Build Spaces?
 

Hiya! Our team is currently going through the paperwork and overall bureaucracy to (possibly) obtain a building to use as a workshop. In the past, we've had the good luck to have a member whose father worked on cars, and therefore had a giant workshop we could use. However, that member is now off at college, and for the first time in our team history, we are without a clear space to use.

So we're reaching out to see what other teams have done. Have any of you worked in someone's garage (which we're considering if we don't get the building cleared in time)? If so, how did you stay organized and turn it into a usable space?

Alternatively, once you got into a dedicated workshop, how did you decide what needed to be there? What tools/machinery were absolutely necessary and what just took space? Again, how did you organize and prioritize?

Re: Build Spaces?
 

1257, 1228, and most of the teams I know operate out of their sponsor school. They usually work out of a single classroom and storage room, or the old woodshop, or something similar.

Getting your own building is difficult, as your team would have to "exist" in the legal sense of the word. Either way, best of luck to you!

As for essential tools, I have to say a bandsaw & decent set of wrenches, screwdrivers, and files were absolutely essential to our work. A deburring tool was the icing on the cake though.

Organization is the one skill that can help make *any* workshop work. Perhaps just treating your workspace like a pit will help in terms of organization.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Until last year, we worked out of a trade school. They had all of the machines we needed to make the robot, but not enough space to test it. Further, the school wouldn't let us stay after hours due to school district policy, so we would move to a sponsor building for the late nights.

Last year, the team received a warehouse as a donation from one of our sponsors. We were able to raise enough money to renovate, convert, and use that warehouse as our permanent meeting space. We now have enough space to practice with the robot, a machine shop, and no school district to kick us out after hours. A lot of our equipment was donated (machines, computers, coffee makers...) and we prioritized what we needed. A lot of the effort to make the arrangements for the equipment and renovations were student led.

I wish you guys luck in acquiring a new build space!

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Thank you! We've tried to get a school space, since that would be the best, but our school is already overcrowded. We're lucky to get the storage closet we share with theater, sports, and the janitors :/ I guess we complained loud enough and long enough though, because our school district is the one finding the building for us, and handling the legal jargon. It just takes a while for these things to be processed and verified and voted on and passed and such, so we don't know when we'll get more information. Until then, we're working with what we have!

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Does your school district have any buildings it isn't using? In my area, team 2619 operates out of an old elementary school under the stipulation that they keep the place clean (the school district figures they still have to pay the insurance, maintenance, etc. anyways, so they might as well use it). The nice thing is they have the whole building to themselves so in recent years they've also invited in other local FRC teams to use the space along with FLL and FTC teams in the fall.

Since the school also has a gym, they were able to set up a full time practice field too. ;)

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear our district has any unused space. My understanding of the situation is that the district is going to purchase an old building, not much, something like a shop on a strip, and allow us to use it. So not as sweet as a school, but a start.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Are any of your long-term sponsors owners of machine shops or places where you might be able to work out of? Some of the rookie teams I've talked to have just ended up working out of a sponsor's shop and doing work / internship with them to try and compensate them for use of the shop.

However, the use of an old building seems like a definite step in the right direction. If anything, keep exploring to try and lessen the load on your host school.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

We are very fortunate. One of our sponsors is a company that refurbishes CNC mills. They also have a Maker's Space as part of their operation. So we have access to....anything you could imagine. We operate on our own schedule. We even have enough empty space on their storage floor to set up a partial playing field although there are enough pillars in this old building to make driving a bit of an adventure. Heck, we have our own freight elevator and a 100 year old walk in safe to store things in.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

We are reducing our space (which must serve all storage and build as well) this year. Our first four years, we were in a large science classroom with plenty of storage, though everything had to be locked up every session. Last year, we added a much smaller portable building, which was all ours, but did not have nearly as much electricity or a level floor. This year, we've lost the classroom, and are only in the portable. The biggest issues have been (in the order we recognized them, which is approximately inverse order of importance/problem):

• Where do we store things?
• Where do we set up the freestanding and larger benchtop tools?
• Do we have enough power?
• Where do we put people who are doing things?

We have already scaled back on the amount we stored and have set up. We pitched about half of the stuff we owned over the summer (by mass and volume, not value), including a couple of marginal tabletop tools. Also, unless we get use of another space and power outlet, we are going to have to keep the membership count lower, or find a way to coordinate people who rarely see each other because they are at different build sessions. Our trials with that a few years ago were not promising.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

1523 has a couple of rooms inside of an office building, ironically placed right next to the local news station. The rooms are small, but donated by a sponser, so we can't really complain.

As far as the new team... I think we're currently looking for a space... I'm not sure what the state of that is.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Glad someone else from Columbia is posting on Chief now!

2815 (from 2009-2013) and 4901 (from 2014 on) have been operating out of more or less a one-car garage space at USC. It's very possible to make it work!

STEP 1: Realize you've already got a workspace ideal: 10'x10', otherwise known as a pit space. Lay tape out on the floor and see how much you can accomplish in there.
STEP 2: Figure out how you build your robots and prioritize what items (any items--tools, fasteners, materials) you need. If you aren't sure what's superfluous, you may want to read up on 5S practices. For me, a bare-minimum shop would have a drill press, chop saw with metal cutting blade, power drills, hand tools, files and deburring equipment, and a pop riveter and rivets. I've had great results in the past with similar equipment, and it's a nice foundation for growth as machining resources expand.
STEP 3: These containers with black plastic shelving (which is almost perpetually in stock at Ollie's for cheap) are heavenly for small parts storage. Easy to transport, perfect size for many things we deal with in robots.
STEP 4: Aim for bare countertops at the end of each meeting, barring Very Good Reasons.
STEP 5: A good shopvac will save you a ton of time at cleanup.
STEP 6: Understand that even if they're taxidermied and can't run, storage space for keeping your old robots displayable is not a waste.

(Richland 2 certainly has a relationship with Columbia Mall, which has one whole anchor store empty... #squadgoals)

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Ideally, I think a minimum build space is 1200 square feet (30 by 40). Ideally, something around 2500 feet is better (50 by 50). If you weld, you need a concrete floor and good ventilation. And you will need to be able to move stuff around easily to go from fabricating to clearing out and practicing. 10 foot ceilings are really important. 8 foot ceilings work for building but not much for practicing.

Look for empty retail space. I recall one team (forgot the number) in the upper Midwest was able to get an agreement on empty space in a mall. The mall management company allowed them there for the cost of utilities. I guess the mall was able to take some deduction for allowing a non-profit in there. I think it was an empty Chuck E. Cheese or something. The space was big enough for them to set up a full field… I was so jealous.

Although renting a space is a costly burden on team finances, I know of one other team that rents a space in an industrial park. It’s austere but it has a concrete floor, good lighting, white boards mounted to the walls for brainstorming, benches for working, a roll up door for loading out and in, right next door to a car customization shop so no neighbors to annoy with late night building or loud music. I guess it’s about 30 by 60 feet. It costs about $1K a month. It’s open when a key holder shows up so they could work whenever they wanted as late as they wanted. There’s lots of parking. Maybe the school can help you negotiate something like that.

Can anyone with a school team share if donations to school teams are treated by the IRS the same as donations to 501.c.3 entities? Someone told me last year that the IRS made a rule change making it so school teams could be viewed the same as a 501.c.3 but not being a school team, I can't attest to this.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

We have a total of about 3,000 square feet, and it's not nearly enough. With the machines and equipment, we're constantly bumping into each other, shuffling things around, etc. You'd want at least 5k sq. ft to really feel comfortable in an ideal situation.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

That was team 2846, the Firebears.

My team has had several build spaces over the past 10 years. The first was a parent's garage. It wasn't too hard to keep organized, as all we really had when the season started was the KoP! After that, we moved into a closet in a building downtown that hosted an engineering coop we got to sponsor the team. We could haul stuff out of the closet into the coop after hours to do our work. That expanded during the season into paying very, very little for a couple of months to "rent" some empty office space on the second floor. Then the third floor the next year, and then back to the second floor... finally the school came in and signed an actual lease on a space, did a little renovation to bring it up to spec for us, and we moved in there semi-permanently. After 3 years in the renovated space, the school finally built a STEM center on campus that we moved into, and we'll probably be there forever :)

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Assuming you already have the basics(hammers, wrenches, screwdrivers, etc.), this is what I'd say is necessary...

Hand Tools
Hacksaw(s)
Vise Grips
If you use rivets, you probably already have a rivet gun
Metal files and deburring tools
Quick clamps
Push broom
Punches
Calipers

Handheld Power Tools
Cordless Drills - Easily one of the most used tools in FRC, if not the most used.
Rotary Tool(Dremel) - Can do a lot. Can save space by reducing number of separate tools you need, and great if you have to work in tight spaces. If you use rivets, they're good for cutting off the mandrels that don't break free.
Reciprocating Saw(Sawzall) - With the right blade, will slice through anything, and I mean anything, from PVC pipe to thick reinforced steel. Vibrations can make them a bit inaccurate though. Also be sure whatever you're cutting is clamped securely.
Handheld/Portable Bandsaw - Surprisingly useful, especially for small metal parts. There are even table attachments for them.
Circular Saw - Especially if you don't have the space for a table saw or miter/chop saw. More accurate for cutting wood than a recip saw, and there are metal cutting circular saws.
Jigsaw - If you do a lot of intricate patterns on wood and/or metal, a jigsaw is probably beneficial.
Angle Grinder - If you use a lot of steel or wood screws, an angle grinder is a must. Also one of the most satisfying tools I've used.

Stationary/Benchtop Power Tools
Drill Press - Use this if you need to drill something long, very accurate, and/or through thick material. IMO, it's one of those things that seems like a pointless waste of space until you use it, then you wonder how you went without it.
Belt Sander - Good for heavy deburring of smaller parts where a file would take too long and/or aluminum.
(Horizontal) Bandsaw - Depends on what materials you use, but horizontal bandsaws are great for long pieces of metal. Verticals are good for smaller parts, but that could be accomplished with a portable.
Miter/Chop Saw - If you use a lot of wood or don't have space for a table saw, this will work. I think they also give cleaner cuts than table saws, and can cut at an angle. Has no problem cutting PVC, HDPE, and aluminum with the right blade.
Table Saw - Only if you use a lot of wood or sheet metal and have space for it. The angles on the bumper backing boards can probably be achieved with a chop saw. There are bench top versions that would help with space.
Bench Grinder - Good for making punches and grinding down smaller stuff. You can get by without one.

Vises are essential, and make sure they're securely bolted down.

As for deciding what to keep, I would follow the rule of if you haven't used it in two or more years, you probably don't need it, so it can go. If something is broken, or no longer serves a useful purpose, there's probably not much point in keeping it around.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Team 2877 the Ligerbots uses the Woodshop at our local high school, Newton South High. This has a wide array of woodworking tools that are quite helpful for prototyping. In addition, we have a jewelers CNC with a small cutting area. As well, we have an old metal mill and metal lathe. The lathe is a little wobbly but it is nice to use once in a while. We also have a metal bandsaw, chop saw, belt sander, spindle sander, and bench grinder. It is actually a pretty good sized space with a good amount of work space. There is a room full of computers next to it with creo installed on them. A downside though is we have to put everything away after meetings because the school uses the rooms as a classroom.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Does anyone have a good list of what teams/schools/organizations have recently (past 6 years) built a new dedicated facility for their STEM/STEAM/Robotics programs?

So far I have:
Dos Pueblos Engineering Academy
Hawthorne High School
Katy ISD in Texas

Who am I missing? Looking for more examples here.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

148's school is finishing a new building right now.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

RIP 1717. You are missed.

We're building a new campus incorporating a large two-story fab-lab/shop/makerspace: https://www.oracle.com/d-tech/index.html

PM me if you'd like more details.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Our team's nonprofit, the GEAR Aliiance, renovated a warehouse this last year and now use it as our base for all our STEM programs.

I also know that 4334 bought out an old pet store last year and use that as their base of operations.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Any links related to this? Photos, news article?

Re: Build Spaces?
 

After many years, some more tumultuous than others, 95 has partnered with a technical high school that gives us access to a shop, computers, and our own meeting space. I would strongly encourage that you pursue this model if you can find the right school/champion for your team at a school.

As for what to put in that space... consider what your mentors have expertise in, what processes the team wants to learn, what the existing infrastructure will support, and how much money you can spend on machinery. Many people have strong opinions on what should be purchased, but at the end of the day the details don't matter much as long as you can effectively and holistically utilize your resources and sponsors in your build process.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Peddie School has a new fabrication lab that houses 5895 and if I remember correctly, Dean was there for the opening.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

2177, The Robettes got a new facility at the school. The building was completed mid-season in 2013, and the team moved in later that summer.

6054 and Marlington HS in Alliance OH just finished our shop this week.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Thanks for the replies everyone. Links to pictures, news articles, etc would be really helpful.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

We used to be in the basement of our school, sharing a room with Railroad Club. The school built a new music/fine arts wing, and a couple of old rooms that used to belong to the art department became our workshop (3 to be exact). We moved up into much more space, and finally found space to set up a milling machine and stuff like that.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Queen City Robotics Alliance has been up and running in this facility almost a year. We have 3 FRC, a few FTC, and an FLL team set up in this 10,000 sqft space in Charlotte, NC. Full fields for all three and a machine shop.

http://queencityrobotics.org/

Re: Build Spaces?
 

I don't have any, but I imagine if you contacted 148 they could get you some.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

I'm a new fan of both 987 and 148's build space.
I cant wait until 987 shares what they shared with me on their new and improved work area.
We have 7500 sq ft. of dedicated work spaces, however, it also has a lot of automotive remnants still in our shops. It is also so compartmentalized that we cant put a full size field anywhere.
After seeing 987's one in detail, my main mission and push now is to get a 2 1/2 story building, where much of the space is dedicated to STEM/Robotics.
Estimated costs so far is 11 million.:ahh:

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Thank you for all the responses! Our team definitely has a better idea of how to proceed.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Well team 5980 works in our highschoools band room

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Not a full building, but Union County Magnet High School is renovating a particularly large computer lab and conference room into a new makerspace to support STEM/our engineering vocational specialty. It's not specifically for 1257, but the team will be working there as soon as construction finishes.

My favorite part of it is that the students designed it.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

2855 was based out of a science room closet until last year: basically we had to take everything out and clean everything up each night, costing us about an hour per day.

Last year, however, we took over half of one of our coach's classroom for our shop, with a distinctive divider of bookshelves to keep non-robotics students out of the shop during the school day. Our marketing team worked out of the school's small science computer lab and our other coach's classroom.

This coming summer, our school is doing a major renovation and we have been pushing for a dedicated space. We'll see if we get space later this fall.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

I figured I'd chime in here. 148 was fortunate enough to be given space in a new Career and Technology wing that was added to our high school. In May of 2014 our community voted yes on a $79 million bond to upgrade all technology in the district, tear down and rebuild an elementary school, do much needed maintenance work on all campuses and build a CTE wing onto the existing high school. In that wing we were given about 8000 sqft for a competition arena, a build area, a small machine shop, and a classroom. I have some drawings of the building if anyone is interested but the pictures speak much louder than the drawings! Here is an album of how it looks today. We are still under construction a little, and have a lot more to set up but this gives you a good idea of the space.

https://goo.gl/photos/yqpM27rvg43dW4rv7

Please feel free to contact me with any questions.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

237 has had a 'spare' classroom at the high school since it was renovated 4 years ago. Previously we had mostly worked out of closets and had to clean up and put everything away each night. Most general work was done in the café on the table originally with use of the wood shop and metals rooms for specific tasks. Again, they needed to be cleaned up and put back the way we found them every night too.

We still use the metal and woods rooms but having our own room is the best situation we've been in since the team's founding in 1998. Not having to share a closet and then having things disturbed or worse, disappear, is a luxury!

Re: Build Spaces?
 

There are a lot of options for a build site. My team is fully independent (we are not associated with a school or club) so we don't have a classroom that we can work out of. Because of this my team works out of an office space (graciously given to us by a sponsor) during the off season. During build/competition season we try to get a industrial/wharehouse space donated by a sponsor (similar to how we got an office space donated). If we can't get a space donated, we will work out of the basement of one of our team members.

The way we find a wharehouse/industrial space is by finding a building that is for sale or for lease but has been vacant for a while. With buildings that have been vacant for a while the owners/landlords are usually willing to let you use the space while they are trying to sell it (just make sure that you have something in writing so that they won't kick you out when they find a buyer).

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Recently 2869 expanded its build space into 2 joined rooms. It is not massive but its definitely an amazing size coming off the previous amount of space we have had. The main room is 690 Square Feet. We then have a 3' by 3' closet along with a around 230 square foot side room. In the main room we have all of our tools. Mill, lathe, drill presses, chop saws, table saw, bench grinder, belt sander, metal brake, small arbor press, and small cnc router. Along both sideq walls there is copper piping with pneumatic quick disconnects and there are original outlets everywhere along the walls as the room used to be part of a auto tech lab many many years ago. In the center there are retractable pneumatic and power drops. We then have 8 Hardwood tables. 4 of them are ones we built after we found the wood getting thrown out. Those 4 are about 5' long and 2 feet wide. The wood is about 2" thick and is extremely strong. It was a lot of work to get them to a good looking condition but was well worth it. The homemade ones will hold machines mostly. They are less wide making them better for machines then work. The other 4 were given to us by the school. They are bigger at around 3' wide by 6" long. The tabletop is similar in strength but, the legs on them are going to be stronger. Those tables will be run down the center of the room as well as down the one side wall and will be used for electrical, and assembly. In the main room we also built a loft out of 1/8" thick 1.25*1.25 steel L bracket. This loft is made for sheet material storage as well as long metal storage. It allows that stuff to not get forgotten behind a table and since we had the metal laying around after salvaging it from a shelving unit it was free. The metal stock we use the most is stored under 2 of the machine tables on top of a little ledge. The rest of our materials (Small pieces of aluminum, pvc, wood, and pool noodles) are stored in the closet in a wooden organizer. Along the back wall there is a large folding lunch table with a vise mounted to it. It is the biggest remnant of how we used to work which involved rolling everything into the hallway. This table is very useful because we can keep it down for the building portion of the season for extra space and keep our carpet underneath it. When its time to practice we can fold it up it then taking about 4' by 2' of space and have a carpet fold out. The carpet isnt huge probably 15x15 but its still nice for some practice. The back of the room will also store practice game elements which depending on the game will either be used in our room or brought to a larger room like a gym, or cafeteria. The last few things in the main room are all of our hand tools which are either stored in carts, homemade organizers, or small bins along with all of our hardware which currently needs to be organized. The last bit of stuff that is in our room is the electrical and pneumatic carts.

The side room is connected with a large windowed door from the main room. It also has metal strengthened Windows along 1/2 of it allowing whoever is working in either room to see each other. One side of that room is shelving where we store most of our COTS parts, and other non robotics stuff like T-shirts, tents, banners, ect. We also store our old robots in this room which currently means a single bot from the 2015 offseason ;). There is then a large stack of totes which house some very long term storage. Stuff like our old vex parts and giant resistor collection we probably will only need once every few years. The rest of the room is tables and chairs housing our CAD and Programming teams. There are going to be about 4 or 5 computers in there 3 for CAD and 2 programming. We are still waiting back on a sponsor who could provide us more then enough of both, but for now we are limited to 5. The CAD pc's will also be utilized by the programming team later in the season when most of the CAD is 'done'. This room will be kept much cleaner then the main room as we will also use it to eat during the season. It will contain a mini fridge and microwave and is heated and air conditioned making it an overall nice room to eat in.

So, that's basically it. If you read through that wall of text good job. I mostly wrote it for myself to organize my thoughts and figured someone would probably read it and get a few ideas from it. The expansion is still a work in progress. 4 of the tables are still being built. The center drops still have to be mounted, the mill still has to get wired up, and some remnants of the side room (Computer trash) need to be moved. But overall its going great and having this much space is amazing.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Hi Adrienne,
I had no idea that you posted here until now. Team 148's setup is very impressive. Best part is it's brand new!

Can you send me drawings of the building if possible? I also would like to use your photos as examples.
987 has already shared theirs with me already.

We plan to meet with our legislators later this month after already submitting a needs assessment/request. We plan to also host several town hall meetings prior to submitting our final plans for a legislative bill early Spring.

Can you share what Team 148's facilities cost was of the total funds?

Glenn

I also wanted to share that one of our middle schools in Hawaii recently got a science and technology center built which was unveiled right before we left for China.
Its a 20,684 sq ft building. They normally host our VEX Middle School State Championships and we look forward to trying to 3-peat in their brand new center!
If we can get the requested 11 million, this is the size I want.
http://www.hawaiipublicschools.org/C...edication.aspx

Re: Build Spaces?
 

Ben, our team is in the almost exact situation as your team. We formed completely independent of the school district so don't have that as an option. I have been calling around to some empty spaces but no luck. Has anyone ever looked into self storage locations?

Re: Build Spaces?
 

In the case of QCRA like I mentioned above, we are in an old airport warehouse. Finding industrial space is great for us because we are a community based non-profit and not tied to any school system.

Finding a sponsor with a warehouse, renting the space and fundraising for it, or partnering with an organization where both entities can benefit have been are go to methods for keeping the space alive.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

I can say that having more storage space than you really need is helpful.

Especially when your team doesn't have exact set out places for every nut and bolt.

Re: Build Spaces?
 

As a follow-up, we have identified two unused circuits in our breaker panel (a non-functional 220V heater), and have made this into two 110 circuits, one inside the building (which shall be used to feed drops from the suspended ceiling onto the workbenches), and one outside; these will supplement the single 20A outlet circuit we had previously (it's a bit of a marvel that we never tripped that breaker, given what we've powered from it). We are also building an outdoor workbench off of our elevated boardwalk with a roof and insertable "rain panels" in front of the outdoor circuit.

The bottom line is that unless your build space fully meets (or exceeds) your needs, you must spend some money and effort maximizing what you do have.