Chief Delphi - 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Page 2 of 4

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- Pneumatics (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=54)

- - 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152510)

AustinSchuh

03-12-2016 23:51

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPBlacksmiths (Post 1619082)

How did you attach this fan being that the compressor doesn't have mounting holes for a fan? (Or at least i'm pretty sure it doesn't)

We zip-tied the little muffin fan on. It's stupid simple and worked great.

Gdeaver

04-12-2016 06:57

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

We just put 4 bolts and zip tied around them. Sounds like a kludge , but it works. Best to have the fan on top. That's the hottest part. This would be a good CAD - 3d printing project to make a clip on fan shroud. Post to thingiverse.

dradel

05-12-2016 10:34

Just got off the phone with andymark... they are testing the 1.1 and the older compressor today side by side type test @ 12v so teams will have better numbers to base their decision

JesseK

05-12-2016 10:45

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

The problem with the claims of flow rates is that they typically ignore the critical element of temperature. We do not always operate at ambient temp. Our robot compressors are usually too hot to touch for back-to-back matches, meaning it is tougher to compress air than they typical duty cycle compressor. I suspect that the AndyMark compressor, with a longer duty cycle, may do better in a typical FRC environment given its better duty cycle, but I'd like to see some numbers.

This how we do our final pneumatics tests to know if we need another tank, and it seems to work for that purpose. I don't know what it'll tell us about different compressors though:
Fill up 4 tanks -> 5 minute break -> run testbed for 2 minutes -> Record Pressure
-> 2 minute break -> fill up 4 tanks -> 2 minute break -> run testbed for 2 minutes -> Record Pressure
-> 2 minute break -> fill up 4 tanks -> 2 minute break -> run testbed for 2 minutes -> Record Pressure

Billfred

06-12-2016 09:26

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

All,

We've updated both the Viair and 1.1 Pump pages with our real-world testing.

This testing was done in our shop, with a regulated 12V power supply. Same tubing, same tanks, same gauge, same everything-as-much-as-we-can-humanly-measure.

Viair Pump:

Code:

Fill Rate for Number of Clippard tanks (574 ml) to fill from 0 to 110 psi:

1 Tank = 34 Seconds

2 Tanks = 64 Seconds

3 Tanks = 103 Seconds

4 Tanks = 140 Seconds

5 Tanks = 176 Seconds

1.1 Pump:

Code:

Fill Rate for Number of Clippard tanks (574 ml) to fill from 0 to 110 psi:

1 Tank = 25 seconds

2 Tanks = 45 seconds

3 Tanks = 72 seconds

4 Tanks = 95 seconds

5 Tanks = 122 seconds

We're working on converting to CFM for each 10-PSI breakpoint, but I timed both 5-tank tests and the 1.1 Pump was ahead on each one of them. Hopefully, this answers the sixty-four-dollar question. :)

billbo911

06-12-2016 09:49

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1619671)

Code:

Fill Rate for Number of Clippard tanks (574 ml) to fill from 0 to 110 psi:

1 Tank = 34 Seconds

2 Tanks = 64 Seconds

3 Tanks = 103 Seconds

4 Tanks = 140 Seconds

5 Tanks = 176 Seconds

1.1 Pump:

Code:

Fill Rate for Number of Clippard tanks (574 ml) to fill from 0 to 110 psi:

1 Tank = 25 seconds

2 Tanks = 45 seconds

3 Tanks = 72 seconds

4 Tanks = 95 seconds

5 Tanks = 122 seconds

We're working on converting to CFM for each 10-PSI breakpoint, but I timed both 5-tank tests and the 1.1 Pump was ahead on each one of them. Hopefully, this answers the sixty-four-dollar question. :)

Got to LOVE quantitative results!
Now that extra pound has solid numbers to justify it.

Is there a chance you also captured the amount of current that was being drawn at each sample point?

jwfoss

06-12-2016 10:23

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Thank you for running this test, real data is the best data.

Any chance you can post the set up you used for other teams to recreate. Additionally it would be fantastic if you could compare with other legal compressor on the market such as:
- Viair 250C-IG
- Old KOP Thomas
- Thomas 215

Richard Wallace

06-12-2016 10:32

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1619671)

Hopefully, this answers the sixty-four-dollar question. :)

When will these go on sale for sixty-four dollars? :rolleyes:

Nate Laverdure

06-12-2016 10:37

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by billbo911 (Post 1619673)

Is there a chance you also captured the amount of current that was being drawn at each sample point?

Thanks for doing this testing. I agree with the above that the current should also be considered in the testing in case it reveals any significant efficiency differences between these compressor options.

Michael Hill

06-12-2016 11:54

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Thanks for testing. I'll echo current measurement requests, but I'm super happy there are test results at all. Thanks AndyMark.

Jefferson

06-12-2016 11:59

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Is the inlet air filtered at all? The Viar has a filter built into the end cap, but this one seems to just be an open hole to the pump.

We had some failures from a different pump last year, and we believe it was because of our very dirty practice floor + unfiltered pump inlet.

Billfred

06-12-2016 12:05

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by billbo911 (Post 1619673)

Got to LOVE quantitative results!
Now that extra pound has solid numbers to justify it.

Is there a chance you also captured the amount of current that was being drawn at each sample point?

I have the numbers for the 1.1 Pump up to 100 PSI handy; I don't have them for the Viair.

Code:

10        10

20        11

30        11.3

40        11.8

50        12.5

60        12.8

70        13

80        13.1

90        13.1

100        13.7

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwfoss (Post 1619680)

I've attached a picture of our setup. (The tee at the bottom was connected to more Clippard tanks, as you can imagine.)

We don't have access to those other compressors, so someone would have to collect them.

marshall

06-12-2016 12:47

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1619698)

We don't have access to those other compressors, so someone would have to collect them.

I got this:

Richard Wallace

06-12-2016 12:53

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

In a thread from 2015, my team posted some results comparing compressors based on initial charge time 0-120 PSI and on recharge time 100-120 PSI.

Our test set-up is shown schematically in an attachment to this old post.

Mr V	06-12-2016 14:12

Re: 1.1 Pump (am-3227) Really an improvement?

Personally I'd like to see a test similar to the one Richard posted in that other thread with a slight modification. https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/a...3&d=1423070065

I'd suggest taking some plugs sized to fit the dump valve outlet and drill holes of various sizes through their end. The goal would be to create an orifice that causes the compressor to cycle on say 15-30 sec after the valve is first opened, with that particular stored volume.

Then record the cycle times over the length of a match.

It would also be interesting to see what happens when the orifice is sized so that the system is unable to build enough pressure to shut off during a normal match length. I know I've seen robots the compressor continues to run for the duration of the match either due to leaks or high demand.

Note if there are no spikes lying around a standard automotive relay could be substituted, just grab Andy's or maybe Danny's keys and borrow one. Just make sure it is for something mission critical like the fuel pump or PCM and not one they can do without like the AC compressor. :rolleyes:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:24.

Page 2 of 4

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page