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-   -   2016 Einstein (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147940)

JohnFogarty 01-05-2016 12:50

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace (Post 1581041)
Looks like the courtyard ref entered a blue penalty at 1:12 in that video. The ref had been watching 1405 for while. It appears to me that 1405 did not back away 6 ft and then wait 3 seconds before attempting to pin again. So the foul was probably G22 pinning.

That's the strangest pinning call I've ever seen. The drivetrain of the "pinning" robot was perpendicular to the pinned robot for the majority of the count. That was not pinning. Pinning needs to be defined better so that calls like that don't happen. 120 could have turned and drove out of the corner whenever they wanted to find a different shooting position.

jtrv 01-05-2016 15:03

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty (Post 1581054)
That's the strangest pinning call I've ever seen. The drivetrain of the "pinning" robot was perpendicular to the pinned robot for the majority of the count. That was not pinning. Pinning needs to be defined better so that calls like that don't happen. 120 could have turned and drove out of the corner whenever they wanted to find a different shooting position.

From my experience, pinning this year has been called for the simplest of things. Defense is incredibly potent this year, but with so many refs seemingly trigger-happy to call pinning fouls (and also the possibility of undeserved red cards due to flips), we didn't get to see very much of it.

jjkoletar 01-05-2016 15:30

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LeelandS (Post 1581052)
I was actually wondering about that. Naturally I don't want to start a thing, and I wasn't close enough to get a really good look, but it looked to me like our robot backed up the requisite amount. I find this evidenced by the fact that the ref seemed to halt her count and keep her hand up instead of finishing her count.

It looks to me that when we returned, 120 was clearly able to move, as they moved forward and then preceeded to turn and move out of the courtyard. Without interference from our robot, as we went to move to another robot.

I've never been trained as a referee, is there some kind of "intent to pin" that referees are supposed to look for? It looks even though we did return to pin 120, we never completed her process as they were clearly able to begin moving. Any thoughts from someone with more referee knowledge than I?

I'm extremely happy with this season, and our run at world's. I'm more so asking because if our driver was not entirely at fault, I don't want him to think he is. And I want to be able to tell him what to do better next year.

Text of the rule:
Quote:

Originally Posted by G22
ROBOTS may not pin an opponent’s ROBOT for more than five (5) seconds. A ROBOT will be considered pinned until the ROBOTS have separated by at least six (6) feet. The pinning ROBOT(s) must then wait for at least three (3) seconds before attempting to pin the same ROBOT again. Pinning is transitory through other objects. If the pinned ROBOT chases the pinning ROBOT upon retreat, the pinning ROBOT will not be penalized, and the pin will be considered complete.

  • Blue bot drives in front of red bot. Though it's perpendicular, they're against a wall, so the referee starts her pin count. She counts off 4 seconds.
  • As she's about to give her fifth "chop", the blue bot gets six feet of separation for a brief period. This is why you see her halt her count.
  • At this point, now that you're six feet away, the red bot is no longer considered pinned. The thing is, you must wait three seconds before pinning that same robot again. Since you only had six feet of separation for about a second, and then go and kind of reenter the six feet around the robot you were pinning, she considers the robot to be pinned again, meaning you have now tried to pin that same robot again with 3 seconds of the pin being over, meaning you get a foul.

I know it's not a very strong call and that it decided literally the winners of FIRST Stronghold, but the thing is, if referees second-guess themselves because it's a really close match, then their calls could get less fair because they're worried that it could be a deciding factor. The only advice I can give is to, when you're ending a pin, literally go to the other side of the courtyard, or start T-Boning a second robot immediately after you backed away.

pmcoburn 01-05-2016 19:11

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
My thought for future tie-breakers is that ties should be replayed ONLY during elimination rounds ONLY in the event that a robot could be eliminated as a result.

Scenario #1: Alliance R plays Alliance B in 1st game of an elimination round. Tie is resolved by tiebreakers.

Scenario #2: Alliance R wins 1st match of elimination round, 2nd game results in tie. Since this is a possible elimination game, it is replayed.

Scenario #3: Alliances split 1st and 2nd games, 3rd results in a tie. Replay.

This would NOT apply to qualifications, since no robots are eliminated during quals.

mikeh2338 02-05-2016 16:41

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1581006)
1676's full-field footage of the 2016 Einstein Finals can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...FuMKI-pN-1gaSn. The rest of our Newton and Einstein footage has been a bit delayed due to hotel wifi, but should be up by tonight. Enjoy!

The Einstein Semifinals and World Championship Chairman's Presentation footage have now been added to the playlist.

Thank you for posting the match videos. Your seats were much better than mine and it is great to go back for another look at the amazing matches played on Einstein in 2016. Are any match videos available from the official FIRST stream? While the full field/overhead vids are a blessing, seeing the real-time score would really add to the drama of the matches.

Mike Harrison
Team 2338 [Mentor]

Road Rash 03-05-2016 07:40

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeh2338 (Post 1581913)
Are any match videos available from the official FIRST stream? While the full field/overhead vids are a blessing, seeing the real-time score would really add to the drama of the matches.

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjDSCT96K2w

Hallry 03-05-2016 09:05

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
All of 1676's full-field footage of Einstein is now uploaded and can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...FuMKI-pN-1gaSn. We have also posted our videos of the Opening Ceremonies and Closing Awards Ceremony in that playlist as well. Enjoy!

You can also find all of our Newton Subdivision footage here https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...9R14DZnbqgem-I.

TheBoulderite 03-05-2016 12:39

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
If Einsteins this year proved anything, it's that Israeli teams are getting really good. Last year, 3339 was the first Israeli team to make it to Einsteins, and were eliminated in the quarters. This year, both 3339 and 1690 made it, with 3211 appearing in the division finals. It's really cool to see, sort of like when Canadian teams started getting good enough to make Einsteins. I'm going to make the bold prediction now that a team from Israel will win it all sometime in the next five years.

XaulZan11 03-05-2016 13:04

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
I haven't seen this brought up, but does anyone know why Semifinal match 1.2 (the match where 330 tipped twice) was "under review"? Perhaps this is too much of a conspiracy theory, but is there a chance they were going to issue a red card (which would have been very much in line based on how tipping was getting called) but decided not to once they saw 330's alliance win?

Kevin Leonard 03-05-2016 13:05

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBoulderite (Post 1582483)
If Einsteins this year proved anything, it's that Israeli teams are getting really good. Last year, 3339 was the first Israeli team to make it to Einsteins, and were eliminated in the quarters. This year, both 3339 and 1690 made it, with 3211 appearing in the division finals. It's really cool to see, sort of like when Canadian teams started getting good enough to make Einsteins. I'm going to make the bold prediction now that a team from Israel will win it all sometime in the next five years.

Having worked with 3339, and having seen 1690 play, I don't even think that's a bold prediction. Israel is really good, guys, and just wait until they realize how effective districts are in a few years.

jspatz1 03-05-2016 13:11

Re: 2016 Einstein
 
Is there video available of the full Einstein playoff including the breaks and commentary?


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