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wjd13 04-01-2017 22:02

Twitch Stream
 
Hello CD

I know there's been a bit of discussion about the pros and cons of streaming kickoff on Twitch this year. But I have a couple of questions.

1. Twitch is always highlighting community members/events on their front page. To my knowledge, no FRC event has ever made the front page. Does anyone know if Twitch plans on highlighting Kickoff? Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to introduce a huge audience to FIRST?


2. Streams on Twitch can be tracked by their number of viewers. To make the front page by default, it takes about 10,000 viewers. Think we can make it happen?

Hype levels are reaching critical levels...

JohnFogarty 04-01-2017 22:09

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Last year the FIRST World Championship was on the front page of twitch.

Libby Kamen knows a lot more about the ins and outs of twitch than I would bet most of the community does. Now I haven't read the other thread, but I bet she could share more about the pros and cons.

wjd13 04-01-2017 22:11

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty (Post 1625308)
Last year the FIRST World Championship was on the front page of twitch.

Libby Kamen knows a lot more about the ins and outs of twitch than I would bet most of the community does I haven't read the other thread but I bet she could share more about the pros and cons.

Alright, thanks :)

tjf 04-01-2017 22:19

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wjd13 (Post 1625304)
Hello CD

I know there's been a bit of discussion about the pros and cons of streaming kickoff on Twitch this year. But I have a couple of questions.

1. Twitch is always highlighting community members/events on their front page. To my knowledge, no FRC event has ever made the front page. Does anyone know if Twitch plans on highlighting Kickoff? Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to introduce a huge audience to FIRST?


2. Streams on Twitch can be tracked by their number of viewers. To make the front page by default, it takes about 10,000 viewers. Think we can make it happen?

Hype levels are reaching critical levels...

I'm pretty sure that Einsteins made front page of Twitch during 2016 CMP, but I might be wrong. EDIT: Down below, Francis of RSN confirms what I thought I remembered.

In response to your second question, front-page streams can be manually pinned by Twitch Staff should they deem the cause good enough. One example in recent memory was Zeldathon on SuperMCGamer's page, holding front-page admist 10k+ streams with 4-7k viewers, as they were fundraising for St. Jude.

It's entirely possible FRC hits critical mass and gets to front-page, but we'll need some significant polish or a blessing from our OhMyDog overlords. Here's hoping that Twitch has FRC alum. (They do, see below for confirmation.)

Libby K 04-01-2017 22:24

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wjd13 (Post 1625304)
1. Twitch is always highlighting community members/events on their front page. To my knowledge, no FRC event has ever made the front page. Does anyone know if Twitch plans on highlighting Kickoff? Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to introduce a huge audience to FIRST?


2. Streams on Twitch can be tracked by their number of viewers. To make the front page by default, it takes about 10,000 viewers. Think we can make it happen?

I've been summoned!

Of note: FIRST was on the front page when GameSense was doing FIRSTChampLive. FIRST and Twitch are working together on bringing the audiences together, and Twitch is also working with the individual community shows (Robo Sports Network, FIRST Updates Now, etc).

They have been introduced & are well acquainted - it's some of why Kickoff has moved to Twitch! I'm sure the folks behind the shows can say more on their end, if they'd like. I'm just speaking from the level I know.

To your second point, I think what might do us in is that while each Kickoff location has hundreds or thousands of people, that's still only one Twitch 'view' - the computer it's being played from.

I would hope that FIRST is in the hopper for front-page for this weekend. It'd be great to bring more eyes!

In the same vein, though, I hope HQ is ready with moderation and anti-spam tools in chat. I'd hate for a big-name toxic streamer to go and bother our stream and make the Twitch chat a less than gracious place (as twitch-chat can sometimes be.)

TL;DR STEAMWORKS OR RITO SMOrc

Francis-134 04-01-2017 22:25

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Yes, FRC has been on the front page of Twitch. RSN and FIRST worked with Twitch last year to put the FIRSTChampLIVE broadcast especially divisional playoffs and Einstein on the front page. We also got it on the front page this year during Chezy Champs.

And Twitch has TONS of FRC alumni, including our man Zach who's been working with many folks getting Twitch more involved with FIRST.

Eugene Fang 04-01-2017 22:43

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Perhaps off topic, but does it seem like the countdown on the stream is counting down to 11AM Eastern (instead of 10 or 10:30)?

https://www.twitch.tv/firstinspires

tjf 04-01-2017 22:45

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene Fang (Post 1625327)
Perhaps off topic, but does it seem like the countdown on the stream is counting down to 11AM Eastern (instead of 10 or 10:30)?

https://www.twitch.tv/firstinspires

Just did some quick back-of-computer math, it checks out. Either they forgot daylights savings time, or they are counting down to manual code release, just to venture a guess.

Eugene Fang 04-01-2017 22:53

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tjf (Post 1625328)
Just did some quick back-of-computer math, it checks out. Either they forgot daylights savings time, or they are counting down to manual code release, just to venture a guess.

It's also interesting because the seconds don't add up to 60 either.

tjf 04-01-2017 23:28

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene Fang (Post 1625334)
It's also interesting because the seconds don't add up to 60 either.

Twitch can have a 20-40 second delay depending on quality options and a number of other factors. Click the gear and open Debug to see more advanced frame stats.

Edxu 04-01-2017 23:32

Re: Twitch Stream
 
If only we had enough viewership to get custom emotes...

KappaKamen

Eugene Fang 04-01-2017 23:42

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tjf (Post 1625356)
Twitch can have a 20-40 second delay depending on quality options and a number of other factors. Click the gear and open Debug to see more advanced frame stats.

I'm not using my clock, I'm using the current time and countdown times on the stream.

jaredhk 04-01-2017 23:50

Re: Twitch Stream
 
A pro to Twitch is that I can reliably embed it on my team's website prior to the day of. We can send members directly to our website which they are familiar with and know that they will find their way.

Francis-134 04-01-2017 23:50

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edxu (Post 1625357)
If only we had enough viewership to get custom emotes...

KappaKamen


Lil' Lavery 05-01-2017 00:31

Re: Twitch Stream
 
My only question: Will HYPERLUL be enabled?

FrankJ 05-01-2017 11:18

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Of course my company's firewall blocks twitch as a gaming site. :mad:

RoboTigers1796 05-01-2017 12:06

Re: Twitch Stream
 
It will be interesting getting this running well around our NYC dept of Ed Websense filtering. I like the twitch platform but i'm sure it will be an issue for a lot more teams doing kickoff from their schools. We're creative so I'm sure we will all find a way.

Also it's good to see Twitch is finally recognizing FIRST on a large scale instead of picking and choosing acceptable streams.
Quite the opposite from banning our 2015 NYC Regional stream mid day for "non gaming content" without further explanation despite reaching out multiple times :rolleyes:

BigJ 05-01-2017 12:18

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTigers1796 (Post 1625491)
It will be interesting getting this running well around our NYC dept of Ed Websense filtering. I like the twitch platform but i'm sure it will be an issue for a lot more teams doing kickoff from their schools. We're creative so I'm sure we will all find a way.

Also it's good to see Twitch is finally recognizing FIRST on a large scale instead of picking and choosing acceptable streams.
Quite the opposite from banning our 2015 NYC Regional stream mid day for "non gaming content" without further explanation despite reaching out multiple times :rolleyes:

Twitch has changed a lot in that regard since 2015.

JohnSchneider 05-01-2017 12:31

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJ (Post 1625497)
Twitch has changed a lot in that regard since 2015.

Well they had to go backwards to go forwards. They used to always have non-gaming content when they were justin.tv

tjf 05-01-2017 12:52

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider (Post 1625501)
Well they had to go backwards to go forwards. They used to always have non-gaming content when they were justin.tv

Now you have IRL, Creative, and Mukbang (communal eating), though I think you could use either of the first two for FRC.

Kearse 05-01-2017 13:15

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wjd13 (Post 1625304)
Hello CD

1. Twitch is always highlighting community members/events on their front page. To my knowledge, no FRC event has ever made the front page. Does anyone know if Twitch plans on highlighting Kickoff? Wouldn't that be a good opportunity to introduce a huge audience to FIRST?


2. Streams on Twitch can be tracked by their number of viewers. To make the front page by default, it takes about 10,000 viewers. Think we can make it happen?

Hype levels are reaching critical levels...

Realistically, kickoff isn't the best time to introduce a large crowd of spectators. With no gameplay to watch and little understanding of what you're dropping in on most people would tune out pretty quickly and be turned off.

It would still be exposure which is nice, but a live competition with commentary/video playback is likely much better for creating new fans of FRC.

bobbysq 05-01-2017 13:39

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tjf (Post 1625508)
Now you have IRL, Creative, and Mukbang (communal eating), though I think you could use either of the first two for FRC.

You can switch it to Social Eating between quals and alliance selection Kappa

Eugene Fang 06-01-2017 02:04

Re: Twitch Stream
 
There seems to be a second, closed-captioned stream. https://www.twitch.tv/firstinspires1

cbale2000 06-01-2017 11:21

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTigers1796 (Post 1625491)
Also it's good to see Twitch is finally recognizing FIRST on a large scale instead of picking and choosing acceptable streams.
Quite the opposite from banning our 2015 NYC Regional stream mid day for "non gaming content" without further explanation despite reaching out multiple times :rolleyes:

Are they actually not banning FIRST Streams now? I've been hesitant to use and/or promote Twitch streams at our event since our stream got taken down a few years back for the same reason.

The Non-Gaming Content bans, as far as I understood were an automatic 24-hour ban resulting from too many users flagging a page. Unfortunately Twitch has such slow support that the event would be over by the time anything could be done about it. :(

Does anyone know if Twitch has any sort of partner program that gives pages immunity from automatic bans like that? If they do it might be something for events to look into.

Lil' Lavery 06-01-2017 11:46

Re: Twitch Stream
 
@cbale2000

As mentioned earlier in the thread, Twitch now has categories for non-gaming content ("IRL," creative, and even eating). So no more fear of having non-gaming content banned.

And, yes, Twitch does have a partnership program. The FRC GameSense channel is partnered on Twitch. But partnership does not grant immunity from bans (AFAIK), although it does grant a bevy of different features (custom emotes, integrated subscription system, etc).

jaredhk 06-01-2017 12:02

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene Fang (Post 1625814)
There seems to be a second, closed-captioned stream. https://www.twitch.tv/firstinspires1

This is interesting...I was looking at the stream around 9:00 PM Pacific yesterday and the embed of firstinspires that I have on my team website was showing offline. I went to their Twitch page and they were "hosting firstinspires1." It looks like this is still happening. For reference, people can go to milkenknights.com/steamworks so see how the embed appears.

RoboTigers1796 06-01-2017 12:03

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Sean,
Those sections however have very strict guidelines. For example to not be banned for misusing IRL a person(the broadcaster) is required to be on camera
( https://help.twitch.tv/customer/port...672652-irl-faq)

Code:

A: IRL is specifically for vlog-inspired, interactive content. If you are unsure whether the content you want to share fits within IRL, please set your broadcast to Not Playing.
A: Yes, you must be actively interacting with your audience when streaming in the IRL category. Unlike a lifecast, you should be the focus, either as a visible part of the stream or through providing commentary.

And for creative, build site streams would definitely fit the requirements but I think competition streams wouldn't.
https://help.twitch.tv/customer/port...1-creative-faq
Code:

Electronic and robotic projects
Cooking and baking full recipes from scratch
Creative writing
Video editing
Photo editing
Programming and coding
Software and game development
Web development
Building custom PCs

So creative is more for the creating part of the season.

However, the fact the the partnership between FIRST and Twitch seems to be growing (since they are hosting the kickoff broadcast and had the Championship live stream hosted for 2016-and wasn even put on the front page) makes me hopeful they will either clarify under what section competitions can be streamed in or create an additional one that fits them.

At the same time I know the New England FIRST has two accounts and has been streaming their competitions on Twitch for at least 2 years which is why I made the picking and choosing comment. Now that they are opening up beyond just gaming(again) I think they will definitely try to accommodate the FIRST community and our traffic.

Nuttyman54 06-01-2017 12:30

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboTigers1796 (Post 1625916)
[/code]And for creative, build site streams would definitely fit the requirements but I think competition streams wouldn't.
https://help.twitch.tv/customer/port...1-creative-faq
Code:

Electronic and robotic projects
Cooking and baking full recipes from scratch
Creative writing
Video editing
Photo editing
Programming and coding
Software and game development
Web development
Building custom PCs

So creative is more for the creating part of the season.

However, the fact the the partnership between FIRST and Twitch seems to be growing (since they are hosting the kickoff broadcast and had the Championship live stream hosted for 2016-and wasn even put on the front page) makes me hopeful they will either clarify under what section competitions can be streamed in or create an additional one that fits them.

At the same time I know the New England FIRST has two accounts and has been streaming their competitions on Twitch for at least 2 years which is why I made the picking and choosing comment. Now that they are opening up beyond just gaming(again) I think they will definitely try to accommodate the FIRST community and our traffic.

RoboSports Network (formerly GameSense) has been working with Twitch over the past year to help find a home for FIRST on Twitch. The Creative team at Twitch is very excited about FIRST, as it falls broadly in the same arena as the "Maker Movement" (ie, MakerFaire, cool tech stuff and hobbyist). While the competitions don't necessarily have the same direct link to creating things like robot-building does, continuity is important and it's still all part of the same process. I can't officially speak for Twitch, but from our communications, they're intending for Twitch Creative to be our home in the Twitch Community.

nickmcski 06-01-2017 14:01

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Yesterday when I was in the chat I noticed there was a twitch staff member (fix) in the chat.
Quote:

[14:16] <fix> So excited PogChamp
[15:44] <nickmcski> wow a twitch staff member intrested in FRC?
[15:48] <nickmcski> I guess with FRC having so many members some would work at twitch. I just never expected to see a Twitch staff member in the chat 2 days before kickoff
[17:13] <fix> @Nickmcski Of course I love FRC!
[17:13] <fix> I'm an alum from Team 4 in Los Angeles
So worst case if the channel does get an automatic ban leading up to kickoff there will be at least one Twitch staff member in the chat.

ZacharyDiaz 06-01-2017 14:38

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickmcski (Post 1625965)
Yesterday when I was in the chat I noticed there was a twitch staff member (fix) in the chat.

So worst case if the channel does get an automatic ban leading up to kickoff there will be at least one Twitch staff member in the chat.

PogChamp -- it's me!

Hey everyone, Zach here from Twitch. Just to give y'all a quick history, I'm an alum from Team 4 down in Los Angeles (2005-2009), went to LSU for Political Science, and joined Twitch on the Partnerships team about 18 months ago.

Sorry for taking so long to jump into this thread as I've been working pretty diligently since the holidays to get the kickoff specifics orchestrated and just landed in New Hampshire myself.

It seems like there's a lot of concern over the categorization and moderation of robotics content on Twitch, so let me say emphatically that both the creative portion (design/fabrication/assembly) and the competition are welcome on Twitch! If you're familiar with the history of Twitch (and Justin.tv), you know that there's been quite an evolution of content guidelines for the site. This developed out of a need to work closely with the community, both on the product and content fronts.

After joining Twitch and working in gaming for about 6 months, we officially launched Twitch Creative which greatly expanded the content allowed on the site. Pretty soon after, I reached out to GameSense who did an absolutely fantastic job at producing a live show at the Championship in St. Louis. As many of you have pointed out -- IRL was the most recent expansion which has even further broadened the content guidelines.

Basically, this has been the first few steps in an effort to #makeitloud -- Twitch's foundation is communities and I truly believe that FIRST & Twitch make a great alliance. As both an alum of the FRC program but also an audience member of Twitch before being an employee, I want to do what I can to make a positive impact on the community. I am here to listen to any feedback (positive and negative!), new ideas, or even help with any engineering/product development. Any thoughts of a way to make TwitchPlaysSTEAMworks happen?

Really excited to see the kickoff stream and hope to see some MrDestructoid in the chat.

bobbysq 06-01-2017 14:52

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZacharyDiaz (Post 1625985)
Any thoughts of a way to make TwitchPlaysSTEAMworks happen?

If you had a program running on the Driver Station laptop that took in IRC inputs and emulated a joystick, you would be able to do it pretty well. You could also run an IRC client on the robot, set up the router to act as a bridge to a WiFi network connected to the internet, and run it as an autonomous program. (or bypass WPILib's safety entirely and put it in RobotInit if you wanted to get even less safe than this already will be) I would also recommend turning down the speed of the drivetrain so it doesn't get damaged by bumping into things.

You would need a fenced-in field to make it more safe, and you'll need an E-Stop button on hand. I assume you wouldn't have access to a FMS, so scoring would need to be done manually or by replicating the scoring system used by the game and hooking it up to an Arduino that sends serial to the streaming PC to update a scoreboard overlay on the stream if you wanted to.

Nuttyman54 06-01-2017 15:06

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZacharyDiaz (Post 1625985)
Any thoughts of a way to make TwitchPlaysSTEAMworks happen?

I don't know if a similar thing will exist in STEAMWorks, but I always thought it would have been cool in Stronghold for the "Audience selection" to have been a digital vote with an app, and could incorporate votes from the stream chat as well. If there's a way to influence the field this year, having some kind of chat integration, even if it was a just-for-fun match and not an official competition match would be nifty.

I don't think driving an old FRC robot via Twitch chat would be smart (high chance of breaking the robot or someone getting hurt) but it would be neat to make some purpose-built robots with kit chassis and stuff and do Twitch-plays to control that. Maybe the chat only controls the drivebase, but a human controller does the other robot functions?

Heck..we're gonna have 11 Robot in 3 Days teams that will have functional robots by next Tuesday. Let's drive those!

wjd13 07-01-2017 10:28

Re: Twitch Stream
 
WE MADE IT TO THE FRONT PAGE!!!!!

Eugene Fang 07-01-2017 10:30

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wjd13 (Post 1626391)
WE MADE IT TO THE FRONT PAGE!!!!!

"Got added to the front page," but yeah, close enough.

bobbysq 07-01-2017 10:38

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Chat is crazy... They need to add more mods

(I also got a 10 minute ban for warning people of the certain cad company's spoilers)

sergeydgr8 07-01-2017 10:39

Re: Twitch Stream
 
With all this talk about steam, is this the water game we've all been waiting for????

sergeydgr8 07-01-2017 10:42

Re: Twitch Stream
 
So we got steam and flying. Water game with drones?

Foster 07-01-2017 11:07

Re: Twitch Stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbysq (Post 1626394)
Chat is crazy... They need to add more mods

(I also got a 10 minute ban for warning people of the certain cad company's spoilers)

And why did you feel the need to warn people about the spoilers? The correct move would to have been kept quiet on your own for 10 minutes. :mad:

I want to say thanks FIRST and Twitch for doing the captioned stream. I wasn't in a position to listen, but was able to read/watch. +1 for this, do it next year too!


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