Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

It's official: Ontario is moving to the District Model for 2017!

https://www.facebook.com/FIRSTRoboti...7215547010163/

Our team received an email today with the announcement. We are excited... I think! :)

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

WOAH

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

+1

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

SO IT IS ACTUALLY FACTUAL INFORMATION?

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Yes, we are just processing it now too.

Key takeaways: looks like all the existing Ontario regional events will become District events, with a few new ones added. Since we went to two regionals (Greater Toronto Central and North Bay) it will feel very similar to go to two district events again.

The combined cost to attend two of these will be cheaper than it used to be to register for two Ontario regionals.

The new Ontario District Championship event will be held in Mississauga at the Hershey Center.

No more teams from out of province (who are not in Districts) :( Sorry Quebec and NY state.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Can Michigan come visit? :)

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Of course. Even better, Ontario teams can go back to Michigan for the first time since 2008!

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

What I want to know is if a team competes in their 2 district events (and district champs if applicable) could an ontario team go and compete at a regional (not district event) elsewhere. In the FAQ sent out, they said you can't ignore the district model and go off to regionals instead. But if we competed in our district events, could it be allowed?

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Under the district model, you can compete in outside regionals.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

District teams can do as many regional events as they want but they can not sign up for the events until they already signed up for their two district events. Its somewhat common for teams to do a single travel regional along with their 2 district events and DCMP.

The closest regionals for Ontario teams are going to be Ohio and NY events. There is also most likely still going to be a Montreal regional.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

My read of the FAQ is yes, after you've done the two district events, you can go to a regional.

From Q14: "Ontario teams will be allowed to register in a Regional event after registering for their initial 2 District events first if they choose."

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Are Canadian secondary schools generally smaller than American high schools? Interesting that all of the district venues are colleges or universities.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I'm amped up about this possibility. We enjoyed partnering with 1241 when they came to the Girls' Competition a couple years back. Looking forward to being able to play with more Canadian teams here in Michigan. With the lower cost, we might even be able to reasonably travel (to Windsor at least).

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

This is awesome news.
Can't wait to see it's implementation during competition season.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Here in the region I'm in (halton region, just a little west of Toronto) we only have one school that could host such an event comfortably. The rest are too small IMO. The local colleges and universities offer a much more comfortable venue.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Yup, In the GTA at least if your school has more than one gymnasium or a pool it is considered to be a huge school. Most public schools aren't setup to handle a sports event attended by more than a handful of people. IRI's venue was the biggest high school I had ever seen by far.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Absolutely. Obviously this is going to vary somewhat by region and there are a handful of outliers, but it is generally true. In particular, we don't put as much emphasis on our athletic facilities, which means that many high school gyms only have a seating capacity of perhaps 500 or so. A single high school in my area has a gym designed for almost 2000 people (in a single-court basketball configuration), and that's a huge rarity in the province.

Ontario regionals have always been at these University venues, so it makes sense to maintain them in the district system since they will likely be the same size of event in terms of number of teams. The alternative is cramming smaller events into high schools, which is technically possible, but not as comfortable. As was mentioned in the announcement, a challenge will be to maintain the regional quality on a smaller budget, but I'm confident that FIRST Canada will sort it all out.

As an aside, I'm thrilled that McMaster University (just down the street from our school) will be hosting! I know a lot of people worked for a very long time to bring that to fruition, and they did a great job!

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Maybe. Very few open spots were available this past year for MI teams to get a 3rd event. I'm curious how this will be handled. With how FiM is run I would imagine MI teams would be given the priority.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I'm sure NE would welcome some visitors from the north as well.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

NY is perfectly ok with this :p

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Speak for yourself, we just lost half of our regionals within a decent driving distance.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Just another reason to go to districts. :o

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

To be fair, our closest regional is still about a 3 hour drive. But districts are such a better system. It's tough knowing how good they are first hand and then having to go back to districts. That being said I don't really know what obstacles are in the way for a NY district so I shouldn't complain too much.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

We enjoyed playing with you at North Bay. We'll miss you.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Does FIRST Canada have any existing RD's going into this transition?

If so, what role will those individuals have in the new District format?

-Mike

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

WTB California Districts plz! Maybe add in some surrounding states.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

One day...

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

New York teams looking for regionals:

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Well the good news is, it is somewhat confirmed NY is hosting 5 regionals next year instead of 4.

The bad news is NY is hosting regionals.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

This is great news! The McMaster event will definitely bring travel costs down. So much so, maybe we can think about a third event or regional. I'm also looking forward to bringing Hamilton sponsors to the big show. We should be able to have students volunteer at the event too.

Does anyone know if FIRST Canada running the show at all events, or have they recruited some new regional directors? (edit: what Michael said)

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Based on emails I have gotten from RD's in CA, that day is very far away.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Guess we have to push even harder.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

We will. We always enjoy visits from Canadian teams!

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Look, it's Robo-Sysiphus!

I hope California's transition to districts will be easier than this.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

If Indiana districts weren't as likely to keep me busy next season, I'd be tempted to pay one of them a visit. Now that I have a career that sends me to London, ON on a semi-regular basis, I have a passport so I can go past the border.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Don't push. Pull. Lead from the front. If you want your region to "go districts", help to make everything ready, and make it inviting enough for it to happen easily.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Way easier said then done, especially with all the politics that play into FIRST CA.
"Leading" the district push is great but nearly impossible when other people demand the reigns.

With that said I don't want to take away from the OP.
I'm very excited that Ontario is going to districts!!

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

We're... cautiously excited? :p

I know feedback has been positive from all the areas that have gone to districts. A lot of it sounds good on paper. Cheaper fees. (And fees in Canadian dollars will help a lot with currency fluctuations.) Same great regionals that we know and love plus a few more. Personally I'm hoping for a new district event closer to Kingston or Ottawa... :)

District Championships can be seen as an added "hurdle" between here and Worlds, but at the same time, being able to say "We made it to the provincials!" isn't anything to sneeze at either.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I had a chance to dig a bit through the numbers last night and I'm thrilled at the deal Ontario teams will be getting on registration through the new district system. Look at this comparison of costs taken from the Ontario District Announcement FAQ. As stated in the document these costs for 2017 are just projections at the moment, with exact details and invoices coming out in November. All prices are below are in Canadian Dollars based off today's USD-CAD exchange rate of 1.28.



For a team who currently goes to two events, there's an instant savings of over $4000.00 CAD. That savings increases further if you compare the cost of attending 3 Regionals vs 2 Districts and the discounted District Championship. Teams will be having a lot of money put right back into their pockets to start the season.

For years teams have been pushing for this transition to districts in order to take advantage of these savings. Now that FIRST Canada has made the jump it's up to the teams to give back and help make this happen. This transition to districts will need a huge new influx of volunteers. Going from 5 to 9 or 10 events next season will be a big change. This can't happen unless Ontario teams step up and provide/recruit more volunteers to make this new format success. So if you're on an Ontario team, please consider signing up on VIMS to be volunteer for next season. Heck, sign up for one of the three off-season events happening this fall to get trained and to meet the people you'll be working with. Let's give back to our community so we can lead FRC in Ontario into the future.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Good luck getting into a Michigan event. They barely have enough spots for their own teams every year.

That's a great problem for them to have.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

In Indiana basketball is the high school sport. We have the majority of the largest gyms in the country (seating wise.) Also large indoor facilities do to weather.

If you want to see a big school, drive on down to Warren Central, south of Lawrence North, where we have more that a million square feet under roof.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Basically this, Gail has been prodding us for a few years now to host a second district and/or find another suitable venue for an additional district competition in our area because of the lack of available slots in the state (possibly getting worse this coming year as there may be one or two districts that stop being hosted from what I hear).

If I'm not mistaken, there were something like less than 10 slots left over this year after initial registration for teams that wanted a 3rd event or coming from out of state.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

If so come to the west Michigan district what FIM considers there premiere district of all of FIM

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

If you want to see a big school go look at team 5417's school. Its a short drive down to Allen Texas but that Football stadium is probably bigger then most of our team's schools.

http://www.pogueconstruction.com/wp-...-Stadium-1.jpg

Oh yea Ontario Districts whoops.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I'm sorry... that's a school?! Here in ontario I'd consider that a major stadium where the "pros" play. Never in a million years could I see a public school getting that kind of facility/funding up here.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Don't worry, you're not the only one who thinks it's ludicrous.

Ontario districts are gonna be awesome, especially district champs. If it's week 7, I'll have to try and find a way up there to volunteer.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

What are District Championships like?

Are they anything like Worlds? Do they have any kind of seminars, workshops, or anything above and beyond what a normal regional event would have?

(And if not, could they?)

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

That depends entirely on the district. There's very little standardization from FIRST with regards to managing the DCMPs. FiM champs does have team-run seminars. New England champs has a very high production value. MAR champs is a budget-driven event that is aesthetically and functionally just a larger district qualifier event.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

This is a subtle, but very important set of questions to have an answer to.

RD's do not necessarily have the same objectives as teams when it comes to event planning, so I am interested to hear how this conflict of interests is handled in regions that are able to make the switch to districts.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I think we just got really lucky here-

The AV company that does all the NE events is owned and operated by FRC alumni. As I like to say- "they get it."

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Citation needed.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

How does the team in Thunder Bay, ON, (4732) feel about the transition? It's a 12-hour drive or couple hour flight to the nearest event (North Bay). Two events will be a step up from their usual of attending only one Toronto-area regional.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

As much as I think the move to the district model is great, with lower prices and all that, I'm going to miss competing with teams from far away at the Waterloo Regional (only a 5 minute drive from my team's high school!). Being on an alliance with 148 this year was absolutely incredible. Plus, even though I wasn't on the team in 2014, just seeing 254 at that year's WR was wicked cool.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Need a citation. I would argue that Waterford and Troy would be better contenders for the premier district. Anyways 1114 already prototypes in Troy :p

^This might actually become reality.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

We're at the tipping point where you don't lose all that much potential for diversity by going to districts. For example, Texas is considering going district, so 148 or 118 could still come to Canada, and it would actually be cheaper for them than it was before.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

If you are a team in a district system, get at least one mentor to be a robot inspector! You'll only be really needed on Day Zero to get through initial inspections, and everyone will thank you.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

We're quite concerned right now. It's a fifteen hour drive to send the robot down unless we were to ship it in a crate. Having to go to two events would be a logistical and budgetary nightmare for us. We're trying to go to the Northern Lights Regional next year instead of down to GTRE, like we did this year.

I'm also worried for team 4704 (Timmins), which I assume would have an even harder time raising the funds to do districts.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

That really depends on how many open spots are left. For most districts, they pick the lowest number of events required to support two plays for their district teams. That leaves few spots for third plays. Given the scheduling for registering for 3rd plays, very few spots are available for inter-district play.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Not really knowing how rural Timmins is: they have events about 4 and 8 hours away (according to Google Maps). When Michigan went districts, our closest events were about 8 and 10 hours away (now down to ~3 and ~5.5). So it's not the worst drive, but it does raise their travel costs.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

If Michigan Districts fill up, there are usually a few open slots down in Indiana. Not as close as Michigan, but it's only one state further south.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

That is a down side of having illogical district boundaries. For the past two years BC teams have had to compete in Calgary, rather than in the PNW district event taking place about one hour's drive south of them in Washington state.

To add to the irony, Alaska is able to send teams to PNW district events, meaning that Vancouver teams are surrounded by a district they cannot (at present) join.

Nothing against the Calgary regional (both teams had a great time there), but it makes poor environmental and economic logic to drive over 12 hours to get to an event when you have events one hour and three hours drive from your school.

Knowing several key people involved in both Ontario and PNW, I have faith that over time they will be able to make districts work out really well for ALL the teams... not just the 95% of teams that currently see a huge benefit from the district model.

Congratulations to Ontario on going district. I've been volunteering in the PNW for a few years now, and while I'm blown away by the commitment of the key volunteers, it has been great for the teams that can take part in it.

Jason

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I am very excited to hear Ontario is making the transition.

Some tips:

1. Have at least 1 mentor or former student from your team sign up to be an inspector. Commitments for inspecting can be relatively light, and a lot of inspectors make light work. Students heavily involved in build (typically electrical or mechanical) tend to work out well.
2. Refs are also typically of high demand. I will not pretend I know what it takes, but I know a lot of former students a couple years out of the program tend to do a good job for us in Michigan. This is a higher pressure role than inspecting. I have heard former competition team students do well in this role as long as they do not hold grudges.
3. Try to get parents involved with some of the other non-key volunteer roles for events. I smile every year that I see one parent of students that graduated in 2009 still helping with scoring table at a couple events each year.
4. Talk with your sponsors about whether or not they could spare someone for Judging.


For many regions, the switch to District system can be a great spur for growth. Keep this in mind and have key volunteers look for other prospects to help in their roles for future years.

Congratulations again. The first year can be very scary and will be a lot of hard work, but once you have completed a District Championship, it is hard to imagine going back.

Hopefully I will see a couple teams from Canada next year at my Michigan events.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Yes they attract a lot of competitive teams but west michigan(gvsu event) it has been around since 2003 and has been held every year since then Waterford started in 201 and troy since 2009 I think it's save to say that west Michigan is the premiere district of "FIM"

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I am not sure why FIRST is obsessed with geographic boarders. This was solved in high school sports a long time ago. There are several California high schools that compete in Nevada athletic leagues for this very reason.

I think teams should be able to request to join a district.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Won't this become a moot point if/when all regions go to districts? Given that we've been talking about Ontario teams going to Michigan, does that imply that once you're in the districts system, you can just ask to play with a different district? Or must you compete in your home district before going to visit another?

It's the teams that are in the district system that cannot request to go to a traditional regional instead, and vice versa.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

It is my understanding that it is the other way around. A District team can attend a Regional, including advancing directly to World Championships with either Winning (or generated Wildcard) or earning an advancing award (Chairman's, EI, RAS).

As far as I know, Regional teams cannot in any way compete at a District event.


I am far removed from being in a District area though, do I have this wrong in my mind?

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

My understanding is that district teams can attend a regional after attending their district events, but cannot choose to play at a regional instead of going to district events.

Edit: :s/attend/register

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

The way it has been in the past and I expect it to continue going forward is they can register for a regional after registering for their two districts, the chronological order of their regional and districts does not matter.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

The "instead" part would be correct. If you are in Districts, your initial Registration Window is for Districts and then you can later register for any open slots in Regionals. I don't believe there is a limitation on what competition weeks the Regionals can be though, just that you are not able to register for them until I believe the 3rd Event Regional Registration Window opens, basically after Regional teams have had their chance to choose their first and second events. You can play in a Regional before your second District event week though (otherwise District teams could never play a Week 1 or 2 Regional).

edit: Like rtfgnow mentioned, I'm typing based on rules through the 2016 season...things could change for 2017.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Thanks guys, distinction noted between registering for events and actually attending them :D

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

For the California Tahoe area high schools like Truckee, they are in the Nevada Interscholastic Activities Association. So for Truckee football, they have played a championship game in Reno, Nevada. This is an examples of how population densities don't follow state borders and that borders can split a population.

So in the application for a FIRST team, it would mean that if a team gets the first choice on their preferred local district event and the benefits of a more local district championship. The key point is to give a mechanism to help team get to their local events irregardless of their state boarder. I am proposing that an out of district team has another option to having to find an open slot. They would apply to join a district and thus count toward district population for event planning and are part of the district and thus entitled to all those benefits. Of course, an application can be denied.

So for those BC schools, I think they should be able to apply to join PNW if they want to and PNW can decide if they can join or not.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I'll take this one.

Yes, referees always seem to be in high demand. As Ike said, alumni are a great resource to pull from. Speaking as an alum turned referee (turned unofficial referee recruiter and trainer), it's great to have people familiar with how FRC games typically work transition to reffing. It's much easier to train them than, say, a parent from a team.

I've noticed the "best" alumni referees seem to have either been on drive team or the head scouts on their former teams. These are the positions that usually know the games and rules the best.

It's a high pressure job, but you also get the "best seat in the house" as one of my former head referees used to say. I highly recommend it for alumni who want to remain involved in first without necessarily mentoring a team.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Ditto this. The other good element for a ref is practice at offseasons. It'll at least give you a feel for how the game is played as a ref, even though it'll change before the next year.

As far as "in high demand"... can I double that? I'd like to not end up in stripes at 4 events again next year (two of them I wasn't planning on that...). (Though I've got a funny feeling that I'll be recruited to do just that...)

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I couldn't agree more. As a member of MAR, the one district with a non-state-line boundary, I've seen that logically grouping teams can be much more effective than state lines. For the most part, New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania form a pretty continuous cluster of teams that doesn't really leave out any nearby groupings of teams (aside from NYC, which makes more sense to be a separate district due to the transportation challenges presented to NYC teams). The western boundary of MAR is not a state line, but it's a line that makes sense.

(And I'd hate to play without our Pennsylvania friends.)

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I would also like to know if Ontario is also moving to 2 day events (with unbag time), or will they remain 3 day events?

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I would presume 2 day events, like every other district.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

District events are two day events. It's part of what keeps district event costs low. The larger District Championships, which would almost certainly include the 60 team ONCMP, are three day events.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Just to be clear to those unfamiliar with districts, while most of us do call District Events "2-day events", there's almost always a third load-in and set-up day beforehand where you can unbag, work on, and practice with your robot (at least in MAR). For the Mt. Olive MAR District Event for example, which many call a "Saturday-Sunday event", pits open at 4pm on the Friday before, with the inspection station opening at 5:30pm and practice matches running from 6pm to 9pm.

As Brian mentioned, some (see stipulations in posts below) District Championships run similar to a normal 3-day regional with a full practice day, depending on the district. Here's the 2016 MAR DCMP schedule. Note that yes, we did begin Qualification Matches on Thursday of District Champs. That was...interesting.

Do you still get unbag time before attending district champs?

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

No, the 6-hours of unbag time is only for District Events, not District Championships.

EDIT:The 6-hours of unbag time is only valid for 2-day events. As Wil pointed out below, there are some 2-day DCMPs, meaning that qualified teams do receive 6-hours of unbag time beforehand. So, it depends on what district system you are in. TIL.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

3-Day DCMPs are a hybrid of district events and regional events where you have a tools-on Day Zero for inspections and Day One has a full slate of practice matches until lunch, then it rolls in to qualification rounds.

3-Day DCMPs, however, are not allotted bag time since it is a three day event (even though Day 1 has quals... still haven't figured that one out yet).

2-Day DCMPs for the smaller single-state district systems do have bag time, as they are pretty much a district event invitational in terms of size and execution. PCH might have had to deal with some special rules w/r/t venue requests but I think it's all the same.

I expect Ontario to operate with a 3-Day DCMP with around ~60 invited teams.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

The unbag time is allowed before two day events to make up for the lack of time to work on the robot at a practice day. This is why there is no unbag time before a three-day District Championship, which has a practice day.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

From the "FAQ Regarding the Ontario FIRST Robotics Competition District Transition"

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

How does the 30lb out of bag limit work with the 2 day events? What would stop a team from making, say a 35lb mechanism that they attatched during their 6 hours of open bag time prior to the event, and then resealing the bag and going to competition? Is this an honours system where competitors aren't to add more than 30lbs, or perhaps another advantage to the district model?

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

R18 defines this very clearly. In terms of enforcement, it is the honor system. Note the last line in the second paragraph of the rule, if you fabricate something during the six hours, it does not count towards your withholding allowance. That combined with some other tricks (such as removing motors from assemblies to return them to their COTS state and putting them back on at the competition) means that you can rebuild a pretty significant amount of your robot between events.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Teams previously attending one nearby regional will now need to attend two district events just to qualify for regionals. With TDSB covering the cost of registration for one event in previous years, this means that teams who used to pay $0 to register will now pay $2500 just to participate. Add to this the extra time, planning and cost involved in having to attend at least one out of city two day event. If we qualify for regionals that's another $1500 of non-TDSB reimbursed funds and another out of town 3 day event. Now let's imagine qualifying for St. Louis.

This new system is essentially squeezing out small, but currently sustainable teams in favor of big budget, mentor heavy teams that already have robust programs. The only advantage I can see here is more rounds of play for better value. The trade off is taking away the entire FIRST experience from smaller scale teams. We were alliance captains and semi-finalists this year. Next year, I am nearly certain that our team must fold. This is deeply disappointing.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Can you breakdown your numbers? I'm not following.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

OK, I'm not following these numbers either. We're not in the TDSB, but if they paid the full cost of your first regional last year, they would have given FIRST 6500 CAD to cover the 5000 USD registration. That is still less than the 7500 new fee, but it's not as drastic as you suggested. I would be shocked if the TDSB didn't amend its donations for 2017, if their goal is to make it painless for teams to participate.

As for the cost of third event (district champs / worlds) - your own chart shows it's cheaper than a second or third event under the old system, it's entirely optional, and at minimum you're getting more competition time for the same money. What's not to like?

The only scenario where the price is higher in the new system would be if you only wanted to go to one event, and then go to worlds. That's a very lucky thing to plan for. In the new system you've got a very good chance of attending three events for the same price as the above scenario, including a very nice culminating event in a venue that's much cheaper to travel to.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

On the other hand, teams Toronto have been extremely fortunate to have such an arrangement with TDSB. I have really enjoyed meeting with all of the Toronto area teams and I hope that one day Ottawa will have just as many up and coming young teams. But out here we get no funding assistance from our school boards and without the momentum of having FIRST already established in the region, many FRC teams in Ottawa struggle to find sponsors too. You could count the number of active Ottawa area FRC teams on one hand, and for each of those, I can name you another team that used to run but either had to fold or switched to VEX.

Teams that formerly had to scrape together $5000USD just to go to one regional may have to work a little bit harder to get to $7500 Cdn but for that money will be able to attend two events. More value for the money and I would argue a better educational experience than just going to one competition, as you get to do the cycle of compete-iterate-improve.

And while the current and new district events are still all GTA centered, I am hoping that eventually there may be enough growth out this way that a district event in Ottawa or Kingston might be considered.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

I'm still reading about the District model but one of my main questions is;
How do you qualify for worlds.

I reading about wining points for each of the two district events then the highest teams go to a district championship. So does that mean only the winning alliance at the district champs get to go to the world champs?

What about the winning alliance at each district event, wild card slots and the list goes on?

Is there a more simple explanation somewhere as what will qualify a team for worlds?

Just as I had the regional model figured out something new. Time to learn some more.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Individual district events do not qualify teams for Champs. Their purpose is to award district points to teams. The top teams in the district based on the total points earned at their first two events in the district, and district event Chairman's winners, will advance to the District Championship. Here, points are awarded using the same criteria as district events, but with a multiplier of 3. This places a great emphasis on the District Championship.

Your district will receive an allocation of CMP slots proportional to the percentage of FRC teams that are in your district, though pre-qualified (Hall of Fame, Legacy, previous year CMP Winners/EI) teams do not count toward or against this allocation. Teams earn these spots by:

• Winning District Championship (3 or 4)
• District Championship Chairman's Award (1-3)
• District Championship Engineering Inspiration Award (1-3)
• District Championship Rookie All Star (1)
• Qualifying at a regional (which does count against the district allocation)

This will not take up all the spots. The remaining spots are given to the top ranked teams by district points. There are no wildcards per-se, but any team who qualifies through multiple Regional/DCMP qualifying awards will convert the extra to another points slot. Any team who qualifies for Champs within the district and declines will create a new points slot.

For additional info, see Section 7.4 of the Admin Manual.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

There is little complexity to the numbers.

Previous years in TDSB = $0 for regional (which is local for all TDSB schools)

Now = $7500 - $5000 covered by TDSB = $2500 to qualify for regionals
This includes a trip out of town (busing + hotel)

If we qualify for regionals that's $3000 - $1500 covered by TDSB = $1500

That's $4000 plus two out of town events
(To be clear the numbers covered by TDSB were sent to team mentors with the announcement of moving to the district model)

The bar is raised significantly higher for Toronto teams to participate. If teams think this will lead to program growth, I can't imagine how.
Teams in areas outside of Toronto that struggle to attend one event will surely not be able to pay more and go to three.

More plays for better value vs more small scale and new teams participating... Seems like a no brainer trade off to me.

For the record, we were regional semi finalists this year who may be priced out of FIRST for next year.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

When you say regionals, do you mean the District Championship?

Is $2500 a prohibitive amount to fund raise?

Is it possible that TDSB could increase their payment to cover the new base registration once they're made aware that is now the new minimum fee?

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Remember that Karthiks numbers are in CAD. If we were still in the regional system the TDSB would have to pay out 6400 CAD to each team for registration. The additional cost is only 1100 CAD (roughly) for tons of additional value. As a fellow TDSB team I'd expect that TDSB would step up there contribution. FIRST Canada and the TDSB have a strong relationship and it has likely already been discussed.

The fact of the matter is that the TDSBs contribution is already very generous and we are already very lucky to receive any money at all. Very few school districts offer similar support.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Prepare to be as shocked as I was then. TDSB is providing $5000 CAD for the district events and $1500 for regionals.

We don't consider it a "lucky thing" to plan to go to one regional, we consider it a sustainable financial and time commitment and it has enriched our school tremendously.

Attending 3 events likely means the death of our program. I am scrambling to keep my program alive that I have poured my heart into for our two year existence.

Wealthy teams with lots of mentors that already go to many events will enjoy a savings of a few thousand dollars. I would rather see less matches accommodating more teams, rather than more matches that fewer teams can afford and get to.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

What am I missing, why not just attend two district events then?

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

We are very grateful to the TDSB. We owe our existence to them as do many teams. Our existence with their generosity was possible. That is likely not the case anymore. Even with their generous donations we are now priced out of this phenomenal program. I am sure that students will benefit from more competition events. The trade off is added cost and time that many will not be able to afford. It is a trade off of course. My values lean toward less cost and more participants over more cost for more game time.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

You are suggesting that we pay an additional $2500 plus the cost of travel and hotel and if we qualify for regionals we simply say no and end our season?

Possible, but not as easy a sell as you imply.

I also just read your other post, and it is surprising to me that you don't think $2500 is a prohibitive amount to raise on top of our operating costs. It is as if you ignored the fact too that we are talking about $4000 of added cost just to participate plus the added cost of travel and hotels. So yes, it is prohibitive. You may also be interested to know that this would be our 3rd season meaning that it is the first year that our rookie grant money expires. We made a sustainable fundraising plan for an annual budget of roughly $2500. That would have been enough to play at one Toronto regional with the gracious support of the TDSB. If we qualified for St. Louis, we would have had to earn our way there.

Re: Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017
 

Out of curiosity, what would you have done if you qualified for World CMP in 2016? Would you attend?