Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

The purpose is to generate meaningful discussion on the potential transition from STEM to STEAM

I could attack you with the same thing, whats the purpose of you Derailing conversation? (dont answer that as it would only derail this further)

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

Meaningful discussion
=\=
------

and you can't derail a thread that had no "rails" to begin with.

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

That's just like, your opinion man.

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

Subjective!

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

If we want a meaningful discussion, I'll pose a question.

Is Computer Aided Design (CAD) an Art?

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

No. Beauty does not denote performance. The definition of beauty is

Even saying something was done beautifully is subjective, not objective. And as you stated in your original post,
If you want to objectively compliment a robots performance, you talk about the number of times it scored, the speed with which is manipulated the game object, or its consistency across matches. Those are all objective facts that can be determined, stated, and compared. Saying it completed the task beautifully implies a subjective opinion on the method of implementation, there is nothing at all objective about it.

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

I think the broad use of the term "Art" is what makes people not like it to be included in STEM including myself. Art does not belong in the STEM acronym. "Art" is a far too broad term to include with the other subjects. I understand that parts of art can be used in STEM like design but I don't think its right to classify all of art with STEM.

Interesting perspective from another source-
"Art is often touted as a method of adding creativity to STEM—but keep in mind that engineers are rarely lacking for creativity and ingenuity. Just look at the world around you for proof."

Does art belong in STEM? No, but parts of it certainly do like design. However in my opinion those that do already fall under engineering. There is no reason to bring them together.

"en·gi·neer·ing
ˌenjəˈniriNG/
noun
the branch of science and technology concerned with the design, building, and use of engines, machines, and structures."

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

The human part of it sure can be.


OP:
FIRST had the imagery award long before they announced STEAM. I don't think it's "coming" to FRC, it's already here and it's been embedded for a very long time.

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

Building a good robot *is* an art, and some of the stuff people make for FIRST is definitely artsy. But to add art, being the arts, to the aspects that they try to preach, it enables FIRST to be a surrogate educator in every traditional class.

Is it such a bad thing? #musicgame2018

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

If anything the switch from STEM to STEAM open up additional sponsorship opportunities. When a corporation donates to FIRST they can now say that they support both arts and technology in schools. Two birds one stone. It's obvious that arts are a big part of FIRST so why not?

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

Music game... would you want any aspect of the game to be subjective and have an effect on the points system. you gain extra points if the judges deem your robot good looking... thats the path were on.

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

Artists do more than just paint. Many of them create works of art that rely on construction and material properties that engineers are familiar with and use frequently. Think sculptures, think kinetic art. They use welders and power tools and are concerned with structural integrity and Newtonian physics.

Leonardo Davinci designed mechanical contraptions and did art. The skills can be very complimentary. Engineers express their ideas not just through math but by drawing sketches and conceptual illustrations. Engineers are creative and so are artists. Artists often look to question the world and pose those questions to society through their art. Engineers may not like that the questions are not straightforward and often do not have answers (and yes, a lot of art is really dumb, but a lot of engineering is really dumb too, let's face it) but that doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose.

A diversity of viewpoints is critical to coming up with new and novel solutions. We should welcome the inclusion of these new viewpoints. And if "artists" learn a new appreciation for STEM through that process, how does that hurt us? It hurts us more if we act like superior, cliquish snobs, insisting on our own superiority.

Try listening to this episode of the Embedded.fm podcast: http://embedded.fm/episodes/142 It features Sarah Petkus who is a kinetic artist who also works with robots. It's really cool.

Why not encourage that sort of crossing of disciplines rather than denigrating it?

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

I like well designed things that serve a function. I like things that look good. You can have both in an aesthetically pleasing package and it's beautiful when done right. It just depends on how you choose to incorporate the two and balance them.



I made this cryptex. Was it a test of my abilities as an engineer and machinist? Absolutely! Was it a test of my ability to design an aesthetically pleasing product within the bounds of material selection and ability? You bet it was! It isn't perfect, but I learned a great deal from making it. If I make others they will be designed better and look nicer. Engineers that design ugly products won't be selling very many of them.

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

I certainly agree there's enough art encompassed in engineering for engineers' purposes, as this ought to be a tautology for any field. But using that as a reason to keep an A out of STE(A)M is clearly internally inconsistent: under that logic, the acronym should just be "E". I no more need to be reminded or compelled to have art in my engineering than I do math. While I won't pretend to know any objective purpose for the original STEM acronym, but it clearly isn't that.

Re: STEAM Actually comming to FRC, and im not happy
 

STEM blushes, and asks if Art would like to go out for a date.