Why use a manifold?
 

Probably a stupid question but heregoesit.

Today, I learned what a manifold was. In the past,my team just wired our solenoids in series using T fittings, like this


Is there any advantage to using a manifold such as these, other than space savings?

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Fewer connections means fewer chances of leaks in your pneumatic system. This is especially important on any portions of your pressure system connected to your storage. Plumbing your system in series allows for any leaks on the storage side to drain all your remaining reserve air. Using a manifold mitigates the risk of that happening.

There are also weight, size/space, and aesthetic considerations.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Ah. That makes sense. So basically the manifold ITSELF doesn't provide any advantages/disadvantages, but the tubing runs that go along with it do, correct?

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

We use manifolds for a few reasons -

1. Cleaner installation. They are easy to install and mount near the pressure regulating valve.

2. Flexibility with design. We usually decide how many solenoids we will need, and then add one more solenoid than that. As the design develops, we have that extra solenoid readily available to connect to if we add another actuator.

3. Simplified tube routing. A single input line at the manifold.

4. Failures. If a solenoid fails, it is easy to connect the needed lines to the spare solenoid and quickly get back in play.

The negatives are that they are a little heavier, and can be expensive. However, they last several years and can be re-used.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Automation Direct sales manifolds for their valves that is cost competitive with the additional plumbing that singles require. A lot easier to mount one manifold than multiple individual valves.

One reason not to use a manifold is if you trying to minimize pressure losses to a high flow device like a shooter cylinder. Then you want to mount the vavle close to the device and minimize your tubing length. (You could use bigger tubing, but you wouldn't pass robot inspection.)

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Chris covered all of my team's reasons. I just wanted to +1 his last comment. Although we did not end up using pneumatics in 2016, they were a key part of our development strategy in several previous years. We started using the manifold pictured here on our 2014 competition robot, and have re-used it several times -- on our 2015 competition robot and on a few off-season projects.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

I'll add one thing I've seen in inspection... fill all slots on the manifold appropriately! Solenoids attach to them at the top with a rubber gasket to ensure a good seal. If you aren't using one of those slots, either put a solenoid in there anyways (It's always good to have a backup, if you can afford the weight) or put in an appropriate cap that's designed and sold for that use. I've seen teams block unused ports with epoxy or hot glue before, which just means that manifold is coming off the robot when the inspector sees it!

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

I am impressed that hot glue holds air. :]

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Until it doesn't. :eek:

I am glad FRC rules treat pneumatic components as 'sacred'. Use them as designed, and without modifications.

Hot glue doesn't qualify.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Why would the manifold result in worse performance for the shooter?

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

You have a single oriface for air to enter all solenoids, acting as a combined flow limit.

If on separate manifolds the flow limit is decreased (assuming logical tube sizes, tank attachment and layout).

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

The first part makes sense, but are you saying that if you separate the shooter from the manifold you'll have fewer restrictions? Do manifolds have a cv rating?

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Taken to the extreme you mount the valve directly to the port on the side of the cylinder that needs the most speed. Run supply tubing directly back to the working pressure regulator locating the component for the shortest runs and bends possible. This will not take you from worst to first, but might help when you are battling your arch rival on Einstein for the fraction of advantage. (Of which we have not have had that pleasure yet) :]

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Air flowing through tubing offers resistance. If you want quick response like on a shooter or kicker, you want as little tube as possible.

The other reason is to reduce air load. The longer the tube the more air you waste but with no limits on storage this isn't as important as it once was.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Based on some number crunching I did during build this year, it appeared that the fastest cylinder performance would be to have a large tank (at least twice and preferably three times as large as the cylinder capacity) on the working pressure side of the regulator, then feeding directly from the tank to the solenoid valve to the cylinder. We did not get to test this, as it turned out the valves we were using had much too low a cv for this to make a difference.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

I can tell you from experience this is true. This is how we plumed our soccer ball kicker on our Breakaway bot and it made a big difference.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

The other reason to use a manifold is the exhaust air exiting through the manifold makes a cool sound.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Is there a reason for this? I had heard this once our season ended and I was annoyed that we hadn't tried it to fix our shooter.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Always good to know that the math gave the right answer!

Essentially, the air on the working side of the regulator is already there, ready to work. The air on the high side has to filter its way through the pressure regulator, which is not as fast. The tank needs to be significantly larger than the working piston so that there is not too much pressure drop in the supply during the stroke.

Also note that if you are going for a fast stroke, your cylinder should be large enough to move the load (slowly) at a rather low pressure, somewhere around 35psi/(desired acceleration + gravity), with acceleration measured in gees. There will be around 20 psi drop going through the solenoid valve, and pressure reduction as the cylinder extends (or retracts); the remainder is F=ma. (I am assuming here that your fast stroke is for the purpose of working against gravity to throw a ball or other object.)

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Truth. Coolness of sound is, by far, the most accurate figure of merit for any FIRST robot.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

A little of topic but. Bimba, a great supporter of First and is also is sort of the standard of the cylinders that we use has published a handbook on pneumatic design. Sizing of cylinders included.

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

Just to confirm GeeTwo and IndySam,

Attached is a photo of our 2014 Robot, where we used two pneumatic cylinders to shoot the ball.

This shot is a little blury due to the camera DOF at the solenoids, but if you look closely and follow the tubing, you will see that the output of the solenoid, there is about a 1" of tube ported directly to the cylinder. The opposite end of the cylinder was left open to atmosphere.

On the input end of the solenoid, you will see about a 6" piece of tubing, to the bottom of a storage tank. This was a dedicated low "working" pressure storage tank for the solenoid and cylinder. With his set up we were able to shoot just with pneumatics, and also be able to shoot back to back shots, needed for out two ball autonomous.

https://youtu.be/IOU_eZ6CrqI

Re: Why use a manifold?
 

On our 2014 robot we used a pneumatic catapult. We ended up putting a large number of tanks on the working pressure side to assist. We also ended the season with higher CV solenoids than we started with due to performance issues.

One key thing we did was we started logging air pressure on the 120psi side, the working pressure (nominally 60), and at the piston. Key things we learned.
1) The regulator suffers from hysteresis and does not always return to the set point every time.
2) We could have a 30psi or greater pressure differential across the solenoid.

I may still have the data available if anyone is interested.