Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I played the video today, in all my classes. I also played SF1:2 and the Beach Bots righting themselves twice. Both were hits, kids were excited about robotics who didn't do it all year.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Just because everybody else is swearing, doesn't make it okay for you to swear.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

You'll have to enlighten me I guess. Can't really find any good information on what meaningful impact he's had to promote STEM besides talking about how dope it is. If the point is to get the public interested in STEM then why is his only appearance about this at the FIRST Championship where he's preaching to people already involved? Shouldn't he promote it at every other event he hosts or speaks?

Should we invite Kanye West next year, or maybe Miley Cyrus? They have quite a few Twitter followers, are these the kind of people we want to aspire to be?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Just because everyone says it's bad to to swear, doesn't mean it is

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Sigh. Let me Google that for you.

http://iamangelfoundation.org

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=will.i.am+stem

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Just because everyone says it's okay to swear, doesn't mean it is. :p

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Darn it! Foiled again!

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

This is inappropriate... I know... but i have to say it, my teenage mind won't let me not do it...... REKT

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Google and Youtube are wonderful inventions.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Yes! They are both very creative and talented people and if they are genuinely passionate about the program, what is the reason not to?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Try googling the i.am.angel foundation. Or read his Wikipedia entry. Or see some of the interviews he's given about FIRST. How hard did you search?

Or, you could go this route.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

HAHA, that just made my day :P ;D

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

For the most part, I do agree with you there. I try not to say anything inappropriate around students since I try to respect how their parents are raising their kids.

But with that said, I turned out okay so I guess when something like this happens it just doesn't bother me that much (although I would say I was extremely surprised when it happened).

Then again, I also grew up listening to heavy metal, which I've also been told will turn me into a degenerate. I guess I don't have a lot of faith in what a lot of people say is going to make you turn out bad. I still love me some metal, BTW.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

For what its worth, I'd heard just as bad in 4th grade, but I went to public school in a big city, so...:rolleyes:

I want to try and flip this conversation a bit:

There have been at least a few posts saying or suggesting that other speakers at champs/other competitions are "boring" or "say the same thing every year" or "no one pays attention anymore." This isn't the impression I'd like to leave if I was a sponsor giving a speech. People respect genuine passion. And I know people get passionate about FIRST; I see it every freaking year! And the sponsors really care too! But when it comes time to actually talk about it and get excited on stage, it seems people dial it back. WHY????? You don't have to cuss, but if your company is investing millions of dollars in a program, act out that passion for us!

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I'm going to agree and disagree here.

I do think Will's comments were sincere if colorful. There are only so many ways to express what he did with the energy he did, so he went with the most common (if not necessarily appropriate) one. In what is an increasingly-scripted Einstein, this was a genuine shock--which was probably part of the rousing applause from even Dean and Dave. It's certainly not something FIRST should stick on the highlight reel, and I hope Dean was clever enough to find a swear jar afterward, but it's not the end of the world.

That said, I remember 2007 when Dean came to South Carolina for a benefit dinner and met beforehand with local FRC teams. He gave a talk (perhaps the best talk I've ever seen from him) about what's become the Slingshot and the stirling engine projects, the latter of which can be powered by burning cow patties. So guess what was on that slide? An oh-so-slightly-greeked version of one word Will said on Saturday night. That, too, was not the end of the world.

Use it as a teachable moment, smile at one of those moments that will become part of FIRST's oral history (Mandy Moore, how 'ya doing?), and get back to building robots if it bothers you so. :)

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

His foundation claims 15 teams of funding. I recall a team picture that had the logo on the banner, but it's not in TIMS--so call it at least anecdotal confirmation.

Coca-Cola had already been around FIRST from the Atlanta days, but I doubt the Ekocycle printer collaboration happens without Will's involvement (remember, he was in the TV spots). Whatever you thought of the printers themselves--hey, we're giving out 3D printers where there weren't any before.

Oh, and dare we bring up the arm-twist of Intel (which he's also affiliated with) to bankroll the I Am FIRST telecast on one hour of prime time on ABC?

I'm not saying Will is perfect, or even the best thing to happen to FIRST (you'll have a hard time knocking Woodie off)--but he isn't just preaching to the choir.

(And if Kanye takes the invite, I'd welcome him with open arms...but let's invite him to speak at the mentor breakfast to be safe.)

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I really appreciated Will.i.am's comment. I think his use of profanity did a beautiful job of cutting straight through all of the buzzwords and marketing speak that we (and I'm guilty of this too) often end up using to describe the benefits of FIRST. Ultimately, his words concisely expressed the thing that I and many others really love about FIRST: how motherf***ing dope it is.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

We already got Miley on board :rolleyes: : https://youtu.be/vYuOKb3gO7E?t=28s

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I am sort of baffled by this. Both the total lack of research and ignorance towards changing culture.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Did you listen at all to what Dean said that Will.I.Am has done for FIRST? It certainly sounds like you haven't. :(

This isn't just a random entertainer coming to our event.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I cannot agree with mrnoble's posts on this enough.

One of the big things lately has been increasing diversity in STEM fields-- this means appealing to and accepting people who do not fit the stereotypical mold of an engineer. I'm pretty standard engineer stock-- guess what, I'm a young, white man. The traditional values associated with engineering are similar to the ones I was raised with and (for the most part) live by. Part of that is language choice (yup, in third grade my dad grounded me for saying d--- while playing a football video game with him). In other areas, cultures, et cetera, that's hardly worth raising an eyebrow at. If we say we want diversity, but only if you'll talk and act like a stereotypical "respectable" old white man, I think we're missing the point.

Kudos to will.i.am for saying it how he (and I) feel it. Expletives serve a valuable purpose in communication, and expressing exactly how awesome something is is one of those purposes.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

whaaaaat, when did this happen?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Back in 2011 there was a very short lived TV program for FIRST.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Looks like I'm late, but in the grand tradition of Chief Delphi, I'll butt in and beat the dead horse anyway!

I guess you can think it's wrong or damaging, but I believe there are more pressing issues in FIRST, including the state we both live in!

-Team attrition in Virginia
-Lack of support for the truly desperate inner-city teams in Richmond
-Volunteer burnout and lack of depth
-Alumni burnout
-Mentor burnout
-Lack of decent programs even in populous and wealthy suburban areas
-Lack of cooperation between various parties in Virginia to make FIRST better
-The politics that contribute to most of, if not all of the above
-Adults that act like children, no cursing required!

So we disagree! Maybe I'm wrong! Maybe FIRST as a whole and the FIRST in Virginia product were crown jewels of this insular utopia until Dean let "William" dare to open his mouth and express emotion towards a program that, if it is not obvious, he is very passionate about.

When a bunch of pasty people parade around in some cheap ren-faire garb at these awesome robotics competitions, how the hell is that attracting kids to the program who need it? That is embarrassing. Some guy cursing on a hot mic at Champs isn't a black eye on FIRST, it's the old white people that nudge the kids that need this program out of the way by trying to wall off our world from those kids.

Wil Payne, Mech Tech Dragons, FRC Team 422
4 years a student, 4 years a coach
My opinions may not reflect that of everyone on my team but I sure as sunshine hope it does.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

OP: "What are your thoughts on this issue?"
MJ: "These are my opinions."
CD: "YOUR OPINIONS ARE WRONG AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED."*

My expansion on this opinion is that people are so quick to judge and give knee-jerk reactions that it creates a very hostile, and scary, environment. So, yes, I completely understand why Mr.Jeff patrolled the CD seas for a dozen years before making a post, and I understand why he probably regrets it now. Not because he was wrong, or wrong in doing so, but because people don't know how to be civil - or at least are unwilling to do so.

Yes, I realize that compared to some Internet forums, chiefdelphi is relatively benign. But that's like saying burglary is better than murder. THEY'RE BOTH CRIMINAL ACTS.**

My personal thoughts? I'm conflicted. I grew up with the voices of George Carlin, Robin Williams, Sam Kinison, Tupac Shakur, Heraclitus shaping my worldview of what language, and truth, is. Yes, I appreciate Mr. am for coming out from behind his public persona*** and Being Real. And yes, I am very glad my 7 and 4 year old sons were not watching the webcast at that time, as they were earlier.

I understand that some may consider my children to be "sheltered" since they haven't heard this language before (to my knowledge) but as a parent, I like to think I can make the decision as to when and how my children can become "un-sheltered" and I don't expect a robotics tournament to be the impetus for that conversation with my kids.

*this is meant to portray a 'conversation' that has three speakers, the OP, MJ, and CD. The words following the colons, in quotation marks, are meant to be what each speaker says, in turn.
**I am not comparing an Internet bulletin board site to criminal acts. I am using an analogy.
***Mr. am has a very carefully crafted public image. Yes, his lyrics can be misogynistic, crude, and vulgar. But look at the man away from the music. Always impeccably dressed. No visible tattoos or piercings (earrings notwithstanding). Very thoughtful in his interviews, speeches, television appearances (like The Voice UK). Just about as clean-cut and well-spoken as you'll find this side of Pat Boone.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

If you drop F-bombs when you are interviewing with me for an engineering position (entry level, senior - doesn't matter) I am not going to hire you*. My reaction to your profanity will not be "this person is very passionate, and their presence will increase diversity within my organization". My reaction will be "you don't understand even the basics of etiquette and if I put you in front of a customer you will make our company look bad and damage a reputation that has taken decades to establish". True story. Curse like a sailor if you like in your private life, but not if you are giving a public speech to thousands of people from all age groups and backgrounds.

*And before anyone chimes in with "well then I wouldn't want to work for your company", my preemptive response is "oh yes you do".

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I would just like to point out that Will. I. Am even puts robots in his music videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUFsQ5lTo6g
He really likes robotics.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Okay, this post is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not you are supportive of his expression or profanity use in general, I don't think anyone could possibly argue that an entertainer's appearance at a public event is at all the same social situation as a job interview. Behavior in job interviews, or even at one's professional workplace in general, is very different than behavior in other contexts. I hope you don't believe people behave like they do in job interviews every day of their lives...

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

If Fergie showed up to an interview dressed like that I wouldn't hire her. :rolleyes:

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I think if you show up to an engineering interview with grease-covered hands, a sweaty robotics team shirt and ripped khaki shorts and old trainers, you probably wouldn't get hired there either.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Post-emptively, would working for your company mean leaving teaching to become an engineer?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Yeah, no. If you say something controversial on the internet, you're going to get called out for it and told why you're wrong. Are underdog viewpoints now shielded by some sort of political correctness? Comparing a simple discussion of conflicting views with something as extreme as a 'criminal act' is outrageous. At no point was Mr. J told to kill himself or to leave the forum, and I would be highly surprised if he was sent harassing or nasty PMs. All because your opinion isn't the majority doesn't mean you're immune to criticism.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Nah. This thread is purely for discussions, so I'm not planning on walking away with lower opinions of people just because they put out a good argument.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

To some extent, there's a script. It's meant to ensure joint messages are being shared and to prevent unexpected CD 10 page threads about a speech. At productions of this level, things tend to get micromanaged just out of habit.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I'd argue THIS response is far less civil than other things being said to MJ. Is it only civil to agree with him? There have been a couple I rolled my eyes at (I understand why he hasn't posted or whatever that was as an example). But, they've generally been well articulated counterpoints. To call that uncivil is, well, very uncivilized. You're essentially saying "CD: YOUR OPINIONS ARE WRONG AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED." We either agree with his rage or we're wrong and should be ashamed for offering a counterpoint. If we consider the hypocritical nature of this claim, it becomes even less civil.

People aren't going to agree on this topic and that's ok. It hit the edge of what we feel comfortable with in society. Some will be on one side and others on the living dangerously side. It's important both sides keep a level head and be careful to avoid shaming the other for having an opinion.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

It is possible to provide a counterpoint without attacking the person.

Perhaps in a non-election year we can remember how to do that.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

"My expansion on this opinion is that people are so quick to judge and give knee-jerk reactions that it creates a very hostile, and scary, environment."

In your post you mention CD posters being quick to judge...yet you find other people judging a great guy based on one spoken sentence (and probably a lot of other prejudice) to be perfectly fine?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

So being in the vocal majority makes you so "right" in your views, that an (allegedly) minority (allegedly) "controversial" opinion is worthy of being derided into the shadows as positively "wrong"?

Should we be erecting a safe space around this thread? Someone with more experience in such matters, tell me if that's a good idea. Only authorized opinions endorsed by the collective are permitted to be heard. All others must be forced to remain outside the safe zone. :rolleyes:

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Sorry, I wasn't aware that the vernacular of my sentence was going to be nit-picked instead of the general message I was attempting to communicate. :rolleyes:

I didn't realize I would have to do this, but here it goes. Like most people who hold opinions, I believe my opinion is correct (a synonym of "right"). Like most people who encounter those who have differing opinions than theirs, I believe that their differing opinion is incorrect. By "controversial", I meant against the apparent hive-mind that CD has. When Mr. J made his post, there were multiple replies stating that will.i.am's comment is being over-reacted to. I'm confident if you sum up the amount of those replies, they're more numerous than the amount of Mr. J-style replies. Hence, "controversial" in context of this thread. Lastly, "wrong" is also relative. Considering the fact that there is no end-all-be-all for opinions, "wrong" was used to illustrate that it is a differing opinion.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

"Calling someone out" and telling someone they are "wrong" seem like pretty black and white actions to me. :) Rather confrontational tone (and I know alllllll about those). "Questioning their opinion" and "explaining why you disagree with it" seem much more in line with what you just outlined. Say what ye mean.

And thank you for confirming the existence of the "hive-mind" in these here parts. Many of the busy little bees are seemingly angry at the interlopers and are assiduously working to push these pests out of the idyllic society they have constructed. Why not have them in for tea and cakes first before showing them the door?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Here is the thing though.... Will.I.AM is not applying for a job, working for FIRST, although that would be pretty cool... official original FIRST songs anyone?. He is speaking passionately, in almost a personal level to the audience of the "sport" that he finds most amazing.

And in other regards... when your going to an interview for any decent job like a engineer of some sort, you most likely will wear a suit and tie, or something of that caliber.... but you won't wear that everyday when you are working (in most jobs)... its the same thing with using language such as this, in a appropriate context such as this

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Kinda off topic, but his colab song with The Script, Hall of Fame could be argued to have subtle references

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I would argue that unless he had stormed the stage and taken the microphone out of someone else's hands, he was addressing the crowd as a de-facto representative of FIRST. That was the point I was making when I referenced F-bombs in a job interview. Once you become associated with an organization (FIRST, an employer, etc.) it's not really possible to dissociate yourself from that organization at will (no pun intended).

I had a related thought: the use of profanity is prohibited on Chief Delphi (and yes, I verified that statement before I made it). So logically then doesn't the "profanity is no big deal; it's just passion" crowd want to see that policy changed on this forum? If not, then why not?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Because this is the internet. How you act on the internet, is entirely different then how you act in person.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Give me a break. Swearing is not culture. Anybody can swear. To attribute everything to culture is to allow far worse atrocities. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Everyone stop insulting each other personally.

I think we're in agreement for the most part here when in reference to what Will said, despite the relatively harsh discourse taking place.

We'd prefer he didn't use the language he used, because it dilutes the message he's trying to deliver, and it sets a bad example for students in the crowd, especially those of a young age.

However I also think most of us understand that the authenticity of Will's passion for FIRST is something we love, and something that spoke to a lot of students.

Will.i.am can be both a good and bad ambassador for FIRST in the same instance.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Please carry on debating the issue of cuss words in general, and the use of them in this specific case. CD is actually plenty tame and I'm glad people can engage each other here without it becoming an all out flame war. I disagree with some of you, and I will act according to my own conscience in this matter. I certainly won't be pursuing anyone I disagree with; Many of you have effective teams with their own cultures, and more power to you if that's the case. I hope you'll all do me the same courtesy as I run my team to the best of my ability, within the context of my school culture. Since (as I've noted before) my principal has been known to cuss in staff meetings and back-to-school presentations, I doubt complaints about my behavior would get very far anyway. Not that I think anyone would ever do that; just being preemptive (following Mr. Ayeckley's model).

If you agree with me about Mr. Am's quote, I want to update you that the t-shirt design is nearly complete and will be printed by the weekend. I will send out the proofs to those who have requested it this evening. There are two versions, one NSFW, and one that is abbreviated. Neither will have any FIRST logos, both will have an image of my team's CAD robot. :D

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Why isn't language you don't like culture, but language you do like is culture? I don't think that's something you can say. The slippery slope argument ("if you say swearing is culture, you can say anything is culture, and that is a lot worse!") is fallacious at best.

Or, more fundamentally, what is wrong with swearing? Fundamentally, the only reason I don't swear in some contexts is to be polite to those who don't like to hear it. I try to avoid swearing around robotics children because they are less likely to have the social wherewithal to avoid swearing in mixed company, and I don't want them imitating my behavior. But I don't honestly see what's actually, morally, wrong with swearing. It's just words.

Unlike other taboos, which disparage marginalized groups and are thus inherently hurtful and perpetuate oppression, curse words just have one (of many) meaning(s) that refer to sexual or excretory acts or functions. Yet, other (non-curse) words we use that have one or more of these meanings are not held to the same standard. I legitimately don't get it. Not getting it doesn't stop me from trying to be nice and not swearing around people who do get it, but I think we need to understand why swearing is so bad in order to condemn this particular case (or any case, really).

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Will.i.am created a version of this track with a few verses re-recorded that specifically mention robots and FIRST. I've heard it played at numerous events.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I'm blown away at how many posts are FOR this. There are better ways to express how awesome FIRST is.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I don't necessarily think the posts are advocating for #TSIMFD to become a rallying cry told to sponsors and potential new members of all ages everywhere. People are generally agreeing with Will.I.Am's passion and clear commitment to the program.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Consider that to be the inclusionary environment we all want FIRST to be, one must be sensitive to all cultures. There are many more than a handful of teams in the various FIRST competitions that are sponsored by religious organizations. Usually these are parochial schools of various sorts. Think of the impact such comments would have on those who read the following from Paul's Letter to the Ephesians and believe it to be the word of God:

What is the message sent to those who take the Bible literally and believe it is a sin to be exposed (or allow innocent people to be exposed) to such language?

Or, for those more aligned with the church of South Park, as you know we will all end up knee deep in meekrob when It Hits the Fan.

My point is that this creates an uncomfortable marketing situation. How do we market the program when people are literally prepared to print t-shirts that show the language and use the FIRST logo to bleep it out and make it legit to air? It potentially leads to a very uncomfortable situation where to preserve their image, FIRST disallows the use of the logo inside a quote delivered by one of their best champions at their premier event, live on video streams to the world.

Did it inspire a bunch of high school aged kids who can probably handle the language? Probably. Does it present an image problem for FIRST among certain populations? Yes. Is that a net positive? That's for you to judge.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

If this was an audience of FRC/FTC students, I would have been totally fine with his remark. But there were JrFLL/FLL kids and families with small children in attendance. This was NOT a Black Eyed Peas concert, you do not expect to hear profanities from the speaker! I love the fact that he supports FIRST, but this was inappropriate!

I was glad that my FLL teams were not there. I know they are aware of all those words and probably use them among themselves, but you teach them that are appropriate places and company to use such language, THIS was not such occurrence!

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Wow, I just saw the "my robot is better than your robot" thing and man did FIRST have support. Those were some of the most well known names on the planet : WILL.I.AM, miley Cyrus, Justin bieber, Justin Timberlake, snoop Dogg, and Jack black to name a few.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

FIRST stiil has support... even more in fact :P

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

From my perspective people are people...
Very exposed people are still people.

It makes little sense to hold FIRST entire as a reflection of a single comment that seems to aggravate some people.
FIRST should be FIRST and Will a supporter.

Will should not feel like he can never be him just because he has a public relationship with FIRST.

Now, fairly, if you know Will sometimes says things you do not like your kids hearing: address that however you choose for yourself. There seems little to gain by ganging up. A discussion about this is healthy but I support individuality as much as formality.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I've contemplated this for a few days now. I don't think the problem is that we haven't heard the words before - in fact I've heard at least some of them in church. Probably FLL'ers have heard them before too.

My concern is not the appropriateness of the language, but the appropriateness of it in that setting. If it was just words, there wouldn't be these huge discussions going on. Let's face it, the words are being discussed because of their shock value. No one expected to hear them onstage at FIRST.

I worked at a company with a VP of Manufacturing who seemed incapable of putting more than 3 words together without including a cuss word. Maybe he "came up thru the ranks" or maybe he thought it gave him cred with the union, I don't know. All I know is that it made me uncomfortable hearing him talk in a business meeting.

I think that's the issue we have here. When we have to mark videos of it NSFW, should we have applied the same to CMP? I wonder if it will have an effect on sponsors or schools, who might not be impressed.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Thank you, thank you for making this my new favorite all-time CD thread. By introducing biblical exegesis as a standard for FIRST, you have not only opened the proverbial can of worms but you have also allowed me to speak on the topic in which I am formally trained (in Seminary).

Last week I took a team that included two Muslims, an Orthodox Jew, and a Seventh Day Adventist to CMP. There are numerous ways in which participating in FRC potentially conflicts with their beliefs and practices, including having events on a Saturday (Sabbath), and serving the team cheeseburgers. They and their families make choices and compromises in order to allow them to be part of the team, and we also make some compromises as a team to accommodate them. Still it's their choice to participate or not, knowing who and what we are.

If we want to quote the Apostle Paul, here's one for you:

"For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.”
1 Corinthians‬ 9:19-22‬‬‬

Much more importantly, though, FIRST IS NOT A CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION. Feel free to run your team as you see fit, but if you want Christian Robotics I strongly suggest you look elsewhere.

That would be me. They're already printing by the way, and my first customer (not really the right word, these are being sold at cost) is a team mother.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

:D

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Agreed that people do that, but it sounds like you are saying that swearing on the internet (i.e. on Chief Delphi) is taboo, but swearing IRL (i.e. on stage at CMP) is not? My experience has been the opposite.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

For the record, I never suggested that FIRST is a Christian Robotics organization nor that it should attempt to be one.

I'm actually not offended by the comment personally. But if we are going to talk about cultures, language, and inclusion, we need to talk about ALL cultures, languages, and inclusion.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Is it OK when one of "your" students says those words in a public setting? What if Dean or Woody said those words?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I don't think the intention of the post was to state that FIRST is a Christian organization.

However, there are people in FIRST who do take Christianity seriously and find that comment offensive. For example I had the gift of being able to mentor a phenomenal FLL team this year that won the Colorado championship and got to get a trip to worlds. After coming out of the awards ceremony a couple members and parents headed to Einstein and arrived just in time to hear will's interview. The parents immediately left with the kids and a really bad idea of what FRC really is. Recruiting this young engineers to my FRC team now involves convincing their parents that this is not "standard FIRST conduct."

I love FIRST because of the way it embraces Gracious Professionalism; should we tolerate having statement that lies far outside of GP said in front of +10,000 people of all cultures and ages?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Depends on the context.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Sure, let's do. Are you allowing females on to your team? If yes, you are offending a significant portion of some cultures. Are you allowing students to work on Saturdays? Again, same issue. Do you happen to believe and teach that science advances humanity, and that we should embrace scientific pursuit? Does this include issues like the age of the earth, or the theory of evolution? How about corporate sponsorships for your team, which might include companies who make weapons or use fracking techniques to get natural gas out of the ground? That offends some folks.

Look, I teach in an urban environment, and the last thing I want to do is put a stumbling block in the way of my students. Cuss words are not a stumbling block here. Maybe they are where your team is. Okay, sorry about that. But FIRST probably wants to reach urban kids, and this was speaking their language. So I'm down with it. Sorry you're not.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Consider what is necessary to reach the population you are alluding to. It's not an easy one to reach. And dropping an f-bomb on your biggest stage is vinegar, not honey.

You'll note from my location tag above that I live in Texas. This is the state where government has mandated that students in pubic schools must be taught both evolution and intelligent design. And then they are tested on both on a state standardized test that they must pass to graduate high school. You appear to feel you have a difficult situation with your team in the environment you teach in. Consider Texas, a state where there are significant poverty and drug problems among a population that has one of the highest number of places of worship per capita in the world.

They are. On my old team in the northeastern US, I would curse all the time as a mentor and no one really cared. It took all of one occurrence of me saying "hell" for me to be pulled aside and admonished by my teacher counterparts here in Texas. It was unacceptable and inappropriate. With the underserved, poor, and mostly minority population of the school it was essential for the teachers and mentors to be role models from the professional world. To do otherwise was a disservice to the students.

QED.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I have two views on this, which are contradictory to one another.

First, I don't think I would have used Will's words if I was in that situation. I think if I had young children, I would not have wanted them to hear those words. Will's passion spilled over and he cursed because that phrase was the best one he could think of to capture his emotions at the time. Whenever I hear children curse, it is just for the sake of cursing. Until people have the maturity to know the difference, I don't see a need to use profanity.

The other view I have is that while I would not have used Will's words, I don't think I have a right to tell him how to speak. Maybe I do, but why should he listen? He's an adult who understands actions have consequences. He seems to have done a decent job with his life up to this point without me handling his PR.

Finally, for the people talking about "kids in the audience", I see two sides. If you are the parent/guardian of a child who heard this, it's an unfortunate situation. Sorry for the uncomfortable conversation you may need to have with that child. If you are not a parent/guardian, please stop. You are not defending a group who cannot defend themselves, you are just picking a fight.

This conversation is such a train wreck.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Thanks for a thorough response. I agree that it is enormously difficult to reach the particular group you are concerned about with FIRST, really with many things. Like you, I've got ties to places and groups that are very divergent. My brother is an evangelical pastor in the Dallas area, and I worked as a Baptist minister for almost a decade before becoming a teacher. So I get it. Any large organization is going to struggle a lot when dealing with very different community standards.

Not at all, I feel very supported.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

By will swearing in real life you could see that his expressions and other cues, and easily tell that he meant no offense.... you can't do that on the internet

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

While I appreciated the passion which he intended to convey, I found the words offensive and totally inappropriate.

It is a reflection of the culture which exists and which FIRST is trying to influence. There was nothing gracious nor professional about the comment.

Hopefully, he was confronted about the disrespectful language and will learn and mature from the experience.

I doubt that we'll hear it, but I think that a formal apology would be appropriate.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

No, the rule is on CD because this is the internet. You act with reckless abandon in front of a computer screen, whereas, people have reserve in real life.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

It's true. Penny Arcade coined a term for it that is definitely not safe for this thread but those interested can use Google to look up "Penny Arcade Greater Internet Theory".

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Just so everyone knows, Will.i.am has apologized today in a tweet.

https://twitter.com/iamwill/status/727794531219951617

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I honestly wish he hadn't, but he does handle it gracefully. :D

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Thanks for sharing. The very gracious, professional and courageous thing to do. Personally, very much appreciated. Well done, Will.i.am!

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Nobody's going to be scarred for life having heard Sir Will.i.am Blackeye of Pease's coarse language during the robojoust. He shouldn't have said it, the language was inappropriate for the venue, the passion was genuine, and it probably won't happen again.

This is known as a "mistake," and we all make them. Usually quite a few of them a day, well more than we'd like to admit in public.

This particular mistake can be used as a teaching tool--I often tell my students that I don't care whether or not they swear, but I care whether or not they have the ability to turn it off when they need to [One of the larger employers hereabouts will fire you for cursing on the first offense, no matter how long you've worked there. And they're not even a customer service-heavy company]. Because it is my role as a teacher to help them learn the lessons that they need to learn in life, it is therefore inappropriate to swear _in my presence_ and will be treated as a violation of the rules. Not because I personally care--I really, really don't***--but because the skill (both in terms of knowing when not to swear, and being able to turn on the swear filter between brain and mouth) is a good one to learn.

When Sir Will.i.am exhibited a poor mastery level of this particular skill it became a teaching moment as well as an expression of passion, rather than just an expression of passion. It shouldn't have happened and steps should be taken to keep it from happening again, but when it comes to the seething reactions I've seen here and elsewhere, I'll just say the same thing I tell my team members and/or students when something unfortunate happens:

We're all going to die. But probably not today, and probably not from this. There are bigger things to worry about.



***[Keep in mind that the above is coming from a person who learned the "c" word from his mother at a very young age, dropped an "f" bomb at his kindergarten teacher during the first week of school, uses what some people consider swear words ("hell" and "d**m" and sometimes "pissed off") in his classroom without a second thought and has done so for many years because he doesn't consider them swear words, and on some very late nights due to minor injury or incredible frustration has sworn in front of his team--usually at a computer or robot, never at or about a person.]

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

That was exactly my point. The posts you're suggesting are attacks are merely counterpoints. It's shameful to suggest they aren't being civil because they offer a counterpoint.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Peace is a thing we appreciate, or at least we should. Some will take WILL.I.AM's comments for what they were to him [A Passionate Response] And others will take them for what they seem to others [An offscript remark filled with not-so-clean language]. Nonetheless, nothing we do here is going to change anyone's mind. To the build room!

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Peace my friends,

Thanks to everyone for their sacrifices in making this a better world.

Mr. Jeff, "Out"

My comments do not reflect the opinion of my team

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I plan on transplanting my consciousness into a bending unit.
So speak for yourselves.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

The phrase under scrutiny is not swearing. It is not cursing. It is definitely vulgar, and could legitimately be considered obscene, but in the vernacular of linguistics it is emphatic rather than invective. The "f-bomb" label is not applicable to every use of the "f-word", and I do not believe it applies here.

The use of those words in their emphatic sense is certainly a cultural thing.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

In general, I'd rather allow all cultures to express themselves than quiet some cultures in order to avoid offending other cultures.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Language is a tricky thing, my friends.

will.i.am is an artist. His job is to incite emotion through his words. He has made an effective career and millions of dollars knowing exactly what the power of the spoken word can do. When he spoke those words at championship, he knew exactly what he was doing...he was trying to incite emotion. He was successful. It was a moment for everyone there, and a good number of people got quite the chuckle out of it given the context of the situation. Of course, some people didn't appreciate it as well.

I don't have a problem with will.i.am saying what he did, in that moment, for the purposes he intended them to have.

Here is where my problem lies...the resonation.

I did not attend championships this year. I did not watch a single second of the webcast. I looked at scores on TBA here and there, but that was it. When all was said and done, I did not see a single quote in my Facebook feed about anything that Woodie said. I did not even know who the WFA winner was, I had to look it up! I saw exactly one post with a link about Dean's homework, that was it. I saw zero quotes from any of the speakers, to which I am sure there had to be someone who said something that meant something to somebody.

I did see will.i.am's comment...a lot. I saw videos, I saw hashtags, I saw memes, and today I am even seeing t-shirts of it.

My question to you is this. If you were trying to sell FIRST to potential sponsors or future teams, would you want to use what has apparently become FIRST's newest catch phrase to woo them to the program?

Ladies and Gentleman, this phrase is the indicator of what the lasting impression of the 25th anniversary championship of FIRST was. Why? Because we live in a world where social media is king, and a message of that magnitude carries like wildfire.

My point is, let the moment be the moment. Let all of those people who were in attendance take it for what it was, an expression meant to elicit emotion. Going forward, however, think hard about the message that YOU want to carry to future generations, sponsors, and media.

Instead of a catch phrase laced with a little profanity, maybe we should be highlighting the success stories of thousands upon thousands of products of FIRST on our t-shirts.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I think I have an idea why this might be the case. When I first heard Dean and Woodie speak, as a freshman in high school, I was really impressed with what they had to say. I felt empowered, I felt that what I was doing through FIRST could make a difference in my life and the lives others, and I still hold this sentiment to be true today. However, after a few years, it seems like when they speak, they don't say anything that they haven't said before.

Nobody quotes the newest speech by Dean or Woodie because we heard the same words the last time they spoke. This isn't supposed to be a dig at them, it is just a consequence of them speaking at FIRST events for 25+ years. I think the reason that Will.I.Am's words resonate so loudly with the community is that they offer a fresh take from a different perspective, but Will.I.Am and Dean/Woodie are talking about the same thing, a program that they are obviously very passionate about.

Andy, you're right, and I haven't heard any recent Woodie or Dean quotes either. This is where I think we can focus our efforts as a community. Woodie and Dean will continue to make great speeches, and that is great. If it's the first or second time you've heard them speak, then you'll be hearing something new. But if we want to keep the stories we tell fresh, new, and exciting (something somebody will quote on Facebook, for example), then we need to make a concerted effort to find new perspectives on FIRST from all members of our community. We need to hear personal stories of inspiration, triumph, and even sometimes failure. And we need to hear it from everyone; Dean, Woodie, Frank, students, mentors, parents, volunteers, spectators, and everyone who has been involved in or exposed to FIRST.

Some of the best stories I've heard about FIRST are ones where a parent was moved to tears when she saw her typically-introverted son dancing with all the mascots at competition, being outgoing and more expressive than she had ever seen, or when a student who had no academic drive decides that a STEM career might be for them (And there are many more). We all have heard great stories about how FIRST has changed lives, and we all have our own to share.

If we want to continue to spread the message of FIRST, then we need to continue to seek out and highlight the countless wonderful stories and moments that FIRST makes happen, and Will.I.Am's visceral, candid, and passionate comment on Einstein is just one of these fantastic, inspiring moments.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=swearing
Swearing - the use of offensive language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profanity
Types of Swearing:
Abusive swearing
Cathartic swearing
Dysphemistic swearing
Emphatic swearing
Idiomatic swearing

Many people clearly find his language offensive. I doubt most parents or teachers would agree 'The "f-bomb" label is not applicable to every use of the "f-word".'

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I think the argument that was made is that applying this label in all situations is incorrect, not that it is common for people to use critical thinking skills to judge whether or not it is an "f-bomb" versus just a use of the "f-word".

As an example of using this critical thinking, in my AP Language class in high school I was asked to read and analyze George S. Patton's speech to the Third Army. If you haven't read it, it include many words that would be considered obscene in a majority of contexts. If you take it for what it is though, which is a speech to soldiers on the day before D-Day, the swearing becomes less of an affront and more of a tool for emphasis. It's hard to communicate the same passion through a toned-down phrase when you consider the original version of "We're going to murder those lousy Hun *censored* by the bushel-*censored*-basket." (that sentence actually takes the cake for the most colorful sentence I've ever included in an academic paper)

Likewise it becomes difficult for someone in the position of will-i-am to make a statement that carries the same weight if he toned it down to, "This stuff is dope" or, "I find this very interesting". His passion for what the teams are doing carries over into the phrasing that he chose, and that he very likely chose very carefully beforehand for maximum effect.

Some people may view it as inappropriate in an event that is billed as family friendly, but the honest truth is that I can guarantee every high school student in that building has heard far worse than that every day of their high school career. They've heard those same words, directed at others with intent to hurt and wound. They've heard every racial slur in the book, along with euphemisms for every possible sexual orientation, used to attack and demean their classmates. This is not one of those cases. will-i-am is not using these words in a negative connotation. Quite the opposite is true, because he is actually using them to provide emphasis for the high regard in which he hold the program.

Perhaps it wasn't the best venue for his statement (because there are many younger children I'm sure who attend these matches), but it isn't anything hateful or aggressive that should be reacted to in a negative manner. Those young children will grow up and hear those words used every day as soon as they reach middle school, and they'll learn that there are appropriate uses of swearing (to provide emphasis to a passionate positive statement) and inappropriate uses of swearing (to provide emphasis to a negative statement or to attack/demean/belittle others). I'm confident that when they reach an age of maturity they will be able to look back upon will-i-am's statement and realize that it is an example of an appropriate use of swearing that came at a possibly less-than-ideal time.

To me the bottom line is this: If you compare will-i-am's use of "This *censored* is mother*censored* dope" to the daily usage of and exposure to those same words that a vast majority of high school students experience on a daily basis, it's downright tame. He's not attacking anyone. He's not belittling or demeaning others. He's complimenting something he is passionate for in a sincere manner, in that he isn't trying to carefully phrase it to avoid offending people who cannot look beyond the words to find the meaning.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Dean is the most boring public speaker on the planet. That's the sad reality. He starts talking and thousands of people immediately and instinctively tune out. His message might be good, but if nobody is awake to hear it, did it happen?

I can't even remember if Woodie talked, but he at least has some charisma. As someone else mentioned above, the message rarely changes though. Plus those speeches came at the tail end of a very long and exhausting day. Many (most?) people had already left, given that Einstein was over.

Of course you're not going to take Will.i.am's statements to a prospective sponsor and be like "Yo, did you know TSIMFD?". This situation you've constructed is a total straw man. Anyone with half a brain knows that context and audience are important and isn't going to present that quote.

On the other hand, if the students can go to their non robotics friends and classmates and tell them that will.i.am thought what they do is so cool that he dropped a F bomb in front of 20,000 people, maybe those people will start to think robots are cool too.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I might be overruled, but "TSIMFD Robotics" might just be the name of our FLL Jr team next year.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

If will.i.am dropping an F-Bomb in front of 20,000 students is what will make people think that robotics are cool, we are doing something seriously wrong here.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I don't think we are doing anything wrong, Cory is being realistic. If FIRST wants to appeal to everyone, FIRST needs to be more down to earth and realistic about relating to their audience. Also, can people please stop referring to mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in as the f-bomb? It was in such a unique context, it really isn't the same as many of you are implying.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

As a CSA I've heard more F-bombs in those pits, and have quietly asked people to reconsider their language, at moments than I can count and -LONG- before now.

The only reason this seems to have this sort of visibility is because Will.I.AM did it where everyone could hear it.

So people shouldn't throw stones in glass houses. Will is not setting a trend that didn't have legs already. If he had set a new word into the language none of you would likely have even realized it because a new profane or obscene word wouldn't be recognizable without an explanation. NARF!

That doesn't mean you can't object to it, but again, FIRST should never be judged so myopically.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

You're free to act high and mighty and look down your nose at everyone who disagrees with you, but the reality is that kids loved that moment. It was a genuine expression of passion by someone in pop culture, which is easier to relate to than some old guys standing on stage talking in platitudes.

You can't want people from "outside the tent" to come join the FIRST family and then get pissed when they think TSIMFD...

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

That's fine that it doesn't appeal to you, because you aren't the target audience (no offense). The target audience is high school students who often times use language like that every day, and would otherwise be discouraged from joining robotics by the seemingly rigid formality of it all. I think it does an excellent job of getting those people engaged without offending more than a very small minority of the current population, and likely then not enough to get them to leave FIRST entirely.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Ugh - further evidence that I'm becoming an old fart. People talking about Andy Grady (who was a student when I started in FIRST) like he's an old man, must make me ancient. Man, it feels like I was a veteran young guy just a few years ago.

Wait a minute, is it okay for me to say fart?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I understand that the comment was made in a unique moment and addressing a particular audience. Personally I do not think it was strictly necessary but NBD. One can reach students of any age without such language.

I have another query. Nobody says father-#$%^&(. Will.I.Am's modifier to the f-bomb could be interpreted as demeaning to women. Do any female students/teachers/sponsors feel that way?

Will was also careful to say "Palestine" and not "Israel". Should we start another thread?

TIA

He obviously didn't use the word as an insult so I wouldn't say his use was demeaning to woman.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

I always found it interesting/frustrating the difference between "mom jokes" and "dad jokes."

At large, the language we use is problematic and can be casually sexist and is not cool/okay.

In my opinion and I definitely don't speak for others, Will's use of the word wasn't actively demeaning to women. The widespread use of the word reflects problematic attitudes towards women in our society and I'm in no way a fan of that... but the literal meaning of the phrase is pretty much lost and now it's just a decorative word.

Actual mothers might have a different opinion (and rightfully so), but the problem you bring up is a great conversation about how casual sexism pops up in our language - more of a cultural problem and less of an individual's.

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

Where did you get this from?
2:32
He mentions BOTH Israel & Palestine.

Why are you trying to stir up this pot even more?

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

You can't prove that will.I.am isn't an anti-Semite.

You also can't prove that you're not the zodiac killer and/or Ted Cruz. Bake him away, toys!

Re: WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein
 

My apologies - when he used "Israel" I missed it. In the moment, the use of "Palestine" seemed a careful choice of words. Just wondering why...