Southern Championship math question
 

I looked for next years schedule, but couldn't find it. If I am counting on my fingers correctly, southern championship is week 8. Which means district championship cannot be on week 7, like this year for PCH (Georgia) was.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

That's my understanding as well. Districts champs will need to be week 6 for all southern championship teams in 2017.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Yeah, we discussed this at the lunch table one day that districts have to run weeks 1-5 so district champs can be week 6.

It's going to be interesting from a logistical challenge in the larger districts. In Minnesota it would move from potentially managing with 2 events per week to requiring 3 events per week. Meaning an extra field and set of FTAs/key volunteers are needed. Michigan and PNW may be in similar situations.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Alternatively, if the districts need to have their championships during Week 7, the districts could figure out travel arrangements for all the teams in their district who would qualify.

It's a really messy solution, logistically, but what if each district was able to make travel arrangements on behalf of teams. A district could theoretically have the ability to negotiate with travel companies on behalf of their groups, considering how large of a contract that would be.

Perhaps PCH could have booked out 14 buses and a block of rooms at championships, for example, and then the teams who qualified at their Week 7 Championship have their travel plans already accounted for by the district.

It obviously has numerous issues, like being potentially unable to account for the size of every team, and some teams may want to fly instead, etc.

Thoughts?

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

You would still have the logistical issue of getting your robot to champs. Even shipping on Monday, would be a priority (expensive) shipment to have to there by Wednesday mid day. Especially if you ship your pit as well.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

PNW is going to be hell. We are hosting the FTC super-regional next year, and that's going to take one of the weekends that would normally be district events. I don't know how we'll fit everything in.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

We already have *most* of the assets needed to run 4 districts a week... (the only issue is exhausting our dedicated volunteers)

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

The other issue is when Easter falls each year during that short District event window. Hard to staff and get participation that week.

Unless you add another entire field setup and have enough additional volunteers; the more likely scenario is a few less district events but with more teams at each one. PNW events are normally capped at 40, that would have grow some to fit in a shorter window.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

But if we needed to run all events in 5 weeks, we'd need 5 events one weekend (having 21 events). But Michigan is a Northern Champs event, so we don't need to do this.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

This is the issue I foresee with PCH District events.
Our volunteers are incredible, but this first year of districts definitely took a toll on some people's schedules and such. (That and the need to find more wonderful volunteers)

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

What if the Championship events become bag and tag events?

I don't have data on how many teams drive vs. fly, but if teams bring their robots with them shipping becomes a non-issue.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Not a good idea--on the southern side of things.

Just for Southern Championship:
Any team on the West Coast (and possibly the Rocky Mountains) is going to be flying. That's the entire PNW contingent, plus the 42+ from CA's 7 regionals, 6+ from Hawaii, 6+ from Vegas, and 12+ from Arizona's regionals. (Colorado, Utah, and Idaho teams are "on the border" as far as drive vs fly--they might go 50-50.)

Then you factor in the international teams (Australia and Israel with 6 each, plus possibly China with 6, and can't forget about Western Canada's 6 qualifiers). I haven't even gotten to the east coast but I'd be fairly certain some of those teams would fly (say, the South Florida contingent).

If you add up those best-guess numbers, about a quarter of the event is likely to fly (oh, and I'm not even counting the waitlist or HoF teams there, so make that at least a quarter). Teams that fly cannot bring their robot with them on the plane. They'll have to trailer and drive (1-2, maybe 3, long days, depending on distance), or just plain ship the robot. This is a significant portion of the field.

Also, if you eliminate shipping, the inspectors have to check all the bag forms. Guess what, you just added time to the inspection...


Northern Championship is a bit different. Most teams there are within about a day's drive by bus, I'd say--maybe a very long day--with the primary exceptions being New England and any European teams that qualify. I could see Northern Championship being bag-and-tag with a lot less difficulty than the Southern Championship.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

I feel as if a better way to make travel arrangements would be really helpful. Trying to book tickets and hotels (and for my team, organizing international flights too) are a nightmare, and it would be much cheaper and easier if it could be organized before the event. But how you would do it is a hard question, and particularly as most international events (like the Australia Regional), flights would need to be able to change their departure, making it effectively impossible.

For international teams who need it most, it's kinda impossible (:( ) But travel is obviously still a huge pain for every team, and organizing it for districts sounds possible, just hard. But it would probably be worth it.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

The last two seasons we had DCMP week 6 and this season we were able to accommodate everyone in 9 events. That switch was made to accommodate hosting the FTC Super Regional. So the only real change is that there is less time to make arrangements and get to CMP.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

So FIRST HQ blew it and had the wrong event first...

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

I imagine FIRST HQ looked at what weekends were available and choose based off that.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

North has most of the districts, and pushing the districts into fewer weeks is hard. Makes more sense to give North an extra week.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Agreed. To top that, the only district going to the Houston Championship that had a week 7 DCMP in 2016 is Peachtree, so there aren't even too many events that have to move.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

North Carolina doesn't count? Jeez... we get no respect.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Um....pretty sure you had a week 6 DCMP.....https://www.thebluealliance.com/events

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Well then I can't count... which actually explains a lot. ;)

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

As a counter, most teams that travel to FIRST Super Regional South (FSRS) have to fly, and now have one less week to book airfare, further increasing the cost for them to attend FSRS.

Most of those attending FSRN don't have to book airfare. Specifically, literally 25% of FSRN attendees live in the same state at their FSR from 2018-2020. This is not the case for FSRS.

Also, FSRS being Week 8 is just another bump in the long, 10+ year road to get California to Districts. Good times!

Question, will Peachtree District be pushing their DCMP to week 6 next year? Has it been discussed?

-Mike

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Feel free to come to North, we'd love to have you :)

Your point is a good one. Teams can reserve then cancel buses. Harder to do for flights. I think the increase in events per week has a bigger impact, but that's probably just personal bias. Michigan is probably 24 events next year, and a jump from 3.5 events/week (21 in 6) to 4.8 (24 in 5) would be rough.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Good point.

Pro's and Con's to both options.

Another thing to consider; FSRN is definitely going to be considered the real CMP for the next four years.

• One more week of iterations (two more weeks in 2019)
• FSRS to watch/study the week before
• Better districts/regional teams
• Less Waitlist Teams

I predict FSRN will have higher average scores in quals and stronger playoff alliances for 2017-2020.

We'd like to come to FSRN but I have a feeling that will be pretty difficult :(

-Mike

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Higher Qual scores, probably. Better playoffs alliances.....I think that's more division dependent and will fluctuate. Effectively, you're adding 25 teams to each division. How many of these teams make the playoffs? A few come to mind, but not much more than that.

I expect the level of eliminations play to be relatively the same this year as it was in 2015 and 2016, at least at the division finals level.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Yes, and no. We'll hopefully be able to have a full answer soon. We've also got the new FTC South Super-Regional as well in Georgia for 2017, so January - March is going to be interesting in getting all the events in.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

I think the PNW is also holding the West Super Regional this year, which might push their previously 6 week district schedule into a tight squeeze.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

I wouldn't be surprised to find more Oregon/Eastern WA teams going to West Valley next year. There was only 34 this year, and 2015 only had 28.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

It is not really an realistic option for PCH to stay at week 7. Robot shipping alone is bad enough. The initial qualifiers have until Tues to pay. Which means the teams that get the pass down slots will have to pay, ship their robots, find hotel rooms, and leave Tues night. We thought the 6 week build was high pressure. :) First wouldn't be able to assign PCH teams to fields and build the schedule until payment was confirmed. Which would be Tues afternoon at the earliest.

Week 7 is also Easter Weekend. While not an issue for some, It is a big issue for others.

I guess they could move PCH to 1/2 Championship North which is actually geographically closer, at least in 2017.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

Have any of the impacted districts considered "week 0.5" district events? This would be the weekend immediately after bag day.

Re: Southern Championship math question
 

The other Frank made it pretty clear last year that Palmetto (the week zero event) was an exceptional situation not likely to be repeated. Until the next exceptional situation comes along.