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-   -   1836's Steamworks Calculator! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153112)

jaredhk 08-01-2017 12:59

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b.arci (Post 1627151)
A RP is not awarded for starting all 4 ROTORS (even if the total between AUTO and TELEOP were 4).

My understanding is that it does not matter when all four are turned. The rules say:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 4-1 (p 42)
If all four (4) ROTORS turning by T=0, 100 Points (Playoff Only) & 1 RP (Quals Only)

When rules are stating that the accumulation needs to happen in either auto or teleop, it says "...by period's T=0."

Thoughts?

scca229 08-01-2017 15:42

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
This got longer as I was typing it and realizing that I was finding more as I went. To make a "short story, long" as my wife likes to tell me.


The counting of the fuel for Match points need to be corrected to be additive between the all types (Auto High/Low, TeleOp High/Low) and not separate scoring lines.

Examples directly from 4.3 Scoring in the Manual (beginning with TeleOp to remove Auto issues and using 1/9ths for clarity):

12 in Low, 5 in High = 3 kPa, 3 Match Points
12/9 + 5/3 = 3
1 3/9 + 1 6/9 = 3

14 in low, 5 in High = 3 2/9 kPa, 3 Match Points
14/9 + 5/3 = 3 2/9
1 5/9 + 1 6/9 = 3 2/9

The calculator is showing both examples as 2 Match Points because it is treating each goal as a separate scoring line when the manual says that they are added together via examples. You don't just lop off the remainder in each goal before adding them together. At most, you would be off by 1 Match Point in the TeleOp part of the calculator, but see 2016 Einstein for how important a single point can be. The additive error doesn't end there though and can add another point of error when Auto is included.

The example given in the Scoring rule is 17 Low in Auto gives 5 2/3 kPa. An additional 3 Low in TeleOp will add 3/9 (1/3) to that giving 6 kPa. The calculator is not adding them together that way resulting in only the 5 still (it takes adding 7 to TeleOp low to make it add another point).

The kPa column should be showing the value in 1/9ths for TeleOp, 1/3rds for Auto to correctly show what the running total is without rounding. The Match Points column should probably not include the fuel as without having all 4 pieces of information together and calculated the total can be off by up to 2 points if the remainders add up to over 2 additional kPa:

Auto Low - 2 fuel - 2/3 kPa
TeleOp High - 2 fuel - 2/3 kPa
TeleOp Low - 8 fuel - 8/9 kPa
Total is 2 2/9 kPa or 2 Match Points. When put in the calculator this way, it shows 1 Match point and that is on the Low TeleOp line for some reason.



TLDR; The Match Points for the goals should not be separate lines but total for all with their respective weights based on goal and when scored. Calculate:
(Auto Low/3) + (Auto High) + (TeleOp Low/9) + (TeleOp High/3) for kPa (1RP if >40) and then round down to whole number for Match Points from fuel.


I can't download the Excel version to look at the formulas being used at the moment (errors out for me) but the above should help to make them act like the Scoring section describes in the manual per my using Excel to make sure I was seeing what the manual was saying. I didn't post screenshots as all you need to do is enter the manual's examples to duplicate what I was using.

jaredhk 08-01-2017 18:09

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Just to keep you in the loop - I'm working on this. Thanks for your input. I'll update soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scca229 (Post 1627288)
This got longer as I was typing it and realizing that I was finding more as I went. To make a "short story, long" as my wife likes to tell me.


The counting of the fuel for Match points need to be corrected to be additive between the all types (Auto High/Low, TeleOp High/Low) and not separate scoring lines.

Examples directly from 4.3 Scoring in the Manual (beginning with TeleOp to remove Auto issues and using 1/9ths for clarity):

12 in Low, 5 in High = 3 kPa, 3 Match Points
12/9 + 5/3 = 3
1 3/9 + 1 6/9 = 3

14 in low, 5 in High = 3 2/9 kPa, 3 Match Points
14/9 + 5/3 = 3 2/9
1 5/9 + 1 6/9 = 3 2/9

The calculator is showing both examples as 2 Match Points because it is treating each goal as a separate scoring line when the manual says that they are added together via examples. You don't just lop off the remainder in each goal before adding them together. At most, you would be off by 1 Match Point in the TeleOp part of the calculator, but see 2016 Einstein for how important a single point can be. The additive error doesn't end there though and can add another point of error when Auto is included.

The example given in the Scoring rule is 17 Low in Auto gives 5 2/3 kPa. An additional 3 Low in TeleOp will add 3/9 (1/3) to that giving 6 kPa. The calculator is not adding them together that way resulting in only the 5 still (it takes adding 7 to TeleOp low to make it add another point).

The kPa column should be showing the value in 1/9ths for TeleOp, 1/3rds for Auto to correctly show what the running total is without rounding. The Match Points column should probably not include the fuel as without having all 4 pieces of information together and calculated the total can be off by up to 2 points if the remainders add up to over 2 additional kPa:

Auto Low - 2 fuel - 2/3 kPa
TeleOp High - 2 fuel - 2/3 kPa
TeleOp Low - 8 fuel - 8/9 kPa
Total is 2 2/9 kPa or 2 Match Points. When put in the calculator this way, it shows 1 Match point and that is on the Low TeleOp line for some reason.



TLDR; The Match Points for the goals should not be separate lines but total for all with their respective weights based on goal and when scored. Calculate:
(Auto Low/3) + (Auto High) + (TeleOp Low/9) + (TeleOp High/3) for kPa (1RP if >40) and then round down to whole number for Match Points from fuel.


I can't download the Excel version to look at the formulas being used at the moment (errors out for me) but the above should help to make them act like the Scoring section describes in the manual per my using Excel to make sure I was seeing what the manual was saying. I didn't post screenshots as all you need to do is enter the manual's examples to duplicate what I was using.


AndyBare 08-01-2017 18:20

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Per 10.4.3 Qualification Ranking D. Each Team on an ALLIANCE that achieves at least 40 kPa receives one (1) Ranking
Point.
I've not looked at your calculator, but am just checking that you're clear you only need 40 kPa, not 41.

jaredhk 08-01-2017 18:34

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Nate,

Does this seem like it is matching what you have requested? I see what you are saying and think this is the solution but I may still be missing something.


Quote:

Originally Posted by scca229 (Post 1627288)
This got longer as I was typing it and realizing that I was finding more as I went. To make a "short story, long" as my wife likes to tell me.


The counting of the fuel for Match points need to be corrected to be additive between the all types (Auto High/Low, TeleOp High/Low) and not separate scoring lines.

Examples directly from 4.3 Scoring in the Manual (beginning with TeleOp to remove Auto issues and using 1/9ths for clarity):

12 in Low, 5 in High = 3 kPa, 3 Match Points
12/9 + 5/3 = 3
1 3/9 + 1 6/9 = 3

14 in low, 5 in High = 3 2/9 kPa, 3 Match Points
14/9 + 5/3 = 3 2/9
1 5/9 + 1 6/9 = 3 2/9

The calculator is showing both examples as 2 Match Points because it is treating each goal as a separate scoring line when the manual says that they are added together via examples. You don't just lop off the remainder in each goal before adding them together. At most, you would be off by 1 Match Point in the TeleOp part of the calculator, but see 2016 Einstein for how important a single point can be. The additive error doesn't end there though and can add another point of error when Auto is included.

The example given in the Scoring rule is 17 Low in Auto gives 5 2/3 kPa. An additional 3 Low in TeleOp will add 3/9 (1/3) to that giving 6 kPa. The calculator is not adding them together that way resulting in only the 5 still (it takes adding 7 to TeleOp low to make it add another point).

The kPa column should be showing the value in 1/9ths for TeleOp, 1/3rds for Auto to correctly show what the running total is without rounding. The Match Points column should probably not include the fuel as without having all 4 pieces of information together and calculated the total can be off by up to 2 points if the remainders add up to over 2 additional kPa:

Auto Low - 2 fuel - 2/3 kPa
TeleOp High - 2 fuel - 2/3 kPa
TeleOp Low - 8 fuel - 8/9 kPa
Total is 2 2/9 kPa or 2 Match Points. When put in the calculator this way, it shows 1 Match point and that is on the Low TeleOp line for some reason.



TLDR; The Match Points for the goals should not be separate lines but total for all with their respective weights based on goal and when scored. Calculate:
(Auto Low/3) + (Auto High) + (TeleOp Low/9) + (TeleOp High/3) for kPa (1RP if >40) and then round down to whole number for Match Points from fuel.


I can't download the Excel version to look at the formulas being used at the moment (errors out for me) but the above should help to make them act like the Scoring section describes in the manual per my using Excel to make sure I was seeing what the manual was saying. I didn't post screenshots as all you need to do is enter the manual's examples to duplicate what I was using.


jaredhk 08-01-2017 18:39

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyBare (Post 1627392)
I've not looked at your calculator, but am just checking that you're clear you only need 40 kPa, not 41.

Currently the calculator is looking for the value to be greater than 39 (aka greater than or equal to 40).

However, I'm personally a little unclear because section 4.3 says
Quote:

If ALLIANCE exceeds a threshold pressure of 40 kPa
and I read that "exceeds" as over 40.

Anyways...was waiting on a clarification but for now counts how you said.

blturner 08-01-2017 19:30

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by s-neff (Post 1626735)
Thanks Jared! This was really valuable to build off for our discussions today.

Citrusdad: It does, check the formula in the yellow box again (sums all kPa)

Here's an equation for converting retrieved gears directly into rotors, where GearCount is the integer number of gears *onboard* the airship

Code:

=IF(GearCount>0.5,1,0)+IF(GearCount>2.5,1,0)+IF(GearCount>6.5,1,0)+IF(GearCount>12.5,1,0)
EDIT2: Hi Jared, I disagree with your rotor warning count - a rotor that's started during auto for 60 points, is counted for an additional 40 points at the end of the game. Therefore the warning should only apply to the adjacent cell, not the sum of cells.
I've also added the RP for all 4 rotors spinning, and a task/time breakdown with contributions to score. Uploaded to CD_Media, feel free to use & publish
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3326

I read it as a rotor was good for 60 or 40 not 60 and 40. Also only 2 rotors can be started during auto because there are not enough gears to do 3.

s-neff 09-01-2017 03:37

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredhk (Post 1627405)
Nate,

Does this seem like it is matching what you have requested? I see what you are saying and think this is the solution but I may still be missing something.
<Snip>

I am not Nate, but I think it's a good solution and implemented a similar one in my fork, as well as updated with your recent improvements. Also improved my gears => rotors conversion method so that it can be updated for future rules updates.

Your 'fouls and foul points' function doesn't seem to be working in the current online version?

jaredhk 09-01-2017 10:23

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by s-neff (Post 1627687)
Your 'fouls and foul points' function doesn't seem to be working in the current online version?

Fixed. Sorry about that. When I added in the fouls functionality, I copied and pasted from Google Sheets and the version didn't save.

Also, all version now have new functionality as shown in the screenshot.

s-neff 09-01-2017 12:50

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared
<snip>

Sweet, thanks!
Quote:

Originally Posted by blturner (Post 1627442)
I read it as a rotor was good for 60 or 40 not 60 and 40.

I think you're wrong.
Quote:

Also only 2 rotors can be started during auto because there are not enough gears to do 3.
Accurate, H08 states no new game pieces until Teleop. Will fix warning to allow 2 rotors in auto.

I'm at work right now, I'll fix my version & add the updated fouls this evening.

scca229 09-01-2017 14:03

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredhk (Post 1627405)
Nate,

Does this seem like it is matching what you have requested? I see what you are saying and think this is the solution but I may still be missing something.

The final calc looks good now and I like the kPa column showing the exact numbers for the current pressure each is contributing.

I would think about not having entries in the Match Points column for each individual goal line, just due to those possibly not adding up correctly with the right combinations of fuel counts, and instead putting the total Boiler Match Points into the same line that you now have the 6 1/9 in the screenshot. I say that because in the screenshot, the TeleOp Low is showing 4 fuel and the correct 4/9 kPa, but also a Match Point, which doesn't visually make sense for that individual line. If they are all hidden and just done fully grouped up on the last line (where the 6 1/9 is), it would flow.

jaredhk 09-01-2017 22:29

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by s-neff (Post 1627923)
Accurate, H08 states no new game pieces until Teleop. Will fix warning to allow 2 rotors in auto.

Warning updated. Good catch!

jaredhk 09-01-2017 22:30

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
For those interested, check out our game test complete with pictures and more!

jwagner022 11-01-2017 12:13

Re: 1836's Steamworks Calculator!
 
This is such an amazing calculator. It has helped me understand the game so much more.


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