Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

We're adding to our wish-list for sponsors and would like to find a hassle-free 3D printer. Basically one that you can say "print" and it prints. We had a few sub-2K units that, while they eventually work, tend to need a lot of babysitting and tuning. This might be used by our school's art department as well as engineering so that reliability is important. Is there anything under $15K with at least a 6"x6"x6" build volume that would fit the bill? Cost per print is somewhat of a concern as well. Single color is fine.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

this website might be helpful to you:
http://www.productchart.com/3d_printers/

You can sort 3D printers based on size, whether you have to build it yourself, build volume, price, etc. :)

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

We got one of these this season and are really happy with it.

http://airwolf3d.com/shop/aw3daxiom

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

From what ive seen Ultimakers have always performed well for the price.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

Most of the more "professional" FFF/FDM printers (7K+) are far less "fiddley" than mid-high end consumer printers. However, they often use proprietary filament and the price per print skyrockets. Many companies claim that their proprietary filament is "specially formulated" and "guarantees high quality prints". A majority of these claims are either false or greatly exaggerated as to give an excuse for outrageous prices for generic filament in specially chipped cartridges.
When you get into other printing methods (SLA, SLS) both the printers themselves and the printing material become extremely expensive.

Personally, I've had some great experiences with the Mojo (produced by Stratasys) but, like most of the higher end consumer machines (and low end professional machines), the price per print is much higher than most open filament systems.

It's a bit of a Catch-22. If the machine is of high quality and relatively expensive, 99% of the time, the filament will be extremely expensive in comparison to some of the mid range consumer machines.

Ideally, you want to find a machine with automatic bed leveling, an enclosed build area, and non-proprietary filament.

As far as FDM printers go, more expensive is not always better. I would look into purchasing one (or many) of the LulzBot or Ultimaker machines. They both have an excellent community and great support.
(Makerbot may be another option, but the newer machines have had several issues and the company has some not-so-nice business practices)

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I own 2 Up Plus! printers and they are very stable.
They do not, however, have that large a print area.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

At our makerspace, we use the following saying "The default state of a 3D printer is broken" #JustSaying :D

YMMV

Brian

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I have run 3D printers ranging from $300 FFF printers all the way up to factories full of $1,400,000 SLS printers. None of them are hassle free. I have spent days figuring out firmware issues on cheap reprap derivatives and weeks calibrating out the last alignment problems on the laser and process chamber temperature of extremely expensive printers. They all have their problems.

The closest, cheapest thing to hassle free you are going to find that is appropriate for FRC parts is something like a Stratasys Mojo or Dimension with a service contract.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

At the risk of sounding like a company rep (I'm not in any way), I have to say that our Lulzbot Mini is amazing. I attend a separate school from my FRC team, and there aren't many people with much technical knowledge (yet). I use our two Minis for printing robot parts, and many other people use them to print random things from thingiverse.

It uses a modified version of Ultimaker's Cura as far as software goes, and there's an "easy" mode and an "expert" mode. The easy mode is literally just select the material, quality/speed, and click print. Expert mode has basically every setting that I have ever needed. The support material generator is amazing, because you can (usually) pull it out in one long piece.

As far as PLA goes, it prints flawlessly. With it's standard PEI surface and heated bed, there's no adhesion problems for PLA.

There's a pretty darn low learning curve, but it can also print almost any material because it has a full-metal hot end. It cleans itself.

At $1250, I am trying to convince people to buy me one for college (no success yet). The other great thing is that it stores and travels amazingly well. It has made many trips to my house and on robotics trips.

Lulzbot also sells the Taz, which is basically the same, but with a 11x10.8x9.8" build volume. In my experience, it's not quite as easy to use.

Sorry for a long post, but one more thing. My only gripe with the Mini is that it has to be plugged into a computer to print things, you can't load it onto an SD card and use your computer for other things. (More of an issue when I'm at home)

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I just want to point out that Stratasys owns Makerbot now. Makerbot also started out as a completely open-source company, and now are not nearly so much. Also some weird stuff with Thingiverse (their public file-hosting website) and alleged stealing and filing for patents on designs released there.

I don't know is true or false, but I really don't like where Makerbot went and how all of the Stratasys stuff is proprietery and super expensive filament (and disposable bed plates! Come on guys.).

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I own three different 3D Printers in my personal work space. All have their good features and their bugs.

TL;DR: Robo3D R1 + Simplify3d Software = Happy Printing

My recommendation for a printer is a Robo 3D R1. It is a fantastic low-end printer (<$1000) and I couldn't be happier with it. It has a large heated, glass print bed (10"x9"x8") and up to .1mm layer height. I was able to start printing successfully right out of the box and have been ever since.

One of my other printers is a Makerbot Replicator Mini 5th Gen. It's only capable of printing small things in PLA, however it has fantastic dimensional accuracy. The downsides to this printer however are numerous, and I believe would be true across other MakerBot printers. Simply, it's proprietary and difficult to debug when something goes wrong. And lately, I've had trouble getting even test prints to work. I do not recommend a MakerBot.

My last printer is a Flashforge Creator Pro. Capable of dual extrusion, has heated aluminum bed, and enclosure. After the initial setup I have not run into any issues beyond simple user error.

My last recommendation is not one of hardware but of software. I've been working with my Robo3D the longest and one of the best upgrades I've made was switching slicers. There are many free platforms available but I spent the money on Simplify3d and it is absolutely astounding.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I second this. Also, if you are interested in a more high-end resin printer, take a look at the Form Labs Form 2.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

Also on team Lulzbot here, we purchased a Taz5 in November and it's been a great addition to the team. Having used Makerbot and Ultimaker products, I can say that if I were spending another ~$2,000 on another printer, it would be one of the Lulzbot line (though I might wait for the Taz6)

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I will say be careful about SLA printers in an FRC enviroment.

Small particulate can mess up prints very easily.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

My school has a Makerbot Gen 5.
I've started referring to the extruders as "BIC disposable glue guns"
At last count, I've seen 5 broken beyond repair. They do a lot of printing, but they've only had it for a few months.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

We have the Makerbot replicator, Replicator 2x, and their scanner. They love to become jammed with their filament and not printing correctly. Now, when it does print it prints really well, but There are better printers, and I personally would not recommend them if you want something "hassle-free."

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

3005 has a couple Taz 5's that we've been pretty happy about (~$2200 retail)

They are open software/open hardware, and there are a lot of mods you can add on. If you are "printer enthusiast", you can really stretch the limits.

As mentioned earlier, the Lulzbot mini's will save you a chunk of change if you don't need the larger build volume. Realistically, very few parts we print require the extra build volume, it is more about being able to queue up ~4x the number of parts for an overnight print session (6x6 vs 12x12).

As the printer is open hardware, you can source the parts yourself and build from scratch to save ~40-50% if you want. I know I'll be building one for the house, as well as another mentor, over the summer.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

The Zortrax M200 is the best 3D printer I've ever used. https://www.3dhubs.com/3d-printers/zortrax-m200

(I've used a Taz 5, Ultimaker, 3D Systems Cube, Ecocycle, and a Dremel Ideabuilder)

You load up your 3D model into the software, make sure everything looks right. Save the file to a SD card and then pop it into the machine, select your file and then you can walk away. I've never had any trouble with failed prints on this machine after over 1500 hours of use. The printer prints all sorts of materials too.

If you want to compare 3D printer reviews use the 3D hubs guide. It's the most comprehensive guide I've seen online.
https://www.3dhubs.com/best-3d-printer-guide

Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

So it isn't just us.

I would steer clear of ANYTHING Makerbot. They used to make great machines aimed at hobbyist and makers, but ever since they were bought by Stratasys they're only interested in making as much money as they can selling trash machines. Once you buy Makerbot, you're locked into their proprietary ecosystem. Basic software with limited user customization, extremely expensive parts that commonly break, proprietary file formats, and more. As I said, they're only interested in selling a dumbed down machine with a limited feature set. Don't get me wrong, some of the earlier models such as the Replicator 1 are good, but anything after the Stratasys acquisition stay away from. Our school shop made the mistake of buying a fifth generation Replicator and the 3-D scanner. We've gone through one (soon to be two) extruders, the printer jams at least once every print, etc. And don't get me started about the scanner. It's a complete joke that, according to Makerbot support, "can only scan rounded objects". Same for 3D Systems, steer clear of them too.

Sorry for the rant, I want to make sure nobody makes the same mistake that we did.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

We have a Lulzbot TAZ 4. It has been good oberall, but not without its issues though. We replaced the glass bed with 1/4" cast aluminum after I broke the glass while removing a part. We upgraded the hot end this season to an E3D v5 (it was bought with the printer and never installed). The nozzle works great and I look forward to making nylon parts next season. Just a few weeks ago, one of the z axis drive screws came off the stepper motor and had to be realigned. I had to print a replacement extruder herringbone drive gear last season. If I had a guess, we have 400 hours on the TAZ. It has a great build volume and overall I would recommend it. It is an overall great printer and a lot of the components are 3D printed, which annoys me on a printer of that cost, but is also easy to repair given access to a working printer. Print spare extruder parts right away if you get one.

My OpenBeam Kossel Pro has been a champ for the past 15 months and has over 200 print hours on it. I spent a lot of time in the build making sure things went together perfectly. Something with the latest MatterControl build has rendered it non-operational, but it appears to be code added to the print sequence and not a control board issue. It does need a 32 bit control board since I should be able to print about 4-5x faster. While I love the printer, I'm torn on whether to recommend it based on your requirements.

I have heard good things about the MarkForged printer. It is a very capable printer and can print kevlar reinforced parts.

Most all printers are going to require some level of hassle and fine tuning. Sticking with open source will get you back up quicker and will probably be less expensive. Not to mention your students amd mentors can become experts and create modifications to improve the machines.

I would avoid Makerbot. I "consult" with my state libraries and they have had nothing but issues with them. Their Ultimaker v1s have been more reliable than the v2s.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...05&oe=57A1ED04

This might be looking into. It is a refurb of the Robo3D R1. There are a few FTC teams in Maryland that use these machines and I haven't heard much negative about it.


Just in case you want to purchase one on this deal:http://store.robo3d.com/products/r1-...first-robotics

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

The Lulzebot mini is a great option. it prints in high temp nylons and PET polymers which can actually stand up to the forces of competition, as well as printing normal prototyping plastics like pla and abs. For the slicer it users modified cura and it just work out of box.
https://www.lulzbot.com/

Another option if your willing to put down the money is the Zortrax M200, which is simply the best FDM printer on the market unless you go full industrial and buy a stsratasys model.

In terms of price/performance ratio, the Wanhao 13 is the strongest. IT is 400$ and with about an hour of set up it is the best quality printer I have ever used.
http://wanhaousa.com/products/duplicator-i3-steel-frame

https://zortrax.com/printers/zortrax-m200/::ouch::

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

The same printer is sold by Monoprice for $350 with a different logo.
Because of where I live, It was shipped to me overnight for free.
Monoprice has amazing customer support and even better prices.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13860

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I'm going team Lulzbot as well. My school has a number of 3D printers and I would say in terms of ease of use Dremel 3D printers are good for $1,000. But if you're willing to spend and extra ~$2,000 for a Lulzbot Mini or ~$4,000 for a TAZ you'll definitely get your money's worth. I have also used a Formlabs Form 1 and Form 2 and both although good have had rather high failure rates and other mechanical problems. So yes Lulzbot all the way. High print quality, variety of available filament, low failure rate, and really easy to use. Plus I've been to their factory/offices in Loveland, Colorado and they are AWESOME!:D

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

Thanks for all the great replies. It's good to hear such support for the Lulzbot printers. I was assuming we'd have to spend over $10K for a printer that would be hassle free.

To that end, are the Stratasys Dimension or Objet printers worth the money?

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I would send a PM to Evan Hochstein (ehochstein). He works at Stratasys and has a whole bunch of knowledge about all their printers. He's also on of the FIRST Senior Mentors for Minnesota and is a FIRST alum. Hopefully some people here can give you a good idea, but I'd definitely reach out to him.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I PM'ed him to see if he would like to drop in on this thread.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I would also recommend the Lulzbot Mini. I bought it from amazon and 2 days later I was printing - no hassles at all. I have used it with PLA and ABS. ABS was very good for low impact FRC parts this season.

Print volume was a bit of an issue for all of the pulleys I was making this season... I would recommend the Taz 5 if you have the budget... it has 4x the print area of the mini (6x6 vs 12x12).

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

FYI, the Taz 6 is available for preorder (ships later this month)

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

To that end, are the Stratasys Dimension or Objet printers worth the money?[/quote]

We have been using stratasys machines for over a decade. We have two uprints and now a Fortus.

The two uprints have made an enormous amount of FRC parts for our bots since 2010. Most are load bearing and we have had very little problems with the parts or the machines. We purchase an education package for materials that gives you a very good amount of materials I don't feel the prices are crazy. Yes is there cheaper alternatives, we have them and honestly they are not turn key. I do not have the time to baby sit prints. Our machines are truly lights out manufacturing.

We have also told our industry partners that we have the machines and offer to become a vendor for their prints and they pay for our material packages and my students get work experience helping prep, print and post process the parts.

If you want to know more let me know. We purchased our first Zcorp machine in the early 2000's not long after we made the switch to stratasys.

Team 207

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

This was just PM'ed to me. I asked the author if it was okay to repost it here because it has a lot of valuable input. They didn't want their name published though because they work for a Stratasys reseller.

Dale

------

Saw your thread about 3D printers and wanted to chime in. I work at a Stratasys reseller, and even though my job is not directly related to the printers I go out of my way to use them and learn as much about them as I can, so I have a fair amount of experience with them.

The Objet printers are straight-up amazing, but I can’t recommend any of them for an FRC-level project - they’re just too expensive. All the smaller units have serious limitations (number and types of materials) until you get to the Connex machines, and then you’re talking 100’s of thousands of dollars.

The Dimensions I’m somewhat torn on. They’re getting old, and the Fortus line is much more reliable. What I would recommend, though, is the uPrint: http://www.stratasys.com/3d-printers...ries/uprint-se. It’s a real workhorse - fast, simple, decent build size, very reliable, and MIGHT be within an FRC-range budget.

The Fortus printers are really top-notch. They have by far the least down-time of any printer in our lab, and consistently produce great parts, but they’re almost certainly out of an FRC team’s price range.

The higher up the line of printers you go, you also get better and better software for processing print jobs. The Mojo uses a program that gives little control past orientation and placement, but the Dimensions and uPrint use a program called Catalyst, which also lets you determine slice height and infill. The Fortus line gives you access to software called Insight, which gives full control over every contour and raster on every layer. However, the Objet lines uses software called Objet Studio, and it’s pretty poor.

I’ve worked a fair amount with hobby-level printers (Makerbot and the like) before working here and I own an old Printrbot, and it’s been eye-opening to see the difference in capability that crossing the ~10K threshold opens up. But nowadays that there are so many good options in the hobby-level space (like most of the recommendations in this thread) that I wouldn’t recommend any of the Stratasys machines beyond the Mojo and possibly uPrint to an FRC team.

Again, my job doesn’t work too directly with the printers, so this is just opinions what I’ve developed from using them whenever I get the chance - you should take it with a grain of salt. I didn’t want to post it publicly, but I figured it was worth sharing my experience with you directly. Evan Hochstein (mentioned in the thread) can probably give you much more accurate insight into the Stratasys world.

Thanks for starting this thread! I’ve learned a lot from people’s recommendations.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

The Lulzbot Taz one of the best ones out there hands down.

Our team won a grant for a Rostock Max V2 based on it being student built and maintained. It's got a huge print area and it's been pretty reliable but when something goes wrong it tends to get ugly.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I know there are lots of varied opinions on the Makerbot Replicators, but I would let you know that our experience with our Replicator 2 has been phenomenal. It has run tirelessly for two years since the moment we plugged it in, and has pumped out parts for hundreds of hours with never a breakdown, and virtually no troubles except those that were our own fault. We have done nothing but lubricate it, and it just runs and runs and puts out quality parts like the day it was new. Very simple to operate and many of our students operate it. I have read opinions that the newer Replicator generations are inferior to the Replicator 2. I would be open to believing that is true, as our Replicator 2 has been a very reliable workhorse.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

I've personally use a Rigidbot at home. I've used it on a few occasions at home for FRC related stuff. For example, i used it to create a simple radio mount before AndyMark released their version which was just mine, but better. It prints reasonably fast (~60-70 mm), and ever since I upgraded my extruder for about $200, it's not had any problems. I have the RigidBot 1, which was plagued with problems, but I know the Rigidbot 2, which is about the same price, is much better, and you shouldn't have to upgrade your extruder if you get one.

Re: Looking for a hassle-free 3D printer
 

The TAZ 6 is shipping now. It looks like just the ticket for our team if this review is accurate. Thanks for all your help. http://3dforged.com/lulzbot-taz-6-review/