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-   -   Split Champs assignment (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148233)

Chief Hedgehog 05-05-2016 15:01
Split Champs assignment
 
Website for 2017-2018 Championships

Map for Split Champs

Steven Smith 05-05-2016 15:02
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Was about to post myself... interesting the first email I got was an FLL team blast ;)

Going to Houston, but no surprises there since we're in Dallas.

Chief Hedgehog 05-05-2016 15:03
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Smith (Post 1583995)
Was about to post myself... interesting the first email I got was an FLL team blast ;)

Going to Houston, but no surprises there since we're in Dallas.
Same here. FLL came through first.

Tim Sharp 05-05-2016 15:04
2017 & 2018 FIRST Championships Information Update
 
Just got an email from FIRST with the Championship update. Looks like a NE/ SW split.

http://www.firstinspires.org/2017-20...mpionship-info

generaldgibson 05-05-2016 15:06
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Since I live in St. Louis, we'll obviously be staying here next year, but in 2018 and on we'll be going to Houston, which is interesting because Detroit is a shorter drive for us than Houston is.

jlmcmchl 05-05-2016 15:06
Re: 2017 & 2018 FIRST Championships Information Update
 
Already posted.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=148233

jimv 05-05-2016 15:07
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Interesting that the assignments change between the years. I hope that FIRST will use this new opportunity to put championships in spots that previously would have made travel hard for half the world.


Edit: Now I understand why it switched: It's in Detroit in 2018, not St.Louis. So not very exceptional at all. But I still hope for my second point.

PayneTrain 05-05-2016 15:07
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Any visitation rights in the divorce?

Chief Hedgehog 05-05-2016 15:09
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Kind of bummed we miss out on the Cali and Texas teams.

guniv 05-05-2016 15:09
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
The Kentucky - Tennessee split is interesting; if there's a move to districts around here soon, it was assumed it would be TN- KY because of KY's small number of teams.

Chris is me 05-05-2016 15:09
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
If you thought divisions were uneven in depth and strength, wait until you see the rosters for the Championships...

Why are you doing this to us, FIRST?

ATannahill 05-05-2016 15:10
Re: 2017 & 2018 FIRST Championships Information Update
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlmcmchl (Post 1584002)
That only links to the map, this gives more information.

CalTran 05-05-2016 15:12
Re: 2017 & 2018 FIRST Championships Information Update
 
So, as a Kansas team, and Missouri resident, I'm not sure how I feel.

Alyssa 05-05-2016 15:12
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
I just got sent the link from multiple people that I'm never going to see again, with messages along the lines of "Love you Lyss, gonna miss you at comp." I'm so devastated they're doing this to us.

Chief Hedgehog 05-05-2016 15:14
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1584006)
Any visitation rights in the divorce?
They do include this paragraph on the Website:

"As noted above, our primary goal is to ensure teams have the ability to attend their “home” Championship, which in most cases will be closer to where they live than their non-home Championship, thereby hopefully minimizing travel costs and transit time. However, we recognize that some teams may desire to attend their non-home Championship for a variety of reasons. Hence, we are working to finalize a mechanism whereby FRC teams can elect to attend their non-home Championship. However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons. As noted above, details on this program are still being worked out and will be communicated at a future date. Due to the processes by which FTC, FLL and FLL Jr. teams qualify for Championship, those Programs will require teams to attend their home Championship."

Tim Sharp 05-05-2016 15:15
Re: 2017 & 2018 FIRST Championships Information Update
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalTran (Post 1584013)
So, as a Kansas team, and Missouri resident, I'm not sure how I feel.
Looks like you'll be in St Louis next year and Houston in 2018.

Billfred 05-05-2016 15:20
Re: 2017 & 2018 FIRST Championships Information Update
 
Let's just get one megathread going:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=148233

:)

bearbot 05-05-2016 15:22
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Darn looks likes will miss our friends on the west coast friends but we have 4 districts New England, MAR, Michigan and Cheaspeake

Hallry 05-05-2016 15:22
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Originally posted here: http://www.firstinspires.org/2017-20...mpionship-info

Quote:
2017 & 2018 FIRST Championships Information Update

More than 25 years ago, FIRST® became a game changer in the STEM world. Over the years, we’ve built an incredible culture with our K-12 FIRST Progression of Programs that celebrates kids’ accomplishments through high-quality, inspiring, life-changing experiences, the culmination of which is our FIRST Championship. FIRST is the oldest and largest youth robotics program in the world, and now we can deliver the FIRST Championship experience to many thousands more young people worldwide!

Geographic Proximity
When FIRST announced the dual FIRST Championship structure starting in 2017, our primary intent was to make the life-changing excitement and inspiration of the FIRST Championship more accessible, available, and affordable to more kids and teams.

To stay true to this goal, geographic proximity became our first-order determinant when assigning teams from a given state, province or country to a “home” Championship, especially when those geographic regions are viewed to be within a reasonable driving distance of one of the Championships. Within this constraint, we then tried, as best we could, to balance the number of teams that feed in to each Championship, recognizing that the number of teams in any given region varies and grows from year to year. Importantly, we then aligned geographic assignments across all four FIRST programs, so that participants, Mentors, and Sponsors who support teams across multiple FIRST programs in a given geographic region will be able to support all of those teams at a single FIRST Championship.

A committee of FIRST staff and community volunteers worked diligently to appropriately allocate geographic areas to the FIRST Championships for both 2017 and 2018, recognizing that the FIRST Championship will be in Houston, Texas, U.S. and St. Louis, Missouri, U.S. in 2017 and then in Houston, Texas, U.S. and Detroit, Michigan, U.S. in 2018-2020. Based on our learning and experience in 2017 and 2018, we may or may not make additional changes to the assignment structure in 2019 and beyond.

Teams will be assigned to attend a FIRST Championship (i.e., their “home” Championship) based on the location where the team is based and not the location of the event through which they qualify for Championship.

Please note that in the transition year of 2017, we recognize that there is not a lot of geographical separation between Houston and St. Louis. In 2018-2020, the geographical separation between the two Championships is greater, and there will be a significant improvement in average team drive time for North American teams. (As you already know, this metric would be even better had we been able to secure a more western-U.S. venue that met our needs. Unfortunately, that was not possible.)

A full slate of team and individual student awards will be presented at each of the FIRST Championships.

2017 & 2018 Geographic Assignment Maps (PDF)

2017 Cities & Dates
As previously announced, the 2017 FIRST Championships will be held in Houston, Texas, U.S. on April 19-22, 2017 and in St. Louis, Missouri, U.S. on April 26-29, 2017. The 2017 geographic assignment map (page one of PDF) delineates which states, provinces and countries will feed into each of the Houston and St. Louis Championships in 2017. Each 2017 Championship will host up to 400 FRC teams, 128 FTC teams, 108 FLL teams and 60 FLL Jr. teams.

For the FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) program, which incorporates a Super Regional qualifying structure in the United States, states participating in the East and North FTC Super Regionals will compete at the St. Louis Championship, and states participating in West and South FTC Super Regionals will compete in the Houston Championship. To create cross-program alignment, Kentucky, which is currently in the South FTC Super Regional will move to the North FTC Super Regional in 2017 and beyond, and will compete in the St. Louis Championship in 2017.

The states of Kansas and Missouri are currently in the North FTC Super Regional. That will remain the same in 2017, and those two states will compete at the St. Louis Championship.

2018 Cities & Dates
As previously announced, the 2018 FIRST Championships will be held in Houston, Texas, U.S. on April 18-21, 2018 and in Detroit, Michigan, U.S. on April 25-28, 2018. The 2018 geographic assignment map (page two of PDF) shows which states, provinces and countries will feed into each of the Houston and Detroit Championships in 2018. Again, each 2018 Championship will host up to 400 FRC teams, 128 FTC teams, 108 FLL teams and 60 FLL Jr. teams.

With the exception of Kansas and Missouri, all of the states, provinces and countries that are assigned to the St. Louis Championship in 2017 will transfer to the Detroit Championship in 2018. Teams from Kansas and Missouri will transition to attend the Houston Championship beginning in 2018.

To maintain alignment with the FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) Super Regional advancement structure, the states of Kansas and Missouri will also move to the South FTC Super Regional in 2018 and beyond. States participating in the East and North FTC Super Regionals will compete at the Detroit Championship, and states participating in West and South FTC Super Regionals will compete in the Houston Championship.

Ability to attend your “non-home” FIRST Championship
As noted above, our primary goal is to ensure teams have the ability to attend their “home” Championship, which in most cases will be closer to where they live than their non-home Championship, thereby hopefully minimizing travel costs and transit time. However, we recognize that some teams may desire to attend their non-home Championship for a variety of reasons. Hence, we are working to finalize a mechanism whereby FRC teams can elect to attend their non-home Championship. However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons. As noted above, details on this program are still being worked out and will be communicated at a future date. Due to the processes by which FTC, FLL and FLL Jr. teams qualify for Championship, those Programs will require teams to attend their home Championship.

Waitlist
The FRC and FTC programs will have Waitlist slots available for both Championships. The details for Waitlist slots, along with the number of earned slots assigned to each FRC District, each FTC Super Regional event and countries outside the U.S., and each FLL and FLLJr. region and Partner are still being worked out.

Culminating Event
In response to your questions and feedback from teams, we are exploring options to bring the top alliances from each Championship together at a high-caliber, potentially made-for-TV-type, post-season event. However, we do not currently have definitive plans for such an event, but continue to explore our options.


Posted May 5, 2016

JohnFogarty 05-05-2016 15:22
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Well the statistical odds of 2056 winning their next world championship just went WAAAAYYY up.

mwmac 05-05-2016 15:22
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmac (Post 1497156)
Just for fun, I tried a rough cut of geographic assignments based on 2015 FRC registration numbers. The goal was to create an approximately even split of teams while trying to cluster around the two venues. 2908 FRC teams registered last year. Selecting the Dakotas, NE, MO, TN and NC and all states south and west of them, (and including AK, HI, western Canada and Mexico, Israel, Brazil, Australia, Germany, Turkey and China yields roughly 1320 +or- teams that could be assigned to the Houston venue or about 140 shy of an even split between venues.

I do not envy this committee or the task they will confront. Whatever their recommendation, it is likely to leave many dissatisfied. That said, I wish them well in their deliberations...
Looks like I guessed pretty close to how the split would go...in September!
Disappointed that HQ/BoD still have not come to grips with the opt out mechanism.

Akash Rastogi 05-05-2016 15:22
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Well, $@#$@#$@#$@#, now I'm sad.

Billfred 05-05-2016 15:23
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog (Post 1584015)
They do include this paragraph on the Website:

"As noted above, our primary goal is to ensure teams have the ability to attend their “home” Championship, which in most cases will be closer to where they live than their non-home Championship, thereby hopefully minimizing travel costs and transit time. However, we recognize that some teams may desire to attend their non-home Championship for a variety of reasons. Hence, we are working to finalize a mechanism whereby FRC teams can elect to attend their non-home Championship. However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons. As noted above, details on this program are still being worked out and will be communicated at a future date. Due to the processes by which FTC, FLL and FLL Jr. teams qualify for Championship, those Programs will require teams to attend their home Championship."
My hope is that they take the simplest solution here:

STEP 1: Team that wants to jump pays their registration for their home Championship.
STEP 2: They email FIRST (or select in TIMS, or whatever) to indicate they want to switch. They go on a first-come-first-served list. They know where they are in the list, and there's a button to give up their place on the list.
STEP 3: They wait for a team to perform Step 2 going in the other direction.
STEP 4: They're switched.

jlmcmchl 05-05-2016 15:23
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearbot (Post 1584023)
Darn looks likes will miss our friends on the west coast friends but we have 4 districts New England, MAR, Michigan and Cheaspeake
Don't forget Indiana, another incredibly strong district for it's size.

Tim Sharp 05-05-2016 15:25
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
I'm interested in how the logistics of filling the CMP slots will work. I hadn't considered the fact that teams competing at the same regional/district event could earn spots at different championship events.
The possibility exists that one event could fill up faster than the other, resulting in a large difference in the # of wait list slots available in one event over the other,

EricLeifermann 05-05-2016 15:26
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Im sure I'm missing some but it looks like only 7 HOF/original teams in the Houston champs while all the rest are in the St. Louis/Detroit.

I get that FIRST can't help where the HOF and original team are from but the HOF area at champs are going to look even more sparce than they have; but with less teams they should be able to give the HOF teams the amount of space they used to/deserve to have....

AndrewPospeshil 05-05-2016 15:28
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Ability to attend your “non-home” FIRST Championship
As noted above, our primary goal is to ensure teams have the ability to attend their “home” Championship, which in most cases will be closer to where they live than their non-home Championship, thereby hopefully minimizing travel costs and transit time. However, we recognize that some teams may desire to attend their non-home Championship for a variety of reasons. Hence, we are working to finalize a mechanism whereby FRC teams can elect to attend their non-home Championship. However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons. As noted above, details on this program are still being worked out and will be communicated at a future date. Due to the processes by which FTC, FLL and FLL Jr. teams qualify for Championship, those Programs will require teams to attend their home Championship.
I read this as "No, not every powerhouse team is going to go to the same Championship." Which, while a bummer, is probably for the best.

I'll probably be looking at a list of the Houston teams and crying softly to myself for the rest of the day.

PayneTrain 05-05-2016 15:28
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFogarty (Post 1584026)
Well the statistical odds of 2056 winning their next world championship just went WAAAAYYY up.
Didn't it literally just plummet to zero?

Lil' Lavery 05-05-2016 15:29
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Naturally, I'm quite bummed we won't get to see many of the new Californian and PNW buddies we made while attending Championship this year. A lot of our pit neighbors are falling on the other side of the split, and that's a real downer. Getting to be in an aisle with so many top notch teams from the west was really awesome.

Selfishly, I'm pleased we have the later dates of Championship (and we get to hopefully return to STL next year).

On the other hand, knowing how much our students were impressed (and hopefully inspired) by the Championship experience, I'm hoping that FIRST's desired change comes to fruition. I'm hoping more teams will be able to experience Championship at a reasonable cost, and that both events will maintain the same level of inspiration at the singular event has achieved.

SoccerTaco 05-05-2016 15:29
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
We are slated for Houston.

Knoxville to Detroit or St Louis, ~7.5 hours.
Knoxville to Houston, ~13.5 hours.

The Kentucky border isn't far from us - time to rent a P.O. Box for our home address?? :rolleyes:

Ty Tremblay 05-05-2016 15:30
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
If the split happened in 2016, what would each CMP's OPRs look like?

ATannahill 05-05-2016 15:32
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1584025)
Is there a way to move this post to the top of the thread? Or could the OP edit in this link so that the first post is not just the map?

AdamHeard 05-05-2016 15:32
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Southern champs for us!

Lil' Lavery 05-05-2016 15:32
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1584034)
Im sure I'm missing some but it looks like only 7 HOF/original teams in the Houston champs while all the rest are in the St. Louis/Detroit.

I get that FIRST can't help where the HOF and original team are from but the HOF area at champs are going to look even more sparce than they have; but with less teams they should be able to give the HOF teams the amount of space they used to/deserve to have....
On the other hand, three of the past four (and four of the past six)Chairman's Winners will be on the Houston side of the divide.

TDav540 05-05-2016 15:33
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewPospeshil (Post 1584035)
I read this as "No, not every powerhouse team is going to go to the same Championship." Which, while a bummer, is probably for the best.

I'll probably be looking at a list of the Houston teams and crying softly to myself for the rest of the day.
That's what I read into this too. As much as it could be super simple, they're probably going to make an overly complicated system to make sure the events are approximately balanced.

We're set to go to Houston, but I'm pretty excited for it. The event might not be as strong (or at least, that's what it seems like most people think), but it has almost every major international area, in addition to teams from both coasts of the US. That's going to be fun.

Pauline Tasci 05-05-2016 15:36
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Guess we will be in Houston, missing our East Coast, Canadian, and some International buddies.
I know I say this a lot,
but man FIRST really $@#$@#$@#$@#ed up with this call.

Hallry 05-05-2016 15:37
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
So when's the next time you'll see your alliance partners from last week ever again?

Chief Hedgehog 05-05-2016 15:38
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1584040)
Is there a way to move this post to the top of the thread? Or could the OP edit in this link so that the first post is not just the map?
Took care of it. Hope that helps!

Drakxii 05-05-2016 15:39
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Wow... it took them a year and special committee to come up with this? They haven't even decided on "non-home" champs selections or culminating event details.

Also I wish FIRST would stop focusing on the "affordable" of this when they are making TN and NC go to Houston instead of Detroit/St. Louis. Not to mention that Houston is one of the more expensive places to fly to in the US.

Monochron 05-05-2016 15:39
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Really disappointed that NC got assigned to Houston. The trip to Houston is around 200 miles further than to St. Louis and 400 miles further than to Detroit. We will be looking at significantly high bus/flight costs (not to mention possibly needing a third driver if bussing) as well as increased travel time.
I understand the need to balance the teams, but an additional 400 miles (or more from other places) is a massive burden to put on teams looking to grow.

AdamHeard 05-05-2016 15:39
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
#TSINMFD

Lil' Lavery 05-05-2016 15:40
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1584046)
So when's the next time you'll see your alliance partners from last week ever again?
MidKnight Mayhem for 1712 and 869 ;)

Actually, all of our alliance partners fell on the same side of the split as we did. And in the same pit aisle. It was a pretty easy alliance to find after alliance selection.

FrankJ 05-05-2016 15:40
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewPospeshil (Post 1584035)
I read this as "No, not every powerhouse team is going to go to the same Championship." Which, while a bummer, is probably for the best.
It will be interesting to see if the option to change championships will weigh "Power Factor" or HOF status. Maybe only teams with OPR in a certain range will be allowed to switch?

Theseusgoats 05-05-2016 15:40
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Pardon my canadian geography, but are 1114, 2056, and 1241 going to the St.Louis/ Detroit champs?

Michael Corsetto 05-05-2016 15:40
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1584036)
Didn't it literally just plummet to zero?
Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike

Lil' Lavery 05-05-2016 15:43
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theseusgoats (Post 1584053)
Pardon my canadian geography, but are 1114, 2056, and 1241 going to the St.Louis/ Detroit champs?
Yes. All three of those teams are from Ontario, which is in the Eastern half of Canada.

Theseusgoats 05-05-2016 15:45
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Do you know about 610?

Akash Rastogi 05-05-2016 15:46
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theseusgoats (Post 1584058)
Do you know about 610?
http://www.thebluealliance.com/
http://www.mapsofworld.com/north-america/

Search for whatever team you want, check it against the map.

mwmac 05-05-2016 15:46
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
"However, to maintain balance between the two events, not every team who asks may be able to move to their “non-home” Championship. Specifically, FIRST may limit the quantity of teams allowed to change from one event to the other for various reasons."

I am willing to bet that the terms "balance" and "various reasons" will effectively bar e.g. 1114, 2056, 33, 67 from opting to go south in the same year (or 254, 1678, 118, 148) regardless of when each team initiates the opt out mechanism. Subjective granting of opt out requests will rule....

Was hoping for much better.

Tim Sharp 05-05-2016 15:47
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theseusgoats (Post 1584058)
Do you know about 610?
They are also from Toronto/Eastern Canada

Rick 05-05-2016 15:47
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto (Post 1584054)
Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike
The problem I see with a potential #1champs in 2021 is will FIRST ever take back any of the 800 world championship spots? Could a venue hold an 800 team championship? To have a single championship I think 600 is the top end.

Going 4 years with 2 champs is going to leave a generation of FRC with the expectation of 800 teams going to 2 champs. The current generation plus the veteran mentors are not happy now - but what happens in 2021 when it doesn't combine into one championship? Will anyone expect the "old timers" care?

Ty Tremblay 05-05-2016 15:51
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto (Post 1584054)
Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike
Behold as the mighty 1678 retreats to its cave for hibernation.

waialua359 05-05-2016 15:51
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 1584034)
Im sure I'm missing some but it looks like only 7 HOF/original teams in the Houston champs while all the rest are in the St. Louis/Detroit.

I get that FIRST can't help where the HOF and original team are from but the HOF area at champs are going to look even more sparce than they have; but with less teams they should be able to give the HOF teams the amount of space they used to/deserve to have....
If we get our wish, it will be down to at most 6 teams unfortunately.

Jared Russell 05-05-2016 15:52
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto (Post 1584054)
Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike
Or, hypothetically, you could save your energy (and money) and skip the official half-championship in favor of an IRI-on-steroids type de-facto World Championship.

Hypothetically.

sdangelo 05-05-2016 15:57
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
I find it interesting that each ChampionSplit will have 400 FRC teams (as opposed to this year's 600) but the full current amount of other program teams (60 FllJr, 108 FLL, and 128 FTC). FIRST wasn't kidding or exaggerating this time when they said they were going to expand the other programs too.

Zyrano 05-05-2016 15:59
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
I would have thought there would have been a time element to this, ie, if you won a week 6 regional or a district championship on week 7, how do you logically get a robot and team to Houston in like 4 days?

Tom Bottiglieri 05-05-2016 16:00
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Russell (Post 1584068)
Or, hypothetically, you could save your energy (and money) and skip the official half-championship in favor of an IRI-on-steroids type de-facto World Championship.

Hypothetically.
Wow, I'd love to learn more about that!

MARS_James 05-05-2016 16:00
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallry (Post 1584046)
So when's the next time you'll see your alliance partners from last week ever again?
3620: 2021 at the earliest
3627: 2017
3360: 2021 at the earliest

Unless we get into IRI who I think have a tougher selection process starting next year

Also how will district slots be allocated, by 400 or 800?

TheJoe 05-05-2016 16:05
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto (Post 1584054)
Correct.

We'll be saving our energy for 2021. See you then :rolleyes:

-Mike
Michael might be on to something here.

What if, Circa 2025, we have North-west, North-East, South-West, and South-East Championships, and the winners of each all converge on STL to play on the Dean Kamen Field for the mega championship? :rolleyes:

pmangels17 05-05-2016 16:06
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Well, it was really nice when I went to CMP in 2012 to seem 16, 79, 100, 115, 118, 148, 179, 180, 192, 233, 254, 330, 359, 842, 971, 973, 987, 1323, 1538, 1540, 1671, 1678, 1912, 1983, 3476, and many others. Maybe in a few years I might get to share an event with y'all again.

peirvine 05-05-2016 16:06
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick (Post 1584062)
The problem I see with a potential #1champs in 2021 is will FIRST ever take back any of the 800 world championship spots? Could a venue hold an 800 team championship? To have a single championship I think 600 is the top end.

Going 4 years with 2 champs is going to leave a generation of FRC with the expectation of 800 teams going to 2 champs. The current generation plus the veteran mentors are not happy now - but what happens in 2021 when it doesn't combine into one championship? Will anyone expect the "old timers" care?
They could potentially run it like they do FTC - where they have 4 "super regionals" which then feed into the World Championship again. I think they had something like that drafted up in 2011 but I could be mistaken.

Hot_Copper_Frog 05-05-2016 16:07
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
As much as I love my fellow Michiganders...the Detroit championship is going to feel a whole lot like MSC.

I'm going to lobby hard for the frogs to travel to Hawaii for some fresh faces starting in 2018.

ehochstein 05-05-2016 16:08
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peirvine (Post 1584078)
They could potentially run it like they do FTC - where they have 4 "super regionals" which then feed into the World Championship again. I think they had something like that drafted up in 2011 but I could be mistaken.
Clearly, this is just the beginning of FIRST's ultimate goal of having 2 Super Regional competitions and 1 World Championship.*

*I have no clue if this is actually FIRST's goal or not.

WCBC 05-05-2016 16:11
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri (Post 1584072)
Wow, I'd love to learn more about that!
Cosigned!

Tim Sharp 05-05-2016 16:11
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Russell (Post 1584068)
Or, hypothetically, you could save your energy (and money) and skip the official half-championship in favor of an IRI-on-steroids type de-facto World Championship.

Hypothetically.
I wonder how many teams will make the decision to forego the extra expense and hassle of the new championship format in favor of an extra regional or district event. Especially since the prestige of earning a spot in the CMP has now been cut in half.

I know it's a possibility for us.

TheJoe 05-05-2016 16:12
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Copper_Frog (Post 1584080)
As much as I love my fellow Michiganders...the Detroit championship is going to feel a whole lot like MSC.

I'm going to lobby hard for the frogs to travel to Hawaii for some fresh faces starting in 2018.
Some of our older mentors are joking that it will be like the olden days when we used to compete at the Great Lakes Regional with you all :]

Akash Rastogi 05-05-2016 16:13
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sharp (Post 1584083)
I wonder how many teams will make the decision to forego the extra expense and hassle of the new championship format in favor of an extra regional or district event. Especially since the prestige of earning a spot in the CMP has now been cut in half.

I know it's a possibility for us.
For us District teams, we will continue to hope more areas will move to our format and inter-district play with be more prevalent (Canada perhaps). If this happens, I don't really see us justifiably playing at a half-champs.

Hot_Copper_Frog 05-05-2016 16:16
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoe (Post 1584085)
Some of our older mentors are joking that it will be like the olden days when we used to compete at the Great Lakes Regional with you all :]
I mean, it is kind of like GLR on steroids, if you look at the map.

BrendanB 05-05-2016 16:17
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 1584086)
For us District teams, we will continue to hope more areas will move to our format and inter-district play with be more prevalent (Canada perhaps). If this happens, I don't really see us justifiably playing at a half-champs.
Especially depending on the format. A 400 team event split into eight divisions is incredibly weak with so many teams qualify off of the waitlist.

I'd rather save some cash and either play at a regional, another district, or travel during the off-season.

I know for several teams, winning their district Championship is their current goal and has already had a more competitive atmosphere than Champs. Why even go a weak Championship?

pmangels17 05-05-2016 16:17
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Wait, here's the real question in all this: Is Will.I.Am going to come to both Championship events, or will only half of FIRST get their championship event overshadowed by needless controversy? (As if Half-Champs isn't controversial enough)

techtiger1 05-05-2016 16:18
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 1584086)
For us District teams, we will continue to hope more areas will move to our format and inter-district play with be more prevalent (Canada perhaps). If this happens, I don't really see us justifiably playing at a half-champs.
This, I'm not really at all interested in attending the championships right now. I'll go to Houston our home championship once because I have never been there but after that idk.

RoboChair 05-05-2016 16:18
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
I would like to see FIRST push for everyone having districts instead of regionals(sparse international teams I have no current solution for). Everyone gets at least 2 events, those that do well get a Championship experience at the District level champs, and the best of the best at District Champs goes to the World Champs. The district model gives FIRST absolute control over team attendance numbers for Champs, bring X number of teams.

TheBoulderite 05-05-2016 16:20
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Our alliance partners on Carson this year were 525, 4028, and 3352. We will never see any of them again. :(

Thanks for a great run, guys! Good luck next year!

Rivet Man 05-05-2016 16:23
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theseusgoats (Post 1584058)
Do you know about 610?
Hi Theseusgoats,

If you haven't heard, and I believe others have pointed out. There is a website called TheBlueAlliance.com that has a bunch of fascinating information on teams!

I've done the hard part and searched for this team 610 (who can do a hanging shot!) for you on TheBlueAlliance. The link is here http://www.thebluealliance.com/team/610.

Now if I'm reading the page correctly, it says that they are from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Which as far as I've ever heard is the only place people in Canada are from (that CN tower is really tall! I went up it once a long time ago and let me tell you that glass floor is something).

Best Regards,
RM

jajabinx124 05-05-2016 16:24
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoulderite (Post 1584093)
Our alliance partners on Carson this year were 525, 4028, and 3352. We will never see any of them again. :(

Thanks for a great run, guys! Good luck next year!
We won't ever get to see our 2122 Tator buddys again either..

FrankJ 05-05-2016 16:24
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmangels17 (Post 1584090)
Wait, here's the real question in all this: Is Will.I.Am going to come to both Championship events, or will only half of FIRST get their championship event overshadowed by needless controversy? (As if Half-Champs isn't controversial enough)
Actually this is primarily a controversy on CD. I had to work so didn't get to go to Champs and would not have heard about Will's statement without CD. Actually I probably would not have heard it at Champs either since my tolerance for large crowds & stadium seating would have be way overstretched by the time he spoke. :]

TheJoe 05-05-2016 16:25
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Big News! And Season Thoughts (Later...)

Written by Frank Merrick, 2015 MAY 05.

Big News!

In case you haven’t heard, we’ve released information on the 2017/2018 ‘home’ Championship assignments, along with information on a few things still in the works. Check it out here.

Season Thoughts

We’ve got some thoughts to pass along about the 2016 season, but as we expect most folks in the community will be buzzing about those 2017/2018 Championships assignments, we’ll save those for later.

Hope everyone who attended Championship made it home safely and has had a chance to get a little rest!

Frank

I think we may be forgetting abut this. Hallry shared it in a different thread earlier. I wonder what Frank will have to say about 2016?

MikLast 05-05-2016 16:25
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Guess this is relevant again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikLast (Post 1468317)
Spokane to Houston: 2,118 miles
Spokane to Detroit: 2,071 miles

Spokane to St. Louis: 1,805 miles

I thought i heard something about cost saving?

Basel A 05-05-2016 16:25
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboChair (Post 1584092)
I would like to see FIRST push for everyone having districts instead of regionals(sparse international teams I have no current solution for). Everyone gets at least 2 events, those that do well get a Championship experience at the District level champs, and the best of the best at District Champs goes to the World Champs. The district model gives FIRST absolute control over team attendance numbers for Champs, bring X number of teams.
I suggested exactly this to Don Bossi at MSC 2015. He didn't seem too keen on the idea. I think that was because FIRST has no involvement in planning district CMPs (and probably doesn't want to step on anybody's toes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Copper_Frog (Post 1584087)
I mean, it is kind of like GLR on steroids, if you look at the map.
Exactly what I'm looking for in a World Championship /s

Nathan Streeter 05-05-2016 16:29
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Largely unsurprising decision... seems reasonable enough. This seemed like the default decision once the split championships was announced. A little saddening, as this adds the extra note of finality.

It would be interesting to see which CMP would have more teams from the 2016 CMP elims, Einstein, and which would have higher OPRs.

So, the next big question for me, is with 400 teams how many divisions will they have? 100 team divisions were awful for the integrity of the rankings and logistics, but a 50 team division would seem pretty weak and shallow... particularly when the CMP team lists are already being dilluted by being split!

AndrewPospeshil 05-05-2016 16:32
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Copper_Frog (Post 1584080)
As much as I love my fellow Michiganders...the Detroit championship is going to feel a whole lot like MSC.

I'm going to lobby hard for the frogs to travel to Hawaii for some fresh faces starting in 2018.
>tfw class of 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by peirvine (Post 1584078)
They could potentially run it like they do FTC - where they have 4 "super regionals" which then feed into the World Championship again. I think they had something like that drafted up in 2011 but I could be mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboChair (Post 1584092)
I would like to see FIRST push for everyone having districts instead of regionals(sparse international teams I have no current solution for). Everyone gets at least 2 events, those that do well get a Championship experience at the District level champs, and the best of the best at District Champs goes to the World Champs. The district model gives FIRST absolute control over team attendance numbers for Champs, bring X number of teams.
I think this is the end goal - and it it's not, I think it should be. If more and more regions move to Districts (lets say, 85% of FRC teams), then FRC could operate much like the FTC Super Regional model, except DCMPs are the the Super Regionals. This way, all teams will get 1-3 small events (Districts/Qualifiers), one big event (DCMP/Super Regional*), and one (hopefully singular) Champs. This way, mid-tier teams get an opportunity to advance to additional levels of competition, while perennial powerhouses get the satisfaction of an "undiluted" CMP.

*yeah, I know FTC has State Champs in most/all places. imo four levels of competition is too much

Mike Starke 05-05-2016 16:33
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Based on the Final Top 25 for this year...

13 of those teams would attend Houston next year, 12 in St. Louis.

Out of the Top 10 of those teams, 6 would compete in Houston, 4 in St. Louis.

Definitely more balanced than I originally thought it would have been. Definitely still absolutely hate the idea though.

Andrew Schreiber 05-05-2016 16:33
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
[expletive]

barn34 05-05-2016 16:34
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Well, 330, it was a hell of a ride this weekend, but it looks like we won't have a chance to team up again for quite a while. At least not at an official event, anyways. We kind of already acknowledged that a bit in St. Louis, but it still sucks to see it made official. You guys are awesome. Best of luck. We'll be rooting for you in Houston!

plnyyanks 05-05-2016 16:41
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboChair (Post 1584092)
...those that do well get a Championship experience at the District level champs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel A (Post 1584099)
I suggested exactly this to Don Bossi at MSC 2015. He didn't seem too keen on the idea. I think that was because FIRST has no involvement in planning district CMPs (and probably doesn't want to step on anybody's toes).
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewPospeshil (Post 1584105)
I think this is the end goal - and it it's not, I think it should be. If more and more regions move to Districts (lets say, 85% of FRC teams), then FRC could operate much like the FTC Super Regional model, except DCMPs are the the Super Regionals. This way, all teams will get 1-3 small events (Districts/Qualifiers), one big event (DCMP/Super Regional*), and one (hopefully singular) Champs.
This is the approach I'd like to see as well. Someone earlier in the thread referenced an old slide from 2011 that included this vision of FRC (note that none of this was ever official in any way)


But District Champs aren't to that point yet either. Like Basel said, FIRST and their event management companies don't run district champs - it's all the local people. And I don't know of any DCMP that runs conferences and has all the flashy lights like CMP does. As far as international/regional teams go, I though this thread from last year was a great start on the problem. Maybe as more areas move to districts, FIRST's event planning people have some more bandwidth they can apply to running District Championships.

Of course, none of this is anywhere near official, but if someone asked me where I envisioned FRC in a few years, this is what I would tell them.

Cothron Theiss 05-05-2016 16:45
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
I'm very confused as to why Tennessee is going to Houston and why Kentucky and Tennessee aren't going to the same place. The Smoky Mountains Regional is the TNKY Regional, because Kentucky and Tennessee don't have enough teams to support their own Regionals (yet). I'm really disappointed that they are planning on splitting a Regional practically in two. Also, Knoxville is closer to Detroit. If anyone has information on why Tennessee is going to Houston, I'd love to hear it.

BrendanB 05-05-2016 16:47
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cothron Theiss (Post 1584117)
I'm very confused as to why Tennessee is going to Houston and why Kentucky and Tennessee aren't going to the same place. The Smoky Mountains Regional is the TNKY Regional, because Kentucky and Tennessee don't have enough teams to support their own Regionals (yet). I'm really disappointed that they are planning on splitting a Regional practically in two. Also, Knoxville is closer to Detroit. If anyone has information on why Tennessee is going to Houston, I'd love to hear it.
Keep in mind that the concentration of teams is for the most part closer to Detroit than Houston however not everyone can go to the Championship that is closer to them.

Cothron Theiss 05-05-2016 16:51
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendanB (Post 1584119)
Keep in mind that the concentration of teams is for the most part closer to Detroit than Houston however not everyone can go to the Championship that is closer to them.
True. But the distance is not as much of a concern for me. I'm more wondering why they would split up a Regional in this way.

Bob Steele 05-05-2016 16:52
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
All I really have to say is this looks quite like the old 400 team version of champs times two. To fit everyone in (including the FLL's and FTC) that probably means 100 team divisions.

So, if you thought a 600 team CMP with 75 team divisions was watered down and saw how your "random" assignment of 10 matches could affect your potential to rank high during the qualification matches, think again ... just add another 25 teams.... how do they get there? Are they from waitlist? Do they add some other type of qualifying position at Regionals? Do they go even deeper into the Districts?

I hope that the powers that be look quite hard at this issue next year when they figure out how teams get points for qualifications.

I will miss seeing all of our new and old friends from the East Coast and Canada.

Good luck to you all!!

Citrus Dad 05-05-2016 16:56
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFogarty (Post 1584026)
Well the statistical odds of 2056 winning their next world championship just went WAAAAYYY up.
It will be just another (Super) Regional to add to their new streak...:(

sdangelo 05-05-2016 17:01
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter (Post 1584101)
It would be interesting to see which CMP would have more teams from the 2016...Einstein...
I'll try the rest of that statement later, but this one I can do by hand.
St. Louis: 19
Houston 2017: 13

Detroit: 18
Houston 2018+: 14

Whatever 05-05-2016 17:04
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Seems like most of the non-US/Canada teams are going to Houston.

Citrus Dad 05-05-2016 17:11
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 1584086)
For us District teams, we will continue to hope more areas will move to our format and inter-district play with be more prevalent (Canada perhaps). If this happens, I don't really see us justifiably playing at a half-champs.
I think this will become a growing problem for FIRST over time. I could envision where the powerhouse teams agree to meet at a late season regional (e.g., SVR) or even having a small invitational a la Chezy Champs to settle the matter in April. That would make it harder for an outsider to break in.

Poseidon5817 05-05-2016 17:14
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Man, this s#&$ is not m-#+%+@&$ing dope.

Michael Hill 05-05-2016 17:14
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1584138)
having a small invitational a la Chezy Champs to settle the matter in April.
IRI?

Citrus Dad 05-05-2016 17:16
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri (Post 1584072)
Wow, I'd love to learn more about that!
Don't you guys talk to each other??? :)

Citrus Dad 05-05-2016 17:17
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1584141)
IRI?
It has to be during the school year not the summer for logistical reasons.

Michael Corsetto 05-05-2016 17:18
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Starke (Post 1584108)
Based on the Final Top 25 for this year...

13 of those teams would attend Houston next year, 12 in St. Louis.

Out of the Top 10 of those teams, 6 would compete in Houston, 4 in St. Louis.

Definitely more balanced than I originally thought it would have been. Definitely still absolutely hate the idea though.
While maybe balanced at the top, I expect Houston to have a much weaker field that STL/Detroit. North 1/2 CMP has 5 (6?) strong districts, while South 1/2 CMP gets PNW and GA, as well as many regional qualifying teams. Additionally, I expect Houston to welcome more teams off of the waitlist than North 1/2 CMP will.

That, coupled with a later weekend, means North 1/2 CMP will likely be more competitive and harder to get in to.

Bummer :(

-Mike

Citrus Dad 05-05-2016 17:20
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
One surprise to me--that they didn't set up a 4 or 5 "area" approach that carves out the 2 coasts and international teams, and rotates those between the two Super Regionals. It will make no cost difference to the West Coast teams where they go, and I suspect the situation may be similar for East Coast teams given that most fly to competition. (Air fare is not directly distance based.)

Hot_Copper_Frog 05-05-2016 17:23
Re: Split Champs assignment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus Dad (Post 1584152)
One surprise to me--that they didn't set up a 4 or 5 "area" approach that carves out the 2 coasts and international teams, and rotates those between the two Super Regionals. It will make no cost difference to the West Coast teams where they go, and I suspect the situation may be similar for East Coast teams given that most fly to competition. (Air fare is not directly distance based.)

Well, they've only announced through 2018, but I believe the Houston/Detroit set-up will continue for several years. So maybe they'll change up the location assignments for 2019 after seeing how things shake out?


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