Umm.. don't the Disney parks close shortly after the pits close? I remember never using my park hopper cause the parks closed an hour after the pits or something. And after the parks close, all you've got left is Downtown Disney. I suppose shopping and restaurants are fun, but you can get that with a short trip to the Galleria or something. You'd have to ride a bus at Disney anyways, and I'm sure the package hotels would have transportation arrangements if it were in Houston.

Basically, I'm saying that I don't think there was really much to do at Disney after the pits closed either.

Also, I fail to see how boring some of the kids at nationals hurts our cause. If kids are bored cause they can't run off to a Disney park and ignore the competition the just spent 10 weeks doing.... Except of course when their coaches demand that they return to watch their robot's matches. Well I don't think the message has really gotten through to those kids. It would seem to me that they just got on a team to hang out with friends and go to Disneyworld. Anywhos, just my $.02

One thing I don't understand: how is having Nationals at somewhere other than Disney any more of a problem than the regionals? The regionals face the same issues that you talk about, yet for the most part they don't seem to be a problem.

In my mind it's always come down to what was already mentioned on this thread: Nationals will be fun no matter where they are located. Anyone who thinks that Nationals won't be fun if not at Disney should really consider what aspects of FIRST are most important to them.

It's not that we get tired. It has more to do with being more excited about what's going to be happening the next day at competition (and wanting to be ready for it) than what's going to happen that night. Also, what is it that you do at Disney so late? (I'm asking seriously, because I don't know. Haven't been there since 1997.) I thought the parks closed around 8 or 9. I don't recall there being a whole lot to do after that.

Well said Andy!

I dont care where Nationals is as long as the is a Nationals. FIRST is about what we have learned and "showing off" in front of people. If we win neat... I we come in last we had a good time coming in last. That be my opinion.

The parks closed anywhere from 2 to 4 hours after the typcial pit close.

Re: Where will/should nationals be?
 

Ok, so it's Friday, where is this announcement???

What is the message, exactly? I have seen this cropping up again recently in some threads, and it irks me. I strongly resent anyone implying that I or the students are in FIRST for the 'wrong reasons'.

There is no way I can possibly predict how being involved in FIRST can change anyone's life but my own. I have seen people hang around and do nothing, I have seen people join just to travel, and I've seen people join because they love science and technology. None of these things fall squarely within these implied confines of FIRST's mission. But, in reality, I have seen people from each of those backgrounds grow, change, and learn in amazing ways. If I had decided at the beginning that they were in it for the 'wrong reason', I may have deprived them a real opportunity at a better life.

Just because you don't understand someone's reason for being in FIRST doesn't mean it's not the right one - it doesn't mean that they don't understand what's happening.

Instead, I'd argue that perhaps you and those who have shared similar sentiment don't understand the true potential of what's happening here. To limit FIRST to robots, tools, and competition is to strip away its immense potential.

I'll be the first to admit that, as soon as my team arrived in Walt Disney World, I headed for the parks. Competition isn't my thing, it doesn't excite me, and I can still say that I owe some part of my life to this program. Are you willing to say to me, as I begin my 5th year (4th outside of high school, no less) in this program, that I'm in it for the wrong reason? ...that I didn't get the message?

I know what it's like to change lives. I know what it's like to have my life changed. I would never be so presumptious as to deny anyone access to this program - and particularly because I may not fully understand their reasons for joining. If someone shows concern over the competition site because they feel they may not get what they need from FIRST, I'm all ears. I want to know how I can affect more people, not shut them out.

There's the FIRST mission. I don't see anything about going to Disney parks there. I think a kid that's on a team just to go to Disney isn't terribly likely to be motivated to pursue a career in science or engineering. I'll admit that they might start out that way and change later, but really... if they spend all their time at the park, then it's just a school sponsored vacation.

Nor do I see it about getting excided about the Segway, meeting new people, or Cheifdelphi, but does that mean that those are all wrong. I love Disney, and sure, I headed towards the parks as much as I can, but what would it have been like if they all stayed? GRIDLOCK. It was bad enough last year getting around, and would be worse with more kids. I think many teachers send out kids to freshen up and remove congestion.

If you wern't there Kevin, don't comment. But if you were, then I want to know your opinion.

It's great that people enjoy Disney. I always did myself. There's nothing wrong with not enjoying the competition either. A good friend of mine was a very enthusiastic member of his high school team, but didn't care much for the competitions. He chose to go skiing his senior year instead of going to Florida. He still got a lot out of the program. I guess my point is only that if someone is only willing to be part of the team if going to Disney is involved, then yes I believe that person isn't really in it for the right reason. On the other hand, there's people who initially get involved because of the trip to Disney but later on discover that they really enjoy the program and they're no longer just in it for the trip. If this is the case then that means that all of us aren't doing our job very well - we should be able to get kids interested in this program without the promise of a trip to Florida.

FIRST was started in 1992 with the National Championships being held in a gymnasium. Nationals weren't held at Disney until 1995. From what I've seen student interest, participation, and team growth didn't seem to be a problem back then.

I'll add one final thought. Having nationals at Disney can't be cheap. Just think if all the money spent on 3 or 4 day park hopper passes was instead spent on bringing more students to the competition. It would be a great way to allow even more people to partake in the fun and excitement of Nationals.

$20. Anyone want to second? I think it won't be at Huston.

BTW, 4097 ISN'T a team number.

Its not the question of where would FIRST like to hold it, but what places will let FIRST use their stadium, convention center, etc. If FIRST would have a choice where Nationals could be, im sure it would still be at Disney [if at all possible], and this debate and anxious waiting would not be going on.

Also:

Most likely [if the championships were Houston], the astrodome would be the location [if FIRST used a stadium], since it is now dormant to professional sports [since the Astros now have Tropacana Field ]. There is too much of a risk to FIRST if they tried holding it in a stadium that is brand new, and used several times a year for its primary function of football, because if something happened, the Houston Texans upper management & FIRST will have to worry about fixing the surface (or any other part) of the brand new NFL stadium. Stadium repair isnt cheap, and FIRST really wouldnt want throw away money for that.

Houston, Texas from Lubbock, Texas
 

Alright with all this talk about holding Nationals in Houston, Ive considered the possiblitles of where they could hold it. I even bieng a Housonian am still skeptical of it bieng in Houston, but I probably would be the most happiest if it was there.

Thinking about the connections with FIRST and Houston there are two major possibilitles. The two connections are one that they have been holding the Lone Star Regional at Relaiant Arena in Relaint Park, and the other one is NASA.

Here is an arial shot of the area at EPCOT where they hold nationals. EPCOT Center. Its the parking lot in the far right that appearst to be empty except for some tents. I dont know if this is FIRST or some other event. This picture was taken in 1999 so i have no clue. This gives you a perspective of the size of land that FIRST needs to build its complex.

The first possiblity with Reliant park is having it in this huge complex.
Relaint Park
This picture is zoomed out to get a big picture of the complex.
There were large parking lots surrounding the Astrodome and and Arena and Hall complexes in this picture, I know now there is a huge football stadium and new confrence center there and that the parking lot space has been severly cut down but i think the space maybe there. Considering that Football season would be over and baseball is heald at The BallPark at Union Station(i refuse to accept Minute Maid Park) I think this is a possibility. I wonder about having the Playing fields in Relaint Stadium or the Astrodome. And maybe buliding a big tent for the pits. I think that would work. This would be nice becase the facilitles for the playing fields would already be air conditioned. But then we would loose the grandeur of having a single Einstien Field. Also these stadiums are huge complexes with the capaicity of three to four times the amount of people invloved wiht Nationals and then it may seem kinda empty. Also the Acoustics of having eveyone in one closed stadium would be kind of intersting. There is also a possiblity of building a nationals like complex there and that would work too. Lodging and Transportation wouldnt be that bad, Metro busses could be arranged, and becuase its by not only a major sports facility, its by the Texas Medical Center and there are plenty of rooms and places to treat those unfortunate not so close calls in the pits. Entertainment could be AstroWorld.... for one night, then after that I dont know.

Then the other possiblity is NASA. Considering the partnership NASA and FIRST share it seems to be possible. This would be really cool for 118 considering that nationals would be in our back yard. NASA/JSC provides our engieers and we work onsite on NASA facilites. In previous years we worked actaully there in the shutttle mockup facility. Also the three high schools that make up our team Surround NASA and NASA is Right in the middle of CCISD our school district. Then again it would be kind of sad if we didnt qualify considering it is an Odd Team year.
This is an arial shot.NASA/JSC
Having it here we could bulid a complex just like nationals. There is a huge field where you could build it. But here its out in the open and if it rains weather would be a problem. The big problem would be security. To get to this field you have to actually get through security and that would be a huge problem for 15,000 people. Maybe if they fence off this area it may work. The area would be nice becuase it is in the shadow of old Rockets. If you look closely and zoom in you can see the Saturn V rocket. Teams could alos tour the inner workings of NASA like Mission Control and Building 9, the building that holds full sized mockups of the shuttle used for training, that place where we worked for a few years. Parking maybe a problem, teams may have to park at Space Center Houson, the visitor center at the bottom of the picture with the big white parking lots and take trams to the event site. Teams with the machine shop trucks may have to take an extra step and get a security pass and park out on the field. The team party could be heald at Space Center Houson. Wich would be nice. After hours entertainment is alittle thin. There is a Starbucks across the street. Also a Shipley's Doughnuts(for those of you who think Krispy Kreme doughnuts are the best in the world you can taste what many Texans consider the best doughnuts,10x better)(but for those who insit on Krispy Kreme and dont want to try the real deal, there is one nearby) A really nice mall and movie theater nearby. I doubt lodging maybe a problem. Just have to arrange busses to go from hotels to the event site, nothing new there. I think NASA TV is based there so that would be convineietnt. Would would be nice is that all the major TV stations and the AP have trailors at NASA for covering events, becuse it is easier for them to cover it it we may get alittle more publicity.

Me and my friend Josh, have always dreamed about nationals bieng in Houson. Finally it maybe coming true. In Joking around we actaully thought up plans for it bieng here. Im not saying this is how it will be or that I am really conviced Nationals will be in Houson. I felt it would be nice to tell you guys how it may unfold becuse we have done alot of thinking about this.

Also one two more things. The Best Robotics Championship is heald at texas a&m university (aggies(12-0,48-47) :rolleyes: ) which is 1.5 hours away from houson, having it in Houson, and that bieng there would be intersting. May convice those ags to convert some Best teams To FIRST teams. Also George Bush lives near Houson, and Jeb Bush was at nationals last year. We maybe able to get George W. this year and George here and maybe get more publicity. Also becuase of what seems likes Dean's Connecton with them may help us, esp if we hold our events close to them(Florida and Texas). Just some more thoughts

Chris
One of the two radio toting, Leatherman carrying, webpage designing, EE majoring, FIRST junkies on 118's college student Alumni team.
10/18/02 ;)

Ok, I just have to comment about that BEST robotics comment there. There is almost no chance for BEST teams to be "converted" to FIRST teams. There's also no reason for it either. Here's the breakdown:

-- BEST is in the fall, FIRST is in the Spring
-- BEST is virtually free, FIRST costs mucho dinero
-- BEST competitions are less cmoplicated than FIRST competitions
-- BEST emphasizes the kids and the kids ONLY working on the robot. Thus the kids get more hands on experience.
-- BEST teams are scattered all over Texas, so not many would attend anyways.

Finally, the "ags" that you refer to have nothing to do with the decision of the school to participate in a competition. What do you think we do? Hold guns to their heads and force them to compete in BEST? Honestly... do some research before you talk about something.

OK
 

I do know about the Best Competition, Texas Tech University is the West Texas Best HUB. The Electrical Engineering Department runs it. My Academic Advisor heads it. I already knew those facts about Best. I think its a good orginzation. That last pargraph was not really serious. Hence all the Tech vs A&M rivalry comments and Bush family comments. Most people would agree that the expansion of FIRST to more schools is a good idea. I think it may be easier to expand FIRST to schools with a simliar progrm in place, hence the converting Best schools comment. Best is a good program, You have to drive pretty far out of Lubbock to find a school thats not invoved. For some of the schools out here Best is a better option because of the budget and student only aspects. Really my intentions about converting teams were not by forcefull means. My idea about converting teams was that maybe people in the univesity would see a better option for a particular school and think about trying it out. It dosent hurt to try, esp with programs that are supposed to advance the knoledge of science and technology. I was thinking along the means that if some people at Texas A&M saw a school that may be better suited to participate in the FIRST competion, that they be more apt to try it if Nationals were heald in houson. I know there are a few 118 alumni at A&M that would be willing to help mentor a team there. Really my intentions on that comment were tring to show the possiblitys of expanding FIRST and maybe getting a team close to my former teamates and best friend at Texas A&M. I know they do have the resources to sposor a team. Sorry about any missunderstandings, im not trying to diss Best. Im just mainly thinking about expanding FIRST.

Chris
One of the two radio toting, Leatherman carrying, webpage designing, EE majoring, FIRST junkies on 118's college student Alumni team.
10/18/02 ;)

I wrote our mentor who'd been out of town,

"BTW, rumor is championship is in TX, Utah...anywhere except FL.They're going to let us know Thu."

She just wrote me...
"I was at Anaheim for ACSA conference and I heard right here at Disneyland!!!!"

If so, Thank God, for our team it'll be SOOOO much easier financially if it's true.