really hope this is not the route people choose). The volunteer base will grow, this is a growing pain that every single area will go through with the switch and will get better as the years go on.

But if you can't tell by my post, I LOVE DISTRICTS. This is what this sport should be. High school sports are not played in convention centers and college arenas, they are played in high school gymnasiums. This gives more exposure to the community and will help grow and support the teams. I am very happy to see that the overwhelming majority of teams are voting for districts over regionals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyton Yeung (Post 1573347)
Dislikes: Playing the same teams every event (we're playing against the no 1 ranked team in Indiana this weekend 3x and last year we played against the no 1 seed 3 times at the same event as well), having to win major awards 2x to qualify for worlds, small/cramped events with limited air conditioning[/b]

I have emailed Frank and asked about official inter-district play being opened between the districts. With MAR, CHS, and NC all right next to each other this seems like the prime location to pilot this. Teams could compete at any district events they want but earn points towards their own DCMP. This would help alleviate seeing the same teams over and over again. It would also allow teams on the edges of their districts(like 1629) to travel to events that are in other districts but may be closer than any of their own districts events.

Franks response said that this has been brought up to the district leaders and was voted down. If this is something that you may be interested in doing please talk to your own districts and try to convince them that this is something the teams in your district could benefit from. I will be talking to Stan about it in detail. Frank said the topic would be brought up again to be discussed.

notmattlythgoe 15-04-2016 08:16

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Kaurich (Post 1573403)
There are also a lot of changes that happen with some of the roles. IE, Robot Inspection. It is crucial to have more inspectors on hand for Day 0 at the earlier week events. There isn't nearly as much time as there is at a regional to get teams through an inspection process. This role can be filled by mentors who are at the competition with their team and then shift to being with their team full time the rest of the event.

We are hoping some mentors will be willing to be trained as Inspectors on their own robot before the season starts so they know what the LRI is training inspectors to be on the look out for and how to teach their students how to build a better robot. Hopefully this is successful and is a win/win for both our teams and the events.

This is something that I brought up to some people on the CHS planning committee. They know it is a problem and they will be attempting to fix it. I suggested maybe training some mentors of the teams at the events to be inspectors on Day 0 of the events. This is something I would be willing to do.

Michael Kaurich 15-04-2016 08:26

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1573411)
This is something that I brought up to some people on the CHS planning committee. They know it is a problem and they will be attempting to fix it. I suggested maybe training some mentors of the teams at the events to be inspectors on Day 0 of the events. This is something I would be willing to do.

I am hoping a lot of mentors in Maryland/DC have a similar feeling. Wanted to give Rick Smith some time off before starting planning for next season as he was an amazing volunteer this year as the Senior LRI for CHS. I believe he worked every event for at least a day. Maybe we can get a training at a location in Maryland and Virginia before the season starts to expedite the process.

JamesBrown 15-04-2016 08:35

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
I was 100% against districts coming into it. I started competing in New England, and loved the regionals there. The production value was incredible, and Dean, Woodie and company were always around. I knew there was no way you could recreate that in a High School Gym, and I thought that would hurt the experience.

That being said, I loved the CHS district model this year. For the record, we are a small (10 Students), low budget (approximately $10k raised through the district events.) Who qualified for both District Championships, and Worlds. We had to scramble twice for money (for District Champs and now for worls) but we have been successful in adding sponsors and nearly tripling our budget for the year.

The atmosphere is different, but I like it better. Regionals were all or nothing. You could have the best robot in the world, but if your partner broke in the finals, you may find yourself missing out on a trip to championships. Now, two solid performances earn you a trip to DCMP, and a third puts you in the mix for St. Louis. This takes some sting out of tough losses. In Blacksburg we lost an encoder in the Quarter Finals (the first thing to go wrong for us all weekend) that cost us some points in the Semis and ended our chances of winning the competition. In Doswell everything came together for us, but 401, our opponent in the finals lost a tread, in a regional this would have been devastating to them, likely costing them a trip to St. Louis. However with Districts, they already had accumulated enough points to move on, and we knew we would see them again in College Park (where 401 and 122 got their revenge on us and 1086).

We have a good robot this year, and a good drive team, we would have been competitive at a regional if we were still in that system, however winning a regional is a combination of having a good or great bot and a little bit of luck.

If we had competed in a regional instead we would have played 10-15 matches, and had maybe a 1 in 5 shot of making it to St. Louis. In the district system, we have played 50 matches (35 for the same cost as that regional would have been) and we punched our ticket to St Louis for the first time in this teams history.

Dmentor 15-04-2016 11:25

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Here is the requested information for the teams I work with:

1895:
2014 – 1 regional, 11 matches, travel (1:45)
2015 – 2 regionals, 24 matches, travel (1:45), local (0:30)
2016 – 2 district events + DCMP, 45 matches, local (0:25), travel (2:30), local (1:20)

2068:
2014 – 2 regionals, 29 matches, travel (1:45), local (0:30)
2015 – 1 regional, 11 matches, local (0:30)
2016 – 2 district events + DCMP, 44 matches, local (0:25), travel (2:30), travel (1:20)

4472:
2014 – 1 regional, 9 matches, travel (1:45)
2015 – 1 regional, 11 matches, local (0:30)
2016 – 2 district events, 27 matches, local (0:25), travel (2:30)

All teams are generally fans of the district model. We liked all the normally touted benefits of districts… more matches, more iteration, less time off work/school, competitive DCMP, more local teams rewarded and lots of interaction with teams we love playing with. Costs were approximately the same as prior years but we were able to attend more events. DCMP at UMD was excellent (VCU would have been as well). On the down side, seating/sight lines weren’t always the best at the smaller events and we missed seeing/playing with some of the out of area teams that would frequent the regionals.

adciv 15-04-2016 11:31

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04 (Post 1573301)
So far so good. I'm concerned about volunteer burnout. The extra layer of competitions to get to World's, more directly the added cost, is annoying as all get out.

Burnout is my concern (as someone who has spent more time since the season started working on robots than at work). OCD? Nah....:p That said, the 2 day competitions are easier to handle than the regionals due to the reduced time off from work. Also, it tends to be cheaper for us since we only put the team in hotels for one night per qualifier. We also love the extra matches we get to play.

Side note, the extra matches at the regionals are really hard on our robot and we are iterating designs for durability (and reparability). 56 matches and counting at three events...

PayneTrain 15-04-2016 12:01

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1573411)
This is something that I brought up to some people on the CHS planning committee. They know it is a problem and they will be attempting to fix it. I suggested maybe training some mentors of the teams at the events to be inspectors on Day 0 of the events. This is something I would be willing to do.

Yeah, if we all (all parties) connected the dots, it would have been pretty easy to get alumni to just come wear a yellow hat on Friday at Blacksburg (home of VT) and help pull some teams through inspection really quick. We have a couple to-be and current alumni going to VT that will very likely be able and willing to take this route if the message can be communicated to them in a timely manner. We can't exactly train a B-team of FTAs overnight but we can get some inspectors, judges, and referee people trained up and ready to go if someone can point them.

Mr V 15-04-2016 12:09

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Kaurich (Post 1573403)
There are also a lot of changes that happen with some of the roles. IE, Robot Inspection. It is crucial to have more inspectors on hand for Day 0 at the earlier week events. There isn't nearly as much time as there is at a regional to get teams through an inspection process. This role can be filled by mentors who are at the competition with their team and then shift to being with their team full time the rest of the event.

We are hoping some mentors will be willing to be trained as Inspectors on their own robot before the season starts so they know what the LRI is training inspectors to be on the look out for and how to teach their students how to build a better robot. Hopefully this is successful and is a win/win for both our teams and the events.

Yes my suggestion for RIs is to have one for aprox every 3 teams for day 0. Usually that does end up as a bit of overkill with an inspector or two that may only fully inspect one robot. It also means that they have time to keep checking in with and helping their own team if necessary. Many of the inspectors are then done on day 0. Some do move on to other roles, I've got a few that will inspect day 0 and then move on to another role for day 1 and 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1573410)
[b]

I have emailed Frank and asked about official inter-district play being opened between the districts. With MAR, CHS, and NC all right next to each other this seems like the prime location to pilot this. Teams could compete at any district events they want but earn points towards their own DCMP. This would help alleviate seeing the same teams over and over again. It would also allow teams on the edges of their districts(like 1629) to travel to events that are in other districts but may be closer than any of their own districts events.

Franks response said that this has been brought up to the district leaders and was voted down. If this is something that you may be interested in doing please talk to your own districts and try to convince them that this is something the teams in your district could benefit from. I will be talking to Stan about it in detail. Frank said the topic would be brought up again to be discussed.

I asked Frank when/if it would happen as well when I talked with him at the PNW DCMP. The Unified District Points system was created in part to allow that points portability. Personally I'm for it though being in the PNW I don't think we would see a lot of teams doing that. However for those on the east coast where there are now several districts so close together I do see this as a way to make it easier on teams that are near the boarders and encourage a little more inter-district play.


I can also see why it could cause some logistical issues and why Districts may be hesitant to allow the points portability. The question becomes exactly how you do the registration. The District's top priority should be to ensure that teams within their boarder are able to play at an event in their boarder. The number of spaces/events they plan for are based on the number of teams in their area. So do you make teams that want to travel wait until 3rd event registration? Now it seems that they will still want to register for 2 events in their home district and then hope they find a spot later. Do some of those teams then drop one of their home events because they only wanted to play two? Is one district overwhelmed by teams that want to visit while another has trouble filling an event because the teams they expected to want to attend an event go outside the district?

Points portability does eliminate the possibility of teams getting a practice event before or between their events that count. Currently teams can buy a practice event at an early event in another district. I feel that is counter to the spirit of the District system which I believe is partially intended to level the playing field between the well funded teams and those that are not well funded. However it is still better than the Regional system where the teams that can afford another $4000 entry fee and potentially travel costs get to buy a second chance at qualifying for CMP.

So like anything there are pros and cons to either choice. I was an early supporter of points portability, but I do think there may need to be a little more discussion on exactly how it should work to ensure that it doesn't cause a lot of headaches for the district organizers. I also don't want to see a team pushed out of an event in their own District to accommodate a team from another District. So I'm still a supporter of points portability with the reservation that it needs to be carefully thought out to avoid the potential problems.

346CADmen 15-04-2016 12:47

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04 (Post 1573301)
I would love an option of, "The jury is still out on Districts."

So far so good. I'm concerned about volunteer burnout. The extra layer of competitions to get to World's, more directly the added cost, is annoying as all get out.

So far would say I like it. Team used to do two regional events , one travel 6 hrs and hotel, the other 20 min. travel no hotel. Districts, one 4 hrs.+hotel, one 1 hr. no hotel, district champ. +3 hrs. + hotel. Increased costs will be an issue.

Another I see, kids missing more school (6 days in April). CHS should have more Sat. Sun. events. Agree with volunteer burnout, maybe not this year but when?

notmattlythgoe 15-04-2016 12:53

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V (Post 1573491)
So like anything there are pros and cons to either choice. I was an early supporter of points portability, but I do think there may need to be a little more discussion on exactly how it should work to ensure that it doesn't cause a lot of headaches for the district organizers. I also don't want to see a team pushed out of an event in their own District to accommodate a team from another District. So I'm still a supporter of points portability with the reservation that it needs to be carefully thought out to avoid the potential problems.

I completely agree. A well thought out system would definitely need to be put in place to make sure it does not cause problems for teams inside of their own district. Since several spots are reserved at registration just like they are at regionals I think that would alleviate many of the issues already. I think the key now is getting the district heads to be open to the idea so those discussions can happen.

notmattlythgoe 15-04-2016 12:59

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 346CADmen (Post 1573500)
So far would say I like it. Team used to do two regional events , one travel 6 hrs and hotel, the other 20 min. travel no hotel. Districts, one 4 hrs.+hotel, one 1 hr. no hotel, district champ. +3 hrs. + hotel. Increased costs will be an issue.

Another I see, kids missing more school (6 days in April). CHS should have more Sat. Sun. events. Agree with volunteer burnout, maybe not this year but when?

Weren't all but two of the CHS events Sat-Sun? So far total our kids have missed a total of 2.5 days of school. At this point in the season previously they would have missed 5.

EricLeifermann 15-04-2016 13:03

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1573509)
Weren't all but two of the CHS events Sat-Sun? So far total our kids have missed a total of 2.5 days of school. At this point in the season previously they would have missed 5.

And thats just the kids, now look at the mentors who didn't have to take 5 days of vacation.....That's huge, my wife might actually talk to me(joking) during build if i didn't have to use all my vacation going to comps.

Michael Kaurich 15-04-2016 13:05

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1573509)
Weren't all but two of the CHS events Sat-Sun?

Yes. The only events that were not Sat/Sun occurred over a school break for most school systems. A lot of this is due to when CHS can get into the venue. High Schools tend to like the Sat/Sun arrangement.

wilsonmw04 15-04-2016 13:06

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1573511)
And thats just the kids, now look at the mentors who didn't have to take 5 days of vacation.....That's huge, my wife might actually talk to me(joking) during build if i didn't have to use all my vacation going to comps.

or those teachers who are taking 5 days out of class to do this. Not counting the 3 for Worlds!

346CADmen 15-04-2016 13:31

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1573509)
Weren't all but two of the CHS events Sat-Sun? So far total our kids have missed a total of 2.5 days of school. At this point in the season previously they would have missed 5.

Sorry, counting the load in day(s) and worlds. to reach that #.
Also kids are at the Engineering & Science expo in DC this week. While I suggested the trip after a visit 2 years ago, it falls during a tough time robotics wise.

Mr V 15-04-2016 13:35

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Kaurich (Post 1573512)
Yes. The only events that were not Sat/Sun occurred over a school break for most school systems. A lot of this is due to when CHS can get into the venue. High Schools tend to like the Sat/Sun arrangement.

It is interesting to note that for the first season in the PNW all of our events were Fri-Sat and that was at the request of the school/team. We gave the venue the choice. This season we had a mix of Fri-Sat and Sat-Sun events, again because that is what the venue wanted.

OccamzRazor 15-04-2016 14:04

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
I would vote district again and again. The level of competitive robots in NC has skyrocketed as a result of the change. It used to be that most teams in NC would register for the regional, play their 8 games, and then that was it if they did poorly plus they had very little time to learn and adjust. With a significant number of newer teams in the state, the regional model was difficult at best at producing competitive teams year after year. Not only that, teams from outside the state were coming in and getting a lot of the awards in the regional model because they had far more experience and resources than the majority of the teams in NC.

It took 2 years for a single NC team to win the NC Regional and that was 3506 during our rookie year as a last pick and we were aligned with two out of state teams....it was not by our own doing at all. That goes to say that it is now less competitive in the NC district model yet it is helping NC to be more competitive and I am curious to see what happens in years to come when this model produces some powerhouse teams and we flip the idea on its back that NC is not competitive.

With more plays, these teams get some time in between events to soak in information, make adjustments that they never had the chance to do, and it put them on the same level as the teams who could afford multiple plays in other regionals previously. I saw teams turn bricks into winning robots and I could feel the change, the energy, and the results were clear in that these teams were collectively better than they ever were before in the regional model.

We went to the NC&GA regionals last year and NC&OH regionals the year before that. 6 hour and 8 hour drives respectively outside of the NC state regional.

In districts both of our first qualifying events were 1.5 hours away and our third competition that did not count for district points was 3 hours away. State Championships was in our home town. This was absurdly cheaper and easier for us and we got more than twice as many matches out of it than our 4 previous regionals and Championship plays combined.

I think the change is immensely helpful and it will give NC an Einstein winning robot that it has not had since 2004.

Mr V 15-04-2016 14:29

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
I would love to hear from some of the people who voted I prefer the Regional System, and who have actually participated in the District system, why they prefer the Regional System or what they do not like about the District system.

That was my intention with the thread and poll, to create an open discussion for students and mentors to relate their experiences, give their preferences and reasons, whether it is Pro District or Pro Regional.

indieFan 15-04-2016 14:49

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
I have updated my attachment in post #6. I will continue to update as things come to me as a pro or con for Districts or Regionals.

PayneTrain 15-04-2016 15:16

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04 (Post 1573513)
or those teachers who are taking 5 days out of class to do this. Not counting the 3 for Worlds!

...or the college students with spooky attendance policies.

Inter-District play is quite the can of worms. You have to answer a lot of tough questions and depending on the responses, you have to execute annoying solutions. "How much does equity matter in swapping for OOD spots? Should we re-evaluate how we award the CCAs at district events?"

I think the model would benefit from requiring that you a) play at least one event in your home system and b) any 2 events in your home system will be your points earning events, regardless of your OOD event.

Teams should be able to indicate interest in playing outside of your district system upon registration. Teams should then rank whichever events (or maybe just systems) in a preference order. Then the district systems can come out and say something like "CHS will be swapping 5 spots with NC and MAR, 2 with NE, and 2 with IN" based on the MUTUAL interest of inter-district play or something like that.

For CCAs, maybe consider awarding up to 2 EI and up to X DCAs per event, or whatever the district system allows for its final allocation?

I don't know what to do. I don't feel like it should be as simple as tearing down the walls and having an open season because it might cause some weird things to happen in the points. For instance, I'm pretty sure 238 would have qualified for NC states with their sole event in Asheville...

Mr V 15-04-2016 15:48

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1573565)
I think the model would benefit from requiring that you a) play at least one event in your home system and b) any 2 events in your home system will be your points earning events, regardless of your OOD event.

I don't know what to do. I don't feel like it should be as simple as tearing down the walls and having an open season because it might cause some weird things to happen in the points. For instance, I'm pretty sure 238 would have qualified for NC states with their sole event in Asheville...

Currently the two events in your home district are your points earning events regardless of their chronological order. I do agree that inter-district play with points portability should require the team to play at least one event in the home district and that if they get enough points to attend that district's DCMP then they must attend that event.

The way it is now we already have some teams that pick their events based on the fact that they think a particular event will be easier and allowing inter-district play with points portability could only make that worse.

The way it worked out this and previous seasons, in the PNW a team can earn enough points at one District event to qualify for DCMP. This year the cutoff was 58 pts with the declines and a #1 seed that goes all the way earned 68 pts w/o winning any awards. I do understand that in a larger District like FiM a single win may not earn enough points to move on. You do have to keep in mind that since the points are cumulative a team that earns enough at their first event will still want to attend their second event to better their chances at a CMP spot.

DubstepLion1 16-04-2016 19:04

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Since last year was our rookie year, we could only really attend one regional. Luckily though, it took us only 10-15 minutes to get to the competitions since we were based in Raleigh, too.

This year, we attended two district events: Wake County and Campbell University/Johnston Community College. The first event only took us 20-25 minutes to drive to. However for the second event, some members of our team required lodging because it took them 1.5-2 hrs. to drive since they lived up far north in Wake County. As for me and others who lived near our workspace in Southern Wake County, we opted for the 45 min. daily commute.

Our team, too, qualified for DCMP in Charlotte, NC. This was around 2.5 to 3 hours to get to and our entire team required lodging.

Compared to last year, I would say I prefer the District system much better even though I only fully understood it after qualifying for DCMP. Our team was exposed to much more opportunities to fine tune our robot and get to know how to work with other teams. Cheering and lodging together additionally furthered our team's unity especially with 20+ new members this year. We lost in the semifinals at Wake Country and we won at Campbell most only because of the great generosity of Triple Strange (#1533) and The Flying Platypi (#2655) :) . Our robots for the 2015 & 2016 season performed pretty decently with all-around focus on the gameplay, but our team were very successful on our strategy for getting us through. However, we were all extremely surprised for qualifying World Championships in St. Louis. Like Dezion from T-Rex (#4935) mentioned earlier, we had accumulated enough ranking points especially from DCMP.

I believe the District system is a great way to level out the playing field for all teams; more teams have an opportunity to qualify which greatly increases the competition even for teams that perform well from season to season. This system offers a dynamic experience and I think teams will benefit globally especially considering the current rate of new teams joining FIRST. We hope to have a great time at St. Louis and we appreciate all of the hard work and Gracious Professionalism all teams contributed to this awesome season!

marshall 16-04-2016 19:39

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
I'm still avoiding voting because I haven't made up my mind. Here are some of my thoughts though:

Things I like:
  • More play time.
  • Unbag time... Particularly if the rules don't change next year. ;)
  • Proximity of the events was nice.

Things I don't like as much:
  • No time between matches to fix problems (we will get better at this).
  • Lack of understanding of the district points system (this will get better).
  • No recovery time on Sundays. The events just left me drained and I will need to plan for this next year (the plus side is missing less work but I found myself taking Mondays to recover?).
  • Seeing the same teams win similar awards for events (yes, we were guilty of this too and it is to be expected... it just gets dull).
  • Missing our friends from out of state and out of country. We liked playing with teams outside NC. Perhaps we will travel to Indiana next year. I'd like to see other teams allowed into the districts somehow.
  • The district events had tiny awards... I know, I'm being petty but it was kinda sad. I get it, I really do, but it was still sad to me. DCMP had the normal size awards. Like I said, I get it... still sad to me.

Things that I really don't like at all:
  • The flooring at the NC District events. It was good for standing on but trying to move/roll anything on it was a monumentally painful process.
  • Volunteer burnout was obvious. I am hoping to change that with the NC FIRST Alumni group but it is in its infancy. NC needs more volunteers. When we have them, we'll have the luxury of alternating them to help with burnout.
  • Districts need to recognize additional Dean's list and WFFA recipients (though maybe as they grow? This might already be a thing and I'm just not aware).

Things that I feel should be fixed:
  • NC needs more FRC Teams.
  • NC needs more FRC Teams.
  • NC needs more FRC Teams.

I'm sure I've got more but that's my list. At first glance it seems more negative than positive but truthfully, we enjoyed the move to districts. It was a great first year for it and I'm hoping for many more awesome years.

DubstepLion1 16-04-2016 20:30

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
I guess I failed to see some of the cons with the District system, but I'd have to agree with all of the points Marshall listed above. I did have a chance to go to the Palmetto Regionals last year and I marveled at the diversity of teams from Columbus, OH and all over the east coast. After getting to DCMP, I felt like there wasn't much emphasis put on the importance on winning something over winning something at a district event. Nonetheless, I was still surprised by how many rookie teams there were this year and I hope it continues to grow.

TDav540 16-04-2016 20:56

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli (Post 1573361)
Take a look at my custom user title.

The only thing I disliked was having very little pit time at DCMP before matches started. we had a very rough first day and a half and we're still trying to get all of our robot functional again.

I waited until after DCMP to make a final call on this, but truth be told I had already made up my mind after my first district competitions.

To answer the questions in by the OP, 1648 has attended two events for the past few years (2013-14, Palmetto and Peachtree; 2015, GSC and Peachtree). Peachtree was local, Palmetto was obviously not, and GSC was kinda in the middle.

ALL of our events were not close this year (Columbus, Albany, DCMP), and all required lodging. We did this for the strategic value of it, not because we couldn't pick a local event; we wanted to avoid the KSU/DCMP turnaround of two days, which I think was a good call in hindsight. Travel was 2 hours, 3.5 hours, and 1.5 hours respectively.

But after all of this, I definitely prefer the district system. I come from a team that always did one event in the regional system. So while the change hasn't been that significant for 1648 (though it is universally loved within the team), for me it's been dramatic. The extra plays, the small size of the competition, and the venues all made them feel like well run events. Did I have my gripes? Absolutely. The lack of practice fields at both of our districts was troubling and painfully annoying. The lack of metro-Atlanta events was disappointing. However, I think that as the state grows, having more events around the state will only make things better. I'm willing to chalk up the rest of the problems I saw to the first year of the system, and the positives definitely outweigh the negatives.

In terms of what I would like to see next year, the three priorities for me are:
1. Reorganize the event schedule so there aren't poorly timed, unavoidable back-to-back events.
2. Find a practice field for an event. This needs to be a priority over a lot of other things.
3. Figure out the Dean's List/Woodie Flowers situation. It was frustrating and odd to see them mention some things at a few events and ignore them at others. For example, Albany didn't mention anything about Woodie Flowers, but Dean's List Semifinalists were announced. The reverse was true at KSU, IIRC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1573410)
I have emailed Frank and asked about official inter-district play being opened between the districts. With MAR, CHS, and NC all right next to each other this seems like the prime location to pilot this. Teams could compete at any district events they want but earn points towards their own DCMP. This would help alleviate seeing the same teams over and over again. It would also allow teams on the edges of their districts(like 1629) to travel to events that are in other districts but may be closer than any of their own districts events.

Franks response said that this has been brought up to the district leaders and was voted down. If this is something that you may be interested in doing please talk to your own districts and try to convince them that this is something the teams in your district could benefit from. I will be talking to Stan about it in detail. Frank said the topic would be brought up again to be discussed.

I'd love to see PCH do this as well, at least with NC....obviously it isn't as easy since we aren't nearly as close, but I still think piloting it in NC would be an ideal option, I think.

PayneTrain 17-04-2016 08:49

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall (Post 1573962)
I'm still avoiding voting because I haven't made up my mind. Here are some of my thoughts though:

Things I like:
  • More play time.
  • Unbag time... Particularly if the rules don't change next year. ;)
  • Proximity of the events was nice.

Things I don't like as much:
  • No time between matches to fix problems (we will get better at this).
  • Lack of understanding of the district points system (this will get better).
  • No recovery time on Sundays. The events just left me drained and I will need to plan for this next year (the plus side is missing less work but I found myself taking Mondays to recover?).
  • Seeing the same teams win similar awards for events (yes, we were guilty of this too and it is to be expected... it just gets dull).
  • Missing our friends from out of state and out of country. We liked playing with teams outside NC. Perhaps we will travel to Indiana next year. I'd like to see other teams allowed into the districts somehow.
  • The district events had tiny awards... I know, I'm being petty but it was kinda sad. I get it, I really do, but it was still sad to me. DCMP had the normal size awards. Like I said, I get it... still sad to me.

Things that I really don't like at all:
  • The flooring at the NC District events. It was good for standing on but trying to move/roll anything on it was a monumentally painful process.
  • Volunteer burnout was obvious. I am hoping to change that with the NC FIRST Alumni group but it is in its infancy. NC needs more volunteers. When we have them, we'll have the luxury of alternating them to help with burnout.
  • Districts need to recognize additional Dean's list and WFFA recipients (though maybe as they grow? This might already be a thing and I'm just not aware).

Things that I feel should be fixed:
  • NC needs more FRC Teams.
  • NC needs more FRC Teams.
  • NC needs more FRC Teams.

I'm sure I've got more but that's my list. At first glance it seems more negative than positive but truthfully, we enjoyed the move to districts. It was a great first year for it and I'm hoping for many more awesome years.

On the topic of the short match times, we swallowed that pill at the beginning of the season and made one of our biggest priorities being making a robot that required this'll maintenance over 150 match cycles. 50 for build and unbag and 100 plays in the regular season. This requirement forced us to simplify and use whatever trick we could in the book to "bulletproof" the machine. We were quite literally running a test chassis into walls during week 2 to see how easily we could break stuff... The regional system and district system can require two entirely different build strategies depending on the kind of team you are. For us, it meant that nothing went on the robot before we were 100% sure it was ready for prime time.

We ran 3 events in 3 weekends. I'm not even gonna ask how 125 is able to run 4 events in 4 weekends, including literally simultaneously running a district event in the middle. Thankfully for everyone, our last event led into Easter, which led into spring break. The kids just completed their first normal week of school since the first week in March; I can't believe I haven't gotten a call from the director at the school about it. It's a grind, yo.

The worst part for me the whole season was paying for the stupid decision November me made, where I got home from Asheville at 1am Monday morning, then proceeded to shotgun unbag time in between work class and "sleep". That is a grind. What's crazy is that some kvs were pulling that as well, just replacing unbag time with field setup time. Now is the time for these emerging districts to embrace all of the great alumni I know we are producing.

I am not much of a fan of the current state of the " R" in FIRST. I think the changes FIRST is implementing through Dean's List modifications are damaging an already somewhat controversial award. The WFA committee is trying to keep themselves from almost actually drowning in essays, but I don't know for sure if it's the right solution to the obvious problem. I have immense respect for all of the crazy men and women who take time out of their job, their mentoring, and the people they probably share houses with and identify as their family to judge the essays, but I wonder if they think it's tenable long term? I also wonder what they think about having Minnesota get 4 wffas a year while FiM, MAR, PNW, and NE get as many with over double the team count... I guess people can and will say that it's an honor for anyone to be nominated for these awards, but if that comes from someone who, you know, actually won the award already, my eyes will probably roll out of my head.

Also, those floors are terrible. We had to unload our robot cart so it wouldn't sink in queue.

Jim Wilks 17-04-2016 09:55

Re: Calling all students and mentors from the CHS, NC, and PCH Districts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1574145)
I am not much of a fan of the current state of the " R" in FIRST. I think the changes FIRST is implementing through Dean's List modifications are damaging an already somewhat controversial award. The WFA committee is trying to keep themselves from almost actually drowning in essays, but I don't know for sure if it's the right solution to the obvious problem. I have immense respect for all of the crazy men and women who take time out of their job, their mentoring, and the people they probably share houses with and identify as their family to judge the essays, but I wonder if they think it's tenable long term? I also wonder what they think about having Minnesota get 4 wffas a year while FiM, MAR, PNW, and NE get as many with over double the team count... I guess people can and will say that it's an honor for anyone to be nominated for these awards, but if that comes from someone who, you know, actually won the award already, my eyes will probably roll out of my head.

My thoughts exactly.


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