Chief Delphi
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 34 >
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   Championship Event (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   Poofs Red Card Question? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147938)

dubiousSwain 30-04-2016 14:54
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Does anyone have a link to the video?

Arhowk 30-04-2016 16:39
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Also, the second yellow card wasn't for the Auton thing, it was because a team member entered the field before the green lights were on

Sperkowsky 30-04-2016 21:28
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
I have a lot to say about this as I was a few feet away from the whole thing. Except a very in depth post tomorrow.

Jared Russell 30-04-2016 21:38
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
The refs made two very tough calls for our alliance, but were trying to do the right thing in the face of imprecise rules and indirect observations of what actually happened on the field. I cannot in good faith fault them for either call when I look at the letter of the rules, even though I think there is a bit of disparity between the way the refs called things on Newton and how they called things in our previous events both in 2016 and previously.

apache8080 30-04-2016 21:43
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Russell (Post 1580863)
The refs made two very tough calls for our alliance, but were trying to do the right thing in the face of imprecise rules and indirect observations of what actually happened on the field. I cannot in good faith fault them for either call when I look at the letter of the rules, even though I think there is a bit of disparity between the way the refs called things on Newton and how they called things in our previous events both in 2016 and previously.
I am still confused as to why the tethering yellow card was called. When I was watching the stream, 1241 was with an FTA when they were tethered to the robot. By the rule isn't that legal. It was an unfortunate incident to an otherwise great event. Despite this 254 and 1241 were a great alliance to watch on Newton.

AWoL 01-05-2016 07:41
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by apache8080 (Post 1580865)
I am still confused as to why the tethering yellow card was called. When I was watching the stream, 1241 was with an FTA when they were tethered to the robot. By the rule isn't that legal. It was an unfortunate incident to an otherwise great event. Despite this 254 and 1241 were a great alliance to watch on Newton.
Did the tethering happen after the field timeout, or started during the field timeout and continued once it ended? That would be grounds for a yellow card.

PatEhrgott 03-05-2016 11:47
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Link is here for anyone interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60k9XvKra0Q

Richard Wallace 03-05-2016 13:17
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatEhrgott (Post 1582436)
Link is here for anyone interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60k9XvKra0Q
I would like to see a video that includes the usual pre-match "thumbs up" to the head referee, usually given by all referees and the FTA. Neither of the yellow card violations can be seen in any of the videos I've found so far*, and I could not see them from Section 125 either.

What I did see was the red alliance outrunning and outgunning us, while we committed several fouls and missed the capture. We were clearly outplayed.

As Jared said, this was a tough situation for the referees. Over the season, Stronghold found out many weaknesses in robot design, in game play strategy, and especially in durability -- both of the robots and of the field. In this match it found out another weakness -- in the rules themselves.

Generally, the remedy for pre-match infractions is to correct the situation before starting the match. In this case it appears the match was lost on cards before it even started.** That can't be what FIRST wanted.
--------------

*Linked earlier in this thread, and on TBA.

**I am going with some earlier posts in this thread stating that the yellow cards were for entering the field early (G2) and tethering without express permission (G10). While some red alliance drive team members did touch controls during auton, it appeared to me they were just picking them up after a blue robot shook the castle wall, causing them to fall. This is allowed for operator console safety per G14. Please correct me if you saw something different.

ATannahill 03-05-2016 18:05
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Wallace (Post 1582525)
I would like to see a video that includes the usual pre-match "thumbs up" to the head referee, usually given by all referees and the FTA. Neither of the yellow card violations can be seen in any of the videos I've found so far*, and I could not see them from Section 125 either.

What I did see was the red alliance outrunning and outgunning us, while we committed several fouls and missed the capture. We were clearly outplayed.

As Jared said, this was a tough situation for the referees. Over the season, Stronghold found out many weaknesses in robot design, in game play strategy, and especially in durability -- both of the robots and of the field. In this match it found out another weakness -- in the rules themselves.

Generally, the remedy for pre-match infractions is to correct the situation before starting the match. In this case it appears the match was lost on cards before it even started.** That can't be what FIRST wanted.
--------------

*Linked earlier in this thread, and on TBA.

**I am going with some earlier posts in this thread stating that the yellow cards were for entering the field early (G2) and tethering without express permission (G10). While some red alliance drive team members did touch controls during auton, it appeared to me they were just picking them up after a blue robot shook the castle wall, causing them to fall. This is allowed for operator console safety per G14. Please correct me if you saw something different.
Listen again to the end of the video in your quote. The second yellow card was was for touching the controls during autonomous. The match was not lost when it started because the second yellow card had not happened.

AdamHeard 03-05-2016 18:26
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1582756)
Listen again to the end of the video in your quote. The second yellow card was was for touching the controls during autonomous. The match was not lost when it started because the second yellow card had not happened.
I don't see how that yellowcard is valid. Doesn't G14 provide a specific exemption for operator console safety?

Richard Wallace 03-05-2016 18:35
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1582756)
Listen again to the end of the video in your quote. The second yellow card was was for touching the controls during autonomous. The match was not lost when it started because the second yellow card had not happened.
Thanks for the correction. I had missed the audio by not waiting long enough, and skipping to the score. Hearing it now I do recall the announcement but had not caught the part about touching controls.

The announcement does not match what I could see in the corner of the video, which as I said earlier appeared to be red alliance team members picking up controls that had been knocked off the shelf when a blue robot shook the castle wall during auton. Having seen this several times (as a referee) during matches earlier in the season, I did not think it was a G14. I guess the referees saw a team member touch controls in a way that was not required to ensure operator console safety? As Jared said, it was a tough situation for the referees.

Sperkowsky 03-05-2016 18:45
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1582782)
I don't see how that yellowcard is valid. Doesn't G14 provide a specific exemption for operator console safety?
Yes it does and the hit definitely was worse looking in person. Nothing fell off the console but it was definitely rattled. Looks to me like they are just checking if everything is OK which is perfectly valid.

Regardless it's pretty stupid to card someone for 2 actions that provide no competitive advantage. Especially after all of the fouls the other alliance committed during that match.

ATannahill 03-05-2016 18:49
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1582782)
I don't see how that yellowcard is valid. Doesn't G14 provide a specific exemption for operator console safety?
I am not going to comment on validity. I simply stated the fact as it was reported by the head ref and then the game announcer.

Michael Corsetto 03-05-2016 18:56
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Wallace (Post 1582792)
As Jared said, it was a tough situation for the referees.
This seems like an easy situation for the referees. Just don't yellow card a team for recovering their operator console after a hard hit from the driver station?

Are adults in this program really looking to penalize teams for things like this, to the level of a red card, and subsequent DQ?

Seems like some discretion in these situations is appropriate?

It doesn't seem like, in these sorts of moments, we're all playing on the same team.

I'm not upset with a call. I'm upset with an attitude.

Semi-relevant thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=127911

-Mike

Kevin Sheridan 03-05-2016 19:04
Re: Poofs Red Card Question?
 
Better view from 1676's full field footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=671pGv2wlmU

The explanation our alliance was given before match 3 was that a referee saw one of the drivers untangling the cords of a controller. While I dont agree with the call that was made, I can see why the ref thought there was a G14 violation.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00.
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 34 >
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi