Originally Posted by pfreivald (Post 1577889)

I disagree. It's *also* discourteous to leave soda bottles, food wrappers, [beer] cups, hot dog wrappers, and everything else for the cleaning staff (who will have enough to do regardless)--and if FIRST can do anything at all right, it can teach a generation of kids both to clean up after themselves and to not make more of a mess than they have to.

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz (Post 1578418)

Pat,
If we could only get that through to the party people who attend concerts and theaters these days. It is pretty nasty trying to pull cables out of that mess when striking a TV production after everyone has left. One event I worked had less than 500 people in the audience. The cleanup crew started picking up recyclables first and filled two 55 gallon drums with glass bottles.

Originally Posted by Chris_Ely (Post 1580133)

I am seeing planes already during opening ceremonies, from the webcast. Remember this is being broadcast all over the world. Mentors, please keep your students from throwing planes.

Originally Posted by Chris_Ely (Post 1580133)

I am seeing planes already during opening ceremonies, from the webcast. Remember this is being broadcast all over the world. Mentors, please keep your students from throwing planes.

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

you people are sticks in the mud, lighten up a little, and let kids be kids.

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

you people are sticks in the mud, lighten up a little, and let kids be kids. it has happened every year and it will most likely happen every year until FIRST bans it. telling students off only make it worse, so if you want to stop your team from doing it then just do that, but you don't have a right to tell those of us who are not on your team to stop because you find it disrespectful or immature.

Originally Posted by orangemoore (Post 1580212)

The planes have already touched down.

http://i.imgur.com/kJm8jqw.jpg

They actually distracted me from the ceremony. Not cool.

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

you people are sticks in the mud

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

lighten up a little, and let kids be kids.

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

it has happened every year and it will most likely happen every year until FIRST bans it.

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

telling students off only make it worse

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

so if you want to stop your team from doing it then just do that

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

but you don't have a right to tell those of us who are not on your team to stop because you find it disrespectful or immature.

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

you people are sticks in the mud, lighten up a little, and let kids be kids. it has happened every year and it will most likely happen every year until FIRST bans it. telling students off only make it worse, so if you want to stop your team from doing it then just do that, but you don't have a right to tell those of us who are not on your team to stop because you find it disrespectful or immature.

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580197)

but you don't have a right to tell those of us who are not on your team to stop because you find it disrespectful or immature.

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1580201)

If "letting kids be kids" results in someone losing an eye, are those kids going to take responsibility?

Or are the mentors who are allowing the kids to do so going to feel the heat?



Correct answer: Yes.


I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to deal with all the paperwork. I plan to have a sudoku book on me before Einstein...whether or not I happen to work a puzzle or two remains to be seen. I've seen (at one time long ago) somebody watching Monty Python. While those aren't the greatest things to do, they sure beat paper airplanes for cleanup and non-disruption of speeches.

As far as it happening every year, I can vouch that that's NOT the case. Seems to have started only after FIRST moved the CMP to St. Louis. It leaves a lot of extra trash for somebody to clean up (and I would hope that the throwers do try to clean some up...)


By the way, you're right that we don't have a right to tell those on not on our teams what to do. But... Did you just tell a bunch of folks who aren't on your team what to do? And bear in mind one other thing: Some of those folks you just told that to (and some of the folks down on the floor that might be getting hit by the airplanes) happen to be in positions to hire folks like you--young FIRSTers just getting out of high school and/or college. Would you believe that acting immature and disrespectful can impact your chances of being hired? I think I would.

Originally Posted by Koko Ed (Post 1580246)

Then you can get off your butt and help clean up the mess they made. I'm not doing it this year!

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580444)

If your company cant see past the hormones of KIDS and see the value that these kids have learned and done, then there is a bigger problem then what you're complaining (for lack of a better word) about

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580441)

...
"but you don't have a right to tell those of us who are not on your team to stop because you find it disrespectful or immature." Was me giving you a fact which can also be taken as telling you.
...

Originally Posted by gblake (Post 1580463)

Sure he does. It takes a village.

No one is supposed to be throwing anything at other people (bystanders) in the dome. Where-o-where did you ever get the notion into your head that anything else was correct?

If you want to plant your flag of rebellion/independence, you should pick a more important subject - Preferably one in which civility, local regulations, and laws are on your side; or one in which a great injustice needs to be corrected - This subject is neither.

Blake

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580444)

I have, every year Ive gone to worlds... extensively, Ive also been hit, have hit some else and made apologies and stopped when asked, even though they where more then angry at me. not because of authority but rather a moral code I've instilled in myself when it would have been much easier to reply in an unfit manner.


If your company cant see past the hormones of KIDS and see the value that these kids have learned and done, then there is a bigger problem then what you're complaining (for lack of a better word) about

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580468)

Who ever said throwing them at people? as far as I'm aware, it is to get the airplane to go the furthest, it just turns out that a lot of people suck at making airplanes. By what authority were you given to say that your stance on a matter is correct? were do you get off calling me or anyone else that partakes in this action rebellious. I personally have not seen nor heard FIRST request/ prohibit people to stop. so technically the rules would are on my side, as you are trying to enforce a none existent rule onto others because you find the act distasteful,

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580468)

... I ... wont force my opinions down your throat. ...

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580444)

If your company cant see past the hormones of KIDS and see the value that these kids have learned and done, then there is a bigger problem then what you're complaining (for lack of a better word) about

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1580501)

You'll pardon me for saying this, but when you throw from any level of the dome, there are people below you, am I not correct? I do realize that you're not throwing AT those people, but you are most certainly throwing TOWARDS those people, and the fact that they are below you makes your paper airplane much more dangerous. And the fact that you're throwing towards people and cannot aim once you've released your projectile means that you may as well be throwing at them.

Additionally, you might not have heard it, but Frank (Director of FRC) has posted on the FRC blog in the past to not do it, AND some of my team has told me that there was an announcement yesterday. Whether you pay attention to those announcements or not, it has been announced, at very high levels of FRC. The rules of FRC might not have been updated, but they are rather not on your side here.

I believe that uncivil behavior is, in fact, a card-grade penalty (after a talk with appropriate officials, that is). Should, of course, throwing paper airplanes be regarded as uncivil behavior (depending on timing, it's a minimum of disrespectful), and should, of course, the throwers be identified, then that's what they can expect.

Originally Posted by FRC's Frank

Paper airplanes – I was on the fence about listing this one, because it could be considered minor, but decided to. We saw a significant increase in the number of paper airplanes being thrown during closing. They are beautiful in flight, but once they touch the ground, they turn to trash – an eyesore that someone needs to pick up. I recognize that throwing paper airplanes is fun, and that folks in the stands don’t have much to do while waiting for ceremonies to start, but as a community I think we are not leaving a positive impression with this. - See more at:

Originally Posted by marshall (Post 1580504)

So yeah, it's minor but it's still a problem... and if I've learned anything in my time in FRC it's that ChiefDelphi is the best place to discuss minor problems with highly opinionated people. ;)

Originally Posted by hrench (Post 1576182)

Actually, I'm a mentor that doesn't think this is that big of deal.

Yes, airplanes shouldn't be thrown when important things are happening and they shouldn't have anything but paper in them. But certainly they're not more dangerous than great big beach balls that routinely hit people in the head.

Paper airplanes are
1. an engineering competition
2. a social activity
3. a science demonstration.

I could go on. They're fun.

Yes, we could be staring into our cell phones instead. I prefer this.

Also, yes, OK, it's a big mess. Especially if people bring paper just for this, but in my experience it's been mostly paper from scouting reports, safety 'posters' and re-used paper and I'm mostly unfolding someone else's airplanes and making better ones. First isn't noted for being terribly green. And if you're re-folding planes, then you're 'reusing' right? The stadium-world is used to cleaning up huge messes after every event.

I'm not sure about this, but I suspect the people that have to clean these up are employees of the stadium, paid by the hour. They'll have to sweep the floor anyway, so sweeping airplanes isn't that much of a big deal. This actually gives them more work, hence more money. I doubt you'll hear them complaining if this is correct. Better than sweeping up beer bottles after a football game.

When I read the title 'being proactive' I thought this string would be about looking up and practicing actual airplane designs that are good, that win contests. Not just the boring barely-works dart planes most of you are throwing.

Yes, I mentor in paper airplane design too.

And if the people in charge want it to stop, and say so, I'll go along, but that wouldn't be my preference.

Originally Posted by Alex2614 (Post 1580624)

Watching Einstein isn't all that much fun when you're being pelted in the back of the head every minute with poorly made paper airplanes.

Originally Posted by XaulZan11 (Post 1580629)

Interesting that they announce to everyone to turn off wireless on their phones, but say nothing about airplanes. I guess if people feel strongly about this, contacting/complaining to FIRST may be a better idea.

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1580696)

Wireless from phones can interfere with the field, if planes were being thrown onto competition fields FIRST would smack it down in a heart beat.

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz (Post 1581624)

Does FIRST really have to tell you to stop doing something that you know is damaging, detracts from the overall experience and litters the floor of the very goal (division finals or Einstein fields) all of you are trying to achieve?

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges (Post 1581595)

I saw planes being thrown during speeches and matches. If people are bored by these than why are they in robotics in the first place? :mad:

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley (Post 1581634)

Hey Al- While I certainly agree with your point and the reasoning behind it, wouldn't FIRST simply stating "Please DO NOT throw any materials from your seats" go a long way in extinguishing this practice?

The few people on this thread who have supported the practice start by saying (paraphrasing) "FIRST doesn't tell us not to do it, and they if it mattered to them, they would say so."


So while morally, I completely agree that no one should have to tell you to not do something damaging/silly - I do think a very simple statement would go a very long way. I agree with many people that when we were told to turn off our WiFi, a simple statement of "Stop throwing stuff" would've fit right in.

-Brando

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8 (Post 1580468)

Last year a high ranking official from the United States Air Force complimented this activity and even when so far out to take the ones on the stage with him to remember FIRST by. I don't know about you but That man obviously saw something you all did not.

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges (Post 1581595)

I saw planes being thrown during speeches and matches. If people are bored by these than why are they in robotics in the first place? :mad:

Originally Posted by XaulZan11 (Post 1581821)

This is probably a topic for another thread, but between the 2+ hour break, speeches, sideline interviews and dance breaks, I find Einstein boring most of the time.

Originally Posted by XaulZan11 (Post 1581821)

This is probably a topic for another thread, but between the 2+ hour break, speeches, sideline interviews and dance breaks, I find Einstein boring most of the time.

Originally Posted by Chi Meson (Post 1578003)

Organize a paper airplane competition.

I recall seeing some fine gliders in 2014. I must admit it was fascinating. Having read the arguments, I will be instructing my team to leave all paper behind as we sit down for Einstein, but as other have said, If FIRST would make it clear that throwing airplanes is not acceptable, it would help a lot.
...
I just didn't think of the paper airplanes as being the worst aspect of that evening.
...

Originally Posted by MooreteP (Post 1581857)

As a volunteer who has worked on the floor of Einstein for the past 5 years....
...this year, there were significantly fewer paper airplanes.

I would like to thank this thread and its "crowdsourcing" ability that CD has shown as a major contributor to ameliorating this activity.

Originally Posted by Chi Meson (Post 1584794)

Wow, that was "fewer"? I think there might have been fewer well constructed planes, but I'll bet there were actually more total pieces of garbage that never made it closer than the 20th row.

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1580201)

As far as it happening every year, I can vouch that that's NOT the case. Seems to have started only after FIRST moved the CMP to St. Louis. It leaves a lot of extra trash for somebody to clean up (and I would hope that the throwers do try to clean some up...)

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1585019)

I want paper airplanes to stay but not like this. There should be one sanctioned time where everyone can get it out of their system. It could look really cool and they can make safety goggles 'Mandatory'. Everyone writes their names and team # on their plane and the plane that reaches the farthest gets the member a prize. It would be a fun time killer. Definitely more fun then yet another speech talking about how inspired we all are and how great FIRST is.

Originally Posted by Ringo5tarr (Post 1585301)

There are worse things plaguing FIRST out there to be frank.

Originally Posted by Ringo5tarr (Post 1585301)

There are worse things plaguing FIRST out there to be frank.

Originally Posted by chapman1 (Post 1585429)

It might be beneficial to create a separate event in the Einstein sector while the Quali rounds are going on, for those kids who are so inclined... with the proviso that they all pitch in to pick up their collective litter each day, in a display of Gracious Professionalism rather than defacto sanctioned littering.

Originally Posted by BrennanB (Post 1580503)

Pretty sure kids are intelligent enough to not have to throw garbage onto the field because they are bored. I mean REALLY? are you seriously suggesting that kids are physically incapable of not mass littering a the dome because of hormones!?!?!?
Just wow.

Originally Posted by FRC's Frank

We’re making it official for the 2017 season. It will be against the rules to throw things from the stands or bleachers at our events. Paper airplanes count as things. As well as being a safety hazard, throwing paper airplanes can be disrespectful, depending on what is happening on the field. We probably should have put this rule in place years ago, but I hope we can now count on you to help keep our events safe and respectful.