Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Unfortunately, the only way waivers will work properly is if players know that there is a team on waiver, and where.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Not sure if I follow the logic here?

First I guess we need to define what properly means. To me the objectives are as follows and ranked by importance:

1) Catch teams that were previously undrafted before the season, and teams that joined an event after the conclusion of the draft.
2) Prevent a "who can click submit" quicker arms race, (basically what we had last year)
3) Provide a fair and structured way about what to do when two FF teams want the same FRC team.
4) Add some skill and depth to FF in keeping up with teams/looking for new teams that may have just joined.

The only thing that I can think of is that you want to announce the teams on the waiver because without announcing it FF teams wouldn't pick up on the trades and just one team would get them all? Gone are the days of FF teams not being competitive enough to look for their own teams to trade (just look at this threads discussion about keeping the competitive integrity) I'm confident that "powerhouse" teams will be public enough that most/all the teams will know that they are attending an event, and if they don't, they probably wouldn't check CD for the waivers anyways. Just look at the 2016 or 2015 season, the majority of the claims/trades were the top teams anyways. The point here is that the main point of the abuse of not "announcing" teams is that somehow everyone misses team 148 is going to san diego and so I 2056, so some FF team snipes 3 god tier picks because nobody else in the league is competitive enough to notice that they are attending the event. Everyone is too competitive/strong for that to happen (rookie FF teams using tba api to make lists, passionate debates about team trading btwn 6 out of the 9 teams in the league, half of which are rookies, heck we even have a team logo for NE wywi,AND zero missed drafts by any team and we are like 1/4 through the season ) I don't think there is a chance in hell that at LEAST 3-4 teams make a claim for a late joining powerhouse team If it isnt announced.

To me the information is already out there (on TBA) and announcing teams up for grabs/who is picking them up is a disincentive for people to look for swaps in the first place. If you aren't #1 on the waiver when you find out 118 is going to hawaii, why bring it up? Hold it off and hope that teams use their priority on weaker picks.

OR if there is a deadline for waiver claims, TBC will just last second submit all our claims so nobody has a chance to snipe them?

But Brennan, If everyone knows about the powerhouse teams already who cares if you announce every team on the waivers?

Easy. The teams that have played throughout the season already and have suprised you (and the dark horse waiver pickups)

These trades dont really make huge waves points wise, but get enough of them and you can see some decent improvements. These are the teams where you spend the time knowing the teams performance and watching the matches. Looking at the scores. If i'm team "I do no work" and I see TBC try to pick up a waiver for ontario with 4476, I know TBC is a good team, so I will just copy their waivers/spend 5 minutes only looking at the good teams people have put waivers for instead of the 5 hours, that TBC spent on watching the ontario district where 4476 did okay at. And voila! I get all the good teams for doing minimal work and the teams that put in the work get punished for it. (even more so than resetting their priority which is enough of a balance.) is 4476 a super powerhouse that will win every event? Nah. Are they still decent? Yeah they are okay. It's not a dealbreaker I picks like these get through.

So yeah, fairly passionate about the outcome here. I didnt really cover everything I have to say on this but hopefully this convinces you/gets some good discussion on it. Since this has been in the 2017 improvement thread for ages. though nobody ever talked about it because it was just RFA and us agreeing that waivers should be private.


EDIT

We also never resolved if district teams score points for out of district events once again I think this should be a solid no as teams are unable to win many awards. Etc makes them a less valuable pickup.

Edit #2

tl;dr

Don't make announcing teams publically mandatory. Most FF teams will notice big teams joining an event anyways. Small(ish) teams have a small(ish) impact and not being announced allow for more ways for teams to gain small advantages at the risk of being low in priority for a potential bigger team down the road.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Ok I need a serious tl;dr for this one because despite reading this I am confused as to your point. I personally think it is fair to announce, something like "Hey FYI 254 just popped up at South Florida" and you don't seem to be arguing that point at least I don't think so. You seem to be more arguing that when we are having our weekly waiver wire clears our lists should be private. Which they always have been, when I was keeping track of waivers more intently and I had a whole team on my Fantasy FIRST team we sent our waiver requests directly to Eric, who was running waivers, and I do not believe they were ever seen by anyone other then him.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

tl;dr:
Don't make announcing teams publically mandatory. Most FF teams will notice big teams joining an event anyways. Small(ish) teams have a small(ish) impact and not being announced allow for more ways for teams to gain small advantages at the risk of being low in priority for a potential bigger team down the road.

Both lists and teams being picked up should be private.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

The objective of waivers is this: To allow teams that were not available at the start of the draft (or became available by somebody leaving the league) to be competitively distributed. To prevent click-race picking of second-event teams. And to provide some parity in distribution.

I will respond in fuller detail later (there were some rather barbed comments in what I was writing), but there are two things I want to say first:

As commissioner, the waiver process has always been as open as possible. This includes a full list of teams on waiver. I don't anticipate changing that.


And I think there is a balance between secrecy and openness: A list of teams that have been claimed posted without mention of who claimed them, at a late enough time in the process to limit "copycat" picks, but with enough time to sneak some last-second adjustments (like that surprise 1114 claim) in. If that were in place, I think some incentive (points/bump-ups in waiver priority?) to have most (not all) of the claims in in time for the list would be in order.



With respect to the inter-district play, I agree that we didn't come to a resolution on that. Again, I will respond to this in more detail at a later time. I would say that that particular point of view is in fact quite reasonable, though I can't say that teams should play without getting some points for it. There may be a compromise, to be discussed.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Just wanted to chime in with, I'm a firm believer that district teams shouldn't receive points for out of district events, for a number of reasons, mainly being that they can not earn as many awards.

There is the counter argument that teams going out of district gives them more experience, thus potentially earning them more points at their district events, but at the same time, afaik, all district teams recieve out of bag time during those weekends anyways(at least in Michigan, unless this changed recently as I haven't been on a team since 2014). So teams are basically trading robot work time for event experience time. What this means to me, is that the teams with an already good robot will earn points, and those that don't have a good robot won't.

Based on that, it basically disqualifies picking any mid tier teams that are going to an early out of district event, as the risk of them performing well isn't really worth the reward.

tl;dr - very good teams will still earn just as many points(probably) using either system, but mid tier teams that go out of district will be placed on a much lower picking priority scale.

I believe this is bad, as it makes some teams that look like good picks be too risky, and reduces the number of "good" middle tier picks. Example - 68 2015/2016, great pick up if it only includes in district events, middle pack pick up if it does not.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I agree. Your emphasis I think is included in my point #3. Maybe we forgot about switching teams mid way through season though? We said last year they would be waivered. Otherwise we just have what we had last year. Everybody waiting for them to just be free agents and seeing who could click submit faster. Both RFA and TBC could have gone through the waivers, but that would just give all the teams we wanted to pick in a nice short list for everyone else to see and contest us. At least by waiting we:

1) knew the team that beat us put in the work to find the same info we did
2) we still had better odds of getting good teams


If you want to write up a list of every single team that is on the waivers that's totally fine with me. That protects the integrity of the hard work, and still allows for teams to be aware of the people on the list. The problem is that list is every new joining team, and every team at every event that didn't get picked in the draft. So that's like a list of 5000+ teams at the start of the season. Unless we don't have the mid season swaps be waivers and go through some other system.


The problem is any team that has been claimed is likely better than your 3rd/6th pick for your event. If I get a list of every team that is trying to be picked up now i'd spend 10 seconds per pick typing their name in TBA if I didn't know them and seeing if they are better than that or not. 10 teams? 100 seconds. For a team like 1114 everyone in the league needs the length of writing "we want 1114" to decide that they want to draft them from the waivers. It doesn't take long no matter how last second you make it to get sniped off of picks

To illustrate my point:

//Satire Zone

I propose we introduce a new rule where we now make it mandatory for all teams to post a list of their teams for each further draft from rank 4-10 on their lists respectively. I already know who the top 4 are likely, but it would be really nice if I could have each team's expertise for free on the "under the radar pickups" The teams don't have to be ranked in order, so don't worry I can't copy your list. 1197 is on this list? (courtesy of team falcon little do I know) They went to Einstein last year? I had no idea! They must be a underdog pick here! I wouldn't have noticed them but every team had to post every team they wanted to pick that thought they might be good. I got a nice little list to check over this week instead of the 45 team list at this regional.

//Satire Zone Ended

I don't like punishing teams for putting in work.



Don't the teams themselves not recieve any district points for their out of district events?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

If you look at fantasy football, no player knows what everyone else has claimed on waivers. And that's really how it should be: if Team 1 has a better waiver position than Team 2, but sees Team 2 has (example) Julio Jones on their list of waiver pickups, Team 1 can just say "Oh! We forgot about Julio!" and then add them to their list and be on their way, while Team 2 is actually the team that remembered. So waiver submissions really should be kept private.

With that said, Fantasy Football has two things different from SLFF:
1) When players go OFF waivers is explicitly clear
2) When players go ON waivers is explicitly clear

You can obviously derive on from the other, but if you don't know what they are ahead of time, that's not really fair. And since we don't know the exact day some teams are added to the attending list at a regional, we don't really know when they go off waivers either.

So overall, I think a list of teams on waivers (which should be all undrafted or added teams) seems entirely reasonable to me. However, there shouldn't be any indication on which teams have been already been claimed, and there should only be announcement about that claim when the team is added to the roster of the winner. Additionally, if a team is the only team to submit a waiver claim for a team, they shouldn't lose waiver priority (however, if another team puts a claim in for a team, the winning team should go to the back of the order).

Just my thoughts.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Trevors logic makes perfect sense to me. The only reason why I suggested not posting teams is because I don't know how realistic it is to maintain that kind of list. Maybe a FF team would be willing to take that up as a project?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I don't think it would be particularly difficult to do, but we'd need some help. Take the sort key we're using in the draft results tab, and then just take the list of undrafted teams from your excel (as a draft runner) or from the end of the draft thread (since this is partially retroactive) and paste. Then, if a team submits a claim for an added team, Eric discretely adds that team to the list (or adds it on his own if he notices them). So it's continuously updated and available for everyone to see and screen.

Five days after the first claim, that team is taken off the list, announced, and added. The team that's dropped goes to waivers.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Untitled Team and Questionable Decisionmakers have agreed to the following trade:

Untitled Receives:
#9, #10, and #20 Rocket City
#5 South Pacific
#21 Sacramento

QD Receives:
#3, #16, and #21 Rocket City
#6 South Pacific
#22 Sacramento

It is currently available for review.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

So I have a suggestion, why not make waivers permanent?

Hear me out: Last year I suggested to make teams go on waiver the week after the competed to stop an arms race, certain smart teams realized they were keeping track while others weren't so didn't put in the request for the weaker teams and just got them off the FA market.

So here is my suggestion:

For now any team that was open to be drafted during the draft is a Free Agent.

Any teams added after the draft goes on Waivers. Waivers are listed in a public location in their entirety and not announced when it is updated or who was added. 36 hours before a waiver is run the waiver list is locked and any teams who are added will not be cycled till the next cycle.

Any teams dropped from a Fantasy Team are put on the waiver list.

Teams are never removed from waivers once put on. Basically what that means is as soon as a team competes, all their other events they could be picked up at need to go through waivers.

I think this solves the worry about sniping teams once they are announced, keeps the risk of teams stealing diamonds in the rough from others who watched the events, and is actually super simple for the waiver runner to check because we have a list of who competes each week.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I think this was the general idea to begin with but I guess never got communicated. I am all for it. (except keeping a giant list of waivers)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Honestly Eric runs the waivers but I would be willing to run the database of who is or isn't on the waiver wire. Basically I run the database but Eric handles the pick lists.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I'm kinda confused what this means. If I'm reading it correctly, what you're saying is that waivers run at a consistent weekly time. 36 hours before that time (say they run at noon on 12/10, which would mean that time is midnight 12/9) you have to have submitted your waiver list?

That sounds a tad excessive but the rest of it makes sense.