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Location of Georgia District Events
As a part of an Atlanta based team who will be driving over an hour to our closest district event this year, I decided to map out all of the Georgia FRC teams and the location of our four district events this year to see how far other teams will be having to travel too. The results are kind of shocking as it appears that none of the district events are in parts of the state where we have large clusters of teams. I figured others may be interested in seeing the map and I am interested to hear what others think of this. I know here in Georgia, hosting events at high schools tends to be frowned upon, but I think it is a bit much to go this far out of the way of teams just to find non-high school venues to host events.
Map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13d...rA&usp=sharing *If I forgot a team or have a team in the wrong location please let me know so that I can fix it! |
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That being said, there is a reason the completions are so far away, and it isn't on purpose. This is already being worked on for next year. High school are just too small to host FRC competitions. Anyone who was at the KSU event last year knows how tight that was, and high schools would most likely be smaller. Hopefully next year we will be able to secure sole venues in the Kennesaw/Marietta/Roswell/Alpharetta area. |
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17 of our competitions are in high schools. |
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While it is a noble effort, I believe that a convention at the state championship, ALA the Championship Event would be better to educate and raise awareness of in-state engineering and technology degree programs. The district events themselves should be cheap and easy to travel to. |
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When I said high schools are too small I did not just mean space, but also resources. For example for Riverside Military Academy, we have to bring in a generator for power (which is a big hassle). Highs school venues simply are not designed to hold large events. In addition, High Schools tend to put school events first, making it hard to find a date that works for us the them. As for the reason we went for Riverside Military Academy over KSU, it wasn't our choice. KSU said no to hosting both GRITS and a District Event (due to basketball). We did try to find another venue in the area but were unable to do so. This is why we went with Riverside Military Academy. One thing to note on Riverside Military Academy is that although it is a high school, it is definitely not a high school gym. This venue is about 7x the size of all the high school gyms we looked at. You could almost fit 9 full basketball courts inside the room. So this high school worked out size wise but most high school don't have a venue event remotely that large. |
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So hopefully, a proper dedicated facility can be built on campus, then KSU can host many many events with much love. |
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Yeah, 4941 was planning to go to Columbus, but it was full when we registered for our second event and now we have to go all the way to Gainseville and deal with the Atlanta traffic on load in day. The Perry regional in 2015 was nice for us, and I think Peachtree and Perry were fairly central locations for Georgia teams that year. I would think that if we could get the Congress center in Atlanta for district champs instead of UGA (not many teams very close to Athens although a great venue), then it would be more centralized for pch teams. But things probably won't get changed to fit distribution of teams until more teams in southern and central Georgia emerge.
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Of course not all high schools have the capacity to work. Hosting an event requires at least two large buildings on campus at a minimum, plus appropriate connecting hallways and paths. You need seating for all the teams, plus a some extra for VIPs and people off the streets. And no, it's not going to be as glamorous as Worlds. Sometimes, there are miscommunications and schedule issues, but colleges are exactly the same way. But it doesn't have to be, and overall, I at least find high schools to be better venues than the locations we had last year, not worse. Stadium seating is nice, as it produces good sight lines and better seats than bleachers. But when you barely have a hundred people in the stands, then it looks much, much worse than any gym. I would rather have a filled crowd, actively engaged in the game and making for an exciting environment rather than an empty stadium and playing in front of nobody. The problem you seem to be referring to is not the seating, however, but the space in the pits. And there I agree with you. At both Albany and KSU, there were barely enough rooms for the teams there, not to mention a practice field and any other important resources. But just because the venue has less seating doesn't mean pits will be smaller. Most high schools with a second gym would much more easily fit a practice field and 40 pits than KSU fit a half field and 36 teams. I'm well acquainted with the Chesapeake district, and I got a large amount of feedback that supported Southwest VA in Christiansburg, VA as a one of the best venues in 2016. Can you guess where that one was held? You don't need nine basketball courts to have a fantastic event. As we have found with Kennesaw and many other universities this year, there will be challenges to getting the exact right locations. Am I a fan of the locations of the events? Absolutely not, but they could be worse. Do I enjoy the massive amount of seating capacity these venues have? I don't see anything else as more pointless. But I understand why these locations are where they are. I do believe that if you want to drive team growth in an area, there are few better ways to do so than have events there. So while there really should be an Atlanta-based event (inner-city team travel is a very big issue), I understand where GeorgiaFIRST is coming from. High schools will eventually become the norm. I just hope it's sooner rather than later. Sidenote: Both Albany and Dalton are associated with technical colleges in the area. Gainesville is truly connected to Lanier Technical College, which hosts their athletic events at Riverside Military Academy. All of this partnership is designed to help nurture a great relationship between the universities and technical colleges of GA and GeorgiaFIRST. |
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The other nice part of "Arena" scale events is you can have the local community tie into the event. The Columbus event was part of a Mini MakerFair, and was used by the local schools to drum up interest in STEM for the grade and middle-schoolers who don't have FTC/FFL Teams yet. On a purely selfish note: Things like a Loading Dock and proper facilities to accept Semis make load in and load out much easier on the volunteers. I got to experience 2 years of helping load in and load out a off season high school based event back in '10 and '11 when the field fit in the back of a 27' box truck. The one bay loading dock was off the lunch room kitchen. Some of the road cases barely fit and required some expert maneuvering. It sounds silly, but even the little things like this make a big difference when it comes to how smooth an event can go. |
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I have no dog in this fight, but I will contribute the following:
1) Ooof, yeah, I would've thought the Atlanta metro area would've been able to line up something. 2) This should be incentive for metro Atlanta teams to work on a bid for next year. I don't know the Peachtree process and couldn't find it on their website, but if it's anything like the IndianaFIRST process (which played out, in part, one desk over from me at work so I started to get a handle on some concepts) I doubt they'd mind having additional viable host options. Like Ed Barker said above, venue availability is everything for where district events can be held. Reach out and ask. 3) I had heard once that the Horry County school district is a sponsor of the Palmetto Regional partly because it's cheaper for them to incentivize the event in Myrtle Beach than pay travel for their teams to play elsewhere. With the Atlanta schools pooling on travel, that may be an angle to work with the powers that be. |
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But the idea that we had appropriate sized crowds any event, but especially Albany, is ridiculous. There were probably around 100 people in the stands at any given time during quals at Albany, in a stadium designed to seat several thousand. Call me crazy, but that's not appropriate: that's tons of wasted space. Don't even get me started on Columbus. We've all been scarred by the astro turf. Quote:
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I am going to make a statement here about what I perceive districts should be. The events should be smaller than what we currently do in GA. The events should be no more than 24 teams, is the concept of district smaller events with more of them? Look at Michigan, they hold them in High Schools and can do that due to the smaller size.
We all heard more plays per dollar by going to district and I did not see that come about, for many teams the chance to qualify for Worlds is higher. I would like to see some other teams show there cost per play from last year. Personally I believe there are teams that can afford the registration that includes two events but the travel cost only allows them to participate in one I do believe some of the holdbacks to having more events is the cost to GAFirst for fields and equipment and not to mention the limited number of volunteers they pull from. If the state DOE ever got on board then the high school avenue may come to play but without their support I do not see it happening. Oh, and please refer to my post last year about the district model and cost and locations of events. Like it or hate it, it is a reality of the dollar ruling life. We go where the dollar comes from via sponsor and support. Not happy about the travel/cost but have to live with it until another viable solution presents itself. |
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The number of fields certainly does limit the number of events as with the new split champs the goal is to have all the district events in weeks 1-5 and DCMP week 6. The field and all of the rest of the supporting equipment is not cheap so it doesn't make sense to go to a second field until you have 90 plus teams. HS sizing does play a role in the number of teams you can have at an event. There are a couple in the PNW that have had caps lower than 40 teams in the past because there just wasn't enough pit space. Selecting the locations is a lot of work. You do have to work around the other things the locations may have scheduled, the desire to spread them around the area and to try and have week 2 not next door to weeks 1 and 3 ect so that hopefully it is a reasonable possibility that teams don't have to do back to back events if they choose the two closest events. For example in the PNW we have two events in the same town/school district. One is traditionally week 1 and the other has been week 6 or 5. Then of course are the amenities at the school are their 2 20a circiuts in the gym to run the FMS and the AV so they can run on separate circuits. What about the pits you need 1 20a circuit per 4~6 teams and another for inspection, pit admin. If you don't have that then you need a generator and power distribution system which adds to the cost. In the PNW we did spend the money for two power distribution systems and we have a great partner in a rental company that gives us reduced rates for generators and fork lifts. TL/DR; Selecting locations for district events is not easy with a number of things that have to be considered and all come together with the other locations as well. It is not an easy task and takes a lot of person power. |
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And yeah, the idea is to make smaller events and have more of them. That's how the district model works. Quote:
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The DOE on board would definitely help, but by no means is it a requirement. It just takes some teams working together with local partners to put an event on at the local HS. |
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We might be able to do a 5th qualifying event in a year or two, but it definitely won't be a smaller event. We aim to have around 30 teams per event (this isn't decided fully by us, FIRST has a big say in how many teams per event and how many events per district.
The main reason we don't have more events is cost. The events are EXPENSIVE to put on. They are even more expensive is we have overlapping events. Not only does it take a lot of money, but also man-power. Georgia is currently set up to NOT be able to handle overlapping events. We have purchased our AV system, out power distribution system, the field, and A LOT of other stuff. This substantially cuts down on cost. If we have overlapping events, we then have to rent a large amount of equipment to support the second event. Now I know what you are thinking, we did it last year with Albany and Dalton. Well there is a reason we are not trying it again this year. Those events were FAR too expensive and did not nearly have enough volunteers. So overlapping events is out of the picture (for as long as possible). A 5th event is definitely possible in a year or two, once Georgia has more teams, but this event definitely won't have 24 teams attending. It will be much closer to 30. Location wise, I would like to see events in the filling places: - Marietta/Kenessaw - Gainsville - Columbus - Inner-City And the put state at the Georgia World Congress Center or Philips Arena (expensive but definitely doable). The reason for these locations is partially because of where teams are located and partly because of venues. |
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Not sure Columbus makes a lot of sense long term. There's only a couple teams down there, and it fills well because it's on the Interstate system. But I think it would be better to have one in Macon and another in Savannah/Statesboro. The teams in Southeast Georgia really get the short end of the stick, and having an event out there would not only really help growth, but also decrease the enormous travel costs those teams have. So the breakdown would be: - Marietta - Gainesville - Inner-City - Macon/Clarkson/Perry - Savannah/Statesboro - DCMP: Athens or Atlanta |
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Disclosure: I don't represent GAF in any way. I don't even represent my team on this forum
We hosted Grits (Georgia's off season event) last year at our school. Along with a lot of help from GaF and our friends. We had enough pit room for 30-35 teams. 40 would have been squeeze. A long time NE district mentor/volunteer that attended told me that we could have hosted a district in the same space. One of GAF's goals with working with colleges is FRC students are a natural feeder for the colleges. Benefits are for more tangible than space for the competition. Kennesaw college already provides time on their water jet. GaTech has helped in a lot of ways. Of course they did that way before districts. Albany tech has spawned a bunch of teams. I wouldn't be surprised to see more teams in the Columbus area as well. (Columbus is at a different location this year. Bouncy field is no more) Georgia's First's goal is to represent all of GA. Not just Atlanta Metro. Although it would be nice to place one district where the bulk of the teams are. (Phillips & GWCC both not a possibility price wise) Current district registration; Gainesville 32-full, Dalton-26, Columbus-32-full, Albany-22. So for now 3-4 districts is about right. For those of you unfamiliar with Ga topography: Gainesville is practically north Atlanta. Dalton is 1 hour NW of Atlanta. Columbus is 2hr SW of Atlanta on the interstate adequate infrastructure. Albany is 3 hours south of Atlanta and smallish infrastructure wise. Other state possibilities are Augusta-home of Savannah River Plant & Augusta National Golf (3 hrs), Georgia Southern & Statesboro (3.5 hrs in tha middle of a swamp), Savannah (4 hours on the coast). |
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Which, while exactly what the rules dictate, would've been the biggest load of horse manure for the #1 seed ever. They couldn't even capture, since that by rule calls for three robots. The reward for being the top seed at the event would almost certainly be a swift quarterfinal exit. So yeah. 30-something is a healthy number. |
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Event 1: Palmetto Regional vs PCH District - Columbus Event 179 Cost: $5,000 1261 Cost: $5,000 179 Number of Matches: 15 (9 Qualifying + 7 Eliminations) 1261 Number of Matches: 16 (12 Qualifying + 4 Eliminations) 179 Cost Per Match at Event:$333.34 ($555.56 per Guaranteed Match) 1261 Cost Per Match at Event:$312.50 ($416.67 per Guaranteed Match) Event 2: Rocket City Regional vs PCH District - Albany Event 179 Cost: $4,000 1261 Cost: $0 179 Number of Matches: 16 (10 Qualifying + 6 Eliminations) 1261 Number of Matches: 18 (12 Qualifying + 6 Eliminations) 179 Cost Per Match at Event: $250 ($400 per Guaranteed Match) 1261 Cost Per Match at Event: $0 ($0 per Guaranteed Match) 179 Total Cost For First 2 Events: $9,000. $290.33 Per Match. $500 Per Guaranteed Match 1261 Cost For First 2 Events: $5,000. $147.06 Per Match. $208.34 Per Guaranteed Match So after our first two events this is how we compare cost analysis wise. This is why districts save teams money. Looking at what every team is guaranteed specifically regardless of robot quality you are at a greater than 50% discount from my team after our first two events. But both our teams decided to do more than just 2 qualifying events so lets look at our third events to see our cost analysis there. Event 3: South Florida Regional vs PCH District - Kennesaw Event 179 Cost: $4,000 1261 Cost: $1,000 179 Number of Matches: 18 (9 Qualifying + 9 Eliminations) 1261 Number of Matches: 19 (12 Qualifying + 7 Eliminations) 179 Cost Per Match at Event: $222.23 ($444.45 per Guaranteed Match) 1261 Cost Per Match at Event: $52.64 ($83.34 per Guaranteed Match) So your third event costs 1/4th what mine did, and shows by being less than 1/4th of the cost per match because you get more matches. Looking at the season after your third event the totals come to: 179 Total Cost For First 3 Events: $13,000. $265.31 Per Match. $464.29 Per Guaranteed Match 1261 Cost For First 3 Events: $6,000. $113.21 Per Match. $166.67 Per Guaranteed Match So after all of our comparable events you are spending less than half of the amount of money. But to be far before we get to championships you did have one more event. Event 4: Peachtree District State Championship 1261 Cost: $4,000 1261 Number of Matches: 18 (12 Qualifying + 6 Eliminations) 1261 Cost Per Match at Event: $222.23 ($333.34 per Guaranteed Match) So lets compare the entire season leading up to Championship: 179 Total Events: 3 Total Cost: $13,000 Average Cost Per Event: $4,333.34 Average Cost Per Match: $265.31 Average Cost of Guaranteed Match: $464.29 1261 Total Events: 4 Total Cost: $10,000 Average Cost Per Event: $2.500 Average Cost Per Match: $140.85 Average Cost of Guaranteed Match: $208.34 So your team was able to attend more events, for less money, had more matches per event, and just for fun it appears that based on Distance and time from the location of your school to the events you only needed to stay over night for your first two events, and with those events being districts that is two nights in hotels total. My team also had to do an overnight travel for two of our events, but since we are regional team, and our distance was quite a bit further (1261 Travel Distance/Time: 172.5 Miles or 3 hours average distance. 179 Travel Distance/Time: 703 Miles or 11.5 hours average distance) we had to stay a total of 8 nights. So assuming that the cost of hotels wasn't drastically different our cost for travel was roughly 8 times greater per person. I am sorry if this is coming off as an attack but I just don't think you realize how much of a great deal switching to a district is, and how much more effort a team not in a district has to put in to be able to compete at 3 events. |
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Gainesville is approximately 1 hour north of Atlanta. Dalton is approximately 1.5 hours north of Atlanta. If we're getting technical here, I would define North Atlanta as the area formed between I85, I75, and I285. Inner-Atlanta teams (4468, 1648, etc.) can probably speak more to this, but depending on where you live, I would consider Gainesville a travel event. - Sunny G. |
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I am not really arguing Kristen's point that it would be nice to locate at least one District in the epicenter of teams. And yes if you are an ITP (inside the perimeter) Gainesville is either a long commute or a travel district. |
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Dalton has no relevance in the Metro Atlanta discussion. It is not a home event for any team close to Atlanta (that's not in Cobb County). |
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OK I will concede that the city of Atlanta is actually a small but important part of metro Atlanta. (I grew up inside to the city limits for what it is worth) It doesn't even make it to the perimeter except on the NW side. Sandy Springs fought a long battle not to be in Atlanta. But if you look at Kristen's map, Most of the "Atlanta teams" are outside the city limits. I will even concede that most teams will consider Gainesville a travel event.
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Regardless, I agree with you. Anyone who isn't near or on I-85 in the North Suburbs is probably not going to commute on Sunday morning. Frankly, any event (or two) in North Suburbs or in the city would suffice as a local event for all "Atlanta teams". |
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