Chief Delphi - [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

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Bkeeneykid

18-11-2016 18:25

[FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Posted on the FRC Blog, 11/18/2016: http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...7-first-choice

Quote:

It’s the time of year where we talk about what to expect from FIRST Choice. This blog should have all the information needed if you’re new (or need a refresher), but can also be skimmed by experts to get the gist. Here goes…

We’re doing FIRST Choice again. If you already know what FIRST Choice is, you can skip this part. If you’re still reading, you’re a rookie team, want a refresher, or can’t resist reading something you were told you could skip.

I’ll start with a general introduction of what we mean when we talk about the “Kit of Parts” (KOP). The KOP is a term that’s evolved to mean “goods we obtain from companies on behalf of, and provide to, FRC Teams.” These items then get to you, our customers, via three different methods:

the Kickoff Kit: items that we pack in totes (mostly in totes, there are typically exceptions for late or big items) and distributed to Teams at local Kickoff sites. There are two permutations of this – one set of items that go to all Teams and a second container that goes to 1st year, aka “Rookie,” Teams
the Virtual Kit: items donated by Suppliers, but don’t actually come to FIRST for redistribution. Custom orders (like Bimba cylinders), software downloads, and Product Donation Vouchers all fit this category.
FIRST Choice: FIRST Choice consists of an online menu of items available to 2017 FRC Teams, and it’s hosted by our friends at AndyMark (for free!). Its purpose is to make available a variety of goodies that Suppliers cannot provide in volumes to support all of the Kickoff Kits. Instead, Teams use a limited number of credits to pick and choose the items they prefer. Because of the limited inventory, we typically run out of popular items, but we’d rather make a variety of items in limited quantities available than none at all.

Priority Lists are back, and we’ll do two rounds (one before Kickoff and one after Kickoff). The Priority List process remains unchanged, and it’s illustrated in more detail here. Based on our experience from the previous two seasons, we believe that what it lacks in simplicity, it makes up for in user experience and satisfaction. The Priority List is optional, and the deadline for Round 1 Priority Lists is noon (Eastern Time) on Tuesday, December 6, 2016.

Each Priority List created by the deadline (one per Team), will be assigned a random rank. The order in which individual teams complete their Priority Lists before the deadline does not affect their rank. All teams that add at least one item to their Priority List by the deadline are put in a common pool and then randomly sequenced. This is what we mean by ‘random rank.’

Then, in rank order, AndyMark’s auto draft system will query the Team’s highest priority item and, provided the Team has the credits and FIRST Choice has the inventory, issue the item to the Team. This applies to each Priority List line item as ranked. If the team doesn't have enough Credits to cover the entire amount (but at least one) or FIRST Choice inventory doesn't have the entire quantity (but at least one), the team will get as many as their credits/FIRST Choice inventory allow. If credits or inventory can’t cover one, it will move on to the next ranked item so the team is not skipped for that round.

Once it gets to the last ranked Priority List, the draft system will query that last Priority List’s next item and work its way back up the ranks (for Teams that know how we’ve done Alliance Selection in the past, this serpentine process probably seems familiar). This draft continues until inventory’s gone or Priority Lists have been exhausted. Inventory will be updated for when FIRST Choice opens for traditional “first come, first served” live orders.

Some new things:

We’ve added sample lists like “pneumatics” or “vision”. You can select a sample list for your priority list – or use it to get started and edit/customize as you see fit. Caution though, when you select one it will wipe an existing list and start fresh.

A little disclosure: Any motors you see available in Round 1; you can assume they’ll be legal on your robot.

A few other notes about the process:

Login information will be posted in each Team’s registration account (your Lead Coach/Mentor 1 and 2 will see a button labeled “Access Passwords/Voucher Codes”). Only registered FRC Teams will have access to their login information, and thus only registered Teams will be able to create and submit a Priority List.

Priority Lists will be created using (and only accepted via) the Priority List feature on AndyMark’s FIRST Choice site.

Shipping charges will apply (details to be posted on FIRSTChoiceByAndyMark.com before Priority Lists are due), and just like last year, a billing address, shipping address, and credit card information must be provided before creating your Priority List. For international Teams, additional charges may apply, for which the Team is responsible and AndyMark will address on a case by case basis.

Priority Lists are saved each time the user clicks “Update,” letting teams add, subtract, and reprioritize items until the deadline.

Upon the deadline, any existing Priority Lists will be locked, processed, and no additional changes may be made (we strongly encourage you complete your list at least a day before the due date to avoid unexpected delays or surprises).

We will not publicly publish Teams’ Priority Lists, the assigned rankings, or final order contents.

Any priority list submitted by a Team that has not secured first event registration payment with FIRST by noon, 12/6/16 will be discarded before lists are ported in to the auto draft system (please anticipate at least one business day for registration payment to be processed and the updated status to be relayed to AndyMark).

So, the timeline for FIRST Choice is as follows (all events happen at noon, Eastern):

ROUND 1

Code:

11/21/16        Round 1 begins, FIRST Choice login information in the Team's registration account (for registered teams) and credit allotments live at FIRSTChoiceByAndyMark.com

12/06/16        Round 1 Team Priority Lists due (with any unsecured teams' list discarded)

12/08/16        AndyMark notifies each Team of the Round 1 draft results

Traditional Ordering

Code:

12/12/16        FIRST Choice opens for traditional live orders

01/06/17        FIRST Choice closes

ROUND 2

Code:

1/07/17        Round 2 begins, additional credits issued (unused credits do carry over)

01/13/17        Round 2 Team Priority Lists due

01/17/17        AndyMark notifies each Team of their Round 2 draft results

Traditional Ordering

Code:

01/20/17        FIRST Choice opens for traditional live orders

04/7/17        FIRST Choice closes for the 2017 season

I’d like to take this opportunity to thank AndyMark for their generosity and commitment to improving the FIRST Choice experience. They donate such a valuable service, and we’re so happy they’ve continued their support.

If you have any questions about this process, please feel free to ask in the comments below or post them to the FIRST Choice Forum.

Quote:

Poster's Note: Or just Chief Delphi. You don't need any other forum.

SenorZ

18-11-2016 18:50

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

I honestly have no idea how many thousands of dollars of useful stuff we've gotten through FIRST Choice over the years. But all of it has gone to good use.

Looking forward to seeing that list on Monday.

Sam Skoglund

18-11-2016 19:01

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

"A little disclosure: Any motors you see available in Round 1; you can assume they’ll be legal on your robot."

Does this mean that we will be seeing new motors for FRC this year???

Bkeeneykid

18-11-2016 19:16

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Skoglund (Post 1616878)

"A little disclosure: Any motors you see available in Round 1; you can assume they’ll be legal on your robot."

Does this mean that we will be seeing new motors for FRC this year???

One can only hope. I'm personally hoping for some new legal electronics (like MXP expansions) that I can gawk over and then realize we don't have enough in the budget to buy them.

SenorZ

18-11-2016 19:22

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Skoglund (Post 1616878)

"A little disclosure: Any motors you see available in Round 1; you can assume they’ll be legal on your robot."

Does this mean that we will be seeing new motors for FRC this year???

Probably... and they don't want us emailing them immediately after seeing them!

Beachbotics

21-11-2016 08:45

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Is this now live - I do not see the Access Passwords button. I am logged into the firstinspires site, looking at the list of Team Tasks under the Dashboard page. Am I looking in the right spot? We are registered for 2 events.

Beachbotics

21-11-2016 08:48

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Edit: And I am a lead mentor (and showing as lead mentor in team roster).

Joe Ross

21-11-2016 08:54

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachbotics (Post 1617040)

It's not live yet.

Quote:

So, the timeline for FIRST Choice is as follows (all events happen at noon, Eastern):

Beachbotics

21-11-2016 08:57

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Thank you, did not read carefully.

kstl99

21-11-2016 12:48

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

I did not see this anywhere - How many credits will each team get round 1 and round 2?

SenorZ

21-11-2016 12:48

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbysq (Post 1617076)

Something tells me that minibots aren't as fun as I thought they were.

Depends on how the game scores them. If the points advantage is big, then you end up building two separate robots, and it is stressful. If the points aren't huge, it is a distraction.

Lil' Lavery

21-11-2016 13:05

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Not going to spend our FIRST Choice credits on them, but all the different colors of shaft colors makes me happy.

Mark McLeod

21-11-2016 13:25

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstl99 (Post 1617080)

I did not see this anywhere - How many credits will each team get round 1 and round 2?

750 credits for round 1.

kstl99

21-11-2016 14:59

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 1617098)

750 credits for round 1.

Thanks!

Cothron Theiss

21-11-2016 15:09

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Has anyone used the 3d printer filament offered this year? Any reviews of it?

Michael Hill

21-11-2016 15:29

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

So. Many. Shaft. Collars!

In oh so many colors!

Michael Hill

21-11-2016 15:38

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

If someone wants to update this spreadsheet for 2017, that would be awesome. I'll probably work on it tomorrow

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...w3k/edit#gid=0

Cothron Theiss

21-11-2016 15:45

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1617132)

If someone wants to update this spreadsheet for 2017, that would be awesome. I'll probably work on it tomorrow

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...w3k/edit#gid=0

Sure. Just let me know or fix it if I mess something up.

guniv

21-11-2016 15:47

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

I wish they had Nvidia Quadros on there again. Useful for CAD towers.

ahartnet

21-11-2016 16:59

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1617132)

If someone wants to update this spreadsheet for 2017, that would be awesome. I'll probably work on it tomorrow

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...w3k/edit#gid=0

I ran my python script to collect as much as I can by scraping the source of the pages. Doesn't incorporate cost yet though (or comparisons to past years): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Christopher149

21-11-2016 18:36

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Can anyone tell if there is a meaningful difference between fc17-041 and fc17-135 (the two solenoids)?

Some of the item numbers are different, but the items in the photos seem the same, but there is a 50 credit difference between the two.

frcguy

21-11-2016 20:46

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher149 (Post 1617181)

Looks like the more expensive (credit wise) one includes these:

Code:

2 x 24V Electrical Sub Base for actuating (566716)

I believe that is the 24V version of this, the electric actuator for actually triggering the solenoid. So, if you got the solenoid which is less credits you'd need that anyways.

Billfred

21-11-2016 20:59

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

In the name of sanity and thread hygiene, all the NeveRest 60 talk has been collated in this thread.

Christopher149

21-11-2016 21:14

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by frcguy (Post 1617221)

Looks like the more expensive (credit wise) one includes these:

Code:

2 x 24V Electrical Sub Base for actuating (566716)

I believe that is the 24V version of this, the electric actuator for actually triggering the solenoid. So, if you got the solenoid which is less credits you'd need that anyways.

But the cheaper one seems to come with that in 8042548 (by looking at festo's website). One small thing makes me wonder if the cheaper one requires a manifold base (but I am deeply unsure - especially since the cheaper one is the one in the rookie kit).

A definitive answer would be fantastic.

GeeTwo

21-11-2016 21:16

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1617225)

In the name of sanity and thread hygiene, all the NeveRest 60 talk has been collated in this thread.

Sanity? Thread Hygiene? Whoa - this is Chief Delphi, isn't it? - yes, there's the number 47 on the tab.

I never thought of the possible downside of spending time with Andy Baker until now...

bobbysq

21-11-2016 21:21

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1617229)

Sanity? Thread Hygiene? Whoa - this is Chief Delphi, isn't it? - yes, there's the number 47 on the tab.

I never thought of the possible downside of spending time with Andy Baker until now...

Unfortunately, the motor thread is now a mess due to it having all the minibot comments in it. I'm sure that it'll refocus though.

inorbert

22-11-2016 17:39

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

As a second year team we don't want to dismantle our robot from last year, is the control systems (robo rio, pdp, ect.) included in the KOP or should we get them through first choice?

Mark McLeod

22-11-2016 17:44

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

The control system is not included for vets, so you'll have to acquire it through FIRST Choice or direct purchase through AndyMark.

Nuttyman54

22-11-2016 17:49

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by inorbert (Post 1617322)

As a second year team we don't want to dismantle our robot from last year, is the control systems (robo rio, pdp, ect.) included in the KOP or should we get them through first choice?

Veteran teams (aka, not rookie teams) do not get a control system in their Kickoff Kit, so I would recommend you pick up those components on FIRST Choice.

If you click on the links to the various FIRST Choice components, they will say if they are in the Kickoff Kit or not. There are three options - "Yes", "No" and "Rookie Tote Only", so they make it easy to tell what stuff on FIRST Choice each team will also be getting in their Kickoff Kit.

You can also look at the 2016 kickoff kit inventory sheets and look at what was in the Yellow Tote. Those were "rookie only" items last year (veteran teams did not get a yellow tote). 2017 kit contents will be somewhat different but it's a good baseline to see what stuff you might want to pick up before the season that's not available on FIRST Choice.

JR0405

22-11-2016 18:39

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

A definitive answer would be fantastic.

anybody?

inorbert

22-11-2016 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54 (Post 1617325)

Thank you, much appreciated

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

Roboshant

02-12-2016 15:49

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

What would you think is a better choice to go with the NavX micro (http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/fc17-074) or the ADIS option (http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/fc17-007). Thank You!

Nate Laverdure

02-12-2016 16:29

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboshant (Post 1618934)

What would you think is a better choice to go with the NavX micro (http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/fc17-074) or the ADIS option (http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/fc17-007). Thank You!

The navX-Micro processes data from its onboard sensors to provide a "fused heading" whereas the ADIS16448 does not.

slibert

02-12-2016 18:59

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboshant (Post 1618934)

What would you think is a better choice to go with the NavX micro (http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/fc17-074) or the ADIS option (http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/fc17-007). Thank You!

Full disclosure: As founder of Kauai Labs, I'm biased towards the navX-Micro so you should take this w/a grain of salt - but I wanted to toss out a couple of system-level considerations.

A few features the navX-Micro has you might consider useful are it's dual simultaneous interfaces (I2C and USB), which allow you to:

- Connect I2C to RoboRIO, and USB to your vision processor (to share the high-resolution timestamp and IMU data w/both processors simultaneously), and
- Connect USB to RoboRIO and mount the navX-Micro USB anywhere on the robot (USB supports up to a 6 meter range).

One other distinction is that navX-Micro has a dual power supply (5V on the I2C pins, and 5V on the USB interface), whereas the ADIS16448 MXP board (based upon the published schematic) does not.

If a MXP board doesn't provide a secondary power supply, it's only power supply (from the RoboRIO) is subject to brownout whenever the RoboRIO voltage drops below 6.3V (even for an instant). So during that time no data is available, and since the ADIS16448 MXP Board runs the sensor fusion algorithms on the RoboRIO, these algorithms will be missing data for some period of time. For normal matches where you change out a battery before each match this is almost surely not an issue, esp. if you use the sensor only for autonomous (at the beginning of the match). But it could be an issue if you use the sensor for teleop and esp. during longer practice matches.

maxnz

07-12-2016 08:54

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Has the algorithm finished running? I see that some things are marked as out of stock, but not as much as I thought. The same things were marked last night when I checked.

Just wondering when we will know what's left for regular ordering on Monday.

bobbysq

07-12-2016 09:02

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxnz (Post 1619847)

Has the algorithm finished running? I see that some things are marked as out of stock, but not as much as I thought. The same things were marked last night when I checked.

who the heck bought all the window motor connectors

Bryce Clegg

07-12-2016 09:05

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbysq (Post 1619850)

who the heck bought all the window motor connectors

Does anyone remember how many there were originally?

GeeTwo

07-12-2016 09:18

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce Clegg (Post 1619851)

Does anyone remember how many there were originally?

Mark McLeod

07-12-2016 09:41

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

I like how the quantities of some items actually increased, e.g., Mounting bracket (fc17-142) (started @ 1000).
Is there a trade-in program I overlooked? :-)

Mr. Ackroyd

07-12-2016 10:16

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Looking at the priority list, it's incredible the amount of items out sold out for 2017. One that jumps out at me are the talon's. I'm glad we stocked up on them earlier in the summer.

maxnz

07-12-2016 10:24

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Ackroyd (Post 1619870)

Looking at the priority list, it's incredible the amount of items out sold out for 2017. One that jumps out at me are the talon's. I'm glad we stocked up on them earlier in the summer.

I would say that talons were understandable. What I'm surprised about is that the core control system components haven't been marked sold out yet.

Bryce Clegg

07-12-2016 12:49

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxnz (Post 1619871)

I would say that talons were understandable. What I'm surprised about is that the core control system components haven't been marked sold out yet.

Apparently, the PDP and VRM both started out at 1,000 ct. and are down to 256 and 241. In comparison, the talons started out at 2500 and are sold out. I'm confused by it as well.

Jon Stratis

07-12-2016 12:58

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce Clegg (Post 1619896)

Apparently, the PDP and VRM both started out at 1,000 ct. and are down to 256 and 241. In comparison, the talons started out at 2500 and are sold out. I'm confused by it as well.

It's not that confusing. Let's say there were 700 teams that wanted all of the control system stuff. They all out the PDP's and VRM's on there at 1 each. They also put talons on their list at 4 each. 700x4 is more than 2500!. Due to the increased limit per team, they were bound to sell out.

Michael Hill

07-12-2016 15:23

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Sounds like we've got a good amount of thin 1/2" shaft collars coming to us, in all sorts of colors!

Bkeeneykid

07-12-2016 16:34

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1619925)

It looks like the results of the first round draft are available on the first choice site. Log in, go to MY ACCOUNT on the top bar, then Orders on the left, then Order Details on the right. You can also see how much shipping you were charged.

If it isn't up, wait a bit, they may still be populating.

Ours isn't up yet. Does it have full items that you received or just shipping charges?

GeeTwo

07-12-2016 16:37

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid (Post 1619927)

Ours isn't up yet. Does it have full items that you received or just shipping charges?

Sorry, I was looking at last year's order. Didn't delete the post fast enough for you.

Bryce Clegg

07-12-2016 16:37

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid (Post 1619927)

Ours isn't up yet. Does it have full items that you received or just shipping charges?

Ours isn't up either. I was fairly certain that I read it would be updated at noon EST tomorrow. We have our orders from last year, but not this year yet.

Bkeeneykid

07-12-2016 16:38

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1619928)

Sorry, I was looking at last year's order. Didn't delete the post fast enough for you.

Ah, all good. Thread reply emails are a wonderful thing.

frcguy

07-12-2016 16:46

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Are people able to view their priority lists? I don't see anywhere to view it on the FIRST Choice website.

Bkeeneykid

07-12-2016 16:47

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by frcguy (Post 1619931)

Are people able to view their priority lists? I don't see anywhere to view it on the FIRST Choice website.

Our lead mentor received an email with the list contained in a attachment.

marshall

07-12-2016 16:48

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by frcguy (Post 1619931)

Are people able to view their priority lists? I don't see anywhere to view it on the FIRST Choice website.

You have to login as the creator to view it and you need the PL list number... should be formatted like 3XXXX where XXXX is your team number with leading zeros.

Code:

https://firstchoicebyandymark.com/orderdetails/{PL LIST NUMBER}

frcguy

07-12-2016 16:52

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall (Post 1619933)

You have to login as the creator to view it and you need the PL list number... should be formatted like 3XXXX where XXXX is your team number with leading zeros.

Code:

https://firstchoicebyandymark.com/orderdetails/{PL LIST NUMBER}

Thanks - that worked.

Sperkowsky

07-12-2016 17:04

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall (Post 1619933)

You have to login as the creator to view it and you need the PL list number... should be formatted like 3XXXX where XXXX is your team number with leading zeros.

Code:

https://firstchoicebyandymark.com/orderdetails/{PL LIST NUMBER}

THANKS A TON!

Despite a list being made as soon as First Choice went up it was found out that the list was never actually submitted at 11:50pm est. This resulted in me leaving my gym class to rush to submit everything and once I was done inputting everything on our list it was 12pm. My card was charged but the priority list tab vanished before I verified anything. I was worried nothing went through. Thankfully it all worked out.

Mark McLeod

08-12-2016 07:58

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

The products on FIRST Choice have continued to be depleted.
One more product has sold out.
So, the orders have continued to be processed.

We should hear finals today.

MrRoboSteve

08-12-2016 10:08

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

New blog entry indicates one day delay in results this week, and a delay in the second round.

http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...-1-delay-tweak

guniv

09-12-2016 08:26

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Our results got emailed to us at 3am. I think we made it out pretty okay.

I actually wish we could have had some points left over for some game pieces later, but it's no big deal.

Conor Ryan

09-12-2016 08:33

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

We got all the items at the top of our list!

Mark McLeod

09-12-2016 08:41

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Got all our top picks as well-#1 thru #5.

M. Mellott

09-12-2016 09:12

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

We got the first 14 items on our original list! Control items, Victors, pneumatic hardware...very happy with our success!! Thank you AM and FIRST Choice.

marshall

09-12-2016 09:20

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

We made off with a TX1, a PDP, some Talons, and some digital gauges.

I suspect our students are most excited about the TX1 but I'm loving the gauges and looking forward to having a micrometer in the lab again.

Christopher149

09-12-2016 09:30

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by guniv (Post 1620307)

I actually wish we could have had some points left over for some game pieces later, but it's no big deal.

We (almost surely) will get more points for round 2, and we're often limited to 1 or 2 game pieces from FIRST Choice anyway.

Billfred

09-12-2016 09:33

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Lest you think the AndyMark people got some jump, 5402 got its first seven, then #10, then #12.

(We loaded up on Talons, SPs, CIMs, a spare VRM and signal light, and some fans because it's historically a pain to get a truly legal one in the heat of build season.)

marshall

09-12-2016 09:35

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1620324)

signal light

These are absurdly expensive if you ever have to buy them.

GeeTwo

09-12-2016 09:41

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

1 Attachment(s)

We got 23 of the top 24 items on the priority list that was used. :)
Unfortunately, the list wasn't exactly in the order I thought it was. The only one which likely had impact was the NavX being moved from #3 to #14. :(
I didn't know why I had put the compressor on the list. I couldn't possibly have foreseen that we would break one last night. (The arm of an pre-season robot rammed into the "christmas tree" on the compressor, breaking off the threads which secure the check valve.) Well, the replacement is already on the way! :D
The bent and broken rods on a couple of Bimba cylinders re-used from our Aerial Assist robot probably won't be replaced. :o

Edit: And yes, a signal light - last thing that we got!

Bryce Clegg

09-12-2016 10:15

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

We did not get a RSL because we saw that it is coming in the kickoff kit. Then again, they are always a rarity. We got a PDP, 4 Talons, the accelerometer & gyro, and the navX-micro.

Christopher149

09-12-2016 10:18

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

We got items #1-#14 and #17 from our list.

jman4747

09-12-2016 10:53

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

4 tallons
4 CIM motors
A Nvidia TX1
A Ten Degrees of Freedom MXP sensor from Analog Devices
An AMT 103-V encoder

PayneTrain

09-12-2016 12:02

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall (Post 1620325)

These are absurdly expensive if you ever have to buy them.

It is one of the few remaining required components of the robots that are commercial grade.

Thayer McCollum

09-12-2016 15:50

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

We at 159 got some pretty good stuff. A PD Board, four Talon SRXs, a PCM, and two CIMS. This was all the stuff we really wanted. This amounted to 740 credits, the last 10 came from... Drum-roll please... a Shaft coupling hub. Coupling Disc and matching hub not included. This is what happens when you don't pay attention to things you put low on your list. You get a third of a shaft coupling.:confused:

Foster

09-12-2016 16:30

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1620327)

We got 23 of the top 24 items on the priority list that was used. :)

Wow, 23 items!! Is that the record for items in one order via FirstChoice?

Conor Ryan

09-12-2016 17:06

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1620324)

signal light

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall (Post 1620325)

These are absurdly expensive if you ever have to buy them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1620350)

It is one of the few remaining required components of the robots that are commercial grade.

You'd think we would:
1) move to something cheaper
2) move to something that is easier to mount
3) make it easier to wire and use.

Make rotating beacons great again!

Jon K.

09-12-2016 17:57

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan (Post 1620405)

You'd think we would:
1) move to something cheaper
2) move to something that is easier to mount
3) make it easier to wire and use.

Make rotating beacons great again!

I miss the dome lights.

PayneTrain

09-12-2016 20:58

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan (Post 1620405)

You'd think we would:
1) move to something cheaper
2) move to something that is easier to mount
3) make it easier to wire and use.

Make rotating beacons great again!

I'm assuming this is a part that is very freely donated by Allen Bradley so these issues do not really come up on the KOP radar, lest another supplier comes to them with a free status light that also does those things.

Lil' Lavery

09-12-2016 22:14

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Everything is better than the flags.

GeeTwo

09-12-2016 22:30

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foster (Post 1620402)

Wow, 23 items!! Is that the record for items in one order via FirstChoice?

We certainly weren't trying for a record. We only got three 50 point items, (10DoF, compressor, signal light), most of the items were 5-20 points each. We actually have 54 pieces in the box. Amazing that it ships for only $16, so these pieces cost us an average of about 30 cents to ship. We even have 50 points left!

Mostly we ordered key items that we pay for from time to time, but also put in for things that looked like they would be neat to have in the prototyping bag of tricks, like the Oldhams.

GeeTwo

09-12-2016 23:12

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foster (Post 1620402)

Wow, 23 items!! Is that the record for items in one order via FirstChoice?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1620486)

Everything is better than the flags.

Looks like those were only used in 2006 and 2007. I'm guessing that they fell out as often as not when a robot got tipped on its side. Even back then, bumpers didn't count towards weight, so they had to be removeable. For all the pain we go through with making easily swappable (or reversible) bumpers, I can see that that was worse. It also restricted the GDC from any mobility incentive to keep robots short (e.g. lowest rung on the pyramid in 2013 and the low bar in 2016).

What's more interesting from my dumpster dive of the rules is that this will be (presuming it's mandatory, which is likely, given that its again in the KoP) the 11th consecutive year with what at least appears to be the same signal light. We should probably have some 10th anniversary celebration - it's a shame that the RSL doesn't really fit the steampunk theme very well.

Lil' Lavery

10-12-2016 01:07

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

The flags were used from 2006-2008. Having trailers in 2009 made it so the colors of the bumpers on the trailers could be used to identify alliances. They carried that forwards to robot bumpers starting in 2010.

While infinitely easier to see than the tiny lights used in 2004-2005, the flags just weren't all that visible. Spectators had to really focus to find an visual indicator of which robots were on which alliance. And even when you saw them, it always appeared to be a pretty low tech and inelegant solution.

Tipping and falling out wasn't really a huge concern, because most robots are done when they tip anyway. However, errant tubes were prone to getting stuck on the flags in 2007, which counted as possession of a game piece. Additionally the rules for the flag holders (had to be held vertically on the top of the robot) were hard to work around with some ramp designs in 2007. Ultimately the inspectors/refs would end up looking the other way for most teams, much to the chagrin of the some the teams that put significant effort into located their flags to avoid ramp interference (such as 1114, who had a really nifty design to keep their flag vertical as they unfolded).

maxnz

10-12-2016 01:25

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan (Post 1620405)

You'd think we would:
2) move to something that is easier to mount

This past season, I actually found that if you take the bearing portion out of a KOP pillow block bearing, the RSL will fit perfectly where the bearing was. You then use the screw part of the RSL to hold it in the bearing holder. You can then zip tie it wherever you need it without worrying about it falling off.

Chief Hedgehog

10-12-2016 03:40

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

For 4607 we were very happy with our haul:

1. TX-1 (now crossing fingers for the ZED Camera to hit FC round two)
2. Talon SRX (4)
3. Victor SP (2)

We will wait to see what round two brings us...

CMBrandon

10-12-2016 12:49

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

How many credits does each team get to spend?

Lireal

10-12-2016 13:14

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMBrandon (Post 1620530)

How many credits does each team get to spend?

Each team gets 750 credits the first round, and than (I think) another 200 more for the second round.

maxnz

13-12-2016 21:00

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

FIRST Choice is giving me this:

Code:

{"Message":"The given key was not present in the dictionary."}

Any idea why?

Cothron Theiss

13-12-2016 21:13

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxnz (Post 1621159)

FIRST Choice is giving me this:

Code:

{"Message":"The given key was not present in the dictionary."}

Any idea why?

I'm running into the same issue. I logged in successfully yesterday, and now am running into the same error.

cpapplefamily

13-12-2016 21:43

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

I googled first choice andymark and used this link. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&u act=8&ved=0ahUKEwjdiZTW1PLQAhWMWBoKHV2aCRsQjBAIIjA B&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffirstchoicebyandymark.com%2Flo gin&usg=AFQjCNHZebxmPoKlOb7IXDmozE8iRMH8sA

or

https://firstchoicebyandymark.com/login

and got in.

Mark McLeod

13-12-2016 21:52

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Sold out of several more products now that open ordering began.

NeveRest 60 (fc17-020)
PG71 Gearmotor With Encoder (fc17-017)
Sensor6PAK (fc17-023)
the purple hex shaft collars
etc.

frcguy

13-12-2016 21:53

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpapplefamily (Post 1621169)

Neither of those are working for me.

EDIT: I went here: http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/everything/ and I'm able to access the site.

Mark McLeod

13-12-2016 21:58

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

I get the message when I do certain things, like try to login, but if logged in I can navigate around.

SoftwareBug2.0

14-12-2016 20:11

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Let me first start by saying that my team is very happy with the results and with the process for FIRST Choice this year.

Ok, now that that's out of the way let's do some analysis:

Too cheap:
Also known as "what sold out?" or "what should have been worth more points?"
In no particular order

Code:

500EX Hex Hub (fc17-013) 

AMT103 Cable Assembly, 5-pin, 5 x 22AWG, 1 ft. (fc17-030) 

AMT103 Cable Assembly, 5-pin, 5 x 22AWG, 6 ft. (fc17-031) 

Pneumatic Solenoid, Double Valve Kit 2016 (fc17-041) 

CIM Motor (fc17-069) 

Talon SRX (fc17-070) 

Victor SP (fc17-071) 

NavX-Micro sensor (fc17-074) 

CAN Wire, 22 AWG, Green/Yellow twisted pair, 4 ft. long (fc17-081) 

1/2" Hex Shaft Collar, Blue (fc17-082) 

1/2" Hex Shaft Collar, Gold (fc17-083) 

1/2" Hex Shaft Collar, Green (fc17-084) 

1/2" Hex Shaft Collar, Orange (fc17-085) 

1/2" Hex Shaft Collar, Red (fc17-087) 

Denso window motor connector 2 housings & 4 terminals (fc17-150) 

DryLin® W, linear guide system, guide carriage, assembled (fc17-151) 

Precision Metalworking Gauge Kit (fc17-156) 

Acer Aspire E11 Netbook (fc17-158)

Too expensive:
Less than 4% of available items claimed; aka maybe the price was too high
Ordered by smallest fraction sold of inventory gone

Code:

Single Edge Steel Track, Size 3, Variable Length 16-26" (fc17-148) 

Single Edge Steel Track, Size 1, Variable Length 16-26" (fc17-146) 

Mounting bracket (fc17-142) 

USB A Male to B Male, 2m, Grey(fc17-024) 

iglide plastic clip bearing (fc17-059) 

Fan, small, 20mm 412 (fc17-039) 

Industrial RJ45 Modular Plug (fc17-001) 

iglide plastic thrust washer (fc17-062) 

Lead Screw (fc17-139) 

Compact Fan, 12V, 10mm 412F (fc17-040) 

iglide plastic flange bearing (fc17-060) 

8 x 3-conductor Lever nuts (fc17-134) 

iglide plastic sleeve bearing (fc17-061) 

AndyMark Anchor Bolt (fc17-015) 

MC5e Catagory 5e Modular Patch Cord, (colors & lengths vary) (fc17-154) 

47mm OD, 17mm ID Bearings (Sleeve of 10) (fc17-126) 

igubal spherical rod end bearing EBRI-10R (fc17-065) 

iglidur Tribo-Filament (fc17-056) 

Fan, large 4412 ML (fc17-038) 

26mm OD, 10mm ID Bearings (Sleeve of 8) (fc17-127) 

Teflon tape PTFE-1/4 (fc17-055)

Unnecessary limits:
There was a per-team limit but less than 25% of available stock was used
Ordered by fraction of stock remaining

Code:

Digital Multimeter Model 175 (fc17-136) 

LaunchPad Evaluation Kit (fc17-131) 

HS-322HD Servo (fc17-053) 

iglide® PRT slewing ring (fc17-063) 

Robot Signal Light (i.e. Panel Signal Device) (fc17-145)

maxnz

15-12-2016 09:12

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1620496)

What's more interesting from my dumpster dive of the rules is that this will be (presuming it's mandatory, which is likely, given that its again in the KoP) the 11th consecutive year with what at least appears to be the same signal light. We should probably have some 10th anniversary celebration - it's a shame that the RSL doesn't really fit the steampunk theme very well.

I was looking through rules and it seems that Victor 884s have been legal since at least 2003. (I couldn't find anything for 2004 or prior to 2003. And 2017 hasn't been completely released yet.) 14 years.

marshall

15-12-2016 09:15

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

A note to Team's who received the TX1. It is shipping from Nvidia and not AndyMark. Just FYI.

Billfred

15-12-2016 09:44

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxnz

Here's 2004; it was 884s that year as well.

Mark McLeod

15-12-2016 09:59

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

884's were introduced in 2003, before that they used 883's (those were first introduced in 1999).
Here is the KOP list for 2002 showing the 883's.

Ken Streeter

15-12-2016 16:14

Re: [FRC Blog] FIRST Choice 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1620507)

... the rules for the flag holders (had to be held vertically on the top of the robot) were hard to work around with some ramp designs in 2007. ...

Coming up with a workable flag solution (the flag had to be at a specific, quite-tall height) was one of our challenges in 2008 for Speed Racer as we wanted to be able to drive under / through balls as if they weren't there...

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