FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Still not the same given there's possibly new drive teams, and a team isn't coming off of a gauntlet of robot endurance. Feels more like an "All Star Game" than a Super Bowl. Step in the right direction though, and I'm glad they listened to criticism.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

MAKE CHAMPS GREAT AGAIN

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

You can cook a lot of cheesecake in 3 months.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Who is actually going to send their teams to this should they win? There is no incentive to attend this by the winning teams. If FIRST wants this to be successful they need to pay for the teams to travel. This will not be a cheap trip.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Email from Don Bossi:

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Isn't this around the same time IRI usually is? Not that that's a dealbreaker, just curious to see how teams will plan their summers.

Excited to see how it goes this year.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I am very surprised they would hold it so late. I wonder if they are going to restrict teams to only using their withholding allowance over 3 months (no IRI for them) or if they are going to let the championship winning teams completely revamp their robots.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Before everyone goes off talking about cheesecake and expense of traveling, and whatever else you can think of to complain about, remember, you, the FIRST community asked for it, you're getting it! And like they said in the email that just went out to teams, there are still more details to be worked out. Hang tight.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

No joy for FLL








































Again.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I wonder how this impacts teams that have drivers who are seniors or students who have summer jobs, if this event is to crown the "true" champion it seems potentially unfair if all teams don't have their champs winning drive team. Are all FRC/FTC students now going to have to tell their parents to hold off on vacations over this date? Are teams going to want to pay, travel and extend their season another 3 months?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Yeah going to be even harder if a team from outside of North America wins to get them to come to the states again. Is FIRST paying for this and if they are why would they spend thousands on this event.

Wait why won't we just have 1 championship again?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Kudos to FIRST. While the logistics may be complicated and there are many questions still to be answered, this is probably the best we could ask for given what many of us were expecting going into this season.

It's not a Championship, but it is a very cool way to cap off the season. I'm really OK with an All-Star game if that's what it is, it's more than we had and it's not a bad thing IMHO. Hopefully the new partnership with Twitch means there will be a great broadcast to go along with this, something along the lines of a League of Legends LCS finals.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

We actually asked them not to split the championship into two super regionals. This Festival of Champions adds absolutely nothing to the experience of FIRST as a whole.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

#3champs

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Never thought I would have a world championship type event within a 15 minute drive of my house.

Hopefully it all works out as planned.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

#OneChampstoRuleThemAll

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

First thought is what happens if a team can't make it. I know a competition we compete in is likely to coincide with the Festival and I'm sure there are a number of reasons why many teams wouldn't be able to make it. I think being allowed to ask a member of the finalist alliance from the same alliance position to take your place should be allowed in the event that your team can't attend. Either way I like the idea of the event and like that FIRST is acknowledging that there probably should be one final championship alliance.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

That's quite an extreme statement.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Sucks to be on the west coast!

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Well looks like I'll be driving up to New Hampshire this summer.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

man, I guess we can never be satisfied can we?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Chief Delphi is the Goldilocks of the internet.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

IRI usually happens a week before. TRR may be happening that week.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Thankfully TRR won't be state champs for Texas this year, that could have caused problems with some school districts in Texas.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

One champs to rule them all, one champs to find them, One champs to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

It's amazing to see how much negativity there has been already towards this announcement. While obviously it's not a perfect solution it is a pretty serious attempt by FIRST to resolve some of the concerns with 2champs and we should appreciate that. It also seems like a pretty cool experience that is somewhat similar to what Dean's List winners do. (Might even be the same time frame not sure).

While many individuals may be unable to attend due to distance/timing/whatever, I think this is a cool experience that I can't imagine many half champ winners passing up.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

My concern is how teams are going to get there. Will first pay for the 8 teams as well as the chairmans teams to go to this event?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Only like 35 minutes away. Definitely taking a trip up this summer to volunteer.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

How is this an extreme statement? 8 robots and potentially 8 other non competing teams attending an exhibition. The only thing this adds value is to the teams who can afford to actually attend should they qualify or live close. I would say the only thing worth going for would be the dinner at Deans house.

Why am I going to waste my time to watch the webcast? What are they going to give the general audience? Unless they add something of value to the audience with future announcements this idea is dumb. Call me negative if you want but if my team qualifies for this I will not attend.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

It's like the motto of FRC's last world Chairmans award winner. "It's not enough."

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Agreed. I will be stunned if any of the 8 World Champions pass on this event.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

What are they going to fill 2 days with for only 3 matches at most? They could change it to 5, 7, or 9 for more, but it's still the same 3 robots going against each other. Perhaps it'll be a FIRST-sponsored IRI/CC style offseason, with the winning alliances being guaranteed a few matches against each other?

Either way, I'm excited for this. It's a good way to bring the two winning alliances together for some final official play. I assume that any off-seasons will simply move off of the week of the event if they have to.

Edit: just realized this is my 254th post ayy

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I mean, you wasted your time posting in a thread talking about how you're not going to waste your time by watching the webcast, so I really have no idea how you value your time.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I'm quite happy FIRST listened to a lot of the criticism. And I do think it will be cool to have 8 of the top teams all in one place to compete.

While I'm not a fan of 2 champs, I'm glad they tried to come up with a solution that we all asked for.

With that, questions that immediately came to mind (that I hope FIRST is working on):

1. Will FIRST pay for shipping, team flights, and/or board? Or any of the 3? If so, how many members of each team? This adds a lot of cost to teams that did well and have not calculated this in their budget for the 2017 season

2. Will teams have to keep their robot bagged for another 3 months? This will eliminate a lot of off-seasons that come in between Champs and the Festival, including IRI
This will also extend the season another 3 months, teams who choose to continue work into the summer will prove victorious.

3. This is in the summer (I understand, since students and mentors need to catch up on school + work), how will this work with students vacations and mentors having to take more time off work?


Overall,
I am happy that FIRST listened to criticism and are trying to accommodate our requests. If 3476 wins Houston champs, I will be very excited to head over to NH!
Hopefully some of the other questions on the thread and these and answered as the season goes on.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

You just outlasted 396 other teams to win a Championship, punched your ticket to a once-in-an-ever experience three months out, including the opportunity to play for the undisputed world championship, and you're worried about travel?

I recognize three months is genuinely tight for our friends on other continents, but for the North American teams: come on. That's time to get the local hype machine in motion and raise the necessary funds.

I do hope that FIRST lays out any travel support and rule addenda sooner rather than later, so there are no surprises for the teams that qualify. But as an initial public announcement, I'm genuinely excited by this email. (The office here at AndyMark went into instant hype mode.)

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Also my guess for venue is the Verizon Wireless Arena (old home of GSR).

And to just keep people from being afraid, yes the snow is gone by July up here.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I hope the "Education” opportunity includes a FIRST Conference like at Championships!

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

It's great to see that FIRST came up with a solution that will be implemented the same year as the split championship system.

For outsiders, I really hope that the Festival will air on TV considering the finals are an All-Star type of competition and (sort of) showcase the peak of performance out of all the teams in FRC. What would be really cool is if FIRST could also air the presentations/videos of the two CMP Chairman's Award recipients to show support for both the robot and their highest award. Maybe they could even sprinkle in a sort of ESPN-esque season recap featuring match footage from each week with commentary from GameSense.

There's a lot of opportunity to turn the Festival of Champs into a great TV special for STEM and FIRST.

Also, will we see certain festivities such as Scholarship Row, CMP Panels, Intro/Closing Ceremony Bands, etc be hosted at the Festival rather than at each respective Championship?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I wouldn't. Many teams struggle enough to have the resources to go to champs. It's easy to say that if they really want to go that they will find a way but the reality is that some teams may not be able to afford this or be able to accommodate going in the summer.

I am all for FIRST having an extra event but it seems like there is mixed messaging. Is this to crown the FIRST champs or is it just an exhibition with other cool activities going on?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Indianapolis (either immediately before or after IRI) would have been the ideal time and place for this event. It would add value to the trip (presumably the half-champs winners would get IRI invitations as well), would have supplied dozens of other teams worth of spectators, and would be closer to a central location (which, as we all know, is a top priority!).

That said, this is better than nothing and leaves open the door to media coverage with a higher level of polish than any prior FIRST competition has ever had. I'm sure all of the teams who qualify will be pumped to be involved.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Well, why can't it be both a crowning of champs and an exhibition of cool STEM stuff? This is the first year they are doing this, and it's due to the whole community asking for it.

If they made an event because we complained, I'm sure we might have some say about the purpose of the event in the years going forward.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I imagine another big sticking point even if FIRST pays is going to be mentors being able to get off work. I know of several mentors on our team who burned through their vacation time last year and wouldn't be able to swing it for another event especially with only 3 potential matches.

This isn't about the mentors necessarily having to be their to teach and help but to be there to fit school criteria of chaperoning.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

It can be both but we will need to see if FIRST decides that the winners are world champs (maybe universe champions?). It could be similar to how Duluth does the Double Decc'r winner where the two regionals face off against each other. It's cool but doesn't really mean anything.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I'd go if possible. Let's not speculate on unannounced logistics and/or cost.

Bottom line, it is still a great opportunity for the students that they didn't have before.

David

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Universal champion is taken:



World champion is fine by me. :)

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I hope cheesecake is allowed, encouraged, and maybe paid for. Git rid of the BOM cost limits too! I want to see stupid good robots out there with over the top performance and obscene top scores because why not!? Great announcement FIRST.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

"Where's the CD thread about the cool new thing?"

...

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

We get it. You don't like this. The whole regional -> Champs -> Festival thing is bad. Would it help if we renamed things? How about regional -> super regional -> champs?

Someone is just never happy.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Just going to leave this here:

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I would hate to win one of the #2Champs in my senior year of high school now

FIRST Festival of Champions
 

It's OK, we still have Chezy Champs.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

While we're all unsure of how the rules will work regarding robot repairs and rework between the Championship and the Festival of Champions (it's not really "cheesecake" if you build it for yourself over 2 months), the concept of a competition in which the alliances already know their partners and their opponents and have months of time to prepare for the match-up excites me greatly. It's a whole different dynamic than everything else we've experienced in FRC before.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I'm happy for this even if it just means that when the option of holding a single champs comes back on the table in a couple years they realize the additional overhead necessary when making the decision to split champs. There is a good chance that the FOC championship matches will be the most expensive matches of FRC ever.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Agreed. Not knowing the rules for FoC, it seems like teams might want to pick other teams that are geographically near them so they can practice together from May-July.

-Mike

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Maybe they want to make it televised. This format would make it easier and more watchable.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Agreed - although my suspicion is FIRST will impound the robots at champs and take them directly to New Hampshire.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

It will be interesting to see what format this ends up being.
If it is just 8 teams.... will there be new alliances formed?
If there are quals... then how does that work? It only takes 16 matches total to get all the teams 12 matches a piece considering that each match has 6 teams playing. ( I am sure that won't work and will probably need some surrogate appearances... but it won't take many....)

Do the the top two qualifiers then get to pick alliances as normal?
Hmmmm looks like the two #1 picks and alliance captains from the other champs could get together.... at least two of them...

This could be interesting.

What does everyone else think? How do you think they will do it?

Surely it won't simply be the Houston winning alliance vs the St. Louis winning alliance... that would be pretty short and hardly worth the money to get the robot out there.... and the team...

Ideas?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I'm 100% for this. Also how cool would it be to be the first ever.... :ahh:

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I think it will be this.

It is simple, but would be awesome for the teams that can go.

-Mike

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I would guess that it is more likely that the 4th bot on an alliance wouldn't attend than the first three. It is harder to justify all of the logistics and money required to attend if you are unlikely to compete.

I really hope all 8 teams go, and think they probably will, but I don't think FIRST will cover travel just to ensure that all 8 teams attend when you are almost guaranteed to have the top 3 teams on each alliance at the event for the all-star game.

Overall, I am excited about this announcement and think it is a step in the right direction to mitigate the complaints of having 2 champs.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I think this is as good as it was gonna get in terms of a culminating event, with the only possible exception being having all einstein teams from both half champs playing in a single division for qualifications and elims in the summer (which has a ton of logistical problems).

But...let's be real. You're dramatically oversimplifying things. The progression you've laid out here is not correct. This event isn't "champs". It's a cool expo of half champions vs half champions.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

They could have divisions basically be an isolated District, and then teams above a certain percentile get qualified in.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Thank you for this information. Here in North Carolina, we delay, if not cancel school at the possibility of ice.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I doubt I can seriously add anything to either the saltpile or the conversation at this point, but I'll try.

This post is my own 2c, as are all. Take it with a grain.

The Festival of Champions is FIRST's, well, first major attempt at a larger, less-robot centric event, that focuses on the teams and the effort. It may still be a significant throw from some of our offseasons (CC/IRI), but it's the first step, and as the first year we're getting 2Cha,ps, I'm glad that FIRST is making an effort to appease some of the problems that people had with 2Champs.

I'm just glad there'll be some matchup between our 2Champion Alliances.

Logistically, however, I imagine it'd be difficult for some teams to make it, considering some students may have graduated, moved on, taken jobs, and / or their mentors be able to burn yet another 3 days of vacation to go.

I hope for the best, plan for the worst. Same we all do on and off the field.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Probably true, but as Lil' Lavery mentioned, knowing your opponents for three months should make strategy really interesting, so fourth robots will be more important here than they've ever been.

Overall, I think this is probably the best outcome given 2champs, though the timing is a little tricky.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

You're killing me Karthik. :D

My first reaction;
Is FIRST going to pay for our Israeli alliance partners when we qualify, and can I stretch for another vacation the whole week from IRI to FOC. Who wouldn't want to go?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

What happens when a school-sponsored team wins Houston or St. Louis/Detroit and their now-graduated drive team isn't allowed by their school to compete at FoC?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

The same thing that happens when FIRST makes an earnest effort to address concerns presented, people will complain on Chief Delphi about the things not being perfect.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I could point to three possible venues.

1.) SNHU Arena, downtown Manchester (I thought it was still called the Verizon Wireless Arena too, thanks Google): for the reasons stated above. It's a solid hockey arena that could arguably hold the most visitors. Website doesn't have any events posted during that time, and it will be long past the arena's main summer use: graduations.

2.) SNHU Fieldhouse (Also known as the Kickoff Venue): Smaller, but has good flow between auxiliary gym and main gym. Could definitely handle the team count, arguably lacking on comfortable seating as it's mostly bleachers. Has a solid VIP space and parking. Could be already booked for sports and summer classes.

3.) Memorial High School: If you want to go #OGFRC, there's only one venue. Has basically the same pros and cons as the SNHU Fieldhouse, but it also lacking a solid VIP area and parking for the crowd size. But, RiverRage has run just fine there for many years.

My gut says SNHU arena, but my heart wants Memorial.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

They have three months to press for an exception, or train up a new driver with whatever they have on hand.

As for the whole "knowing your opponent for three months" thing: It does invite an opportunity for teams to be cutting promos on one another (within the bounds of good fun and Gracious Professionalism, of course) that I hope these teams take. Truly great feuds--whether in sport, in business, or anywhere--are born just as much out of lore and off-field exchanges as they are action on the field. What made Ric Flair a legend of the squared circle? Steve Spurrier, on the gridiron? Both were tremendously talented at their chosen profession, but they also always had something to say about their next opponent to draw interest.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Looks like I'm making yet another long road trip... Yay.

(Seriously, I'll attend/volunteer if my work schedule allows... just "because".)

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Yes...

I want this: https://youtu.be/D59Bjl3MWWs

We must have a parody of that!

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

This idea could be great, if FIRST executes this properly. One thing I fear, however, is major burnout for team members who make it to this. People are putting in massive amounts of hours for 4 months to make an Einstein winning-capable robot, and now they might feel obligated to spend another 2.

So on the one hand, for the team members, I hope this more like a relaxed all-star show.

On the other hand, for the fans and the competition, I hope this decides the de facto world champion.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Change and Growth are not easy for any organization and especially stakeholders. I have experienced this with my team as well as being in FIM. I applaud FIRST for listening to their stakeholders and addressing their concerns. I believe they have done a great job working with the community to come up with a solution that meets the concerns that were brought up. I list this "problem" as "one of those good problems to have".

I get to work on problems like this all the time.

Let's be real. Students are passionate about learning well into the summer. I literally have students coming to me and basically begging me to get into the school to do more planning before kickoff. They beg me to come to school on days the school is off. They beg me to get into the school on a snow day. (For those of you who live in the north, you know this is crazy talk) I am REALLY proud to be a part of this awesome organization that inspires kids to learn, then learn some more. NO other program does this like FIRST does. I would say VEX but I just let them take that robot home with them. LOL They are like "Mom, Mr. Spiece let me bring it home to work on". Mom says, "It's 1am and you have school in the morning."

Anyhow, I have not announced this to the kids yet but I can't wait to tomorrow night. They are going to be fired up about going to hang with Dean at his house. They are going to love this idea and I am going to do whatever I can to help them make this happen.

My mentors have even offered to shave their heads if they make it to Einstein. So, if you see a 60-year-old engineer, wearing orange with a freshly shaved head, you will see a bunch of awesome kids right behind him ready to take on the world.

As for the logistics, this happened recently in FIM where our State Championships is on the west side of the state. Us, as adults, find ways to help the kids to make it happen.

Like I tell my kids, "Yes there is more money out there". We just have to ask! We are going to have work, we are going to do it together and we are going to get there. Once you have cooked over 50,000 Turkey Legs in 7 weekends, you start to learn that, Yes, it can be done.

Talk to your kids, come up with a plan and go get it. Once you find out you qualified, you have 14 weeks to come up with that money. Go find it! If there is anything I can do to help, I would be happy to help out.

Well, I think I made my point here. I am sure someone will have something to say about but remember why we are here. Remember what makes champions and remember we are all leaders and leaders sacrifice for their teams.

Here is a video from John Maxwell on Leadership: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpzkgQ33RVc

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

While you get points for such an edgy post, it's an honest question that Ryan asked. He's not playing Chicken Little, he's just alluding to the charade that FIRST is pulling again with punting vague news about short-term paradigm-shifting events out into the open right before cornerstone events in the season calendar. I'm for it. FIRST wrecked the Corvette and tried to replace it with some Honda Civics that definitely had some ricers with the title at one point. After seeing that some didn't think that was a fair trade, they threw in a Camaro. Not the same, but just try to focus on the same bumblebee yellow and ignore the fact that you can't see out of the back unless you have x-ray vision.

The split announcement in 2015 came right around the height of competition season between weeks 6 and 7. The split designations, if I recall correctly, came in right before 2016 Champs. Now, the announcement about a new, additional event is coming right before 2017 kickoff. Sooner or later it comes off as less coincidental and more overt. It's PR 101; take out the trash and dump news you don't like at a time where it's opportune for the constituency to forget about it (S1E13 of The West Wing uses this in its title).

I don't necessarily blame them for trying to sate the inmates of this asylum, but in the famous words: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me Twice.... Won't get fooled again. I expect some key questions to be answered and I hope solutions to some legitimate issues are developed for the good of the program, but don't let the Chicken Littles of this thread allow some key, legitimate concerns to be ignored.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

So, would it be different if it was nationally televised on prime time television? I guess I think of another exhibition robotics event I am familiar with that crowns a "champion". I might be misinformed here.....

Overall, regardless of what it is called. The community will consider this the crowning of a champion and I would support such an assertion.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I feel like you gotta go with the American Dream

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Reserving judgement for a moment, I'm curious as to how they'll handle the fact that this is 3 months after the two Championships. Do they allow teams to continue making robot changes, potentially having final matches with completely different robots? Or are the robots to be kept in bags (nevermind that this would suck, plus the teams would just use practise bots at home).

It reminds me a bit of college football, where teams are used to playing every week (with an occasional bye week), then for the bowl games they have a full month to prepare for one opponent. The better coached, better prepared team tends to win (in the regular season, talent plays a bigger role). If anything, this is more extreme.

Anyhow, that's just my 2 cents. Although I get how some people would be mollified by this, it doesn't make me any happier. My problem with 2Champs was never the part where we don't have a world champion alliance crowned. It was the part where half the championship teams go to one place, and the other half goes to a different place (which obviously isn't going to be solved).

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Agreed...

Known unknown issues: Handling of robots post-2Champs (bag 'em, "confiscate" 'em, or unrestricted use of 'em), transport of teams and/or robots to NH (particularly if international), alternates if 1+ teams can't make it, and the whole "3-month gap".


What I think FIRST failed to see in the first place is that bringing more teams to the "Championship Experience" is not the same as bringing the "Championship Experience" to more teams...
And that like it or not, the vehicle they chose to use for culture change is a COMPETITION and there was no clear winner (which clear winner you'd expect to see from a COMPETITION). Their failure to properly account for that is what is essentially forcing them to deal with a method for finding a single clear winner, and THAT is causing some interesting discussion.


That being said, it will be very interesting to see which route they go for the Festival. If properly hyped up, and teams participate like they mean it, it could do wonders for promotion of FIRST (and STEM). But if something goes wrong--the brighter the spotlight, the easier it is to fail--including if one or more teams declines to attend and no replacement is found, then what you end up with is a big mess.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

So anyway, what do you call the field upon which the champions compete? Zwei Steine?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

The Einstein-Rosen Field of course!

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Copernicus or Kepler would work. Work that changed just about everything humans thought they knew about how the solar system worked...

But maybe Brahe (Tycho Brahe) would work better.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

As someone who is not affiliated with an FRC team this year, much less one of the select few that one might guess at having a high chance at going to this event, I can't wait. Might grab some friends to watch the matches and reminisce.

Lots of details still up in the air but I can't imagine what a fantastic experience it will be for the students on those teams that will be in attendance. Especially for those third picks that might not necessarily be perennial powerhouses.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

No, nothing about this could be considered equivalent to Jon's comparison. Half champs are basically super regionals right now. in a regional-super regional-champs progression, super regional performance would qualify hundreds (unsure what FIRST's plan was, I would assume 200-400 teams) for a "true" championship. This is going to be 8 teams. Some of those 8 may not even be the winners of each half champs. Some may be the winners in name only, if they have new drive teams or cannot maintain their robots/practice between half champs and the festival of champions.

I don't take offense to the notion that this is a solution to no actual overall winning alliance, I just think it's disingenuous for Jon to suggest people are being pedantic and that this is the same as what we'd have if we got the original super regional-champs progression FIRST put forward years ago.

I would personally not consider this crowning a true champion. For me that definition would require something like all Einstein teams (ideally division finalists too) from each half champs meeting and playing quals/elims to determine a champion.

Realistically that's not going to happen and it's kind of awkward to in effect have two super regionals that are called "Championships" and marketed as being no different than they were before and then both the winners (and some losers) progress to another event that's actually the real championship where you end up with different World Champions than were champions at their respective "Championships".

That being said I'm certainly more excited about this, even with whatever flaws it may have, than just having 2 half champs winning alliances and ending there.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

This is a tough crowd.


I, for one, think it's awesome. I was very glad to read the announcement.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I think this most recent announcement is just another reminder of the finality of #2champs, which many community members have been unhappy with for almost two years. Cory summed it up pretty well, its better than nothing... :o

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Would it be CD if it was any different?

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Can't say I'm surprised at the amount of salt on this thread, just another day on Chief Drama.

With #2Champs being a solidified thing, this Festival sounds like a step in the right direction. Perfect solution? Maybe not, but it's not an event I can roast like the Thanksgiving turkey before it has even happened. Can't argue with how it might interfere with teams' IRI plans though. Interested to see what other details will be released in the upcoming months.

Also happy to see an event of this scale take place here in NH. Home of HQ, Manchester really hasn't had anything to attract FIRSTers from other areas since GSR stopped.

Stay positive folks, we have a whole season to get through first.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Nothing against Memorial, but I think after winning the Championship, teams would want a bit of a bigger stage to perform on with higher production value than a high school.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

It's not like you're going to get a full arena for some-amount of 8 teams and whoever from the local area decides to come spectate.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Hey man, you need salt to prepare for the snow this weekend.

Actually, I think that there have been some good points in this thread and it seems like most people are ok with it but it's not a great solution.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Yeah, that's true, but again after beating out 396 other teams plus the 3000+ in the competition, you'd want a step UP in production and venue value, not down.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Same. I can't imagine an event like this at memorial or the fieldhouse. It would feel like an offseason. SNHU arena is perfect and has great seating (and we all miss playing there).

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Say some more please.

I look at it from the standpoint that my team built one of the best robots in the world. I learned lots about engineering, teamwork, doing things in my community. I'm entering my university with a renewed understanding that hard work alone isn't enough, but it's collaboration with a working team is what I strive for. I didn't earn champs, my team through our collective efforts earned Champs. And it's the work with other great people that will lead me to success in life.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

WHAT WE KNOW
* Something called the FIRST Festival of Champions is scheduled to occur July 28-29 in New Hampshire.
* The Chairman's and Inspire Award winning teams from both Championship events will have "important roles and places of honor."
* It will include the winning FTC and FRC alliances from both Championship events. And that they will meet "in competition" on July 29th.

WHAT WE DON'T KNOW
* What role the Chairman's and Inspire Award winners will play
* What "competition" the FTC and FRC alliances will compete it. One can assume it will be the same STEAMworks game we will first see on Saturday, but the truth is we don't know...

What I know from many years in FIRST is to never assume, and always watch for curveballs.
WHAT IF... the "competition" included a brand new game, in which the alliances have to build a brand new robot in the hours leading up to the competition, and it was all live-streamed. We just don't know (yet).

Let's collectively step back. Take a deep breath. Focus on what is immediately in front of us (remember what happens this Saturday?). And patiently wait for more information from FIRST.

Oh... and congratulations FIRST, for launching the biggest shinny object of distraction just days before FRC kick-off. ;)

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Seriously. This thread isn't event that bad. There are a few with over the top complaints as usual but most people have brought up pretty decent points and questions.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

If it were any different, it would be a better ChiefDelphi.

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

I did notice that "Steamworks" or any implication that the competition would be a championship for that year's game was conspicuous by its absence.


There are all sorts of tradeoffs about how to take 3000+ teams and whittle them down to "a championship". What I like about the announcement is that it creates some sort of defining moment, when the winners get together to be crowned champion. There shouldn't be any pretense that our current system somehow determines the "best robot" or "best team". There's just too much chance in the system, and that is by design. If the final competition required teams to build or modify robots on the spot, wouldn't that be cool? Oh, and no mentors allowed...

Re: FIRST Festival of Champions
 

Why would you ban mentors from the culmination of a program which is explicitly based on mentoring, per the FIRST mission statement?