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-   -   What's the best rope? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153125)

livia.13 07-01-2017 14:12

What's the best rope?
 
For the 2017 game, if you are going to use your own rope, what is the best kind to use and where would you get it?

josh milkey 07-01-2017 14:17

Re: What's the best rope?
 
It depends on your individual robot design, and how you plan to try to climb it.

icomella 07-01-2017 14:27

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Keep in mind that whatever rope you use, you can put knots in it to make it easier for your robot to scale.

MooreteP 07-01-2017 15:48

Re: What's the best rope?
 
But if you choose a specifically different type of rope, you will be limited to that specific position.

carpedav000 07-01-2017 15:52

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MooreteP (Post 1626555)
But if you choose a specifically different type of rope, you will be limited to that specific position.

Unless you're the only climber on the alliance or you cheesecake your partners. Then you could give your alliance partners your rope.

runneals 07-01-2017 15:54

Re: What's the best rope?
 
You would probably want a static rope. I was also potentially thinking of slackline.

Eric Scheuing 07-01-2017 15:55

Re: What's the best rope?
 
I am going to push to use the default rope. The knots are nice, but if something happens to your own rope(s), you risk losing out on climbing points if you're forced to use the field rope.

Moonsault 07-01-2017 16:15

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by icomella (Post 1626500)
Keep in mind that whatever rope you use, you can put knots in it to make it easier for your robot to scale.

Does this mean it can be looped also?:confused:

carpedav000 07-01-2017 16:25

Re: What's the best rope?
 
So according to the rules, velcro may be considered a rope as it's flexible and non metallic. Is this correct?

SpadeSeveren 07-01-2017 18:27

Re: What's the best rope?
 
It seems to my team that you can do any number of things to your rope, so long as it follows the few guidelines. This means you could climb very reliably. I personally think that you should supply your own rope, and have one or two backup ropes, in case one gets damaged. Using the supplied rope creates inconsistency and is overall not reliable, and you can't get the benefits of knots or special material.

My team has strongly considered using a certain climbing rope that has retroreflective fabrics weaved into it, to help with positioning, similar to the one shown here: http://searchgear.com/pmiretroreflectiverope.aspx

However, to answer your question, there is not a definite "best kind" of rope, as it depends on your team.

engunneer 07-01-2017 21:32

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SpadeSeveren (Post 1626663)
My team has strongly considered using a certain climbing rope that has retroreflective fabrics weaved into it, to help with positioning, similar to the one shown here: http://searchgear.com/pmiretroreflectiverope.aspx

As an inspector, that rope would not pass my inspection and would be brought to the LRI as it contains glass beads (which are not fibers or flexible, per I04).

Thayer McCollum 07-01-2017 22:18

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by runneals (Post 1626559)
You would probably want a static rope. I was also potentially thinking of slackline.

I agree that using a dynamic rope would be a bad idea. But I don't think a slackline would work because I have never seen a slackline that is 1 inch strap, most slacklines I have used are typically 2-3 inches. You could definitely use nylon (or other material) strap, but it probably would not be designed as a slackline.

Fusion_Clint 07-01-2017 22:20

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1626838)
As an inspector, that rope would not pass my inspection and would be brought to the LRI as it contains glass beads (which are not fibers or flexible, per I04).

And you would be wrong. Please read the whole rule. Assuming the linked rope would not extend up more than 12 inches from the point it is held is should be deemed legal. Glass is certainly non-metallic, and "fiber" can really mean anything.


IO4
D. consist entirely of flexible, non-metallic fibers twisted, tied, woven, or braided together except for the last 4 in. (~10 cm) of each end which may be whipped, fused, covered in heat shrink or tape, or dipped in a coating material to prevent fraying.

Blue note "Flexible means that if the ROPE is held at any point, it should not extend more than 12” above the point where it is held. ROPES are meant to be pulled, not pushed."

engunneer 07-01-2017 23:03

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint (Post 1626869)
And you would be wrong. Please read the whole rule.

you'd be hard pressed to argue that glass beads are "flexible, non-metallic fibers". entirely means entirely. Sure, the linked rope likely meets the definition given for flexible, but the rule describes more properties of the rope than that. It would be legal IMO to have a rope made of glass fibers, as long as it also meets every other rule, such as safety rules.

also, it is never wrong for an inspector to bring a questionable item to the LRI for a ruling.

Lastly, I assure you that i have indeed read the rule multiple times. I have a few years of experience inspecting bots, and over a dozen years reading FRC rulebooks.

Fusion_Clint 07-01-2017 23:09

Re: What's the best rope?
 
The blue note explicitly tells you what flexible means in this context. You can be that guy if you need to be.

chandrew 07-01-2017 23:11

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carpedav000 (Post 1626581)
So according to the rules, velcro may be considered a rope as it's flexible and non metallic. Is this correct?

By technicality you are correct, however this is something I believe will be quickly cleared up in the first rule update.

engunneer 07-01-2017 23:24

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint (Post 1626899)
The blue note explicitly tells you what flexible means in this context. You can be that guy if you need to be.

yes, but the rule has other restrictions beyond "flexible". I would be shocked if this rope is not submitted as a Q&A question. that will give you a definitive answer. Until such an answer exists, it is Schrodinger's Glass Bead Rope.

please re-read your posts - who is being "That guy"? The one saying that he would check with an event official that has the power to make this ruling, or the one categorically stating someone else on the internet is wrong while having no official ruling to back it up?

GeeTwo 07-01-2017 23:32

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carpedav000 (Post 1626581)
So according to the rules, velcro may be considered a rope as it's flexible and non metallic. Is this correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2017 game manual, in at least three places
A ROPE is a strong, thick string composed of twisted or braided strands of manila, hemp, flax, or the like, secured to the AIRSHIP, and used to secure ROBOTS for flight at the end of the MATCH.

Velcro is not composed of twisted or braided strands, unless you consider individual polymer molecules strands and are looking at it under a really good microscope. Feel free to ask on Q&A, but this seems like a pretty solid no to me.

Fusion_Clint 07-01-2017 23:35

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1626914)
yes, but the rule has other restrictions beyond "flexible". I would be shocked if this rope is not submitted as a Q&A question. that will give you a definitive answer. Until such an answer exists, it is Schrodinger's Glass Bead Rope.

Your initial post on this subject disqualified the rope because a glass bead isn't flexible (even though glass is a liquid?) Blue note completely conflits with your definition of flexible.

A fiber is really just a small piece of anything. see webster below.


Definition of fiber
1
: a thread or a structure or object resembling a thread: as
a (1) : a slender root (as of a grass) (2) : an elongated tapering thick-walled plant cell void at maturity that imparts elasticity, flexibility, and tensile strength
b (1) : a strand of nerve tissue : axon, dendrite (2) : one of the filaments composing most of the intercellular matrix of connective tissue (3) : one of the elongated contractile cells of muscle tissue
c : a slender and greatly elongated natural or synthetic filament (as of wool, cotton, asbestos, gold, glass, or rayon) typically capable of being spun into yarn
d : mostly indigestible material in food that stimulates the intestine to peristalsis —called also bulk, roughage

So what exactly is your reason for saying this isn't legal?

The Ginger 07-01-2017 23:38

Re: What's the best rope?
 
personally, I believe that if you want a rope off the shelf that is static, gripy, and strong, without any modification, then I would say you should get a natural fiber rope

engunneer 07-01-2017 23:57

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint (Post 1626924)
You initial post on this subject disqualified the rope because a glass bead isn't flexible (even though glass is a liquid?) Blue note completely conflits with you definition of flexible.

Let's review the tape:
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1626838)
As an inspector, that rope would not pass my inspection and would be brought to the LRI as it contains glass beads (which are not fibers or flexible, per I04).

I was not saying the rope is not flexible. I was saying the glass beads that are a component of the rope are not themselves flexible, and they also not fibers. The rule (not the blue box) is pretty explicit. "consist entirely of flexible, non-metallic fibers" seems pretty clear to me. If a flexible rope contains materials that are not flexible OR are metallic OR are not fibers, then the rope by definition does not "consist entirely of flexible, non-metallic fibers"

On a side note, glass is not a liquid. (Reference)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint (Post 1626924)
A fiber is really just a small piece of anything. see webster below.


Definition of fiber
1
: a thread or a structure or object resembling a thread: as
a (1) : a slender root (as of a grass) (2) : an elongated tapering thick-walled plant cell void at maturity that imparts elasticity, flexibility, and tensile strength
b (1) : a strand of nerve tissue : axon, dendrite (2) : one of the filaments composing most of the intercellular matrix of connective tissue (3) : one of the elongated contractile cells of muscle tissue
c : a slender and greatly elongated natural or synthetic filament (as of wool, cotton, asbestos, gold, glass, or rayon) typically capable of being spun into yarn
d : mostly indigestible material in food that stimulates the intestine to peristalsis —called also bulk, roughage

So what exactly is your reason for saying this isn't legal?

does a small round glass bead resemble a thread? I would say no. That already disqualifies your definition at definition 1 before you even got to 1(c). in any case, 1(c) calls for a "slender and greatly elongated" filament, which a small glass bead also does not resemble. Therefore, my reason for suspecting that it is not legal is based on the very definition of a fiber that you provided.

Lastly, at no point did I say definitively that it is illegal, only that I would question it as an inspector and get a second opinion from my boss at the event, who is the LRI. If the event LRI is unsure, he or she can take it up to the CRI, who is on call to all LRIs during an event, or to FRC HQ. that is the process.

Fusion_Clint 08-01-2017 00:08

Re: What's the best rope?
 
I reckon we will have to agree to disagree.

The rule clearly intends the rope be flexible to less than 12 inches vertical from the point it is held.

They will have to give exact tolerances for a fiber and it be measured with an optical/laser comparator to fit your definition. BTW where does it say the bead is round?

Lil' Lavery 08-01-2017 00:14

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1626919)
Velcro is not composed of twisted or braided strands, unless you consider individual polymer molecules strands and are looking at it under a really good microscope. Feel free to ask on Q&A, but this seems like a pretty solid no to me.


engunneer 08-01-2017 01:12

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint (Post 1626961)
The rule clearly intends the rope be flexible to less than 12 inches vertical from the point it is held.

I don't dispute that, however my issue is not with the rope itself being flexible. I'm sure this one is. My issue is that it must also be composed entirely of flexible fibers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint (Post 1626961)
They will have to give exact tolerances for a fiber and it be measured with an optical/laser comparator to fit your definition. BTW where does it say the bead is round?

I don't believe they will need a laser or even a specification to determine that a small glass bead is not a "slender and greatly elongated natural or synthetic filament" based on the definition that you provided. The linked rope states "50,000 minute glass beads to the square inch". I am indeed assuming that means a sphere, but even if they are a diamond or a heart or a cylinder, they are not going to be "slender and greatly elongated", nor "filaments".

I don't want to have a team go buy this rope (since talking about it, they have gone from 201 to 171 feet in stock, so i suspect three teams bought 10 feet each!), develop a system that relies on it, and then have it non-functional because of an inspection issue. All inspectors have the goal of making sure everyone gets on the field and is playing by the rules.

Please let us know when Q&A answers your question about this material.

That being said, and after typing up a long reply with my reasoning (small glass beads are not flexible filaments), I went and found the manufacturer's website for this product: http://shop.pmirope.com/12-5mm-retro...s-rr125yg030ev

Reading that, they don't talk about glass beads at all. they talk about "Retro reflective filaments" which are not glass beads. as a result, I think this rope is probably legal now.

Am I willing to admit that my answer changed because of new evidence? yes.
Am I willing to admit I was wrong? Yes and no. Yes, because the final material looks fine, now that there is more information, but No because given the originally linked page as the only documentation of the material, I don't think the material met the letter of the rule.

I suspect we still disagree as to why the material is legal, but i think we both now agree that it probably is.

carpedav000 08-01-2017 09:41

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1626919)
Velcro is not composed of twisted or braided strands, unless you consider individual polymer molecules strands and are looking at it under a really good microscope. Feel free to ask on Q&A, but this seems like a pretty solid no to me.

It is the instant you braid about three strands of it ;)

Koko Ed 08-01-2017 10:18

Re: What's the best rope?
 
For tha sake of a smooth running event I really hope people just stick with the field rope.

cpapplefamily 08-01-2017 10:39

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Does I04 and figure 9-1 really depict that a strap is a rope. Seem to eliminate difficulty and challenge of climbing a round gym rope. I admit I need more time to read and read again. At first impression I suspected the rope rule was going to be to have rope as similar to the 3 strand twisted rope depicted in the release videos.

Interpretation would be a 1/4 rope would be ok or 1" strap. The challenge is to engage the line and then is simply becomes a cable winch.

engunneer 08-01-2017 10:44

Re: What's the best rope?
 
yes, the manual shows a strap as a legal possible rope, and even shows examples of ropes with knots and loops.

I honestly think they suggested it to reduce the Q&A on the topic about whether ropes need to be round in cross section (they do not).

grabbing and climbing any dangling flexible object seems tricky. I like the way they designed this.

Kevin Sevcik 08-01-2017 10:50

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Koko Ed (Post 1627117)
For tha sake of a smooth running event I really hope people just stick with the field rope.

Yeah, but if I climb my own rope, I can just pull the rope and robot off the field together and don't have to fiddle with whatever system for untangling the robot without power. Teams bringing their own ropes can't be that much more annoying than the standards, can it?

engunneer 08-01-2017 10:56

Re: What's the best rope?
 
I like the idea of off-field rope removal, but i think you'll have a hard time getting the rope off the davit if the robot is actively against the touchpad and the section of rope between the robot and the davit is under tension.

cpapplefamily 08-01-2017 11:07

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1627129)
yes, the manual shows a strap as a legal possible rope, and even shows examples of ropes with knots and loops.

I honestly think they suggested it to reduce the Q&A on the topic about whether ropes need to be round in cross section (they do not).

grabbing and climbing any dangling flexible object seems tricky. I like the way they designed this.

I'm surprised. Now with this discovery a team can make a drum winch. Original presentation made us feel we are climbing more like a human would. As you climb you pass the rope through not coil it up.

Yes grabbing the line could still be tricky

ToddF 08-01-2017 11:08

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1627136)
you'll have a hard time getting the rope off the davit if the robot is actively against the touchpad and the section of rope between the robot and the davit is under tension.

Design your winch so it unreels (slowly) when the match is over.

Levi Madden 08-01-2017 11:12

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carpedav000 (Post 1626581)
So according to the rules, velcro may be considered a rope as it's flexible and non metallic. Is this correct?

Just remember that G15-C states you can not attach to the field using hook and loop (AKA velcro). When you add your own rope, it becomes part of the field, therefor, you could use velcro as a rope, but you can not attach to it.

icomella 08-01-2017 11:31

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Yes, but the loops can only be 10" in diameter.

Maxwellfire 08-01-2017 11:53

Re: What's the best rope?
 
I was thinking about something like this for our team. There's no minimum diameter listed, and I think that coiling a smaller rope would be easier. (Wrapping the field rope around a pulley seemed impossible). The only question is whether you can tie a large enough knot in the end to satisfy the > 1" requirement at the top.

engunneer 08-01-2017 12:35

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxwellfire (Post 1627160)
I was thinking about something like this for our team. There's no minimum diameter listed, and I think that coiling a smaller rope would be easier. (Wrapping the field rope around a pulley seemed impossible). The only question is whether you can tie a large enough knot in the end to satisfy the > 1" requirement at the top.

getting a 1" know is just a matter of a bigger more complicated knot (I suggest a monkey fist in the extreme case).

I'm not sure i would trust a robot to just a 325 lb tensile strength. a robot will be a pretty dynamic load, and the rating goes down quickly if there is any damage. Test test test!

Riri700 08-01-2017 12:53

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonsault (Post 1626573)
Does this mean it can be looped also?:confused:

The rule book states that you can use a loop. But it cant be rigid? it needs to be loose. So if pulled on it tightens. And it cannot be any larger than 10" in diameter.

This can be found on page 100 for specifics.

COL Woodchuck 08-01-2017 13:14

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Just remember that G15-C states you can not attach to the field using hook and loop (AKA velcro). When you add your own rope, it becomes part of the field, therefor, you could use velcro as a rope, but you can not attach to it.
I believe the rules in G15 make an exception on the rope so a velcro rope of "loop" and a winch drum with "hooks" would be allowed.

From G15:
Items A-G exclude ROPES installed on an ALLIANCE’S AIRSHIP.
A. Grabbing
B. Grasping
C. Attaching to (including the use of hook-and-loop tape against the FIELD carpet)
D. Grappling
E. Hanging
F. Deforming
G. Becoming entangled

carpedav000 08-01-2017 13:59

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Levi Madden (Post 1627143)
Just remember that G15-C states you can not attach to the field using hook and loop (AKA velcro). When you add your own rope, it becomes part of the field, therefor, you could use velcro as a rope, but you can not attach to it.

I believe this only applies if you use the velcro to strategically hold the rope in place by attatching it to the carpet.

Kevin Sevcik 08-01-2017 13:59

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Riri700 (Post 1627187)
The rule book states that you can use a loop. But it cant be rigid? it needs to be loose. So if pulled on it tightens. And it cannot be any larger than 10" in diameter.

This can be found on page 100 for specifics.

The field drawing doesn't show anything nice about the 90 degree turn the rope makes in the davit. It's shown as a square tube butted against sheet steel bent into a channel, with some weld. I wouldn't expect it to be sharp, but it's not going to be nicely rounded either. And a smaller rope is much more likely to swing and scrape across the edge than a larger one.

saintblaze4639 08-01-2017 19:01

Re: What's the best rope?
 
how about velcro, as according to the Ri3d 1.0 video?

Steph342 08-01-2017 19:04

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Is there anything preventing you from using a nylon strap and a drum with barb wire to suck in the rope and winch yourself up?

AndyBare 08-01-2017 19:23

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Amsteel blue is another really good option that I've worked with in the past. Very strong, and super easy to work with, and manipulate.
Check out specs: http://www.samsonrope.com/Pages/Prod...?ProductID=872
And a tutorial on fixing an eye in your rope: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q22wgYZL9f0

Kevin Sevcik 08-01-2017 22:49

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steph342 (Post 1627423)
Is there anything preventing you from using a nylon strap and a drum with barb wire to suck in the rope and winch yourself up?

Offhand, I'd say the inspectors that will take one look at your drum of barb wire, facepalm, and start patiently explaining the safety rules.

cpapplefamily 08-01-2017 23:46

Re: What's the best rope?
 
There is going to be a long Q and A on this one stand by. So many different ropes and straps. I'm supersized they only gave one example and did not spec minim diameters of weights.

andrewytiger 09-01-2017 00:47

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1626838)
As an inspector, that rope would not pass my inspection and would be brought to the LRI as it contains glass beads (which are not fibers or flexible, per I04).

As an inspector, do you believe that velcro would be allowed?

frcguy 09-01-2017 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steph342 (Post 1627423)
Is there anything preventing you from using a nylon strap and a drum with barb wire to suck in the rope and winch yourself up?


Just why...

Cothron Theiss 09-01-2017 01:31

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by frcguy (Post 1627635)
Just why...

Because who needs skin on their hands?

engunneer 09-01-2017 07:03

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewytiger (Post 1627633)
As an inspector, do you believe that velcro would be allowed?

My team asked me that too. I need to look more closely at the construction of the loop half. I think I need the hook half is likely to be a no (75% confidence) and the loop half could be a yes, but possibly only certain brands if all the backing is woven. I'm 50/50 on that until I can look at it closely or the gdc rules.

SpadeSeveren 12-01-2017 11:24

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddF (Post 1627142)
Design your winch so it unreels (slowly) when the match is over.

Or you could just take the rope off of the airship, then remove the rope from the robot. I feel like that would be much easier.

GeeTwo 12-01-2017 11:29

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxwellfire (Post 1627160)
The only question is whether you can tie a large enough knot in the end to satisfy the > 1" requirement at the top.

Google "Monkeys Fist Knot". You can start with an overhand knot and add larger and larger monkey's fists around them.

Chief Hedgehog 12-01-2017 11:40

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steph342 (Post 1627423)
Is there anything preventing you from using a nylon strap and a drum with barb wire to suck in the rope and winch yourself up?

I like out of the box ideas and I am not trying to be mean, but...

The scary thing about Chief Delphi is that some of these ideas become a reality.

If that thing WAS allowed on the field, the other robots would find the nearest corner and attempt to wet themselves.

Eric Scheuing 12-01-2017 12:28

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewytiger (Post 1627633)
As an inspector, do you believe that velcro would be allowed?

There are at least 3 questions on the Q&A regarding velcro. Just keep watching for answers.

engunneer 12-01-2017 14:29

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Thanks to FRC1339 we have a final answer on glass beads.
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/51

I still think the linked rope does not actually contain glass beads after reading the manufacturer's website, but a theoretical rope containing glass beads is not legal.

mwmac 12-01-2017 15:53

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1630091)
Thanks to FRC1339 we have a final answer on glass beads.
https://frc-qa.firstinspires.org/qa/51

I still think the linked rope does not actually contain glass beads after reading the manufacturer's website, but a theoretical rope containing glass beads is not legal.

After speaking with representatives of Pigeon Mountain Industries, (manufacturer of the retro-reflective rescue rope), I believe neither the question that was asked nor the answer given really settle the issue. IMO, microscopic beads of glass contained entirely within an individual nylon fiber which is then woven into the rope sheath covering the rescue rope clearly does not render the nylon fiber any less a fiber nor inflexible. Just my two cents. Careful wording of questions in Q&A is paramount.

Chris is me 12-01-2017 16:03

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeTwo (Post 1626919)
Velcro is not composed of twisted or braided strands, unless you consider individual polymer molecules strands and are looking at it under a really good microscope. Feel free to ask on Q&A, but this seems like a pretty solid no to me.

You omitted the verbiage of the rule that makes Velcro legal from your definition, specifically "woven". Loop-side Velcro consists of very thin strands woven together, sometimes with a fabric backing that is also woven. Sometimes the backing and the Velcro loops are even interwoven! This means certain strips of Velcro clearly meet the rules as written. I suspect the rules will probably be changed to add a Velcro exception so that we don't all just have winches made of Velcro that can be designed in five minutes, but as of now it doesn't seem very ambiguous.

engunneer 12-01-2017 17:06

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mwmac (Post 1630128)
After speaking with representatives of Pigeon Mountain Industries, (manufacturer of the retro-reflective rescue rope), I believe neither the question that was asked nor the answer given really settle the issue. IMO, microscopic beads of glass contained entirely within an individual nylon fiber which is then woven into the rope sheath covering the rescue rope clearly does not render the nylon fiber any less a fiber nor inflexible. Just my two cents. Careful wording of questions in Q&A is paramount.

correct, the beads don't make the nylon less flexible or less fiber. however the beads themselves are neither flexible, nor fiber, and as such, disqualify the whole rope.

mwmac 12-01-2017 17:16

Re: What's the best rope?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by engunneer (Post 1630170)
correct, the beads don't make the nylon less flexible or less fiber. however the beads themselves are neither flexible, nor fiber, and as such, disqualify the whole rope.

Not wanting to lawyer this anymore but one question: is the dye used to color the nylon a fiber or flexible?


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