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-   -   Fuel Seems Undercosted (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153119)

Steven Carmain 07-01-2017 13:00

Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Does anyone else feel that Fuel is under costed in this game?

You can put in 120 high efficiency or 360 low efficiency Fuel to get the same amount of points as one gear in teleop. (I will concede that there is one QP for Fuel that would be valuable)

Plus, would the field be able to count 360 balls in 150 seconds (full match)?

ATannahill 07-01-2017 13:05

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carmain (Post 1626454)
Does anyone else feel that Fuel is under costed in this game?

You can put in 120 high efficiency or 360 low efficiency Fuel to get the same amount of points as one gear in teleop. (I will concede that there is one QP for Fuel that would be valuable)

Plus, would the field be able to count 360 balls in 150 seconds (full match)?

It is estimated that the field counters can handle 5 balls (fuel) per second (page 34). That would mean that 360 ball would take about 72 seconds to count.

DonRotolo 07-01-2017 13:14

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Don't ignore the 'pressure' associated with a ball, at 40 kPa you see a Ranking Point, win or lose.

beijing_strbow 07-01-2017 13:32

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Notice that the rotor has to be turning to get 40 points. So while that rate is true for the first gear, towards the end 120 fuel is equivalent in points to the 4 gears required for the last rotor.

ATannahill 07-01-2017 13:35

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beijing_strbow (Post 1626467)
Notice that the rotor has to be turning to get 40 points. So while that rate is true for the first gear, towards the end 120 fuel is equivalent in points to the 4 gears required for the last rotor.

The pilot is required to place 6 gears for the last rotor. They then have to do three rotations of the first gear, which might be harder than some people think.

Joe G. 07-01-2017 13:41

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Just because a task closely resembles the "main" task of old games, doesn't mean it's the "main" task of this one.

Also, fuel has an effectively infinite scoring potential, whereas gears are finite. True, the gears limit is relatively high and will take many alliances the full match or more to reach, but others will be able to finish them off with plenty of time to spare. In these matches, where both alliances do this, fuel will be the difference maker.

Additionally, there's two very key differences between fuel and most recent shooting tasks: the ball is tiny compared to the robot, and storage is unlimited. Unlike recent games, and especially unlike last year, where you had to make every shot count, pure rate of fire is arguably more important than actual accuracy, and the size difference opens up some interesting possible ways to make this happen.

Neovtan 07-01-2017 14:00

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Can anyone find a rule on how much fuel one robot can carry? Please link a rule where you found the answer

Nebster 07-01-2017 14:02

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neovtan (Post 1626471)
Can anyone find a rule on how much fuel one robot can carry? Please link a rule where you found the answer

There is no limit

Neovtan 07-01-2017 14:05

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebster (Post 1626472)
There is no limit

Where did you find that? I'm telling my team this but I cant find it in the rules

EricH 07-01-2017 14:08

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neovtan (Post 1626477)
Where did you find that? I'm telling my team this but I cant find it in the rules

The fact that you cannot find a limit in the rules is the indicator that the limit is not there.


Also, I believe this was mentioned specifically in the Kickoff stream, I want to say in Blair's segment.

Nebster 07-01-2017 14:11

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neovtan (Post 1626477)
Where did you find that? I'm telling my team this but I cant find it in the rules

It was said during the live webcast, you can watch a VOD of that, it isn't in the rules because it would only need to mention it if there was a limit. There's is a theoretical limit due to the volume constraints on the robot but other than that there is none.

Trey178 07-01-2017 14:25

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Since the boiler takes about 2 seconds to process fuel, the following questions are:

What is the boiler's capacity?

Are there separate counters for top and bottom?

mman1506 07-01-2017 14:29

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trey178 (Post 1626496)
Since the boiler takes about 2 seconds to process fuel, the following questions are:

What is the boiler's capacity?

Are there separate counters for top and bottom?

The fuel is recycled onto the field so capacity is essentially infinite.

I'd assume so since they are scored differently.

Jack3637 07-01-2017 14:31

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
I was wondering, can someone point to me the rule that states only one gear at a time in teleop? Also anyone up for discussing strategy? I'm stuck in a longggg car ride and wanna bounce some ideas.

GaryVoshol 07-01-2017 14:36

Re: Fuel Seems Undercosted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack3637 (Post 1626504)
I was wondering, can someone point to me the rule that states only one gear at a time in teleop? Also anyone up for discussing strategy? I'm stuck in a longggg car ride and wanna bounce some ideas.

A search for "gear" in the rules found this in about 10 seconds:

G27. One-GEAR limit. ROBOTS may not control more than one GEAR at a time.
Violation: FOUL. If strategic, TECH FOUL and YELLOW CARD.


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