New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

So this new product just popped up on AndyMark today...

Last year they released the track drive and we had to traverse daunting obstacles...

This year they are releasing a wheel that "gives way to allow rigid objects to be manipulated easily. This makes for high-performance intakes and internal conveyors."

Thanks for the hint AndyMark.

Looks to me like we will be handling rigid, chunky shaped coal game pieces this season.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

I didn't notice the bit about rigid objects - half the appeal at first glance is that it is like the Entrapption Stars, but with a hex bore.

Edit: are we getting wiffle balls?

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I believe this was also around the time that the Rhino Drive was released. I think you're on to something.

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For picking up cogs and gear game pieces to hang somewhere obviously :D

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Creative reuse of the leftovers from last year's field...

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The Rhino Drive was actually a coincidence and had nothing to do with the upcoming 2016 game.

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Obviously this is a throwback year and we'll be driving over corn again.

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Do you have proof of this? I know Andymark was aware of atleast the basic game concept early. Even if there was some coincidence and the product was already in development, I have no doubt AM sped up the creation of the product once they knew about the game. The story I have heard was it was for non-frc use and I have a hard time thinking they would spend valuable time around the FRC season spent on a non FRC product.

Do I think these wheels mean the game has a hard object? Not necessarily. These remind me of the conveyor belt wheels or "marshmallow" wheels as I have heard a lot of people call them. I am really happy that these are going to be made now with a 1/2" hex interface as it saves the need for a hub or a broaching operation.

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This sure is reinforcing the idea that some object (or different objects) representing coal are the gamepieces.

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For this season, FIRST did give some distributors, including Andymark, advanced notice about some qualities of the game. I would not be suprised if they have done the same for the coming season. Read here for full information.

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Does $6 for a 2" wheel seem a bit steep to anyone else?
[EDIT: just saw how expensive the tear drop flex rollers are!!!]

Seen similar wheels on many 2015 robots for landfill tote gathering.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

I never understood why they were made with a 0.5" square bore instead of hex. I imagine (with absolutely no real-world testing of course) these new wheels won't work as well as the entrapption stars for intakes of spheres, like the boulders this year because the stars can get more than tangential contact. I would love to see AndyMark come with with a v2 of the stars with a 0.5" hex bore just for ease of use.

As for wiffle balls, if you are talking about the am-3364 under "Customers Also Viewed", they are game pieces for FTC this year, not a mistake by AndyMark in releasing FRC game pieces early.

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We'll know if we discover the game piece by accident because the thread with the discovery will get shut down.:p

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Yes and no, they do appear to be waterjet out of sheet... and the material isn't that cheap. For low qty production the price seems about right.


[QOUTE]I never understood why they were made with a 0.5" square bore instead of hex. I imagine (with absolutely no real-world testing of course) these new wheels won't work as well as the entrapption stars for intakes of spheres, like the boulders this year because the stars can get more than tangential contact. I would love to see AndyMark come with with a v2 of the stars with a 0.5" hex bore just for ease of use. [/quote]

Looks like these would be fairly easy to modify by cutting the ring out and getting 6 point star.

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Ooh, this looks really nice. These wheels would be super helpful for intaking rigid game pieces. At first glace, I was concerned about the hex shaft turning inside of the hex, but .425 is a hilariously heavy interference fit. I do wonder if using Thunderhex with these wheels would pose any issues. I doubt it, but I can't really say for sure.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Not really. What's your alternative for this application?

I've seen team use something similar to the 4" flex wheel from McMaster (2497K12 for example). Those are $30+.

Another alternative was making your own roller from polyurethane tubing - which isn't cheap either.

David

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

True, but then they wouldn't be COTS. So they take manufacturing time and replacements, which will probably be necessary as they take a beating spinning at high speeds, will count against withholding. Also just the extra effort. Comparatively, I would rather pay an extra dollar or two per wheel/star to get a COTS 0.5" hex star than have to modify it. That's just me coming from a small team with limited manpower and manufacturing capabilities; I imagine for larger teams like 973 that is not a problem.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

A good "on a budget" alternative to these holed wheels is always the banebot wheel (orange or bue ideally, which are -/+ 5A of these wheels respectively). They worked well in 2015, so I can't imagine them not working well if we're getting rigid game pieces next year

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Could just be me never having used the material but .425" seem like it would be fairly extreme for an interference fit.

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I noticed that as well, but I'm assuming the AndyMark team found it was easy enough to use.

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We used modified entrapption stars that had hex bores to collect the frisbees from the floor in Ultimate Ascent... they worked quite well. We had a friend from Indianapolis make them for us. (Mike Trapp actually) He is a great guy by the way!! An unsung supporter of FIRST and STEM education.

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This is arguably consistent with the ball-nonball gamepiece trend, if it is at all indicative of "rigid objects" being game pieces.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Balls can be rigid.

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Maybe 0.425" fits tightly on a Churro? If so, then it is even tighter on hex shaft stock.

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Most balls are not, though, thus my inclusion of the word "arguably" ;)

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The word "conveyor" seems to stir up something in my mind... Maybe those fragmented pieces of conveyor belts hidden all over the images they released in the DLC packs?

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This is what makes Chief Delphi great! :rolleyes: Argumentation FTW.

Seriously, any particular game is not played with most balls. We'll get the selected balls, or none.

However, if we do get balls and they are rigid, then I really hope they are also very light.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

.425" Seems about right for a "rubber esque" material. 2826 has used a material called linatex in the past which looks almost identical to what is pictured. We often had .125" to .25" of under sizing on our interference fit. I'm sure Andymark can enlighten me as to the actual material, but I', sure they tested if thoroughly.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Emphasis mine.

We actually cut a bunch of samples over the summer in .025" increments to test this size, and found that .425" flat-to-flat is the right number for this specific profile and material combination. This number would change for a harder or thicker material, as well as a part with less holes in it.

-Nick

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

The Nerf Howler is actually quite rigid!

Throw one and see if you hear a Steam Train Whistle!

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I think Bill might be on to something...

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Wish these were out for our FTC robot this year. The particles are really rigid.

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I'd pay $7 each if they were black. ;)

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Then just anodize them!

But what if da red wunz go fasta!?

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Definitely would appreciate a more neutral color.

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Ok, so should we see the hex shaft removing silicone from the inside of the hex when we press it in, or should the material stretch to fit around the hex shaft?

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Hmm... How sharp will the hex shaft be?

Do we round off the end of a Churro, and push that through?

Or freeze the part, then push a hex broach through it?

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I'm curious if Thunderhex will be to round to get a good grip.

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The wheel should stretch around the axle.

-Nick

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

This is a great product that basically didn't exist before and is far cheaper / lighter than the previous COTS solution for this particular product. I think whining that the color isn't perfect is really not productive!

I also don't think this is, necessarily, inspired by the game. Compliant wheels have been gaining traction (heh) for years, for both intakes and shooters; for compliant game pieces or rigid ones. Did I mention the alternative was $30 on McMaster and with a hub weighed like a pound?

I'm curious to see how well these hold up at 5K RPM, and if they slip on the shaft or anything at that high of a speed.

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I'm not so sure these are well suited for shooters, but time, and testing, will tell.
AM does recommend them for intakes and conveyors though.

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Hey meme king Wil Payne can you edit the word "trap" to "hint"?

Thanks!

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I think these might be good for shooting some things. Maybe wiffle balls?

But the GDC would never do that to us, right? :confused:

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That shape is disturbingly close to the blimp flying at the top of the Steamworks trailer...

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I have said GDC won't give us shooters next year before each of the following year;
2013
2014
2016

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I can attest to the fact that red DOES make things go faster

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This recently posted video does show a team having a robot load a Nerf football into their robot. Maybe they know something....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE3RIf0Xjfs

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I drive past the one and only Wiffle factory every day and I've noticed no unusual activity lately. Plus, I probably would have heard something unless they're VERY good at keeping secrets. The place is smaller than most would think, considering every real Wiffle ball anyone has ever seen came from that little building.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

My team has actually been playing with these this fall... I wanted something challenging for them to prototype around, and these fit the bill when I saw them. At Target. First prototype shooter went about 15 feet run off a drill, could definitely go full length if we spun it up to CIM speed!

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

I agree with the several of you who don't believe that this is some sort of game reveal. These wheels have been showing up on amazing robots for at least the past several years, so it is consistent with many other FRC products that get designed, developed or implemented with high level teams and eventually become COTS. My team was developing something similar within the past year, to be 3D printed using NinjaFlex. This new product makes that effort kind of obsolete.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Frisbee intake wheels?

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Well if we truly believe these are specifically designed for this year's game they should be sold out within the week and will not be back in stock until mid to late March. :ahh:

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I have similar concerns about the wheel slipping on the hex at high speeds but I think a pair of plates will keep the rubber from expanding near the hex.

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Shoutouts to Team Botman's 2014 bot, which used frisbees as a grabber.

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Back in the day when Mike invented these stars for Breakaway soccer balls they worked great. We also made a version with a plastic center hub to stop the problem with rounding out the square hole, these were never released to the public.

They did solve the problem of rounded holes but that little change stiffened them up a little tiny bit and made them less effective. I was pretty amazed how that little change made such a big difference.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

The Nerf Howler is also in stock and readily available from Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.co.au, and elsewhere...which, combined with an earlier not-supposed-to-be-a-hint-but-was-totally-a-hint, tells me the Nerf Howler is not the game piece.

(Of the four possible hints--if you count this as one--that point to the game piece being a standard regulation football, it's the "First Choice Points to get some shipped, International Teams Only" that seals the deal in my mind. There is literally no other playing piece I can think of that is ubiquitous in the US but difficult to obtain elsewhere. I've been pretty good at guessing overall game themes most years, and game elements some years, and I've never been as convinced I'm right as I am this year.... That said, it'll be fun to be right, and as fun to be wrong.)

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Andymark just uploaded a new video on Facebook with the following http://imgur.com/a/PHbIB

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WHEELS!

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New LED Strips at AndyMark (WITH CONNECTORS EVEN!). What could this mean?

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-3543.htm

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That international game piece option was available in 2016, as well.

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Yeah, that's just a good response to the years of problems with international teams being unable to get the most basic stuff to compete. I agree that it doesn't give anything away.

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Sorry, I'm out of it. What are these hints? I am aware of the dirigible in the teaser video, but I have yet to see any other hints. I haven't been sauntering through CD very much lately, though, so I am sure I've missed it here. Would you mind terribly sharing what the possible "hints" were? Thanks.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

I wasn't aware of that.

Ah, well. Back to the speculation that I'm probably wrong.... :D

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Add a few flame stickers. Problem solved! :p

I started to think that dice(any size) might be game pieces. I see a Rubik's Cube in that picture...Vex Starstruck has a cube-shaped game piece... There's also a small toy robot between the large grey wheel and the stack of wheels. Minibot hint?

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What Christmas goodies has Nick been baking for us?

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That FTC teams want lights?

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https://twitter.com/andymarkinc/stat...84665857986560

:ahh: What the heck is holding up the Canadian flag right at the beginning? That seems to resemble a pole climbing or zipline minibot/mechanism of some sort...

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

I don't know what it is but I don't like it...I have heard the whispers or horror stories of mini bots.

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I hate to say it, but that's definitely a pole-climbing minibot. You can see the two motors (top one on the left side of the chassis, bottom one on the right side of the chassis), and the power connector wires falling underneath the frame. The frame has cutouts to guide the minibot along the pole near the top.

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What do you think the limit switch at the top is for? Seeing if the minibot hits the top?

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An item's availability on Amazon and other retailers is not a very good indicator of it being used as a FRC game piece, especially since FIRST almost always has game pieces made with some kind of branding on them.

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For you youngin's that weren't around in 2011, a common minibot design included a limit switch at the top to cut power to the motors as soon as the minibot impacted the plate at the top of the pole.

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What are the chances that the minibot shown is from 2011 and AndyMark is just messing with us?

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Almost 100%.

EDIT: 100% chance that it's a minibot from 2011. Whether AM is just trolling or not I don't know, nor is it late enough in December for me to actually care. :rolleyes:

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Because of how overvalued minibots were, the top teams iterated on these until there was pretty substantial design convergence to the minibot you saw in the video. Very similar to the arms race of can grabbers in 2015.

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I'm far more interested to know what's in Lawrence of Canadia's hand in that video.

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Looks like a DOG shifter.

Looks like a dog gear (http://www.andymark.com/Gear-p/am-0020.htm), although I'm not certain.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Woof.

-Nick

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Come on Nick, show us the 1.5 lb flipcim shifting transmission. ;)

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Fixed it for you.

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Still seems a bit overkill to me.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Most car insurance companies would agree with you

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

I never heard of anyone treating motors with liquefied gasses in 2015. My understanding is that the 2011 minibot arms race was steeper than the 2015 grabbers. What surprised me when I went back and read about it was that no one (as far as I found) had implemented an ultra-simple CVT (continuously variable transmission) nor taken advantage of the ability of the minibot to have a mobile center of gravity.

Wait, what? Ultra-simple CVT? That can't be!
Actually, for a short, drag-race type run, there IS an ultra-simple CVT design. Don't think of doing this in gears, but in the diameter of the wheel. That is, start with a rather small wheel engaging the climb shaft, but with a bit of tread wrapped around it so that the wheel diameter increases (and therefore the effective gear ratio decreases) as the mini-bot completes its run. With proper design of the initial wheel shape, this transition can be continuous.

Mobile Center of Gravity? Whachu Talkin' 'bout, Willis? While it was a while back that I looked at the mini-bot rules, it seemed to me that a mini-bot was allowed to be about three times as tall as it actually had to be. So -- build the mini-bot to the shortest length possible, then stand it on a "rack" which raises it to the highest initial altitude allowed. As the robot climbs, the "rack" automatically climbs relative to the robot weight, until, at the top of the climb, the rack reaches the roof to signal contact, though the "real minibot" is still several inches lower.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

The arms race in 2011 was absolutely real, and way more expensive since you were using Tetrix battery packs (and of course you have more than one) and probably smoking Tetrix motors pretty regularly at the higher levels. 2815 may have won two regionals that year, but without a minibot deployment system we were there for fun and the Black Eyed Peas concert. (We actually ditched our tube claw to try to make a mechanism. Wasn't pretty.)

I'd venture a few things set minibots on their path:

1) The restrictive materials rules.
2) The packaging needs of a robot that also (usually) had to hang tubes up high too.
3) Because there was such a huge cost for a botched deployment, you had to get something in the air every match.
4) With the limited power of a Tetrix motor, anything extraneous added mass that then had to be powered upward.

I'd love to know what other teams had developed to the point of sticking on a pole, but I doubt any of them deviated far from the formula by the later weeks of events.

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Speaking of Andymark, here's a possible game hint: https://twitter.com/andymarkinc/stat...84665857986560

I saw a Rubik's Cube with red on one side, blue on another, and yellow on top. Return of coopertition?

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Have to agree... I think the 4 year unusual game piece cycle is going to come true.
Can't wait to see,
Taggerun

P.S. The totes from 2015 do NOT count as unusual game pieces. They are more normal than a frisbee.

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On my tiny phone screen it looked like a really small Omni wheel.

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With the minibot drag races it came down to reducing drag and weight as much as possible. Once FIRST said the transmissions could be modified it was quickly figured out how to remove stages, both to reduce the power loss in the transmission and allow smaller diameter wheels with less rotational inertia and overall weight. Then once FIRST clarified that you could toss the transmission that weight went out the window and the wheels became aluminum rod with some sort of tread, my team used the black surgical tubing turned inside out and carefully cleaned on 1/4" rod drilled and pressed onto the shaft. Then to get it in the power band off the line as quick as possible launch it horizontally so it wasn't fighting gravity and create a ramp so it hit the pole at peak power. Anything that added more than a couple of ounces beyond the battery, motors and the switch to turn it off at the top was at a big disadvantage.

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It looked like a bushing to me.
Just a thought,
Taggerun

Re: New AndyMark Product Game Hint???
 

Sorry to revive a dead-ish thread, but over the holidays I'm training some new programmers with a kitbot we assembled before the break. I am happy to report that these do fit on .5" hex shafts very well, and without much effort!

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Did you get to actually try it out on an intake? And thanks for this. I'll try and twist my team's arm and get them to buy some of these.

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I didn't. I don't actually have any hex shaft stock in my house (I live in an unusual household). That being said, I do have a couple of creative ideas using what I have on hand. I'll see if my programmers and I can whip something up when we meet.

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Is the overall width on that 1/2 or 1"? Thanks!

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This is my guess.

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Yes, I measured it at 1/2" thick.

And OBTW, you can dummy a 1/2" hex shaft with some 5/16" nuts and a bolt.

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Downloaded the model last night and it was 1". Layout drawing and site say 1/2". Just wanted to verify with someone who has one. Thanks again.

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I'm out at the moment, but if memory serves correctly, it was thinner than 1". I'll double check when I'm home.

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There's no way this wheel is going to work well at 5000 rpm. You wouldn't even want to use it as a shooter wheel. It's too compliant and it will buckle (that is if it doesn't explode).

Stick with the McMaster wheels if you want a nice compliant shooter wheel that isn't going to deform like crazy/explode on you.