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-   -   New Submission Format for Chairman's Award (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14905)

Gope 27-10-2002 23:01

FIRST Mistakes
 
One great thing about the FIRST organization is that they listen to our voice. If they do this this year and we do not like it then they will change it the next year. They did this 2 years ago when the game was team vrs time instead of team vrs team, we complained, and they fixed it. So if the idea does turn out to be a bad one, I am confidant that it will be fixed.

Shelley_delphi chick 27-10-2002 23:05

Shakes Head.......
 
I'm in uter shock at what FIRST has thrown our way once again. I understand that the economy is suffering and everything else, but still you don't have to take our crative spirit away. Do they know what we put into our submissions, do they know the hours and dedication, and do they know how much fun and enjoyment it is to show people what you've created. The chairman's award has been my main focus in this program since my sophmore year when taking over the AV Photo Team. Last year our team put together a high quality submission and I disagree with the whole hollywood aspect, rookie teams may have trouble with the whole finding things to put in this award but don't hate on the people that spend hours in a closet and never see light till it's finished. I can personally say we handed in a professional looking submission and it was done by two juniors and two freshman. Adding your own special touches is what makes it special. Now we have to dela with how our english is and are we using what we slept through in english to convey what impact our team has brought about. I mean you coudl do like a scrap book and change colors and add pictures and so on and so forth, but that is like telling telling a person that has been on a new computer they have to type with a type writer. I agree with the whole stepping backwards with technology. My high school just recieved a grant to add new computer and primier and adobe photo shop to our tv station. I'm just very suprised that FIRST would throw this curve ball, but just like everything else they throw our way we accept it eventually and make the best outta it. Everyone will figure something out including my team and it might turn out better then anyone would've ever expected!!

Mike Schroeder 28-10-2002 00:19

My opinion on this is,
 
it is amazing how most teams take the time and money and effort into producing these presentations.

I didn't know i joined the hollywood film makers club!


ok team 25 had a really nice project we were almost done with but o well.

some of the verteran teams seem to be able to make these great, but what about team 1,0-somthing that is more worried about whether or not they can attend a competiton let alone enter a state-of-the-art chairmans submission.

this award isnt about who has accsess to the better technology for example:

shelley your team just got more equipment in your schools TV studio, one question: how many other teams' schools have a televison studio.

this new format is giving equal opportunity for each team to make a presentation about how FIRST has impacted your team, school, or comunitity, not about who spent the most time and effort to make a 10 min long story on teams' history



Matt Leese 28-10-2002 00:19

I don't think the changing of the Chairman's Award has much to do with judge's time. I'm not sure what reasons FIRST gave in their letter but my guess is that FIRST wants to encourage more teams to submit a Chairman's Award. Usually, building a robot and submitting a Chairman's Award submission is a daunting task. One that many smaller teams really can't do. In the past its taken a lot of work as most Chairman's Awards took the form of videos which required both a lot of videotaping as well as post production. However, by changing the Chairman's Award to merely be four sides of paper, it allows many more teams to submit the Chairman's Award. While this may be distressing to many teams that have submitted before, in the long run it will encourage more teams to take the time to sumbit a Chairman's Award submission.

Matt

Shelley_delphi chick 28-10-2002 07:30

Money.....who has money?
 
Just outta curiosity what team or school has the money to have state of the art equipment. I go to an inner city school where the drop out rate is over half by senior year. Our high school is old and wearing down. We don't have lunch anymore because there were too many fights and people skipping school. Most other school districts around us think we are the scum of Ohio. Like I said we are an "inner city' (need I say more....okay I'm saying more "ghttoness isn't even a word to describe the school I go to." When I have to leave class five minutes early because I suffered a concussion because some big "not of white colored person" was acting a fool and running through the hall and knocked me clear across the hallway and head first into a wooden showcase. Now does this seriously sound like a school with money?? For as much as we have to offer at our school, it's overshadowed by the city and the reputation that we have. FIRST is the only thing that keeps some kids in our school in school, otherwise they would be the half that doesn't graduate. We only got the equipment because we are a poor inner city school and our teachers and principals write grants out on a weekly basis trying to get us more money to do things with. So, please don't stereotype that we have money when in all respect we have very little.


Next..... I agree that maybe more teams would be willing to sit down and take the time to submit something for the award. I just think that in words they can make themselves more appealing then actually showing your robot out throwing the first pitch at a baseball game, showing your robot in the regional chamber of congress, showing your robot in city parades, and showing the kids faces that you go and take your robot to show them what they have to look forward to in the future. I'm blowing off steam because I know what I personally put into the chairman's award and this year I feel my strengths aren't in English and I'm not a very creative person with words. Give me a video project and I'm there with many idea's. I guess my English teacher and I will be spending many hours together. Wait, does this mean I won't be in the closet the whole season.... ::grins ear to ear::.....I can be build team captain!! Score!! I'm all over that!!

ChrisH 28-10-2002 09:20

We are a small team from a smaller school. Many of the teams you guys are on are bigger than our entire high school. Our school's facilities, those that we don't have to remove everything from when we leave, consist of a single office with two desks. Most of you are in graduating classes that are larger than our entire school, and we go K-12.

In previous years, we have submitted Chairman's Award entries because they were a contractual requirement from one of our sponsors, not because we thought we had the slightest chance of winning. Last year there was a contractual screw-up and we did not have to submit. What a relief!. Unfortunately, I think the sponsor will make sure that does not happen again, one way or another.

I think it is great that they are scaling it back. I think it kind of misses the point when to be competitive a team has to have a sub-team the size of our whole team doing just the Chairman's award. Restrictions also force you to be more creative. I expect to see much more in the way of material restrictions this year, just based on this. If the rules don't pinch, they're not doing their job.

We are a good team, that I feel embodies the spirit of FIRST as much as anybody. We do all the same things other teams do but, like every one else, we have limited resources. We prefer to apply them to things that will gain something for the team and our community. Not spending hundreds of hours producing something that basically pats ourselves on the back in front of the judges.

Besides, in my experience, the award is based mostly on quantity of quality effort. Meaning there is no way a team of 10 can compete with a team of 40, even if they are of equal dedication to the ideals of FIRST. The judges, being primarily CEOs or other management types, tend to look at quantity more than quality.

If you have put in a lot of effort already this year I'm sorry. But you can take valuable stuff away from what you've done. If you're doing it right, your script or whatever you are working to, has the gist of the information you were trying to convey. You will just need to distill it further or present it in a different way.

The other thing this will teach you is not to get too attached to stuff before the real rules come out. Because after all, this is FIRST. Changing the rules is a way of life here. If you don't like it, go do BattleBots or something else where the game is always the same. It may be more comfortable, but not nearly as representative of life.

Redhead Jokes 28-10-2002 09:49

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisH
The other thing this will teach you is not to get too attached to stuff before the real rules come out. Because after all, this is FIRST. Changing the rules is a way of life here. If you don't like it, go do BattleBots or something else where the game is always the same. It may be more comfortable, but not nearly as representative of life.
:D Ain't that the truth.
Hi neighbor!

Jnadke 28-10-2002 10:17

By putting something into video, you are making it glamorous. When it is text, the judges can see it right there, they have what you accomplished in words. Four pages is a lot, actually. You can put a lot of text and a lot of pictures on there.

It also eliminates copyright issues because a lot of teams like to put songs in their videos, many of which they don't have the copyrights to.

As Krass said, it "levels the playing field" so to speak. All teams have an equal opportunity, without any bias by the judges.

People that are arguing for video editing, answer this...
If it takes you 10... 20... maybe 30 hours to create this video, then what are you doing for the community???? 30 hours is a lot of time... isn't it better spent helping the community? Furthering your chances for the chairmans award??

Redhead Jokes 28-10-2002 10:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Jnadke

People that are arguing for video editing, answer this...
If it takes you 10... 20... maybe 30 hours to create this video, then what are you doing for the community???? 30 hours is a lot of time... isn't it better spent helping the community? ??

For us working towards a chairman's award accomplished the obvious - focusing the team on what's great about our team, where we need to put more effort in, getting the word out to the public about our team...

Working towards making a video was bringing some fun into the effort, discovering team members' talents we didn't know they had, drawing in school community's help to make thus educating them about what we do, giving tech whiz's an opportunity to learn something new, and tech beginners something to be excited about.

I say make the chairman's award a level playing field with the 4 pieces of paper, and have an award for the best video that can be used to spread the word about FIRST and your team in your community.

ChrisH 28-10-2002 12:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Redhead Jokes

I say make the chairman's award a level playing field with the 4 pieces of paper, and have an award for the best video that can be used to spread the word about FIRST and your team in your community.

Hi Back, Neighbor!

I agree. I have no problem with teams putting videos or other promos together using whatever resources they have available. I think it should be encouraged and a separate award would do that nicely. (Sponsor suggestions anyone? Spielberg maybe?)

But it seems to me that when you have a multi-person sub team whose whole focus is on the Chairman's award and nothing else, that maybe somebody is missing the point. The focus should not be getting kids excited about winning an award or putting together a video. There's nothing wrong with it, but there are other venues for it. The focus is on getting kids excited about technology and giving them a sense that "I can do that".

Some might say "but what about the animation competition?" If you read the rules on the animation competition, the focus is on helping your team visualize their robot concept and how it might work. Cuteness counts a little, but accurate representation counts much more.

Accurate visualizations help refine the final product and contribute to the goals of the program. We use them in my job at all levels, from the CAD designer trying to figure out a joint, to a program manager wondering just how we're going to launch that missle. We spend a tremendous amount of effort on product visualization, but very little on videos on our community service projects. We do those too, but the ratio is like 2,000 or more to 1 in terms of man hours.

If we used a similar ratio of robot building to Chairman's award on our team, we'd have one student working on it for 10 hours. I think we can actually do that. It might even be competitive.

ColleenShaver 28-10-2002 13:25

I think a lot of great points have been made here about the importance of the Chairman's Award irregardless of its submission format.

- Nothing is being done to stifle anyone's creativity.. nothing is being done to stop anyone from making some cool videos... Why not still do that and if you need to attract sponsors, or students, or showcase your efforts you can pop in this tape and impress everyone.

- It's just a new challenge, like FIRST presents every year. Yeah, maybe people are not English majors, but you are not going to go through a technical education these days without learning to write... a major problem with many tech students (engineers, etc) is they come out not knowing how to communicate their ideas to anyone.

- This format will hopefully even out the field.. as some posted earlier, it will bring a level of equality. It should also make the submission easier (so people don't not submit an entry because they know they don't have the video editing experience or ability to produce to the quality many can) and encourage more submissions.

WPI has been in FIRST since the very beginning. Last year was the very first year we submitted a Chairman's Award entry. We didn't submit a video either. We submitted an interactive webpage with bulleted points and photos on each page and voice overs explaining in more detail (kind of like a decent powerpoint presentation & lecture).

I guess my point is to take the advice of a lot of the people that posted here. This really can be for the better for everyone, regardless of how much time you've put into a video so far.. all is not lost, nothing is really. It's just another challenge.. like alliances were in '99, 3x losers score in 2000, like 4v0 in 2001... etc etc...

While many people have been working on Chairman's Awards for weeks (or months) now, we also start doing robot design work before we even know what the game is. We experiment with drive systems and other new things.. never knowing if we will be able to use all that work when the game is revealed in January. But it is good practice, a good time to learn and teach, and we can always use it some other time for another robot (or purpose even). The new Chairman's Award format can be looked at in the same light..

Redhead Jokes 28-10-2002 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisH


But it seems to me that when you have a multi-person sub team whose whole focus is on the Chairman's award and nothing else, that maybe somebody is missing the point.

We don't have a multi-person sub team with the only focus on the Chairman's Award. It was me and a student, trying to get others help. Now we have a retired teacher and a few more students doing video. It was helping some get the point. The very cool video software we just received courtesy of a mentor was a vehicle for getting other students to begin to get interested in what their team is about and what to aspire to. We have lots of newbies, few veterans. The process of doing the video and going after the chairman's award is, to me, more important than the cool video and winning. Which, come to think of it, is what will be more team's experience now that the submission doesn't require video.

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisH

Some might say "but what about the animation competition?" If you read the rules on the animation competition, the focus is on helping your team visualize their robot concept and how it might work.

Accurate visualizations help refine the final product and contribute to the goals of the program.

*wince* That's the one we haven't come close to getting off the ground - animation or CAD for that matter. This is our first year that we have one borrowed computer, a donated laptop, and the use of 3 member's laptops when they bring them. Our past years' animation/CAD software went to a past student leader since our facility didn't have a computer. We're going to try to hold on to our program's programs now, in order to have them availalbe to begin to familiarize team members with them.

Redhead Jokes 28-10-2002 13:50

Quote:

Originally posted by colleen-t190
we also start doing robot design work before we even know what the game is. We experiment with drive systems and other new things.. never knowing if we will be able to use all that work when the game is revealed in January. But it is good practice, a good time to learn and teach, and we can always use it some other time for another robot (or purpose even).
We went to year round for the first time this year. We successsfully analyzed our 2002 robot, and what we would have done differently, analyzed what wasn't working for our team that needed to be changed, and made good progress on all that. We had expectations of experimenting with robotic subsystems, a lot of which didn't come to fruition. However we got a LOT done organizing our mess of a facility into something wonderful, and working towards something unexpected robotwise that just might fly.

Altho we didn't accomplish all we wanted to, the process put us "out" there for the public to see, and, for instance, we're getting a walking, talking robot donated to our team cuz she heard about us. Playtime and exhibitions!
Like life, it's a journey not a destination, celebrating the end results you wanted, the end results you didn't expect, and picking yourself up and journeying again.

Shawn 28-10-2002 15:42

Leveling the field? Maybe not....
 
A lot of people have said that turning the Chairman's Award into an essay would level the field. But have you thought that it might level it too much? For instance, if your team did something really cool, you would write about it, but the judges might be like, "Oh, that's sort of interesting..." and not make a big deal out of it. With a video, they could see the actual impact of it. And, you could see the actual interaction with the community, such as parades or demonstrations. And isn't interacting with the community and spreading the word of FIRST what Chairman's is all about?

Madison 28-10-2002 16:10

Re: Leveling the field? Maybe not....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shawn
A lot of people have said that turning the Chairman's Award into an essay would level the field. But have you thought that it might level it too much? For instance, if your team did something really cool, you would write about it, but the judges might be like, "Oh, that's sort of interesting..." and not make a big deal out of it. With a video, they could see the actual impact of it. And, you could see the actual interaction with the community, such as parades or demonstrations. And isn't interacting with the community and spreading the word of FIRST what Chairman's is all about?
The concept of something being too level, even, or fair eludes my grasp. Honestly.

Ultimately, it's a subjectively judged award. People judge it based on what they see from the submissions, what they bring to the submissions, and what they're looking for in a Chairman's Award recipient.

Two teams may do the exact same community outreach program, though one may present it better in writing than the other. There's nothing we can do about that, I'm afraid, and it's just one of those facts of life.

If, however, one team submits a professionally edited video with a budget that can rival Star Wars, while the other submits a type-written entry - I'd be amazed, really, if the team who submitted the video tape was not preferred.

Therefore, I maintain that standardizing the submission media in a way such that it gives every team in FIRST access to submit themselves for consideration does level the playing field in the only way a playing field can be leveled.

The idea of something being too fair or balanced is silly.


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