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Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?
I've have been going through the CAD and I can't seem to find any of the internals of the boilers. Does anyone know roughly how many balls each goal can hold without overflow? Was this discussed at New Hampshire field?
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Re: Any idea for how many balls the boilers can hold?
Find the dimensions for the bin that holds the balls after they go through the boiler. That should give you a pretty good idea of how many balls you can insert without overflow.
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I suggest you check this video.
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The boiler automatically feeds into loading lanes. The balls are then recycled onto the field
The capacity should be practically infinite. |
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We tried to do this and came up with some rough numbers.
The Cylinder itself appears to be ~ 1.78 cubic feet, and the funnel is ~ 1.63. Assuming that the trapezoid below the cylinder is used for processing fuel, thats ~ 3.41 cubic feet total. The large clear bins used in the videos look like they hold approximately 50 balls, and are 4.24 cubic feet. Using this, the number of balls that could be held in the boiler stack is approximately 40. If you were shooting at a rate of 6 balls per second non-stop, the boiler stack would fill up in 40 seconds. So you need 240 balls going in non-stop. Obviously the voids in a rectangular container will be different than the voids in a cylindrical container, but it's close enough for me tonight. There are bigger fish to fry, like figuring out how to flood the boiler in the first place. |
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Here's a photo of the Boiler innards used to index the Fuel and pit the balls out the back.
Back of the boiler photo is in post 23 |
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what happens to fuel in the corners?
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I'm kind of surprised at the lack of information we have been given about the processing rate and total capacity for the high and low goals. The team versions of the models are a poor representation that have no ability for us to simulate either. Edit: I realize now that there are feet in the background. This has to be the low goal. So my follow up question is, do you have a picture of the innards for the high goal? Thanks! |
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But more to your point, the goals would likely overflow and fuel would fall out, leading to it not being scored. As for the OP, FIRST hasn't specified how many balls this would take anywhere I can find. |
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Undoubtedly this game has a ton of points of failure, and added complexity, but trust the volunteers. This game is going to be great. |
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Yeah, I still have not found anything that gives a suggestion on how many balls the lower boiler especially can hold before it overflows. Because it is possible to just dump a load into the lower boiler it appears to me that it might be unable to process the balls fast enough. I do not see it unreasonable to think that 100 balls could fit in a robot and all 100 of those be dumped in 3 seconds or less. By the time the robot pulls away there are still about 85 balls in that goal and I am not sure if it can actually hold that many before they start dumping out onto the floor. It would be nice to get a solid answer from FIRST as to how many balls can the goal hold? (assuming it is not processing them)
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Here's the back of the Boiler.
The top balls just roll out through a trough, while the lower balls are sucked out. Bottom innards photo is in post 15 |
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In the boiler field tour video the view into the low goal shows a plate even with the top of the cylinder that covers the corners. It looks like the plate isn't in this photo. |
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The field crew was up late the night before Kickoff assembling. P.S. I think the top balls are handled with an indexer identical to the bottom indexer. You can see the base of the top indexer matches the base of the bottom indexer if you zoom in on that photo of the back. |
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I totally missed this, where in the manual is it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Round 2 of my estimations for the high efficiency boiler goal.
Here is a picture of the cylinder and cone stack pulled directly from the Solidworks field drawing. ![]() I would guess that there is some sort of indexer at the top similar to the bottom feeder, so lets assume that only the cylinder and the cone can hold excess fuel, and the of the innards are used to organize and count fuel. Boiler Stack Cylinder Radius: 7.5" Height: 30" Volume: 5,301 cubic inches Boiler Stack Truncated cone Height: 9" Upper radius: 10.875" Lower radius: 7.5" Volume: 2,413.5 cubic inches Total Volume: 7714.5 cubic inches Fuel volume: 65.45 cubic inches Random close pack of a sphere: ~64% Total capacity of boiler stack: 75.4 fuel. The boiler processes fuel in the high efficiency goal at a rate of ~ 5 fuel per second. Which means it would take ~15 seconds to process it all. Firing 8 fuel a second (A feat I see very few teams accomplishing), a robot would need 25 seconds to fill the high efficiency boiler, firing a total of 200 fuel with 100% accuracy. The max volume of a robot (34,560 cube in.) would hold 338 fuel, which obviously is not feasible. 200 fuel packed randomly would fill ~ 20,450 cubic inches. This would leave ~ 40% of the total robot volume available for drive train, and shooter. |
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I would not feel safe working on the basis of those drawings. they are obviously rough sketches and there is no way to tell how tall the real cylinder is and where the counter is placed along it's length. In the version I opened (STP files) there was also a hexagonal plate blocking the chute mid way... did you not have that? |
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The bigger question is how many balls can fit on a robot?
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It would be nice if FIRST would make a few more field videos showing from the field side and behind the wall what happens if they dump 50 ball into the high and low goal slots.
Since I know Q&A isn't the place to resolve this - does anyone know where such a request could be directed? Thanks! -matto- |
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I disagree - the q&a is a good official vector for this. too bad it only opens in a few days, after most teams would really like to have finalized their strategy. |
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Hmm, maybe if somebody wrote a program that could recognize and delete all of those questions before the GDC had to see them, maybe they'd be willing to open up the Q&A earlier. |
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P.34 says "The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will fall back on to the FIELD."
Does it means that in any point of time these are the max fuels the boiler can hold? |
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According to one of our coaches this was in the first update:
The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will fall back on to the FIELD. |
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Essentially dump, cram and shake in as many balls as you can into the unpowered boiler then count the balls. To me it seems unlikely that this process would yield such an even number of balls, so I expect this is a theoretical calculation instead of a physical measurement. My guess is that they rounded down slightly since they put these explicit values in the manual. -matto- |
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The capacity of the Low Efficiency GOAL is seventy (70) FUEL. The capacity of the High
Efficiency GOAL is one-hundred and fifty (150) FUEL. FUEL that exceeds GOAL capacities will fall back on to the FIELD. coming from team update 1. |
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