Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I had a family issue come up, therefore I was unable to call in the picks, but I made sure they had access to my picklist. (Which is being viewed as a bad picklist). As I've said I just want to get this whole ordeal over with so I can enjoy my first season of doing this.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

As well, I just want a nice season of FF to compete against you guys square and fair, its just not so much the fair part right now.(We've been screwed over by draft position multiple years in a row now, and finally we got it to the point where all draft slots are even and rotated, except now its not so even anymore).

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

No worries Niklas. Everybody has those kinds of things. And don't worry too much about "bad picklists" It's pretty subjective an team performance varies. Every system for measuring picklists that isn't your team's is going to undervalue your picklist.

I was concerned about the 27 pick prior. Didn't bring it up as it wasn't obvious that there was intentional lopsiding the picks. (No point in witch hunting) it was more the blatant swap for a worse pick position that made me bring it up. That clearly didn't have a morsel of fairness. I also think that the nonchalant "hug trading" got people on edge and was a poor taste of joke. We want to have fun and keep things fair for everyone of course!

James has bring up some great points. I just don't want this to be some super relegated league where nobody can have fun because there are so many rules about what you can and cannot do. This is for fun!

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Thanks for the vode of confidence in regards to the pick list. The hugs were in bad taste. In regards to the San Diego trade I should've pushed to give more after it was accepted straight up, my mistake. To fix this mistake the 20th and 23rd pick have been added into the deal to make it fairer.

I've been having fun competing against all of the other teams and am glad that FF is here. Now let's go out and have a fair rest of the season in which the winners won fairly.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Honestly just saying "A trade up in position during a future draft rotation yet to be determined" would have put everyone at ease.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

+1

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Brennan's got it--this is for fun.

I might consider putting a couple of trade restrictions in--but I much prefer "gentleman's agreements" that, say, full trades be announced. There's a couple of days to work with for considering, as Wednesday is an official off day for drafting (and we don't seem to have any drafts to catch up on.)



On another topic: Joseph, Falcon will be taking full random in San Diego tomorrow. (St. Louis will depend on whether I'm online when my slot opens.)



On yet another topic: For a future event, I happen to want points, without having teams at all, not even random ones. Obviously, I would be up for taking some point penalty short of having no points at that event. Would median team score, times three, work, or is there some better idea? (I'd probably be writing this one into the rules under a specific name--there's a very specific reason for this particular topic of discussion.)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

So, I'm of the mind that no risk, no reward. You shouldn't be able to gain points on any player due to not playing. So here's my thought: you can take no teams, but
1) You cannot make any trades related to that draft
2) You are ineligible to pick up teams off waivers for that event
3) Your score for that event is XX (agreed upon number or percentage) below the lowest scoring picking player.

Those would probably just be starting points. Loopholes would have to be closed for this.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I am curious as to why but I think this is actually a rule that if implemented could potentially be used unfairly. Lets say we have an event with 27 teams and 9 fantasy teams in the league in theory the teams should score in a point system similar to 27 down to 1 meaning the 9th pick gets 19, 18, and 1 point for 38 points but the median score would be 14 which times 3 is 42 meaning you get more points for not playing.

I also dislike this because in traditional fantasy sports, to my knowledge, you can't just say "I want the average score of all running backs across the league for my rb1 slot" (which btw would be really stupid)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Basically, I want zero, repeat zero, teams in that particular draft. So the first two points are fine. But, I would rather be "with the pack"--that is, I don't want to lose position because I don't participate in a draft. (You'll have to trust me when I say that I have a really, really good reason not to play in that particular draft.) That puts the third point as unacceptable--I have seen players that are within 20 points of each other in final pre-champs score, no joke.

What about some score determined by unpicked teams? Naturally, FF players will pick the top teams wherever possible, but there's the offchance for a fluke. Average the unpicked teams, multiply by X (where 2<X<=3)?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Right. One item I would have in the rule would be that the commissioner would have to approve the usage--or, the draft runner for that draft AND whichever draft runner was scheduled to run the most drafts (or second-most, if the first two were the same person), in the event that the commissioner is the one asking or is unavailable--and would have to be informed of the specific reasons prior to approving.

I had considered the "more points for not playing" part--I don't like that myself--and figured that usage should be very tightly controlled. As in, there has to be a specific reason to invoke it.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I've been asked to clarify the Northern Lights and San Diego situations.

So, just to state things as they stand:
Northern Lights, F3 has 2883 and RF has 27. (Result of trade requested and approved--as a result of RF drafting for F3.)
San Diego (not yet approved): RF currently HAS #7 (traded #2 to Untitled for a loosely-equivalent slot in AZ North), and is now working on trading #7 and #20 to F3 for #5 and #23.

Requested draft slots for RF: #5 (+2), #17 (original), #23 (-3)
Requested draft slots for F3: #7 (-2), #14 (original), #20 (+3)

I think that's fair, but I pity the San Diego draft runner keeping things straight!

The rulings:
I'm going to rule that San Diego is a fair trade.
I'm also going to rule that Northern Lights is a fair trade--it happened AFTER the draft was over, and there's no restriction on trading teams after the drafts (other than waivers, which this wasn't). Could have been a completely independent trade.
And one final ruling: All further slot trades are on hold until Shenzhen is posted. This is to give further discussion time and give a rookie draft runner a break from the hectic-ness around those trades. If something needs to be done to clarify slot-trade situations, then it'll be done and announced by the time Shenzhen is posted. Or there'll be a "nothing changing" announcement.

TBH, I'm mainly trying to buy some time here while the discussion(s) and considerations continue. I've got limited availability tomorrow due to non-FIRST volunteering (there is such a thing?), and Wednesday is a scheduled off-day, so there's time to consider things then.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

What about something like 60-70% of the mean drafted teams score times 3?

The only issue with the non-drafted teams mean is that it would probably be extremely low, considering the amount of teams in a regional that don't get picked. This could be offset by multiplying that mean by 1.5x or such, but then you run the risk in small regionals where the non-picked teams randomly pop off and score a lot of points.

Also with the non-picked teams, it doesn't account at all for your pick position, say if you were #1(It's entirely possible you invoke this as 1st pick given a good enough reason)(I can think of two off the top of my head). Using your #1 pick up for that rotation for points that would basically equal last pick or atleast close would definitely impact your ranking.

Another way would be to use pick position as a indicator of expected points and multiply the mean of picked teams by that, say +5-10% for each position you are above pick 5, -5-10% for each position you are below 5.

It's important to remember that the system would be extremely hard to abuse, as you'd need a very good reason to evoke it, and it'd have to be accepted, not just a "we can't make the draft today, instead of randoms or a picklist we want to evoke this rule". Also, I don't really see this being used by any teams with more than one member, its basically just a way for single person teams to completely remove themselves from a draft completely so they have no connection to any supposed bias for the event, at least thats how I infer it based on what Eric has been saying(say you end up being a judge of some sort for a competition and you end up giving a reward to a team you happen to have drafted, just one example of possible uses that I can see).

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I think a fair solution here would be to give someone who does not make a pick 2-3 times the average score of the top ten (maybe fifteen?) unpicked teams. That way, there is less of an inherent disadvantage of using this option at larger events with more teams that won't be picked.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

What about this: a score 5-10% lower than the lowest scoring player OR a score equal to the median of all undrafted teams, multiplied by three.

Take the score that's higher.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Still, you have the problem with larger events of being a lot of unpicked teams, leaving you with a much lower score than a smaller event. How about the top number of teams that would have been picked including that team, if all drafted? So in a 10 team draft, the top 30 teams would be then taken the median from, then multiplied by three. Presumably, even with full random, you would still be off the median because you are either picking teams above the median, or with random, you would be taking teams below the median on average because the higher performing teams would be taken by the teams actually drafting.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Just to help the San Diego draft runner, here's all the adjustments made in draft slot for that event:

Untitled Team owns TRF's first pick (#2)
TRF owns F3's first pick (#5)
F3 owns Untitled Team's first pick (#7)
F3 owns TRF's third pick (#20)
TRF owns F3's third pick (#23)

If I'm missing anything let me know, but I think that's it.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Why is there a scenario where you should be permitted to take zero teams? If I'm last pick in like. Shenzen (a weakish even that not many people know anything about) for example. If I just want an average and be guaranteed an average score.

I don't see a legitimate case where you wouldn't just take randoms. Randoms are more entertaining anyways. Maybe you get some killer teams maybe you don't.

I think FF should do everything in its power to incentivize actually picking teams and discourage people from not picking. I mean that's the whole point of this league is it not? We are here to pick teams not find some weird meta where it is better to not pick anybody.

As a side note. Should pick slots continue. I believe we should only be allowed to trade equally in the same teir. Matching pick order isn't enough.

If the rules don't change TBC will be accepting every and all trades of equal value where we get a better first team slot and you get a better second team slot. Or we get a better second team slot while you get a better third team slot. Contact us at an point as we will gladly take an inherently unfair trade to gain advantage from people. We would be glad to gain a significant advantage over everyone else :)

With this approved trade RF just boned F3 again. I'm sure it wasn't collusion, but one team definitely got the advantage. Though the draft position delta was the same. Teams don't follow a linear performance in points. RF definitely got the better deal :p (I mean it's still way better than the previous one)

TBC (pending approval) is also interested in trading for some select #3 overall pick draft positions.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Just wondering, when will the San Diego (CASD) thread be up?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Before the time the draft is supposed to start :rolleyes: :D

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

There is a very, very specific scenario where it is to everybody's advantage for an FF player to either not have teams at an event, or not have the ability to know what teams they have. And I do mean everybody's advantage, both in FF and at the event. In some cases, simply taking randoms is acceptable--matter of fact, that's why I'm taking randoms in San Diego. I regard the no-team option as the option of last resort, and only to be used if that scenario is in play. Once we figure out how to handle the scenario, I'll post it.


It's been suggested that players taking the no-team option simply be assigned random teams after the event, during scoring. That's what we usually do to fill a hole that isn't previously filled, anyways--is that more workable?



I'm not trying to find a meta here, just so everybody's aware. I'm simply trying to screw over as few people as possible, including myself, while dealing with that very specific scenario that is creating an awkward situation. That scenario exists, and I plan to write it into any rules that are written to cover it, as well as a safeguard against misuse.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I'm okay with that.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I know this is strange, but I kinda just follow FF itself. I'm trying to understand the rules better. Is the pdf uploaded here on CD updated for this year? Just tryin' to maybe see how it works so I could play next year maybe.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I do have a draft pick trade in my PM box for Shenzhen and later. At this time, no action will be taken either way.

I realize the teams involved would like a speedy resolution, and I would too, but I also want to make sure that we get the draft pick trade situation right, which may by default require a retooling of that trade. So, the timeline is going to be as follows:

Next 24 hours (or so): Discussion on trades. Probably around 7 PM Eastern tomorrow, I'll make a preliminary determination, and see if everybody's equally unhappy.
After a couple of hours (or so), a final determination will be reached. If necessary, it'll be an interim, and tagged as such, to last until the next break day.
Immediately after that, a determination will be made on any draft pick trades that are waiting (unless they're pulled back).
And THEN Shenzhen will be posted.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I'll be waiting until Shenzhen gets posted to post Dallas, for the above reasons.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Questionable Decisionmakers have engaged in a few draft trade talks, and have since discussed the implementation and logistics of such trades. This is a consensus opinion of our team.

We believe that draft pick trades implement an additional dimension to the SLFF universe which has not been present to the same extent in the past. Although both team trading and draft pick trading are trading potential, the potential in those two objects is vastly different in nature. We also believe it easier to trade draft picks than teams, because everyone evaluates teams differently, but evaluate draft picks along a similar scale.

With that in mind, we have a few concerns that we would like addressed with a future system.

First, we would like to see a way for Draft Runners to keep it organized. For example, using a google spreadsheet, we can keep track of any traded draft slot, and it will be an easy reference for draft runners to check before posting their draft.

Second, we would like to see the implementation of a committee of chosen representatives from each team. This would be a nine member committee (one from each team) designed to review potential trades for approval. At least four vetos (or 50% of the non-participating teams) would have to veto the trade for it to get blocked. Rough framework, I know, but that is what we would like to see.

Third, trades would have to be agreed upon and sent to the commissioner at least 24 hours in advance of the first affected draft, and a determination on the approval of all trades that affect a draft must be completed at least three hours before the start of that draft. An exception will be granted to any trades approved that involve Shenzhen or Dallas (since the trade restriction will likely be lifted within the 24 hour limit), but any trades involving those must be sent to the commissioner during the trade freeze.

Lastly, we would like the order for the next randomization determined at least two to three days before the opening of the first affected draft. This will allow teams to have time to analyze which picks they have, and make trades well in advance.

Again, this was a consensus opinion the members of Questionable Decisionmakers came to as a group. We think this will enhance the league, and are willing to volunteer to help implement any of these systems.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Trevor's post is well thought out and has definitely changed my outlook on spot trading.

I do however think that an appointed committee is a bit overboard for our purposes, and likely too clunky to work smoothly.

I think a pretty fair compromise is that going forward trades be restricted in tiers. Meaning if team A gets a better team one for regional 1, Team B gets a better team one for regional B. I'm no no fan of the potential abuse of strong teams making same delta trades but getting better first pick slots. The game then becomes who can befriend the weak teams the best and convince them they are getting a fair deal. Restricting trades from #1-#9, #10-#18, and #19-#27 both eliminates the need for any committee/supervision, doesn't screw anyone over, and still allows for some added (fair) depth to FF. both teams must receive a draft spot within the same grouping of draft spots.

These can be submitted like QD says via Google sheet. (Preferably google forms so it automatically timestamps the requests) 24 hours seems like a good time line for deadlines for trades.

Secondly TBC has been in contact with RFA and has begun to attempt to recreate the automated scorer. (it was deleted :( ) We will be giving progress updates as we continue work on it.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Agree on the committee being too clunky, and agree on use of a Google spreadsheet. I think there's an empty tab on the draft schedule sheet--kind of makes it a one-stop-shop for all your FF draft updates (I haven't started filling in the draft results sheet yet, though). (Now watch somebody fill it with a possible outline by the time Shenzhen and Dallas go up. :p ) Wouldn't hurt to have trades put up with a flag that can be set for approval/disapproval/"hey, commish, review this one further" (someone that isn't me doesn't like the trade).

I would also agree on a time restriction--maybe not 24 hours before the first affected draft, but certainly no less than 1 hour. TBD after further discussion. It actually isn't that hard to move times around, but some notice is needed.

The extra time on draft randomization is... up for debate. The primary way to do that is to generate a draft, and depending on who drew that particular draft, they could have two or three others to do ahead of time. Just something to consider.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Randomizing the draft order a couple days in advance isn't that hard, you can just use a list randomizer, post it in the main thread, and whoever runs the draft thats supposed to randomize it just uses that list.(like this one https://www.random.org/lists/) EDIT - I would be in favor of this, I really see no reason not to, and it gives more times for trades.

For draft swaps, the committee does seem a little clunky(getting a response from 9 people an hour before the draft or so doesn't seem very easy). Eric's idea of just having people hit him up if they smell something fishy works, but Eric isn't going to be here for every draft, and if the limit gets set for an hour before the draft, thats a problem.

Possible solution, all trades HAVE to be approved by Eric.

Possible solution #2, we could have something with Eric, and 2 other people(possibly whoever is running the most amount of drafts outside of Eric, and both can't be on the same team). If eric says its fine, it goes through, if Eric is not available, those two people would decide, it would take both of those people vetoing it to prevent the trade from going through. Could do it via the sheet thats being set up to manage trades. Just have 3 boxes, one for each person.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

As noted by Eric above, someone has been working on setting a record of everyone's picks up :). Our team has tracked the picks made by each team at each event so far. We'll be placing those into the Draft Schedule document.

Our team agrees with Joseph's second plan: Eric can be the main decisionmaker, along with a committee of three people (based on the number of drafts run and the teams which they are on, would include JosephC, MARS_James, and myself) who can also veto a trade.

1 hour deadline seems late to submit trades. I'd go with three hours (trades submitted by 4pm, approved by 6pm), but that's all details, not implementation.

With a screening panel, we do not believe in the idea of a hard cap on trades via a tier system. We think that limits activity between teams in a way that unreasonably restricts talks. However, we also have no problem with one or more of the members of the veto committee using it as a basis for their veto/acceptance, if they think that is the best way to evaluate a trade.

Randomization well ahead of time does not seem like a serious obstacle and can be tackled in a variety of ways, none of which is a detriment to the operation of the league. Therefore, we are firmly among those who would like to see that happen.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I would argue that there is nothing saying that you cannot trade multiple slots--but as has been pointed out, there is a significant difference between moving up in round 1 vs moving up in round 2, or round 3. Round 1, there's a pretty fair chance you move up into picking one of the top teams at the event. Round 2, you might get lucky. Round 3? Hopefully it's a deep event.

What if... We could agree (somewhat) on an equivalence system? Just as a thought, let a Round 1 pick be worth 3 points/slot moved, round 2 be 2 points, and Round 3 be 1 point. Up/down are +/-. So if you trade earlier, you get + points. Then just set an overall cap on allowable points spread--just to pick a number, -3 to +3--and any trade that ends up with all teams within that cap is fair game by default. (And if we were really sneaky, there would be another number, say -10 overall, that would signal that it was time for an intervention.)

Just an idea, I don't think it'll be too popular.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I'd be okay with that eric, although it totally breaks in deep event like FIM, where second tier picks might as well be 1st tier.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I feel like that system has the potential to work for some events and absolutely fail for others. As Joseph pointed out, district events are exceptionally deep, along with a large number of California and Midwest events. So I don't mind putting in a theoretical value for each pick, but I don't see it as the end-all-be-all for determining if a trade is fair or not.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

After seeing the discussions, and pending any responses to my most recent suggestion, there are some things that I know for sure. (I know I'm a bit late here... sorry about that.) This is going to be a long post.

1) Rules change (proposed):
Conflict of Interest Drafting
It may happen that players, either individually or as a team, determine that they may have a conflict of interest when playing FF and also volunteering at a particular event, depending on their particular volunteer role, and that having knowledge of their FF teams previous to the event has the possibility of creating uncomfortable situations. If the players determine that they cannot handle this by having another team member handle the draft, they have two options:
A) Randomize their picks. This is the preferred option, and will cover the vast majority of cases.
B) Request a Conflict of Interest draft (COI) by contacting the league commissioner, the draft runner for that draft, and one other draft runner (not either of the above), with the event and volunteer position. The draft runner for that draft and either one of the other two must both approve.
Approval guidelines: The player needs to be in a position that has the capability to directly affect either FF points or event outcome, or both, a list that includes but is not limited to refs and judges. Also, there needs to be a reasonable expectation that existing countermeasures may not be enough to deflect questions should they be asked. Existing countermeasures may include non-FF-playing volunteers in higher positions, or enough non-FF-playing volunteers, or even other FF-playing volunteers from other FF teams at the event.
COI Draft Implementation: Upon approval, the draft runner will place "COI" in the player's draft slots, and the draft will skip over those slots. The player is not allowed to fill those slots by any means--no trading, no waiver picks, and no selections. During scoring of the event, those slots will be filled by random teams after all other open slots are filled, and scores will be tabulated as normal.
COI Denied: If a complete COI draft is denied, the player will be assigned random teams during the draft, unless they make a pick.

2) Draft Slot Trading
I believe that we can agree on the following:
--A Google Spreadsheet, or similar, will keep track of proposed trades. There's one set up on the schedule sheet that works.
--A group comprised of the commissioner and the 3 most prolific draft runners, no two of whom are on the same FF team, will be the approval committee for trades. Currently, that would be myself, JosephC, Mars_James, and TDav540--BrennanB would be eligible but is on JosephC's team. [Fine print: commissioner's approval is automatic approval, otherwise 2 draft runners that are not involved with the trade must agree. That's why there's 4 persons.]
--Trades must be approved 1 hour prior to the draft start time, but must be submitted no later than 3 hours prior to the draft start time.
--Any player may raise a question about a trade between submission and approval.

I think that this would be a reasonable interim solution, to become more permanent if it works.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Sounds all reasonable and good to me. Do we want to develop a Google Form to submit trades through that will end up in the proposed trades sheet? Or just let players post them in the sheet without going through a form?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I would start with--as an interim solution--just posting in the sheet. We can always re-evaluate in about a week.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Am fine with rolling with this. Lets do it!

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I haven't read any screaming, so we're going to roll with it. Sheet will be updated shortly with the current trades I'm aware of, and that will be followed by Shenzhen.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Well, THAT won't work...

Untitled, TBC, you guys have some rework to do.

For everybody else, Untitled has the #1 slot at Shenzhen, and has reached trade agreements with both QD(#6) & TBC (#2) for that slot. QD is in first, by about 8 hours.

Because QD is in first, that trade will go through unless somebody puts a panicked PM in before I post Shenzhen, and the TBC trade will be vetoed on grounds of incorrect slots.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

And Shenzhen is now up. Welcome back from the "off-day"!

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Now that we've cleared a few things up that affected the rules...

I just put up the updated rules, including today's updates. (I did try to stay pretty close to the wording used in my earlier post, but going a little more general.) https://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2574

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Speaking of the rules, I was under the impression that we would use district seeding points for seeds, instead of the 20-12-12-6-6-6-6-6[...] system that was in the old document. (see Section 7.4.1 of the Admin manual here for the equation).

Which will we be using for FF scoring?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

...

I'll have to look that up after the drafts tonight. I want to say we discussed that in the "stuff to change" thread.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Thank you! I'd be interested in playing next year. Is there any chance of a stand-alone FF league just for Champs? I'd be interested in doing that this year.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I know there's one for IRI, and there's a standalone FIM draft this year(the rules are a little different for both), but I don't know of anyone doing a standalone Worlds draft, atleast not through this forum.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

If someone steps up, there can be. I know in the past some folks have done a free-for-all draft (pick any 3 teams as long as someone else doesn't have the same 3); there's nothing saying that there can only be one FF league/draft.

I have no plans to run a stand-alone Champs league, however. (It's going to be fun enough getting 6 divisions at each 1/2Champs drafted.)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Erci uses the term "fun" very loosely here :o

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Ok, thanks! If someone else sees this and becomes consumed with the idea of creating a stand-alone Champs league, I'll probably try and participate. But I'd say it's a bad idea to try and start a league myself without ever having played. Maybe next year.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Can someone explain to me why we use CD time? Everyone seems to get confused/not care about it, and, from my perspective, it's just easier to check that little box in the corner than remember that CD time is behind actual time.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Because sometimes people computers are not perfectly synced. The only option would be to go by the draft runners time, which may/may not be synced properly either.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Standard time reference.

Actually I just sent Brandon a PM to see if that could be fixed. I consider 5 minutes slow to be unacceptable with the clocks at home...

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

We are interested in this also. Just lost a pick due to this.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Why couldn't everyone just check that with this then?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

TRF would be in support of this.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

It's the time that gets posted above posts, it keeps things consistent instead of people arguing about timing. You can't really argue with the time above posts. I also see no reason to have to have another tab open as a draft runner that i have to constantly check when i already have multiple tabs open dedicated to the draft that I need to check. It's really not that hard to scroll down to the bottom of the page guys.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Time is good. TimeSTAMP is what gets the post.

As I said, I've sent Brandon a PM to reset the CD clock--it obviously needs it for time-dependent items.


I would also note that when lists are sent in, they are considered effective whenever the slot opens--which would be when they're the next pick up (or the time turns to that slot, if someone isn't showing up).

I'm also interested in a stand alone draft but I'm in the same boat as Cothron in terms of not wanting to run it because of inexperience.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I'd recommend making a separate post to gauge interest and gather members, the SLFF main thread isn't the place to setup a non-SLFF draft.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

In lieu of a skew of issues with live drafting so far, I've decided to make a small "How to live draft" guide.

#1 - Keep an eye on ChiefDelphi time, it's approximately 5 minutes and 20 seconds behind the actual time. It is located at the bottom of the page, and this is the time we use for every draft.

#2 - Refresh the page before you post.

#3 - You're available to pick when the following conditions are met.
Your pick slot is up based on chiefdelphi time, or the person with the time slot before yours has picked.

#4 - Make sure the team you are picking is attending the event, and has not already been picked.


Or you can just send in a list, it's easier for everyone trust me.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I'd like to propose that randomization for the next series happen at the conclusion of tomorrow's drafts (Miami Valley and Central Valley). That gives teams plenty of time to analyze which picks they own for the next set and prepare trade offers if they so choose.

Also, everyone should read Joseph's post, because it's spot on.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

One extra thing to expand on #4 is to make sure that you are typing the correct team number that you want to pick. I know this has been an issue with 2502 and 2052 at their respective Minnesota regionals, for example, but it's always easy to let a typo slip through. There are over 6000 team numbers - make sure you're typing the right one.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Falcon and Questionable Decisionmakers have completed a trade and it is currently available for review:

Falcon Receives:
#9 Ventura
#10 Ventura
#3 Central Valley

Questionable Decisionmakers Receive:
#1 Ventura
#18 Ventura
#4 Central Valley

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

So I have been thinking about something that has been bugging me for a while about the COI drafts. I think that if you are in need of a COI draft it is unfair if you are first pick, both to you and the league as a whole as whoever is second pick effectively gets to be first pick twice in a row. So I propose if a COI draft is called that event becomes a specific draft order for that round, basically we skip the normal rotation for that draft and switch it with the draft where the person in need of COI is at a specific location in the draft. I believe this position should be the middle spot (rounded down) so since we have 9 this year it would be position 5, if we have 8 it would also be position 5 since it is rounded down.

The reason for this specific position as I feel that the middle spot has the least impact on the draft, since putting them last basically gives the person who is second to last a 2 pick swing.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

So what you're proposing is that this draft be moved in the rotation so that the person calling the COI is sitting position 5? That sounds reasonable to me.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

A problem still arises in this situation if two teams have approved COIs for a draft. If we have the first and last picks, which are the strongest positions to draft from (At least, for deeper events) declare and approve COI, what rotation do we choose? Say, for two teams that declare COI, they're at positions 1 and 6 in that draft. If we choose the rotation that moves 1 to the 5th draft spot, then the 6th place w/ an approved COI would be in the 1st position for the draft, leaving us with the same conundrum.


Instead, I propose this as a solution:

While this does undermine our goal of rotating everyone through 1st pick, it's just one draft very infrequently and doesn't mean much in the full scale of SLFF. With as many drafts as we run, it won't cause us to deviate significantly from this intention.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

This solution could prevent someone from achieving a first pick in that round which would be a big impact potentially, although i see your point with 2 teams potentially needing COI in which case i feel we combine our two ideas so:

If one team needs a COI we make the draft in which the COI is needed to be the draft that they are in the median pick position, rounded down

If >1 teams need it for a particular draft the draft is rescheduled to be the first in the rotation, the runner for that position randomizes all teams except those in need of COI. After randomizing those teams are put in median position rounded down (With 9 of us that means 5 and 6 with 8 it means 4 and 5) If three or more need it it still proceeds the same (9 people it is 4 5 and 6 with 8 it is also 4 5 and 6)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Technical Difficulties are preventing me from posting tonights draft, more specifically, I can't get the teams list for CVR. https://puu.sh/sCekO/d2be13dfe9.png

(If someone could post it within the next 5 minutes thatd be great)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

294
670
687
751
852
972
973
980
1072
1323
1388
1422
1671
1678
1868
2085
2135
2367
2437
2493
2643
2761
3045
3256
3303
3495
3501
3970
4255
4276
4415
4543
4645
5104
5134
5677
5817
5852
6305
6650
6657
6699

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Thanks :)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Short note: Anybody thinking the CD clock is still late, it's now caught up to the rest of the world.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I highly doubt that there will be two COI requests in the same draft. That being said, I have no problems at all with putting COI drafts in the middle (slots 4, 5, or 6) by swapping with another draft. Note that this means that COI requests will need to be in early, so that they can be announced.


Modified proposal: Standard COI procedure is to use the next draft order that places the requester(s) in the middle of the order, and replace that draft with the COI draft's normal order. (If a COI is known in advance, and a previous draft order works better, that may also be used if that draft has not run yet.) Should that not be possible due to multiple requests, a special draft will be added into the normal rotation as follows: Randomize all non-COI players, then insert all COI players into the middle slots in random order. Rotation resumes after said draft.

Middle of the draft order is determined by number of players in the league.




Speaking of which: Falcon is requesting a COI in Orange County. I sent the reason to Joseph and James last week. (Just our luck, it's a randomization draft.)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

BTW: Random draft order for Greater Kansas City is:

Questionable Decisionmakers
Untitled Team
F3
The Breakfast Company
FIRST Pick
NE Way You Want It
Swamp Life
Falcon
The Regal Falcons

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Hey, when is the Utah thread being posted?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Whenever Joe doesn't afk :'(

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Might have to postpone to Tuesday--hate to take part of a break day away, though.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I got it covered up in a sec :)

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

The yung power outage strikes again, I swear it happens to me atleast 1 draft a year. (My phone wasn't charged when I woke up, so I had no way to contact anyone until it conveniently came up 20m late -.-)

Brennan has all the lists for UT.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Untitled Team and The Breakfast Company have agreed to a trade involving the Greater Kansas City and Central Illinois Regionals.



The trade agreement is:

Untitled Team receives:
#15 overall at the Central Illinois Regional
#4 overall at the Greater Kansas City Regional
#15 overall at the Greater Kansas City Regional

The Breakfast Company receives:
#16 overall at the Central Illinois Regional
#2 overall at the Greater Kansas City Regional
#17 overall at the Greater Kansas City Regional


I tried to enter this into the pending trades sheet, but may not have done so correctly.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

The entry was correct. However, it does help to look at the approved trades sheet. Untitled's #16 was already traded to TBC for the #11. Can't trade the same pick twice.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

That shouldn't have gone through since Untitled double booked us and instead the deal went to QD

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

TRF and F3 have completed a trade (pending approval) involving: Tech Valley, Central Illinois, and Sacramento.

TRF will receive
#1 at Tech Valley
#18 at Tech Valley
#2 at Central Illinois
#5 at Sacramento

F3 will receive
#7 at Tech Valley
#12 at Tech Valley
#1 at Central Illinois
#2 at Sacramento


We both view this a fair trade and hope that the rest of the FF community agrees!

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Woops, my bad. I misread. It's QD and Untitled that swapped spots.

I see TRF and F3 have a trade request up involving Central Illinois--I'll see what I can do on that one.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

One thing that I'd also like to propose is a no-trade draft position rule for district drafts, District champs, and world champs. Seems to make sense to me since these drafts are pretty highly regulated?

It is a bit in the future but worth talking about.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Makes sense for Champs, at minimum. Wouldn't be a bad idea for DCMPs. Those are ranking-determined, not random, so trading slots would kind of work around that determination.

I'd have to think about how much sense it makes for Districts.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I actually think this is one of the things where it makes the most sense; hear me out.

Thus far I personally haven't taken advantage of the trading draft spots but I would do it to go up in certain drafts, for example if I am the 5th pick in Israel but the last pick in Michigan I would gladly trade my day 1 Michigan spot (become the 5th pick for rounds 1 and 2) and keep my number 9 spot for day 2 as I effectively become the first pick.

Now that I think about it, are we keeping that rule or did it get thrown out, basically for those not in the know previously that draft would get randomized for day 1 and it would go 1-9, 9-1, 1-9 like normal but day 2 it would be 9-1, 1-9, 9-1, with the rotating drafts I don't know if we acknowledged it but I think it should stay if we haven't already had this discussion.

Also looking at the sheet if we keep the multiday drafts the way they have been previously then we technically need another random for Chesapeake district. Which I guess for waiver we just flip that draft to make the start of the wavier wire.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

My vote would be no draft pick trades for Champs, DCMP, and Two-day district drafts, since a two-day district draft is pretty effectively "fair" since the order is swapped for the second day.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I agree with the above.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I've just been contacted by Hitchhiker 42 to join F3. Is it fine to people to join in the middle of the season to a pre existing team?

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Normally has to be approved by the commissioner. I don't have anything particular against it.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Alright, I guess I'll wait for Eric's approval. Also, is this in the rulebook and I'm just blind? Might be a good thing to add for the next addition if not.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

It's in the rulebook, under "Team Play", that players on multiplayer teams can be added, substituted, or removed "within reason, with commissioner approval", as long as the team is under the maximum size. We've had this sort of situation before.


Approved, and good luck!

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

3rd times a charm?
Untitled Team and The Breakfast Company have agreed to the following updated trade:

Untitled Team receives:
#4 overall at the Greater Kansas City Regional
#15 overall at the Greater Kansas City Regional
#11 overall at the South Pacific Regional

The Breakfast Company receives:
#2 overall at the Greater Kansas City Regional
#17 overall at the Greater Kansas City Regional
#13 overall at the South Pacific Regional

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I have a proposal... Can the random pick orders for each sets of drafts be released now? It benefits by giving teams a wider scope of what their season willook like. There aren't really any disadvantages of doing this.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

I'm not sure why you would do this....but regardless, this is a function of the draft assistant, which is started when posting a draft. Additionally team lists for the event change (as we experienced at Utah :(), so a random list now will likely need to be changed.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Sorry, what I meant was that the picking order for each sets of draft are released.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

You mean the random team list, or the random draft orders for the entire regular season?


And I can think of a disadvantage if you mean the draft orders, could be a serious one. It's not unheard of for a team to drop out of the league. Going > 1-2 drafts ahead is asking for someone to drop out randomly, causing mass chaos as every draft ahead has to re-randomize and possibly re-trade.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

The draft order... The reasoning behind why not makes sense.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Concerns about an overly unbalanced trade send this one back to the negotiating table.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

Just as a note, Toluca is in the same boat, as randomization triggers at Israel for the DCMP drafts.

The general plan was that the rotation would simply run once again if the remaining drafts were <1/2 of one rotation, and only re-randomize if that wasn't the case.

Oh, right, and about the waiver priority: It's rookie players in order of signup, then returning players in reverse order of last year's finish (as much as possible). Hmmm.... Now there's an idea...

Any objections to running Toluca and Chesapeake on straight waiver priority?

I concur on that. 1-day district drafts are still under discussion, I believe, but I'm leaning towards disallowing trading on those due to the deep fields seen at district drafts.

Re: [FF]: 2017 Season Long Fantasy FIRST
 

So would that mean the order would be the same for both, or reversed, or something else?