Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

I personally am a fan of the following ideas:

1. Cheval De Frise stuck in the down position, it provides the challenge of not going so fast or slow that might cause your bot to tip over, (plus the airtime photos are going to be great :P )

2. Or a custom made variant of the cheval de frise ramp idea, so that teams can go over it from both sides, and not just one.

3. Somehow stick boulders in the defense base/holder, so a bot would have to drive over the boulders. Challenge is to not get stuck.

I really don't like the idea of having an empty defense with no points. Because once the other 4 defenses are knocked out, than shooter bots will just traverse the outer works using the empty defense, making it way too easy.... plus 3 ball auto anyone?. And also, that completely negates the effect of the secret passage.. (okay not completely, but still).

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

I really like the idea of having a rolling log or logs as a defense, but I feel like it might be very hard to build consistently or reliably. Another idea would be to take the frame of the Portcullis we already have and mount double doors that open in the middle to the sides of the Portcullis that are already there. However, the difficulty of this defense is that one of the doors, say the left door, will only open towards the Courtyard and the right door will only open towards the Neutral Zone. I think this could be moderately easy to build, and a fun defense for teams to tackle.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

the bumps from breakaway would make for a neat obstacle.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Let me ask this: Where exactly was the problem on the portcullis? I know what the problem is but I just want to know what part of the portcullis caused the problem. Then we could try to think of a new portcullis that removes this problem.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

The problem is, the springs on each side are 40 pound constant tension springs which means the actual door within the portcullis is 85 pounds total. With the springs attached, the door can be easily raised to about 10 feet at which point the assembly becomes very top heavy and tippy. Without the springs attached, the door can be lifted even higher and I understand that may have caused an incident or two. The springs themselves are metal ribbons with, while not a sharp edge, and edge that can cut ungloved fingers as the door moves up and down. Think of someone running 4 feet of the edge of a tape measure across your fingers. The wheels at the bottom of the door present a crush hazard as they roll up and down as well.

The assembly when finished is very easy to tip and has no hand holds or way to lock the door in place.

So, an improved portcullis is:

• lighter.
• has no exposed counterweight components.
• has fewer sharp edges.
• has a door that can be locked in place during transport.
• has handholds for the field reset folks.

I'm sure there's more.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

1) Size
2) Little bit topheavy
3) The giant blade that can easily deal enough damage if it slides on its track
4) the fact that, atleast in FiM, you have to have four people grab the portcullises and shove them on top of everything else

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

I'd specifically say "has no exposed track components" - the weighting isn't the issue regarding pinch points (aside from the top-heaviness), it's the exposed track/wheel And if you cover that, you also pretty much cover the spring. But otherwise, that's a solid list. Just adding a latch/lock or handholds alone would have saved a lot of fingers.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

I have heard a lot of ideas for a rolling log defense, and I really like the concept, but I feel one rolling log would be impossible to get over. I think that a better design for the defense would have 3-5 rolling cylinders, so it still has challenge, but isn't impossible.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Something like 5 lengths of 1 1/2" PVC suspended across the base on taut paracord?

I like it, but it seems to me that something would have to be added to slow the robots down, otherwise crossing that defense would simply be a matter of charging at it at full speed at which point the defense wouldn't last more than a couple of matches.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

This was the strategy for over half of the defenses this year... including the portcullis.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

A box with closing walls. Cause everything should get a great big hug:
or
Something like this:


Drive fast...drive true...otherwise it will kind of crush you:

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

YES! Definitely! This or a Bomb-Omb, or maybe a Chain Chomp. Goombas and Koopa Troopas would probably be good too.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Just wanted to give everyone a heads up of what I've heard from HQ.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

There is no problem with the portcullis.
I competed at MAR district and even was a field reset volunteer at one of the events. I never hurt myself on it (wasn't wearing gloves either), and I haven't heard of anyone else hurting themself on it. Sure it's possible but after you get a cut once you learn to not put your fingers there. That simple. Getting rid of it because a few people weren't paying attention is ridiculous. With that logic we may as well get rid of all defenses because people can cut themselfs on it.

Getting rid of the portcullis penalizes all the teams (like mine) who spent hours on a autonomous for it. Even if HQ is nit letting people ship it out, make a almost identical defense, that doesn't penalizes teams who built a specific mechanism for it.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

If it were in season, you can bet that all of us would be up in arms over this. Hell, look at the reaction when they changed the material of the low bar, let alone got rid of an entire defense.
Since it's off season though, I don't feel quite as shafted that they're not distributing the Port. It's large, difficult to see around when reffing (Particularly when it's in position 2 or 3), and there seems to be a few "major" injuries related to it (Or at least, more injuries than I've heard about from past seasons field reset), and teams have already had a chance to use whatever mechanisms that were purpose built.
And on the plus side, if you take off your Port manipulator, you might now have enough weight to cheesecake a climber on! :D

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

I see your points and your certainty not wrong, but I still believe it's not enough of a reason to get rid of it.

I would normally agree with this however we already have a hanger and a pound or two to spare. Another good point though.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

There were multiple instances of multiple fingers broken because of the portcullis. That right there is absolutely enough reason to send it to the off-season events.

Had it been sent I would still be considering not running it at the Rumble in the Roads. The last thing I want is one of my volunteers to get a major injury.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

yea matt but what about the love of the game bro

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Anyone got an old treadmill belt and some spare 775s?
Really easy to cross one way not so much the other.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

One of these. Check the PODS. They might be stored there. There was no room on the truck heading back to FIRST.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

We should have a defense that's just a bunch of boulders glued together. I like that boulder. That is a nice boulder.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Revolving door?

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

The bumps from Breakaway

New Off-season Defenses
 

Yes. That thing looks absolutely terrifying. Naturally, I'd love to see some of this year's robots go over it.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Actually... That sounds like it could be lots of fun - It fits the same general idea of "crossing defenses" as well as being somewhat easy to replicate.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

My favorite idea is some variant of the cheval de frise. Most teams that can cross the portcullis can cross the cheval de frise, and, if not, they probably never got the portcullis picked against them anyway.

I'm tempted to say that we should just not have a portcullis, seeing as how it was rarely picked at champs. The only time I can remember seeing a portcullis was Einstien QF3M3, but that only happened because both alliances forgot to put in defense selections. (in our defense, Einstein is weird, and the timing is different from other fields)

Anyway, a defense that's like cheval but backwards, or all the quarters are attached together so that they move in unison seems like the best solution to me. Keep in mind that, if any new defenses are added, teams will not be able to test/write autonomous routines for them, so it's really only fair if it's basically identical to a portcullis, or a cheval.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

In theory, if a team had a sponsor capable of making high precision metal parts, a bunch of spare polycarb, and the springs, they could offer to build a competition spec portcullis if it won't be present at an event.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

A cheval de frise that is connected together and moves in unison probably would work best. It could be angled down towards the courtyard so you have to use a cheval routine to cross from the neutral zone to the courtyard, but crossing the other way doesn't require any extra work.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

The organizers of the 2016 STEMley Cup Championship are considering several modifications to the Stronghold game including freezing of the moats and this one:

"5. The evolution of the BOULDER... the CANNONBALL: one red and one blue CANNONBALL (ie. coloured BOULDER) start the match behind their respective alliance walls and may be introduced to the field by the HUMAN PLAYER only in the last twenty seconds of the MATCH. CANNONBALLS, being more destructive than ye BOULDERS of olde, are worth double the value of a regular gray BOULDER when scored in a tower GOAL (ie. ten points in the HIGH GOAL and two TOWER STRENGTH POINTS, four points in the LOW GOAL and two TOWER STRENGTH POINTS)."

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

I like the cannonball idea! By "freezing of the moats", does that mean filling them with ice, leaving them in place, or something else?

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

I'm not trying to single you out, but I wish people wouldn't have this sort of calloused attitude towards safety. I'm certain the people that broke fingers or required stitches from volunteering have a different point of view.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

When a volunteer signs up for field reset I believe they should have expected some level of danger. When I did feild reset this year I defiantly got some cuts on my hands and such (as I expected to), but I didn't complain saying that the rough terrain should be forbidden because I got hurt on it. I put my hand where I shouldn't have and after that I didn't do it again.

I don't disagree that breaking fingers and getting stiches is a little different, however by signing up to volenteer you know what the job is and the dangers it could potentially bring. You know what your getting yourself into.

My solution to this problem would have been after the first time there was a "severe" inquiry would have been to give volunteers an option to not work with the portcullis. Better training for handling it would have helped too. Obviously it's a little late for that now.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Personnel safety MUST be the highest priority in the design of any mechanism which has the potential to be in contact with a person.

"Nothing we do is worth getting hurt." The most successful companies which I have dealt with in my career strive to operate with ZERO safety incidents. The best record even minor injuries and operate to drive those to Zero as well.

Safety must be a core value of every engineer; should be a core value of everybody.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

For one thing, comparing multiple people seriously and permanently injuring their fingers and hands (broken bones, etc) to being cut by a sharp edge is just callous. You didn't complain, because you weren't seriously injured. If you were, especially by something you didn't perceive to have such serious risk, you wouldn't be making armchair calls on the internet about how other volunteers should just suck it up.

The ways the portcullis injured people were not always intuitively obvious, and were very easy for someone to do to themselves. From what I understand, the assembly tends to fall apart when not installed in a base (via twisting or whatnot), and trying to catch the falling heavy door leaves your fingers very vulnerable to being pinched. The CF springs at the top of the door also have lots of stored energy and sharp edges.

After week 3 or 4 this year, your common-sense idea of keeping volunteers away from the portcullis was implemented at some events - only FTAs were allowed to assemble it I believe. It was known to be dangerous since then, and was kept in the competition to be fair to the competitors and to avoid mid season rule changes.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

A lot of people doing field reset are getting their first into to FRC, coming in they should not be expected to know there is a risk of serious injury.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

What you're posting is troubling to me. What you're describing is what FIRST's safety culture should address, but appears to be failing.

If anyone is ever injured at an event, we absolutely should be reporting it. At a minimum, we should make FIRST and the event know, and possibly other volunteers and teams aware of the injury.

For one, anything that can be addressed should be addressed. Maybe there were sharp edges missed on the defense that should have been filed down (out of spec equipment). Maybe volunteers need to be wearing gloves (inadequate Personal Protection Equipment). These are easy to correct, but won't be corrected until the proper people know about it.

Two, other people need to know so that the injury can be learned from. How terrible would it be if someone else was injured in the exact same way because people that knew the hazard existed said nothing.

Three, this is something that you'll see and is practiced in the real world, and it's not something you should have to learn your first day on the job. It's more important than shouting "ROBOT" anyway.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Another Idea:

The Kool Aid Defense.

Take a large sheet of paper. Hang it in the former portcullis without the gate. Every time a team breaks through the paper successfully AND the audience yells "OH YEAH" the team gets points. Audience participation is required to receive points.

You'll need a lot of tape and paper, however it will increase audience participation.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Oh yeah! :D

P.S. Running out of tape shouldn't be an issue; what team doesn't bring duct tape? :)

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Could get one of those screens with magnets on them.
http://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Scree...et+screen+door

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Maybe more regions should adopt the 21+ policy for field reset. I wonder if Minnesota saw fewer portcullis injuries as a result of their more experienced volunteers

/S

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Twinkie Defense: two large yellow blocks of open-cell foam, rounded at all edges, loosely covered together in a single layer of 6 mil transparent plastic sheeting.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

You had to go there...

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Despite our love for hockey, even in Canada we cannot get permission to fill and freeze the moats (high school gym, wooden floors, blah, blah, blah). Instead, the resourceful STEMley planners have been searching for the next best thing - a surface which simulates the low friction characteristic of frozen water.

No, not regolith.

Robot testing is currently underway on a roller top surface (see attachment) that would fill the gap between the moat side walls.

Team registration for the 2016 STEMley Cup Championship (along with the two other Ontario off-season events) is open now.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Remember what happened to the low bar fabric? That screen isn't nearly as thick, and while it may look like it would hold up, it's probably cheaply made like most infomercial products. And if a magnet on that stuck to something on a robot...:yikes: wait...I have an idea! Fairly weak magnets that may or may not chase/stick to robots!

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Our robot has steel plates on it. This would be fun.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

How about strip curtains (these are those plastic curtains at the car wash). They would reduce visibility, but not too much. I was thinking the curtains can be about twice as high as the low bar.

Our robot is all aluminum! We are invincible!

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

What about the bumpers? ;)

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Robots are allowed to be 54" tall, so any defense should be designed around that constraint and allow 60" of clearance or you've set a new arbitrary height requirement.

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

WALL-E game again? :)

So the tall robots can see what it's like to breach the low bar? Not a bad idea!

Not so fast...everything is on eBay! :D

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

I present to you two new defenses:

The Hill


The Trap

Re: New Off-season Defenses
 

Finally, a water game!!!