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-   -   [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148069)

CalTran 03-05-2016 22:34

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1582984)
Yeah, I'm in the boat of GeeTwo is way beyond MCC and into wish listing what his robot did.


Fact - at most early events (by which I mean before week, say, 6?) you could seed high with a favorable schedule and a reliable drivetrain. Don't need to TOUCH a ball. Like, ever. So for me, a MCC (which I usually define as a robot that will play in eliminations) consists of nothing more than a drive base capable of clearing the passive defenses. A portculis/cdf arm pneumatically driven would have been wonderful but not minimum.

So Dozer? :rolleyes:
Throwback to an incredibly old article about the subject.

EricH 04-05-2016 00:42

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1582984)
So for me, a MCC (which I usually define as a robot that will play in eliminations) consists of nothing more than a drive base capable of clearing the passive defenses. A portculis/cdf arm pneumatically driven would have been wonderful but not minimum.

How 'bout a portcullis wedge that is gravity-dropped (or maybe spring-dropped?) when the robot moves quickly? If you're sneaky enough with the geometry, might be able to work the CDF with the same unit.


Actually, here's one for y'all. 6220, rookie robot out of SoCal. Drivetrain (small), and depending on when you look (read: quals/elims), maybe has a pool-noodle blocker aboard. B/D defenses, C with some help. Last pick at O.C. (Week 5), won event on defense(s).

yonip 04-05-2016 00:47

[MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1583055)
How 'bout a portcullis wedge that is gravity-dropped (or maybe spring-dropped?) when the robot moves quickly? If you're sneaky enough with the geometry, might be able to work the CDF with the same unit.



Team 449 had a single wedge for both cheval and portcullis (granted pneumatically positioned, and still wasn't strong enough to hold the cheval plank down, but port was a piece of cake - easier than lowbar IMO. My favorite auto to tell alliance partners about, passive port). we also used gravity to drop another mechanism, our intake, so itd stay within our frame perimiter before auto, but then drop to a manipulation position during auto.

Jen Lawrie 04-05-2016 05:46

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
I think 1466 built something closer to the MCC. There was no intake, didn't manipulate boulders except when driving over them, but could clear all the defenses quickly and breach independently. We were able to seed high enough to be the 5th alliance captain at SMR in week 5. There are a number of lessons I think we learned that could have improved the robot design. I'm still not convinced, though, that an intake was necessary to play in elims if your drivetrain is reliable and drivers have had a lot of practice time. I do wish we'd added additional capabilities to the robot, but resources were somewhat limited and the focus was on playing in eliminations. I don't know how many teams out there were alliance captains at regionals without manipulating boulders, but my guess would be that we were not alone in that.

Kevin Leonard 04-05-2016 09:54

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1582984)
Yeah, I'm in the boat of GeeTwo is way beyond MCC and into wish listing what his robot did.


Fact - at most early events (by which I mean before week, say, 6?) you could seed high with a favorable schedule and a reliable drivetrain. Don't need to TOUCH a ball. Like, ever. So for me, a MCC (which I usually define as a robot that will play in eliminations) consists of nothing more than a drive base capable of clearing the passive defenses. A portculis/cdf arm pneumatically driven would have been wonderful but not minimum.

Wouldn't have been selected or seeded at either event I attended.

An even simpler robot I'd present as an MCC would be 5240, Udder Chaos from Potsdam, NY.

5240 was a rhino tracks drivetrain with a big gap in their front bumper with an intake/outtake of sorts inside that was built specifically to do low goals. They seeded top 8 at both TVR and FLR because all they did was put balls into the low goals every single match. I think they topped out at 7 once.

They couldn't manipulate the CDF or Portcullis (although that didn't stop them from trying)

Jay O'Donnell 04-05-2016 10:35

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard (Post 1583172)
Wouldn't have been selected or seeded at either event I attended.

An even simpler robot I'd present as an MCC would be 5240, Udder Chaos from Potsdam, NY.

5240 was a rhino tracks drivetrain with a big gap in their front bumper with an intake/outtake of sorts inside that was built specifically to do low goals. They seeded top 8 at both TVR and FLR because all they did was put balls into the low goals every single match. I think they topped out at 7 once.

They couldn't manipulate the CDF or Portcullis (although that didn't stop them from trying)

5240s biggest reason for seeding so high was how good their driver was. He picked up the controls and was amazing from the get go.

Ben Martin 04-05-2016 10:45

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
I think an MCC for getting picked at every event this year was an intake + pneumatic catapult that went under the low bar. Teams could install a flashlight or put crosshairs on a camera and have reliable shooting without having to run any control loops. It was made easier by 'Snow Problem presenting an RI3D video.

Team 41 is a great example of this.

AdamHeard 04-05-2016 11:10

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
True MCC

Low Bar
Low Goal
Class B/D obstacles
Practice

Lil' Lavery 04-05-2016 11:22

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1583219)
True MCC

Low Bar
Low Goal
Class B/D obstacles
Practice

+The ability to stay on batter
+Autonomous crossing

Without those two, I don't think you fit the criteria.

IKE 04-05-2016 11:31

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1583219)
True MCC

Low Bar
Low Goal
Class B/D obstacles
Practice

Winner winner chicken dinner. The most essential item left out of most MCC analysis.

You can have the best personal trainers, an indoor gym, and access to every NBA game video ever taken, but if you don't practice dribbling, passing, catching, and getting into position.... who cares how well you shoot.

Finish early, drive the wheels off of it, fix it and drive it some more.

Most teams would be better served with 10 hours of practice than 100 hours of fiddling with some sort of do-hickey...

Ever notice the improvement at a competition between Match 1 and the finals with a team (especially the 3rd)? At a district, that is 12 matches during qualifying, and maybe an additional 6 during QFs and SFs. IE, giving the driver less than an hour of additional competitive operation makes a noticeable improvement. Imagine what 10 hours could do....

GreyingJay 04-05-2016 11:35

Re: [MCC] Minimum Competive Concept 2016
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IKE (Post 1583229)
Most teams would be better served with 10 hours of practice than 100 hours of fiddling with some sort of do-hickey...

Ever notice the improvement at a competition between Match 1 and the finals with a team (especially the 3rd)? At a district, that is 12 matches during qualifying, and maybe an additional 6 during QFs and SFs. IE, giving the driver less than an hour of additional competitive operation makes a noticeable improvement. Imagine what 10 hours could do....

We specifically noted this on our drive team. If you assume a regional is 10-15 matches times 2 minutes per match... that's only 30 minutes of drive time. We had time for one evening practice session before going to our week 1 regional, and that practice time made a huge difference.


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