Chief Delphi - STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

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- - STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152471)

Cole Cyr

30-11-2016 14:12

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.Allred (Post 1618449)

Cole,
Could you explain your apprehension? As I read it, the award is designed to provide scholarship money for student leaders / innovators. The "art" portion opens the opportunity to a broader group.

I would say all the FIRST CA students have gained an opportunity. Win-win. Where is the loss?

Snip from the website...
Are you often described as a leader, an achiever, or an innovator? Do you have limitless drive, ambition, and determination? If so, there’s an opportunity to receive a $25,000 prize towards your post-secondary education.

The STEAM Horizon Awards, a newly funded prize program, invites Canada’s youth to promote positive changes throughout their community using science, technology, engineering, arts, and math (STEAM).

Up to seven students will each be awarded a $25,000 prize for their post-secondary education. Two of the seven prizes will go to Indigenous youth. The prizes will be funded by the Canada Science and Technology Museums Corporation Foundation, alongside eight Founding Partners. We are confident that these recipients will act as role models and ambassadors for future STEAM generations.

I am not saying that the award is bad im just commenting on the awards impact on the environment. any award that we can get is great and if there wasn't so much talk about steam already i would think nothing of this award. but with STEAM being thought to be the new STEM im using it as evidence of the legitimacy of these claims.

s_forbes

30-11-2016 14:12

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

I think they really need to add more terms to make it a more forward thinking acronym. Art is important, but Business is just as important, if not more, for sustaining a team. Another core tenant of FIRST is teaching students Responsibility as it applies to project management, and Inclusion of team mates to make a highly functional team.

The new acronym should really be RIBMEATS.

bkahl

30-11-2016 14:18

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_forbes (Post 1618453)

I love it.

JesseK

30-11-2016 14:19

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr (Post 1618432)

almost entirely objective fields of Science Technology Engineering and Math
...

So i ask you, since this seems to be happening no matter what now, how do we incorporate such a subjective field into the FRC enviroment?

Some artists call a few swipes of a paint brush art.

Some engineers call a barely-tested, half-wired, slow-moving amalgamation of metal and electricity a competitive robot.

Don't kid yourself: it's all subjective. They're both application of and execution on the creative process, where "completed product" means different things to different people.

Cole Cyr

30-11-2016 14:19

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis (Post 1618450)

Have you ever looked at a robot or a mechanism and thought "wow, that's beautiful"? You might have 30 other teams at the event that accomplish the task the same way, but none of them will look as good. That's art, expressed through engineering. As we see every year, any team that tries can field a robot that plays the game. But some teams have a certain elegance in their design that makes you stop and look, while others are kludges that, while functional, aren't pretty.

At work, I implement solutions to problems every day. Sometimes, when I review those solutions before delivering them, I think "wow, that's ugly". Other times its "wow, that's really nice". The nice, elegant solutions I want to go crow about. The ugly ones I just hope no one else notices. Yet both of them solve the problem and become part of the product.

Art is integral to engineering, even if we don't like to think so.

A solution to a task that solves it with beauty and elegance is not thanks to Art it is thanks to STEM and a robot that looks good while doing it is Art. it is true there is something to be said about a good looking bot but at the end of the day you dont get to finals for having a good looking bot, infact ive seen alot of ugly bots get to finals and win so what do u value more, a robot that can accomplish a task well or one that looks better but performs worse. do you think that on the ISS that would install an arm that performed worse just because it looks better. the point being that Art compliments STEM but has no OBJECTIVE purpose

chapman1

30-11-2016 14:20

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Art has always been a part of FIRST; it's an important part of marketing the Team. Art is evident in T-shirts, banners, logos, buttons, costumes and dance.

It also serves a wider purpose, putting kids with different abilities and interests together so that they might learn from each other. Art provides a creative outlet for those team members who aren't inclined to either program or to turn a wrench, but at the same time, they see how mechanics and programming are creative endeavors. In turn, the gear heads and nerds are put into direct contact with kids who might be a bit more creative. Everybody gains, and everyone contributes to the overall success of the Team.

Part of the brilliance of FIRST is that it provides a way for almost ALL students to be a part of a team effort, regardless of athletic or intellectual ability. To degrade or diminish any part of the spectrum of possible student contribution would ultimately detract from the FIRST experience.

bkahl

30-11-2016 14:22

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr (Post 1618457)

Art compliments STEM but has no OBJECTIVE purpose

You compliment STEM, do you (or this thread) have an OBJECTIVE purpose?

Cole Cyr

30-11-2016 14:23

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1618456)

LOL, but the robot has to a accomplish a task where its effectiveness can be rated and therefore Objectively accessed where a piece of arts only task is to be appealing and that is subjective

Monochron

30-11-2016 14:23

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr (Post 1618447)

A large majority of prizes are by 3rd party groups and the promotion of STEAM is a shift in marketing that has to be attributed to some decision made, and im guessing its the slow introduction of STEAM

What do you mean a majority of prizes are by 3rd party groups? There are lots of awards that organization other than FIRST gives out? Well yes, there are plenty of contests unrelated to FIRST. Prizes for FIRST awards are provided by 3rd party groups? Very few FIRST awards come with tangible prizes to begin with.

If you were just mistaken about FIRST CA's involvement in the prize, that's fine, mistakes are easy to make. But them promoting a single contest that VERY closely overlaps with FIRST's goals doesn't indicate a slow replacement of STEM with STEAM within FIRST.

They are definitely promoting STEAM, possibly due to the theme of this year's game. What would really be interesting is evidence that FIRST promoting STEAM will continue after this year's game. I haven't seen anything like that yet.

Lil' Lavery

30-11-2016 14:25

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

The problem I have with STEAM is that it strikes me as a money grab. STEM education has a clear and concise goal of increasing certain professions with a pretty well defined set of subject matters it caters to. STEAM is far less defined and is rapidly approaching education as a whole. It may be cynical of me, but STEAM just seems like a way for Arts educators/lobbyists to compete for funding and attention that was going towards STEM (grants/sponsorships/scholarships/etc). To me it seems like "the Arts" felt left out of STEM, and rather than advocate their own set of merits and interests, they latched onto STEM initiatives to get their slice of the pie.

Did this CA FIRST Scholarship exist before the switch from STEM to STEAM? Would it have existed without the switch from STEM to STEAM? Did it struggle for applicants as a STEM scholarship? Or are good STEM-field applicants going to be passed over for the scholarship in favor of BA majors?

None of this is to say that Arts aren't important or that the Arts aren't applicable to STEM fields. However, others have pointed out that Business and other fields are also applicable to STEM. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and the relationship between STEM and other fields can be stressed even within the confines of STEM.

Monochron

30-11-2016 14:26

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr (Post 1618457)

A solution to a task that solves it with beauty and elegance is not thanks to Art it is thanks to STEM and a robot that looks good while doing it is Art.

You are defining art as aesthetic quality only? I don't think many people would agree with you there.

waialua359

30-11-2016 14:29

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Blame FIRST for coming up with this year's game "STEAMWorks.":]
We used the term over 8 years ago as I found some old documentation of ours.

Jon Stratis

30-11-2016 14:31

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr (Post 1618457)

A solution to a task that solves it with beauty and elegance is not thanks to Art it is thanks to STEM and a robot that looks good while doing it is Art.

What exactly is the difference between "beauty and elegance" and "looks good"? Because you seem to say that one is not Art while the other is, yet I would say the two are very similar. A beautiful and elegant robot is one that looks good.

Cole Cyr

30-11-2016 14:35

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis (Post 1618465)

the distinction is in the task, the term beauty for instance.

The robot performed the task beautifully. the word speaks to its level of performance

the robot looked beautiful as its performing the task. speaks to the look of the robot but not the preformance

bkahl

30-11-2016 14:36

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkahl (Post 1618459)

You compliment STEM, do you (or this thread) have an OBJECTIVE purpose?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Cyr (Post 1618468)

...

Soooooooooo..... Safe to assume the answer is no?

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