FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Greetings Chief Delphi users, my name is Josh from FRC 2729, though I am not here to talk to you as someone from 2729.
I'm here to talk to you about a blog that I have been working on with my friend Sean from FRC 5113. What is this blog?
FIRST LGBT+ is a blog that we hope will help provide resources and increase confidence for LGBT+ people to follow their passion for STEM in and out of FIRST.
We hope to harbor more acceptance and visibility for LGBT+ people in FIRST.
We hope that this blog will be something that everyone in FIRST can benefit from no matter who they are
We hope that this blog will be a fun and helpful entity that is not affiliated with any one team, but is run by students all over the world.

We are currently looking for staff before we really get the blog going (being that there are only two of us at the moment)
We are looking for 1 person per region/district at the moment, though once the blog becomes properly started up we will increase that number to 2 staff per region/district
If you're interested in helping out you can find the application HERE

tldr: Trying to start up a blog for LGBT+ people in robotics, though we need support from the community, it's run by students and if you want to try help you, check out the application above

Have any question, opinions or comments? Respond to this thread, mention us on Twitter (@LGBT_of_FIRST), send us an Ask on Tumblr (lgbt-of-first) or email us (lgbtplusfirst@gmail.com)
Tumblr(Main Page)
Twitter

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

There were a few interesting posts in a recent thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=147043) about representation and accommodation of LGBTQ folks in STEM.

I've become increasingly interested in ways FIRST can, institutionally, be a better place for groups like these and how I, as a mentor, can be aware of my impact.

Looking forward to hearing more about this.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

This looks like it'll be great - there's a surprisingly small amount of talk about LGBT+ issues in FIRST.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Am I the only one that wouldn't expect there to be much, if any, talk about LGBT+ issues in FIRST?

There is a time and a place to discuss various things. An event about Science and Technology just doesn't strike me as the right time and place for LGBT+ discussions.

The same would be true for racism, anti-semitism, pro-life/pro-choice, etc.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Sorry but your comparision of racism, anti-semitism, and pro-life/choice to LGBT is completely off.

You can choose to not be one and the other is who you are....

That is why such a blog can be helpful

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

No you're not.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

While I do think this blog is valuable, the writers need to make sure they're going for quality over quantity. A bunch of blog posts that just happen to be by LGBT+ authors won't cut it. I'd rather see just one a week that is relevant and thoughtful.

This is coming from a gay FIRSTer.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

No, FIRST isn’t just a Science and Technology event.

"To transform our culture by creating a world where science and technology are celebrated and where young people dream of becoming science and technology leaders." Dean Kamen, Founder

Every year students and mentors from more than 3000 team overcome a huge range of challenges, these students develop solutions to many problems and overcome them in just 6 weeks. If students can accomplish this I’m sure that they can solve problems in their greater community, and overcome adversity within FIRST.

Racism and Anti-Semitism is obviously not acceptable, but there is nothing wrong with encouraging discussion about LGBT+ issues within FIRST, after all the students of FIRST are tomorrows leaders.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

As a mentor of a rookie team we have not really had to deal with LGBT+ issues, yet. I hope this could be another resource to help us make the experience inclusive, comfortable, and just as inspiring as it is for all the other students.

(As an example, I look forward to, and do read threads on how other teams handle transgender students in traveling situations. I would think (and hope) this would be our most challenging issue to overcome.)

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I don't think the point is have a discussion about the umbrella of general LGBT+ issues, but rather how FIRST integrates diverse communities into their platform. There is a very popular thread right now regarding inclusiveness with respect to gender in FRC, and there was an other about the FRC experience from the perpectice of a student of color. I'd expect this project to be addressing those issues introduced by the other under-represented demographics but from an LGBT+ scope.


Interestngly, industry leaders don't see FRC as just a "competition about science and technology". There are multiple workshops on the itinerary at Worlds (presented by corperate leaders) this year that are addressing the issue of diversity and inclusions within the FIRST programs. If industry leaders think these issues are important enough to discuss, who are we to render them irrelevant?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I'm all for what empowers students to go ahead and make more robots and STEM careers happen. Contrary to popular belief, FIRST is about Robots that Build Teams, not the other way around.

The new, hot term in business circles is "Inclusive Leadership". I think an important theme for the blog is encouraging that type of student leadership.

Go forth and inspire!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I'm so excited to see where this project goes! I hope the blog is inclusive of other marginalized and underrepresented communties in FIRST and successful in impacting robotics culture.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

We talk about African American representation in FIRST all the time, which often leads to discussions of racism. If our goal is to spread inspiration of STEM then LGBT is a great place for us for focus our energies.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

We talk of making FRC more inclusive and better for LGBT+ people but that brings me to the thought; if there are issues for LGBT+ people in FRC how bad and to what extent are they? I'm not saying there aren't issues for them in FRC I'm just wondering how big of an issue this is as I am not as aware of issues for LGBT+ people in FRC as i am with say women in STEM.

Those who have experienced discriminatory actions or negative actions towards LGBT+ people in FRC can you elaborate and share on some of the issues you have observed?

By the way I think this is an awesome idea that can be very appealing to the LGBT+ niche in FRC. Keep it up!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

The idea is for us to take time to take posts, because the ideal of quality over quantity is one that should be followed by as many people as physically possible.
Staff members will start their own posts about things relevant to LGBT+ in FIRST, whether that's an interview, resources or stories of their experiences in FIRST being LGBT+! So we do not intend to rush posts to come out or set deadlines for our staff.


Of course! We'll being doing our best to be as inclusive as we can to everyone in FIRST.


Once the blog is properly started (which may not be until after Worlds because I know how busy people are) we hope that we can be a resource for both you as a mentor and for your team members!
We love to see teams that are publicly supportive of their LGBT+ members and hope that more will follow in their footsteps.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Hey Josh. This is a great thing that you are doing and it is a wonderful idea. I hope it springs off and makes the FIRST community even more accepting of differences than it already is.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Just my two cents, i think this is a really cool idea! Sent my application in on the tumblr, cant wait to hear back! :)

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Thanks Humza! I hope that everyone, including our team can benefit from this!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

What a great idea! I've been hoping for something like this for a while!

Like mentioned earlier, I hope you include resources for mentors who want to make sure that their teams are as inclusive as possible! I can think of a number of ways that teams might be accidentally excluding students just because they don't know they are (it may be as little as using gender/sex interchangeably on team forms or as big as a mentor accidentally 'outing' a student to their family). As mentors, we spend a lot of time with these kids and I think it is important for us to understand their situations and hardships and to accomadate them accordingly.

I also think that if we want kids to dream of becoming "science and technology heroes" we have to make sure that they feel represented and welcome in science and technology. Well done!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

As a gay mentor (who, as some others in this thread have said, doesn't make a big deal about it to my team - in fact, I am so heteronormative that my team likely has no idea) I can see where there's non-inclusive language being used even on my team that makes me slightly uncomfortable. I'm able to just shrug it off and not worry about it. However, when I put myself in the shoes of a student, I can easily see how some of this language could make a student feel unwelcome and ostracized, especially if they weren't yet comfortable enough with themselves and figuring out their identity.

I think that this blog is a great idea. There definitely should be a diversity aspect to FIRST, and not just about sexual orientation and gender identity. Someone earlier in the thread said that discussions about racism, anti-Semitism, etc don't belong in FIRST. I couldn't disagree more - it's a discussion that needs to be urgently had. If a member of a group, whatever that is, is made to feel uncomfortable (or would be made to feel uncomfortable if they were present) in any way it is unacceptable. The conversation needs to happen right then and there about why the behavior is unacceptable and how to avoid it in the future.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

If you want to have a discussion about diversity and inclusion, shouldn't it be that we are all human and deserve similar opportunities? By creating separate blogs/posts/groups for each category, aren't you actually contributing to the lack of diversity and inclusion?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

We absolutely all deserve similar opportunities. Unfortunately some members of our community are denied opportunities or excluded (directly and indirectly, intentionally and unintentionally) because of their race/gender/sexual orientation/religion. It's for this reason that there's a need for specific attention for these groups; to help address the inequity they face.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Not really. Each group has separate problems to address, and nuance may be lost by grouping all marginalized peoples together.

You are right in saying that we all deserve similar opportunities - however, the ways to them will vary from group to group.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

honestly, to me. FIRST is about Science and technology, not so much political/social or cultural views, That to me seems like a team level fix and not a FIRST level fix, just my 2 cents

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

True I believe that most of the work will have to come from changes within teams. But having said that, having a movement that spans all of first, to help guide teams to the kind of changes that are necessary, will have a much larger impact than leaving it up to the individual teams to try and figure out what changes are needed.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

That is true, Though normally (From what i've seen over my years) FIRST tries to steer clear of topic like these as they cause division amongst people. People normally don't like to be told what they should and shouldn't believe or run and not run their teams, as well as their views on matters such as this and others.
again... just my 2 cents

Just a quick note.

That logo violates First's branding standards. Essentially there is not enough whitespace between your words and the FIRST's logo vertically.

Its probably not a huge deal right now but in the long road if this gets as big as you want it could cause some issues.

You can check out the FIRST branding standards on this page.
http://www.firstinspires.org/brand

Good luck.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

There was an attempt to use the guidelines somewhere even though that was a little lost, though I am trying to contact FIRST about
A) Actually using their legal property for our logo
B) If there should be improvements so that the logo can fit better with the branding (Which there most definitely are)
Thank you for the heads up though!

We'll be doing our best to supply resources for mentors and students alike! Hopefully mentors will not only benefit by helping team members, but by feeling included themselves.
Though I'm sure many LGBT+ FIRST-ers know the feeling of team members saying things that would make them uncomfortable even when they don't realize it. I know that personally I do and it's a tad enlightening to see that even mentors feel that way!
Keep up the good work with your team!

As was said, changing FIRST as a whole would be a slow and arduous process that would most likely not go very well as there are clashes in beliefs, but going with teams at a time would be the way to go (like you said). Even if it were only a handful of students on a team that's still an impact that we want to have.
With that being said, we're not going to try our hand and force teams to be accepting of LGBT+ people, but we hope that people will see that it's the right thing to do because it effects more people within FIRST than people realize.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I think Josh's stated goals are to provide resources for everyone, with a emphasis on and perspective from the LGBT+ community. It may be a separate page, but its a resource everyone can utilize when trying to confront diversity issues. Would you say groups like NEMO segregate non-engineer mentors from the rest of the FIRST community?

I don't see how what Josh is doing is in conflict with your statement. He's an individual on a team, reaching out to provide support and a voice to others in the FIRST community. it's not like this is a mandate coming from New Hampshire.

First of all, I commend you for taking the initiative and starting something new to further enrich the FIRST experience for everyone.

If it turns out you need to change the logo, PM me and I'll either help design or mentor a student in developing a new one.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

The thing that I believe that everyone is currently overlooking right now is how this topic irrelevant to the nature of FIRST. I am strongly against the ideas and beliefs of the LGBT+ society, but I do not think it is right to force my own opinions down someone else's throat. I do not see why it matters if a gay man writes an interesting blog post versus a straight one. It is not think that interacting with robots is a blatantly straight activity. I believe this post is just to present an uproar in the FIRST community to unite over some pointless propaganda for a new blog.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

First off, I think this is an awesome idea!

I've read a lot of the comments in the thread, and I understand why some people may be concerned. But, when I was in High School, I had a really hard time fitting in and it was difficult for me to make friends. Being on a FIRST team was one of the first times I felt that I belonged. The way I see it, FIRST teams are supposed to be a safe place where students can explore their love of science and technology without being discriminated against for any reason (race/religion/gender/sexual orientation etc).

I don't think FIRST being open and welcoming to anyone who wants to be involved takes any political or social stance. Besides, this is a private effort that isn't directly affiliated with FIRST HQ.

Good luck on the blog and keep up the awesome work!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

It may benefit you to read the OP again, and to read Mr_Moko's subsequent posts. If you can read those thoroughly and still believe that his intent is only to ignite uproar, I think you may need to reevaluate how your own beliefs are affecting your judgement.

The intent is very clearly to provide resources to a group of student/mentors who are in the minority in FIRST. Similar to how we try to provide resources to women in engineering, LGBT+ is another group that could use them. That's it.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

+1. My experience has been the same way as well. My FIRST team was really the first place I felt I belonged and could really excel at something I was really passionate about.

At the core, FIRST is about inspiration of ALL students and I think that this blog can be a great way to help inspire an extremely under represented minority.

Great work with the blog and good luck!!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I read it thoroughly the first time and believe this is a waste of a thread on chief delphi.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

FIRST's welcoming, accepting attitude is one major reason that I became involved. It's easy for someone in my position to think that things are perfect -- but that's my point of view showing.

The blog that Josh and others are creating helps me understand others FIRST experience, good or bad. I have the same goal as Alfred Adler: "Seeing with the eyes of another, listening with the ears of another, and feeling with the heart of another".

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

While my own opinions my differ from yours, you are entitled to your own opinion and I appreciate you feeling comfortable enough in this format to speak your mind. That said,

The importantance of having an FRC blog run by those in the LGBT+ community is perspective. We want to learn about FIRST from all perspectives and angles.

Second, I want to speak personally and say that the gays do not have some sort of propaganda-driven agenda.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Then we have nothing to discuss, you have my opinion about your perception. There are a good many people who have suggested their support for this thread so I recommend that you respectfully withdraw from the conversation. We don't have to speak about it further if you like.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

The value of this thread is a matter of perspective. No one's forcing you to join the conversation. In fact, you don't even have to respond to this post. I and others will understand if you don't want to open the link to this thread again, since you feel its a "waste."

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

"I don't like this and disagree with it, so nobody should have to read about it."

This is the internet, feel free to not click on the incredibly clear thread title.

Who the hell cares if some people want to discuss this and some don't?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

My team has a strong connection with LGBTQ in our community; a disproportionately large number of students are gay, bisexual, nonbinary, or have gay parents or siblings (about one in five on our team). I'm very happy to see INDIVIDUALS and TEAMS addressing the experiences of these folks as they relate to FIRST and other STEM activities. A shame (but not a surprise) that some folks find this to be negative. FRC is a large organization and there will be all kinds.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

And Aura can earn respect for her/his/their opinion when he/she/they can drop the anonymous status.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

First off, I would like to say that I love the blog idea. But, I would like to make a point after just listening to what Andy Baker had to say at the Indiana District Championship.

Those of you who are saying that FIRST is only about STEM couldn't be any further from what it truly is about. While you might only see students building robots and learning about STEM, you miss that we, as mentors, are trying to build better individuals. We teach them that sometimes failure is an inevitable step towards success. They need to understand that everything is not always going to going their way. Like any team, they need to learn to work together to achieve their goals. It's an application to the real world that you're not always going to like everyone that you work with. They learn to lean on and trust their teammates when they need to get through those tough times. A team, if built right, is like a family. True family will accept anyone for who they are, no matter what. To quote Dean Kamen off of the FIRST website, "FIRST is more than robots. The robots are a vehicle for students to learn important life skills. Kids often come in not knowing what to expect- of the program nor of themselves. They leave, even after the first season, with a vision, with confidence, and with a sense that they can create their own future."

So, we eventually get to this idea for an LGBT blog for fellow FIRSTers. I don't know if many of you have been paying attention to the real world, but some people are saying some pretty cruel things about their community. Young people see what these people are saying and some of them are from the LGBT community. They get scared that they won't be accepted because of who they are and that's just not right. So, if this blog helps even one student by letting them know that they are not alone and are strong enough, then it's a perfect idea. You know what, if you don't agree with it, that's totally fine, but don't go complaining about how it doesn't represent FIRST because it absolutely does. If you don't like the blog idea, don't read it! No one is going to force you to.

To conclude, I am going to call out anybody who wants to exclude people because of how they look, who they love, or what gender they are. We need the world to be a more accepting place, and if you're preaching the opposite, well, you're part of the problem.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

This sounds like a great idea! It's things like this that set FIRST apart from other organizations.
I don't think you'll end up integrating into the actual FIRST corporation, to avoid controversy, but as an outside movement I think it can be very successful.
Aura has given us a great example of why we need blogs like this. :)

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

No, I don't view NEMO the same way. First, it is directly involved in FIRST. Second, many of the issues that are brought up are pertinent to the running of a team that engineering mentors aren't necessarily aware of. Third, I don't believe they started out as a group of people that felt disenfranchised. I believe it started as a group of people trying to figure out how they could contribute to teams and FIRST to advance the program.

Two other things is like to state:
1. I am an ally of LGBT+. I am only trying to raise questions about this idea to make people think about whether it truly is the best thing.
2. Instead of the logo being as it currently is, I'd suggest making it

LGBT+
in
FIRST

The way the logo currently appears, it seems as though this is an officially sanctioned FIRST concept/blog.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

How exactly does one choose their race? How exactly does one choose to be Jewish if they were born into a Jewish family? Racism and anti-semitism are the rhetoric that disenfranchises people in the situations.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

My only point was that groups like this aren't necessarily exclusionary. In college I was a member of the Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers, despite being a caucasian non-engineer major. I was welcomed with open arms and had a blast. That experience is what informs my perspective on such matters.

I hear your concern. At least one poster on this thread has expressed negative feelings about this idea. That's fine, its not for them. It's for people like the OP, and allies like you and me, if we choose to join.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

You really can't blame this person for not wanting to revile their identity or team Info, it has come to a point in society these days, that if you don't except the politically "Correct" views, then you are labeled a homophobic/intolerant/racist/bigoted fool. it's sad to see this as, when they are only sharing their opinion as you all are sharing yours. if people weren't so thin skinned and could take some criticism from time to time, this world would be a little more calm.

My 2 cents on this matter.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I loved working with your guys team at competitions over the past 5 years and I have loads of respect for you all, and while I don't want to start and argument with you i also cant ignore it as well,

part in question: "We need the world to be a more accepting place, and if you're preaching the opposite, well, you're part of the problem"

couldn't your statement go the other way as well? until lately in society, the opposite was true was it not? Don't get me wrong, I don't hate or dislike people that are (whatever the politically correct term for LGBT is).

The other part in question:" They get scared that they won't be accepted because of who they are and that's just not right"

Who cares if you're excepted by others? as soon as you derive your happiness or joy/pleasures from others, is the same time you set yourself up for sadness and disappointment. if these people don't like you for who you are, then are they really people you would want for friends anyways? wouldn't you rather have someone that accepts you for who you are rather then someone who has been told that they must except others or they are racist, ext.? these are just my thoughts on this matter. and i hope to see you all at worlds.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Seeking acceptance from others is part of human nature. To think that needing others is setting oneself up for sadness is very unhealthy and denies the facts about being human. The friend argument doesn't quite measure up, either. Sure, we'd rather have people that accept us for who we are. But what if we love robotics and don't want to have to leave?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Aura has remained anonymous through several rounds of posts in which he/she/they made comments they she/he/they said would not reflect well on their/her/his team (correctly so). Anonymity may have served a purpose for this person but it doesn't lend them any respectability.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I see that there is some confrontation on this thread, though that was to be expected in all honesty.
When making the initial post I expected some people to disagree with the idea of having this blog and just because they do that does not mean you should call them out on it.

As noble as it may be to retort to someone's negative remark I'd advise against it as I personally dislike watching people argue. We should just let everyone post their opinions, concerns and questions about this idea and let it be that.

-----------

On a very different note, there is a new logo which is most likely temporary. So any feedback on that would be appreciated!
MKII of logo HERE

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Seeking acceptance comes in may forms, either through money, objects, friends or religion. so yes, in a way it is apart of human nature to find acceptance, however. i should have clarified my meaning of putting happiness in others, I meant putting happiness/acceptance in friendships will normaly fail given enough time.however you normal can find both of these in other forms of relationships, I.e spouse or your kids/parents, (these are normal the ones that last forever) as the saying goes. "friends come and go but family is forever." secondly I don't think I said anything about leaving, though i may be wrong. nor was/am I suggesting it. just because no one excepts your belief in sexuality, doesn't mean they don't except you. Not everyone will see eye to eye on certain matters, and sometimes this needs to be said during a conversation, it reminds both parties that you can still be friends even if you don't agree on certain matters.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Respect's definition varies depending upon the person in question. some may find respect in the fact that this person is going against what is now becoming the norm, others that disagree with the person's perspective and have no respect towards them. also it is truly sad and incorrectly wrong to hold everyone on a team accountable for the actions that one or a few have done, I'm sure you can see this in our society today can you not?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Sifting through to understand your meaning. If you are asking whether it's okay for a team member to anonymously post negative things on CD (including other subjects besides LGBT, look at Aura's own history) with the stated purpose of the anonymity being that they will avoid consequences from the team and the community, then no. It's not okay.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Sorry your thread got derailed. It was almost inevitable, this being CD.
Digging the new logos! The second variation in that album looks good on the dark background.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Typically it's the homophobes, intolerants, racists, and bigots that are labelled as homophobes, intolerants, racists, and bigots. Having an opinion and being one or more of those are not mutually exclusive. There's a difference between freely speaking your mind and actively trying to shut down conversation, the latter of which Aura is trying to do.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Interested to see how this progresses. Definitely an issue about which I haven't heard too much

science does not exclude you from talking about other issues. no one should ever ignore other things just because it isn't their main focus. I'm a history major who is also an active FIRST volunteer. events about science and Technology have no relevance in my field.

Imagine if only scientists cared about global warming.

The issue with saying "we're all human" and "we all have issues" is that you're whitewashing those issues and ignoring them. What I have run into as a Jew is very different than the environment a homosexual, trans person, black person, etc. have experienced. trying to lump them all together removes our ability to understand how anti-semitism (and anti-Israeli sentiment, which is a huge issue right now) differs from racism differs from homophobia.

It might just be possible that you're inciting more of an uproar by being so belligerent here. if you find it irrelevant, why bother to comment?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Hey Josh. I think this is a cool idea. These types of resources in FIRST/FRC are a fantastic way to provide support and community.

People that share my opinion also see the value in these types of communities. Minorities can often feel discouraged, underrepresented, discriminated, and excluded. These types of communities won't eliminate these these issues, but they're a great way to provide a sense of inclusion where it otherwise might be missing.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Let's keep the discussion focused on the blog, please. The identity behind other, anonymous accounts is irrelevant to this discussion.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Like you said, the issues will almost certainly be there, and we hope to mitigate at least some of the issues in the long run. Hopefully this blog gets enough support so that such an accomplishment can be made!

Thank you for agreeing with that.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Here is my unwanted 2 cents on this. I don't like the idea, It seems to me that First's biggest draw (well one of them) is being inclusive. We have never asked a student if they were gay, straight, black, white, male, female... none of that really matters. We have had LGBT students and it really was no big deal.

I don't particularly care for separating out a group of students/mentors for any reason. I'd be against it if it were a group like: "First Democrats" or "First Republicans" or "First ????" We are one community, separating us out for any arbitrary reason is kinda against what I thought we were all working towards.

Rich.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

It would be awesome if we lived in a world where everyone was treated the same, and I know that you are trying to say that by focusing on what makes everyone different doesn't seem like it would help make the world an equal place.

But that's not how it always works. If you don't want to read the blog, then don't read it, but clearly some folks want this to exist. They're not making a corner of the internet that says "no straight or cis people allowed," they're just making a space where conversations about LGBT+ in FIRST can start.

Ignoring our differences won't make them go away, so we might as well try understanding how our differences change the way we experience things. This blog is a great way for the LGBT+ Community to share those experiences.

Also, if your team has been inclusive and a positive thing for those folks on your team, then that's great!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I think this is a great idea! I think students should start more of these types of communities to ally around each other, especially when they fall into the minority and sometimes tend to get steamrolled over when it comes to ideas, leadership, and decision making. If we could have more communities like what FIRST Ladies is/are, that would be soooooooo cool! Have a community by students, for students.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

But how is this any different than Women in STEM/FIRST campaigns?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I've become friends with more LGBT+ FIRSTers over the years, and I'm very excited to see this blog. I am eager to read more about LGBT+ experiences in FIRST. I hope that this blog helps me become a better ally, mentor, and volunteer.

Even though FIRST emphasis is on STEM and robots, it's the people who are always most important in my opinion. And learning from a variety of people (especially those different from me) is a great way to become a better person. I find that when I surround myself by like-minded people, that I don't learn nearly as much as when I am around diversity.

I welcome this blog, and am eager to follow, learn, and support in anyway that I can. (I love editing, so if anyone ever wants me to edit their content, just shoot me a PM).

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I'd love to hear more perspectives from straight cis people telling LGBT people their identities don't matter and that their struggles with inclusion and acceptance aren't valid, or that their very existence is a "political" issue that FIRST shouldn't even acknowledge. Please make more posts about this, it will really help all of us understand your uniquely informed position! This is sarcasm, please stop. If you can't be supportive, just move on.

---

In all seriousness, best of luck with the blog! Marginalized groups grow stronger and more supportive when they come together like this. I've known too many people who felt like they had to leave their identities at the door in order to be accepted on their robotics teams, and resources like this one will really help those students whom are finding themselves.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Unfortunately, there are many people for which "family is forever" doesn't apply. As young people likely to spend the next several years moving around and interacting with thousands of people I would discourage an attitude that 'friendship is fleeting'. If you cultivate and maintain your close friendships they can easily be lifelong and as fulfilling as familial relationships.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Very glad to see this. Can't wait to see it's impact on creating an inclusive environment for the LGBT+ community in FIRST!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I totally agree with this statement. I don't see any reason to separate out any group of kids. FIRST seems to be a pretty inclusive group and doesn't seem to have a major issue with discriminating. It is the same thing with girls in STEM events. I always feel awkward in those.

Besides if we have groups for LGBQ, shouldn't we have them for African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, Christians, Muslims, Jews, whites, straights, and every other defining group? If we have it for one, others will follow with other groups. Instead of diverse teams and forums like CD, we get small forums such as mentioned above.

FIRST has been such a great organization to me because teams and youth focus on robots instead of all the political correctness everywhere. Please don't bring it here.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I completely agree with you, the last thing FIRST needs is to be taken over by SJWs. If people need issues to focus on, it should be issues that affect everyone such as climate change for example.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

This quote would have been better if it ended with, "...that I know of."

Just because you do not see any issues, does not mean that they do not exist. This is called Cognitive Dissonance: when your beliefs do not necessarily align with something else that is true.

Your personal experience cannot speak for others. If LGBT+ FIRSTers say that this blog is something that would be useful to them, then who is anyone to say that it isn't needed?

It would be like someone saying, "I'm hungry. I'm going to eat this banana." And someone else replying, "You're not hungry. You don't need that banana." Who are you to tell someone else that they aren't hungry? That they don't need this support group?

So just because a group is focusing on one thing, doesn't mean that the people involved can't focus on another thing as well. Supporting a LGBT+ FIRST blog doesn't mean that you CAN'T support research on climate change. This is a red herring logical fallacy.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Acknowledging that LGBT+ people exist and should be treated fairly is neither "political correctness" nor "SJW" talk. You're making an active effort to silence marginalized groups because you would rather pretend they, and the struggles they face, don't exist. This is quite simply contrary to the spirit and mission of FIRST, which is to inspire and spread awareness of science and technology worldwide. How can we inspire the population in general if we ignore the calls of marginalized groups trying to stand up for themselves? FIRST is for everyone.

I'm biting my tongue here to prevent a side discussion about the loaded and problematic implications of "political correctness" and "SJW" as terms used to dismiss out of hand the concerns of everyone who isn't a straight cis white dude. I don't support their usage in this context, I'm just trying to frame the issue in terms the poster used and might understand

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

This sounds like a wonderful idea. Statistically speaking, all teams have LGBTQI people living in their communities. That includes your community whether you realize it or not. It is my hope that we all understand how valuable it is to diversify our teams if we want to fulfill our mission of spreading interest in STEM. Unfortuntely, there is still a lot of prejudice against and fear of non-heteronormative people in the world. This blog has the potential to help teams become better acquainted with LGBTQI people and understand some of the unique issues they face, especially issues that pertain to their participation on a team.

I wish you well in your effort to bring another resource to make FIRST one of the most inclusive communities in the world.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Can someone please list some of the issues that affect the LGBT+ members within the FIRST and/or STEM contexts that would be addressed by this blog?

I'm trying to understand how it fits in, but still have no clue.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I'll start!

1. People posting on Chief Delphi, questioning why a blog like this is needed.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Don't argue against the formation of a group just because you personally don't see a need for it. Yes, it would be great not to need it, but you're focusing on the goal to the exclusion of reality.

There are many applicable analogies. One of my favorites is a banquet table. Some people have, for whatever reason, received less food than others, or perhaps no food at all. There is a call for those people to be given food so that they do not go hungry. But anyone who tries to bring food to them specifically is stopped by others who proclaim that everyone deserves food, and nobody should get special treatment.

You might have all the food you need, and you might not believe that your situation is somehow privileged. But please don't let that belief lead you to think that you should stop people from giving food where it is wanted.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Bingo! Well said Alan.

Also, again, if you disagree with this so much and don't want to change your mind, ignore it and don't try to censor a public website.

Not everyone needs an advocate for them, but if there's even one kid or mentor who feels more comfortable in their own skin after reading a blog, is it really a bad thing?

A simple blog isn't ruining your experience of FIRST, stop pretending like it will.

Trump 4 Prez /s

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I support LGBTQ+ people 100%, I actually consider my self in one of the +. But I have never seen any issues regarding them, nor have I ever heard of any issues within FIRST. I understand that there are many issues outside of FIRST that they encounter, but I don't think those issues need to be at the forefront of FIRST. I have nothing against the existence of this blog either. However I just hope that FIRST does not turn into something where humans that are not members of of these discriminant groups do not feel discriminated against. It would all be better if people could just focus on the robots.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I am betting that in most teams homophobic jokes/phrases are told on a daily basis, and are passed. Really, homophobia is everywhere, just try to pay some attention...

Yes, it is important to discuss about LGBTs in FIRST just as much as it is important to discuss it in the context of any other educational program, especially one which requires an extensive amount of team, and in which being able to trust your fellow twam members /mentors is essential.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I find it difficult to take seriously anyone who uses the phrase "SJW," but I'll give it a go. These individual communities, whether FIRST Ladies or NEMO or whatever else, provide something to FIRSTers. Whether that's support or a forum to vent about negative experiences, I can't imagine why you would care. If it pertained to you, you'd probably understand why it's needed. And if it's not needed, then it'll go unused, and frankly that's a good outcome. If LGBT+ folks are getting the support they need without this blog, then that's fantastic. The OP, who has personal experience in this, does not feel that that's currently the case. You don't have personal experience in needing such support, so I'd recommend that you don't butt in and tell other people what they do or don't need.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Nobody has pretended that it will. Just because we ask questions and challenge what people's initial response is doesn't make us "fatalists" for lack of a better term right now. (If someone has a better term, please provide it.)

I emailed the op asking if there were any particular issues and he said he personally has not experienced any negative experience because of his orientation. He said the blog isn't going to be about normal first things per se and more about the experiences of being lgbt+ in First. I think we should all hold any judgement until the blog atleast actually becomes active. And remember you do not have to read it.

When I started F4 (a student run livestream) I got a ton of backlash from mentors and students alike saying the idea of this was stupid and unnecessary. Although I disagree about the stupid part I agree that it's not necessary. But neither is chiefdelphi, r/frc, gamesense, fun, Nemo, ect. First could 100% survive without any of these resources but It would be a pretty boring lack luster without them.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I would like for you to read these quotes:

from this wired article.

This shows that while you may not understand why a blog like this is needed, many who would otherwise choose STEM fields choose to not pursue them because they feel ostracized and have no role models to look up to. This is not just true of trans people, but of all people. That is why groups supporting women, minorities, etc in STEM exist. It is to help the marginalized realize that there were trailblazers before them and to have mentors and leaders to look up to.

Many in FIRST look up to Dean, Dr. Flowers, and all of the WFFA and WFA winners because they all inspire us in one way or another. The LGBTQ+ community deserves to have these role models as well, and while many may not be as visible as a WFA winner, or Dean or Dr. Flowers, if a blog like this has the potential to provide that inspiration, and if for no other reason, isn't that good enough?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

2. I'd be a lot happier if there was a visible, vibrant community of LGBTQ FIRST participants I could point to when approached about the subject by students on my team.

I'll proudly wear the badge of Social Justice Warrior (SJW, for the uninitiated). You may think I'm taking over FIRST, but chances are I've been around since most of y'all were born.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I was actually referring to the student who mentioned she wanted to keep "political correctness" out of her FIRST experience, not you.

I am also not part of the LGBQT community, but I have plenty of friends who are and thought this was a cool idea.

Look, I don't see this harming anyone. I guess that's my real point.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I would like to thank everyone who has been discussing on this thread thus far, whether it's support or even criticism!

I can understand the worries of some people that this would just be a division for LGBT+ members of FIRST and those who are not, but the idea (like a few other projects) is to be a community that lives organically in FIRST. Let's face it, FRC consumes a lot of time for anyone involved and we love it! So a place for people that are underrepresented to touch base within community that is such a large part of all of our lives is important to us.

With all of that said it's not just for LGBT+ members of our community either! It's for all the allies and those who wish to do a better job at making this wonderful community even better than it is! We intend to do our best to do our best to provide as many resources for everyone in FIRST as possible.

For Mentors we'll provide as much as we can so you can make your teams a fun, safe and inclusive space for everyone.
For Students we'll provide as much as we can so you can feel welcomed in FIRST and have a place where you know people will support you no matter who you are.
For FIRST as a whole we'll be doing our best to make it a community that no one feels left out in.

Making even just one person feel safe and included in FIRST is how we know that we have succeeded.
Making just one team more accepting is how we know that we have succeeded.

We're all part of FIRST and that means that we're family, while you don't have to love every person in your family you should respect them and make them feel welcomed and safe.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Happily. A lot of these are just little things that pile up. One great thing a blog bringing light to these things could do is make people realize that they were unintentionally harming others and stop.

1. The use of the phrase "that's gay". Unless you are pointing at a gay wedding, that phrase gives a sense of negativity to being gay. If I see someone call something bad "gay", how will that affect my perception of myself?

2. Hotel rooms (and other methods of grouping) for those in the trans community. Sticking trans kids in a separate room because you can't figure out where they belong gives a sense of otherness.

3. FIRST is also an avenue through which to break the stereotypes that gay men are "fairies" and are not engineers, in the same way that FIRST has inspired many young women to follow their dreams.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

What would be a better course of action in this scenario?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I unfortunately can't give you a perfect answer, but I can say that a LGBT+ FIRST blog would certainly open it up for discussion and give people who might have a better solution a voice.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Putting them I'm a room with the gender they identify as would br much better.

My friend (and co-founder of the blog) had to be stuck in his own room because he's trans and his school/the parents of his team saw him as a liability.
This is extremely unfair to separate people just because of their gender, is it not?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Why would a thread on CD not serve the same purpose?

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

It could! But threads on CD come and go, and it would just make sense to have a website dedicated to the discussion of all of these topics.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Imagine hearing all your friends giggling in their hotel rooms while you are alone and lying awake. No one on the team wanted me to room by myself, my mentors didn't want me by myself, but at the end of the day, the school administration decided for me. I wasn't told about my rooming situation until the day of.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I know this, it is truly sad. I'm also not saying that you shouldn't try and make fiends, ("in friendships will normally fail given enough time") what I am saying though, is that most (Meaning if you have 10 friends, most likely you will have no more then 1-2 out of the 10 in 1-10 years)that you are still in contact with. and if you have a healthy relationship with your children/parents/siblings you will have that friendship forever.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Then explain to me how a blog works. I was under the impression that they are not designed for discussion.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

You are correct when you say blogs are not the best when it comes to discussion. The blog is a way to share with the community.
For discussion on the other hand, we currently have a Discord server in the works to see how that can help interaction with other staff members and just anyone interested in communicating with one another!

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

A blog is also valuable in that it demands nothing except the attention of the reader. It can take time for people to become confident enough to actually share their experiences with others. Seeing other people share their similar experiences can provide validation to one's own experiences.

You don't need to present a complete "fix" all at once-- one blog that talks about LGBT+ experiences in FIRST is better than the zero blogs we had yesterday, even if it isn't a perfect blog and even if some people dislike or resent the fact that it exists.

For all of you out there questioning the need or purpose of this blog, I'd ask you to take a step back. It exists because some people felt strongly enough to make it exist. Trust them a little bit and see what they have to say-- we can all learn from the wildly diverse experiences of others.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

I am going to bow out of this thread now as I have been told privately that, "You are coming across as nitpicking for no reason." My intention was never to nitpick, but to question and challenge respectfully.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

Mostly because of people who jump in to question the whole concept and try to convince others that it is not a useful topic of discussion.

Re: FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)
 

That's very sad. Unfortunately for you, administrators will often base their decisions out of the fear of the unknown. Unless your lucky to have an administrator willing to take a stand, they will often take the safe route. It's better to isolate the member than to take the potential heat from some angry parents, for example.

I'm not claiming to know what exactly went down in your particular situation, but it seems that the whole situation could've been avoided. If you have friends on the teams with parents willing to fight for you, perhaps they can bring the issue to school administration on your behalf.