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-   -   New size/bumper rules that every team should know (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153134)

JR0405 07-01-2017 18:54

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
This rule also makes it so the square KOP chassis can not be legal if it is made to the dimensions in the instructions

Steven Carmain 07-01-2017 19:09

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
The rules do not say how much of the bumper has to touch the frame vertically, only how much horizontal gaps you can have. (I believe, I'm not a rules expert, but read through the rules twice. Think that was the same as last year.)

engunneer 07-01-2017 19:10

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carmain (Post 1626701)
The rules do not say how much of the bumper has to touch the frame vertically, only how much horizontal gaps you can have. (I believe, I'm not a rules expert, but read through the rules twice. Think that was the same as last year.)

yes, but it must be firmly supported. I would recommend ~1" of vertical contact at a minimum.

traxxasracr1 07-01-2017 19:38

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
I'm still a little unclear on the frame permiter. If you choose the 30x32x36 size, does that mean you need to account for the ~3.5" of bumper on each side, leaving you with a max frame size of 23x25?? That seems a bit ridiculous. Granted it's probably doable, but I can't imagine FIRST having that tight size constraints

Cal578 07-01-2017 19:55

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by traxxasracr1 (Post 1626730)
I'm still a little unclear on the frame permiter. If you choose the 30x32x36 size, does that mean you need to account for the ~3.5" of bumper on each side, leaving you with a max frame size of 23x25?? That seems a bit ridiculous. Granted it's probably doable, but I can't imagine FIRST having that tight size constraints

R03 is very clear that the bumpers are included in the volume limits, and R01 defines the frame perimeter as excluding the bumpers. So yes, you need to account for the bumpers, and the frame would be about 32x25" max for the tall volume, or about 29x33" for the short volume..

Csherm 07-01-2017 20:09

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
I think the fact that the square configuration of the KOP chassis is illegal needs to be emphasized. I imagine some teams will assume that all of the configurations would be legal becasuse it comes with the kit.

engunneer 07-01-2017 20:25

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Csherm (Post 1626765)
I think the fact that the square configuration of the KOP chassis is illegal needs to be emphasized. I imagine some teams will assume that all of the configurations would be legal becasuse it comes with the kit.

the KOP frame has always been bigger than legal, so the team can decide which way is front and so the team can decide where to cut. I'm far more worried (as an inspector) about teams not realizing the bumpers must be inside the size box.

Gearheads1 07-01-2017 21:47

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
Quote from engunneer:
the KOP frame has always been bigger than legal, so the team can decide which way is front and so the team can decide where to cut. I'm far more worried (as an inspector) about teams not realizing the bumpers must be inside the size box.


But people must also be careful that the bumpers are not at the edges of the volume if they need any manipulators to extend beyond them because you cannot exceed the total volume at any point in the game

R03. Maximum ROBOT size, including BUMPERS and all extensions, must be constrained to one of two volumes:
A. 36in.by40in.by24in.tall(~91cmby101cmby60cmtall).
B. 30in.by32in.by36in.tall(~76cmby81cmby91cmtall).
The ROBOT must remain constrained to the maximum inspected volume at all times during the MATCH (i.e. A ROBOT may not switch between volume A and volume B without being re- inspected).

Sorry I'm not better at quoting things properly, but this is a big change that bears discussion.

GeeTwo 07-01-2017 23:22

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carmain (Post 1626682)
New this year,the top of the bumpers is 7" this year (think bumpers end up 5.5-6.5" tall with fabric. My memory says last year the bumper zone was 5-12" off the ground.

Yes, last year's was the highest bumper zone since our rookie year (2012), and this year is the lowest since then. Fortunately, there are no scoring platforms or defenses or anything but flat carpet to drive over.

Munchskull 08-01-2017 00:30

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
A frame perimeter of 23" x 25" seems tiny! Any ideas of how to make the most of vertical space?

BryceKarlins 08-01-2017 00:52

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carmain (Post 1626682)
New this year,the top of the bumpers is 7" this year (think bumpers end up 5.5-6.5" tall with fabric. My memory says last year the bumper zone was 5-12" off the ground.

That was mostly because robots had to be built tall to get over obstacles. Bumper zone is a rule that changes a lot year to year.

DaveL 08-01-2017 01:58

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
When I first read the rule with the green background, it made no mention of bumpers.

However upon further searching I found this:

R03
Maximum ROBOT size, including BUMPERS and all extensions, must be constrained to one of two volumes: ...

I'm with Blake on this issue and think it needs to be explained by FIRST as its hard to believe they really want us to build small robots with a frame perimeter of 120 inches.

Dave

Chak 08-01-2017 03:40

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveL (Post 1627033)
I'm with Blake on this issue and think it needs to be explained by FIRST as its hard to believe they really want us to build small robots with a frame perimeter of 120 inches.

I thought the robots looked a little small in the reveal video...:(

traxxasracr1 08-01-2017 10:38

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
The wcp DS west coast gearbox is about 12" end of axle to end of motor. Two of those sitting exactly next to each other already puts you outside the the frame permiter and into your bumpers if you go with the tall configuration if you put the gearboxes on the long side. Idk, I think that rule is a little ridiculous. But if that's how it's intended to be, then everyone has the same rule and we can't say it's unfair, so we will work around it.

ToddF 08-01-2017 11:00

Re: New size/bumper rules that every team should know
 
Kind of makes sense that they released these for 2017, huh?

http://www.wcproducts.net/wcp-ds-flipped


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