[FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

Posted on the FRC Blog, 10/6/16: http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...tration-issues

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

Disclaimer: This is all my opinion. Take it with a grain of NaCl.

How and why does an organization with the breadth of FIRST have such a failure like this? The scale of their org, both in terms of scale and volunteer force would make a proper rewrite very easy (if only considering software.)

I personally believe that FIRST needs to take a page out of the book of TBA and rewrite their whole registration system, top to bottom in a high-performing language like C++ or as a module to the "big 2" web servers. Keeping on ASP.NET does them no favors, and the more dependent on the old software they are the messier it'll be when it breaks again (not if.)

Alternatively, can HP or Dell donate some nice servers to FIRST? Sounds like they need more dedicated RAM. :rolleyes:

I wish the FIRST team the best of luck moving forward, any system failure on this scale is messy...

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

It seems like it's more of a software problem than a capacity problem. FIRST may be a large organization, but even then, they can only do so much to handle so many simultaneous requests. Even companies as big as Apple go down with big product launches.

That being said, I feel that I need to remind everyone that MongoDB is web scale! :)

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

This definitely sounds like a software and/or caching (probably lack thereof) problem.

Keep in mind per Frank's stats some 2,000 teams registered in the last 2 days. With proper scaling and caching there's no reason a well-developed stack couldn't handle all 2,000 registrations at the same time.

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

I'd be willing to wager their ASP.NET server still uses a MS SQL server on the backend somewhere, and each addition to the API has just been stacked on top of the old one.

Old datasets can be a pain to manage, but MS SQL *does* have a dump feature to export the DB to SQL / CSV that could then be imported into a DB lang of choice.

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

FIRST is a non-profit operating on a shoestring.

The launch of the new website last year caused me consternation.
I don't like change, but I can adapt.
I let my feelings be known about how I felt the new website to be juvenile.

On the + side, I received a personal phone call last week about my emailed complaints.
When I clicked the "contact us" link from my Dashboard, I ended up in a "do loop".
The person who contacted me seemed to be responsive. We'll see if that issue gets fixed. They have bigger fish to fry today.

IMHO, FIRST has subcontracted duties to parties that are not top tier teams.

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

I just want to throw an idea out for a second.... Just let me know where this falls on the spectrum of Great Idea <--> Bat #$% Crazy....

Why not open source TIMS/STIMS and the FMS Web Backend/API and let the teams hack* on it?

The devs that put together and manage TBA have done a great job managing it and handing load and caching. I'm sure as a community we could do far better, and provide more resources (eyeballs, time, talent) than what is available to FIRST IT.

* Hack - as in the old/original definition

(And yes, clearly, game elements for the unreleased games would need to be managed in a closed repo....)

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

Closer to the crazy side, I'm afraid.

It's not that FIRST couldn't use something like that. But for a variety of reasons, it would just about have to be locked down much of the time, as far as editing/access. Which... let's go with that's about where we're at now.

There are some really, really good reasons to NOT let a lot of people at this problem. If I start with names/addresses of many FIRST folks, I think you'll understand.

While something built by teams could be a good base, I don't see it being the final product by any means.

Oh, and then there's the (lack of) comment problems...

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

Have you ever heard of a back door?

Suppose someone on team XYZ puts in a (relatively obscure) back door. It's in open source, but members of teams ABCD, EF, and GHIJ discover it. What do they do? Blow the whistle, or be one of the handful of teams that jump to the head of the line? Put my vote down for B$C.

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

Simply put, The website is a continuous black eye for our wonderful organization. I hate to say this, as I respect so many in FIRST, but the whole website just plainly sucks.

I hate it. I cannot find things easily, it is very frustrating, not user friendly, and I just grit my teeth and do everything possible to avoid the website and system. When I have to use it, I would rather write an essay, speak in front of my peers, wear only my underwear to work, and go without Star Trek for a year. I have have even considered getting my wisdom teeth removed instead of using the website.

Give us back our old system. Atleast I could find my way through it.

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

Sorry FIRST, but I'm with weberr here. We really need the old website back. I cant imagine what its like for new teams, when I at least know what I am looking for by my previous experiences using the site.

The best registration system was the one that had all of the events listed on one set of pages (iirc). 2 categories in boxes. Event capacity, no. of slots left. The box was color coded. It turned a certain color once no. of slots left became low or another color when event was full.
In a snapshot, you could see all the information you needed without having to navigate endlessly just to find out 1 piece of information.
You could click on links to see who was registered for the event and not have to use the search bar everytime you needed to find something.

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

FIRST has been going through website redesigns for many years.
The old website had a slew of problems as well and was far from perfect.
They still need time to get the bugs worked out on the latest design.
If you have suggestions on how to improve the system, I recommend submitting your feedback to FIRST.

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

Meh. Sure, there's more they could have done. Here's the thing about "software", coming from someone who's done "it" and only "it" for 14 years professionally.

"Why didn't ABC use XYZ?" completely ignores any actual tradeoffs or decision making an organization does based upon things we as teams do not know are considerations. No, FIRST doesn't need to be so transparent in their minute decisions. In aggregate I bet teams spend more money on coffee and pizza than on their robots and yet we do not expect any transparency from coffee growers or milk farmers about their products and services.

Web tech changes every 9 months or so. Most of the new stuff is crap, full of bugs, full of leveraged software's bugs, and doesn't integrate well without a bit of very specific, specialized knowledge. Stuff that's been around a few years is just now being analyzed for tradeoffs versus the older technology. Sometimes a new tech is great, sometimes it's crap. It's an early-adopter's common fallacy that old = irrelevant and useless.

"They're THIS big, why isn't this process better" completely plays into the software fallacy about adding more people to a project will get it done sooner or better. Since testing is usually the #1 thing that has its schedule cut when approaching a deadline, I'm going to guess they ran out of time to test large quantities of simultaneous connections.

"My high school students could have done this better" (heard elsewhere on social media) is a complete lie or pipe dream. Even the best high school teams lack what it takes to get something out of "sandbox" mode and into production at scale before a deadline - unless they have help from seasoned veterans. 90% of college kids have the same issue. Even most of the 'black box' stuff I received from post-grad researchers made so many assumptions about environment and lacked any kind of deployment or scale consideration.

Their re-structuring of the problem for 2018 seems like a much better way to scale registration.

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but what does the "FMS Web Backend/API" have to do with registration/the website?

Re: [FRC Blog] Regional Registration Issues
 

I think they can do better.

Migrating the application to Amazon Web Services would be a start. AWS has the services in place to auto-scale and to auto-descale based on the load. So FIRST would pay when the scaling is needed, and not pay when the scaling is no longer needed. AWS is one example of several cloud services available.

Scale testing is easily doable, both from a software and a money standpoint. I was using JMeter years ago to do load testing on my websites. JMeter is still used, and I would bet several others are available as well (both commercial and opensource). It is not hard to do load testing.